CFL Official takes risking Canadian Citizens lives as a joke

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David Jeffrey Spetch

Sep 12, 2011, 5:21:15 PM9/12/11

CFL Official takes risking Canadian Citizens lives as a joke

After posting these two articles

1) Hamilton Ontario Risks it's Citizens Lives Over Entertainment

2) Revenue Explosion Canada / Lets build the first Roller Coaster Stadium(s)

Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:35 pm on the CFL Official web site I got an easy 700 views and 77 responses / posts over 2 days.

Here are the 8 responses of opposition to these articles. These are posters who tried to defend CFL needlessly putting citizens lives at risk in cities / residential areas to do it. This was the very best they came up with. If any of you can give a better opposition, please do feel free to brinf it on for I am ready to go.

1) by -Hammer Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:11 pm

"Are you kidding ME!

That old jalopy is the Avro Lancaster, specifically the Andrew Mynarski Memorial Lancaster, a man who won the Victoria Cross! It's the Dam Buster, it helped win World War II and is an integral part of our military heritage! It's part of our history and a welcome part of the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum. It's a completely airworthy plane, and if you had half a brain you'd realize that a large number of Aircraft from that era are more then airworthy and still used today such as the DHC-2 Beaver and the Douglas DC-3. Unreal. "

2) by PIGSEYE Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:18 pm

"Seems to me that same standard would have to apply to any noncommercial plane. There must be hundreds of private citizens flying their planes for pleasure/entertainment every day over every major city in the world, no? You want to ground all of them too?"

3) by MadJack Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:20 pm

"May as well ban automobiles too, when people drive cars, sometimes they get into accidents and people die."

(this next response, Hammer quotes Pigseyes response and adds)

4) by -Hammer Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:24 pm

"We're gonna have to also close both Toronto and Montreal's airports too, given that they are both surrounded by populated areas."

5) by wolverine29 Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:36 pm

"And then there's the beer, oh and don't forget all the heart clogging burgers and hot dogs, and soda pop with high fructose corn syrup which makes people obese. Keep up the good fight David!!! LOL"

6) by joedavtav Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:16 pm

"To the original poster from a commercial pilot and aerospace engineering grad:

Show me a tangible statistic that demonstrates air show flyovers of sports games is any riskier than walking your dog and I'll give credence to the idea that they shouldn't be done. In the absence of such information, I'll continue to enjoy the flyovers.

To your concern about 'designated airspace'... Would it surprise you to know that Ivor Wynne Stadium is in John C. Munro's control zone which extends a 7 nautical mile radius from said airport. So for all intents and purposes, IWS and the majority of the populated city of Hamilton is in the same 'airspace' as CYHM.

As for altitude restrictions over cities... here's an excerpt from the Canadian Aviation Regulations:

(link edited out)

Given these are high performance airplanes travelling a high speed only 1 nautical mile from Hamilton harbour, I'd bet they meet part (a) of this particular regulation by a long shot when flying over IWS.

Planes fly over cities all the time. Many airports have been developed around and people willingly buy homes and set up businesses along departure and arrival paths of aircraft. There is risk to everything. We can't stop flying merely because a plane could crash.

If we applied a no-fly rule over any semblance of cityscape or any population of people, we'd best stop all forms of urban transportation with a probability of catastrophic failure equal or greater than that of aircraft. So this means no transportation on highways, railways or shipping routes.. all such transportation must stop because some statistically improbable but ultimately inevitable event will happen...

See KHL plane crash... By this line of reasoning, all air transportation for sports teams must stop or we will lose another. Well you know what? Unfortunately we will lose another be it 10, 50 or 200 years from now. They might as well walk since buses are known to go over bridges and boats have foundered at sea. Ah wait... people have died falling down stairs, no stairs for sports teams either...

If you die in a plane crash or as a result of a plane falling on your head, it was your time. Tragic but it was less likely than dying in a car crash, being murdered or falling. We can learn from every disaster what unlikely chain of events lead to the disaster and continue to improve our safety but we will never have a 100% disaster-proof system of anything.

(link edited out)

Fireworks could blow into a crowd, concert stages collapse in freak windstorms and a plane could crash into a stadium during a sports event (though probably as likely from a random transport aircraft as a flyover air show plane).. Guess what? An asteroid will eventually strike the planet too!

We can't stop living because things that are improbable on a day-to-day basis inevitably do happen over long periods of time.."

7) by MulderS Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:22 pm

"When was the last time a plane doing a stadium fly over crashed?

 I live in Belleville, and the military TRAINS the pilots to fly, they have many hercs and jets going on ALL THE TIME. No one complains. When was the last time there was an issue? No one here can remember. Risk the life is citizens? Yeah Right Buddy. Quit blowing hot air. This complaint will never take off. They've been doing it for years in Hamilton.

 You'd think there's way more of a risk in Belleville than Hamilton. Military Base CFB Trenton right around the corner, as I said, There is not a single day the planes are not in action. And now flying high either, Probably at times lower than I've seen in Hamilton at games. And your UPSET at what? 9 days a year? Just Labour Day? "

8) by Dust Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:27 pm

"I wish they did more flyovers at the stadiums for games.

