general observation
gregaustex
snippets and a bunch of funy stuff. BUT I laugh because I remember
you sometimes have characterized yourself as "centrist" or
"moderate". That's almost as funny as the rest of the content of this
site which is mainly a humorous series of jabs at the right along with
a handful of jokes that do niether. Embrace your ideology...and it is
not moderate centrist.
ironknee
that the Republican Party has moved so far to the right that I am more
of a Democrat now. I spell it all out on the "about" page of the
blog. Specifically, I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal,
and a pragmatist (what works is more important than ideology).
And, to be honest, you can call me whatever you want. I don't really
care. Political labels have become pretty meaningless.
--iron knee
Daniel Habtemariam
odds with the right recently. Bruce Bartlett, David Frum, David
Brooks, and Andrew Sullivan have done a ton of bashing of the
Republican Party in the past year. Yet, they were all Reagan-Bush
conservatives back in the heyday. Would anyone doubt that they're
political conservatives? (after a reading of what they've written, not
based on preconceived notions of what you party you think they belong
in) Would anyone doubt that Colin Powell, Christopher Buckley,
Lincoln Chaffee, William Weld, and Francis Fukuyama are
conservatives? Yet, they all publicly came out (pretty one-sidedly)
against the Republican leadership and endorsed Obama-Biden over McCain-
Palin. As political discourse evolves in a society, the nature of
self-identification with the left vs. the right changes as well. And
past heroes of the conservative movement would easily have been
considered to be leftists/moderates nowadays--Dwight Eisenhower and
Richard Nixon come to mind, specifically. Does that make them
Democrats, practically speaking? Or does that mean that society has
moved to right since they held office? Does it mean the right has
moved, or that they've moved? I'd recommend Googling, "The Overton
Window"--pretty interesting stuff.
And in this case, I think we're a mistake in looking at politics from
too much of a team perspective -- them vs. us, Democrat vs.
Republican. Because 1) you should poke/jab/criticise/question a
political party when it's doing something objectionable regardless of
your allegiance to it and 2) one-dimensional left vs. right measures
of ideology are simple and of limited use. Numerous attempts have
been made to to look at political identity on a 2D Cartesian
coordinate system (namely the Nolan Chart), but they all have
shortcomings. The point is that, in addition to what ironknee said,
political labels are mostly fine when you're talking about ideas, less
fine when you're talking events, but can be meaningless when you're
talking about people/politicians. Once you try characterizing
peoples' political ideologies, you'll find that moderates/centrists
look like liberals to conservatives, that those same people look like
conservatives to liberals, that there are a lot more moderates/
centrists around than you might think, that moderate/centrist is a
pretty useless label as it lumps together Dick Lugar and Joe Lieberman
(two people who rarely vote the same way)....and the whole thing
starts to resemble religion, where different people regard others
according to arbitrarily-defined (yet mostly subconscious) purity
tests for what their schema of the their party is vs. the other party.
Daniel Habtemariam
gregaustex
conservative and a social liberal, and a pragmatist" as well and it
has certainly been a long time since the GOP aligned with any facet of
that view beyond rhetoric. The democrats have never been fiscally
conservative but at least they are socially liberal and a bit more
pragmatic so in my mind they are "less wrong" at the moment, though
quite possibly far more than wrong enough.
I'm not calling you names, just pointing out that this site is
basically coming across as a place that does take a position, mocks
the right, and is not just picking on politicians and their silliness
in general. You have taken a side and the contents here reflect an
ideology, much like the Daily Show (love it BTW). That is not
anything to be ashamed about and is a privelege of ownership, but I
could swear when I first started visiting that was less the case.
> > not moderate centrist.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
ironknee
last line: "I could swear when I first started visiting that was less
the case". What was less the case?
By the way, I posted something today from Andrew Sullivan (as Daniel
points out, a conservative) that points out the hypocrisy of what
passes for GOP political discourse. So, if I agree with Reagan, does
that make me a conservative? Giuliani's statement pretty much equates
Reagan with the left, or even with socialists, but even he would never
call Reagan a socialist or even a liberal.
By the way, thanks Daniel for your post. I was actually on the road
when I replied to Greg, and didn't have time for more than a brief
response. Your response was better than mine was.
Back home now, and I'd like to add that what makes me a moderate is
this:
I think government is set up so that things can only be changed
slowly, and that is a good thing. (Wanting things to change slowly is
almost a textbook definition of conservatism). For example, while I
personally am in favor of same-sex marriage, I'm ok with it taking a
while to achieve.
I'm also ok with health care reform taking a while to implement. I'm
generally happy if we are moving in the right direction, even if the
change is slow. This means that it is ok if Obama continues some of
the policies of the Bush administration (even if I disagree with those
policies), but only as long as I think we are at least moving away
from those policies, albeit slowly.
Another name for moderate is "independent" and that means that you
think for yourself. I support something if it is a good idea, not
because it comes from the Democrats or Republicans, or from the Right
or the Left. Right now, the GOP has practically outlawed independent
thinking (or some might say, even thinking at all). I know this word
is loaded so I hate to use it, but inside I feel like the Republican
party is becoming completely ideological, and that their ideology is
Fascist, and that concerns me deeply.
--iron