If you want your life devoid of entertainment build yourself a bomb shelter, I won't judge. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of better causes that you could be using your time to help promote. When I read the initial post I think of tin foil and a hat."

My responses to those comments:

1) Oh right in your bubble where planes never crash and Canadian citizens lives especially in heavy populated cities are worth less than entertaining a game at everyones expense Hammer.

You ask if I am serious / kidding ?!

2) PIGSEYE, well said and yeah, why should anyone get such pleasures flying private jets over residential areas when it risks the lives in the cities below?! That would be next on my list on this topic! You want to risk your own life flying, do it over non residential areas!

3) MadJack / when someone goes on to the street / on the road, corosses a road etc. you accept responsibility as a driver / pedestrian knowing that cars are going to be there. Me not being at a stadium having my life put a risk like I / all other citizens in surrounding residentials etc. don't have a choice in the matter just so some private enterprise can entertain a few fans is a completely different matter. If it were at the airport, people would know the risk they are taking in going and all city goers lives would not senselessly be put at risk.

4) Hammer, you are absolutely correct. When cities are planned, it helps to have someone that knows what they are doing when planning it rather than having to eventually reconstruct infrastructure and locations for different venues etc. However, at least these Airports are not putting people lives at risk just to show boat over residential areas surrounding the airport are they and if they are I'll be all over it. One other thing to consider, when an airport is built, and you buy a house near the airport, the price is cheaper because of the noise and risk you accept to live there. But yeah eventually for the safety of surrounding residents in any city, it is wise to place airports just outside of a city.

5) I didn't respond to wolverine directly since I already covered my point as revealed in responses 3 and 4. In other words it is peoples choice to consume beer, burgers, hot dogs, soda pop, corn syrup etc.

6) Joedavtav, OK because people walk their dogs and some people get attacked, that is just cause why you put Canadians lives at risk just to show boat over residential areas? Sounds like the old "don't throw the murderer in jail because there are plenty of murderers out there just going to murder anyway" speech in defence of needlessly putting citizens lives at risk. In the article I quite clearly point out that before this happens it is time for a change and yet you appear to be the type who would rather it happen before you are deprived of showboating over events. Are you willing to accept responsibility in the event of disaster when it does, if allowed to continue, happen?

well it is obviously time to change designated air space then Joe.

Joe, Altitude is not the issue.

Planes fly all the time sure, but they are not showboating over residential areas are they.

People are willing to buy property around airports because they are willing to take that risk to get their property cheaper. where I live is no where near the air port because I opt not to take that risk.

ships don't fly over cities, cars don't fly over cities, and if you want to go in the water or on the road, it is because you accept the risk.

even a crowd watching fireworks have the choice to be there knowing the risk.

7) MulderS I have already blown away your so called conflict on one or more occasions right here on this very thread. If you go back and read you will see that what I share with you now is verified. Are you willing to accept the responsibility, apologies to the families etc. when there is an accident and explain to everyone that it is because some private enterprise feels that it is more important to promote their franchise than it is to look out for the well being of the lives of the citizens in the city they host their event within? I suppose this is where you too cower away MulderS.

8) Dust, you wish they did more fly overs at games not being held in a residential areas because that would needlessly put lives at risk only to promote someones private franchise right Dust?

That was the very best the CFL official web sites opposition had to offer. As you can see for yourself I blew them all away.


 In and throughout these responses I was bombarded with a slew of personal attacks including that of the management of that very site on several occasions.77 posts in two days closing in on 800 views (was getting rather popular rather quickly) Including the management a few of them were claiming that the two articles beginning the thread we incoherent. I asked for one example of this. They place my name in an internet search engine, brought up an article from approximately ten years ago, put part of a paragraph in quotes and tried to use that as evidence proving that the two articles beginning this very thread were incoherent. I requested a second time for an example that the two articles beginning the thread we incoherent. They then give me a quote from one of my responses in the discussion we were engaging long after the subject articles were presented. Then management (jm02) tells me:

(CFL Official Management) by jm02 Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:36 pm

"There are far more errors in your "article" than MadJack pointed out"

 And yet out of all of their personal attacks not one of them shared even one example from either of the two articles that proves there so called claim of incoherence in any way shape or form. Yet they exemplified incoherence themselves in their own actions by claiming my articles were incoherent while providing other sources that were not even from these articles as evidence. As well 8 responses verified recognition of coherence to be able to respond directly towards the fundamentals of this issue.

 Sure I don't mind all of the personal attacks, I have gotten use to it over the years / I can take it. The only reason that I bring this up is because I had many of them attempting to gang up on me with personal attacks including the management, and again I don't mind.

 One of them who was part of this gang, was jm02 (management) who while harassing me with personal attacks, was telling me to refrain from personal attacks because they would have loved it if I had let them walk all over me like they tried so hard to do. It was OK for the management to turn a blind eye on multiple occasions when so many of them including the management gang up on one person with personal attacks, but when that one person managed to stay on top of the pile they delete the issue entirely and suspend me from the site thus avoiding facing the foundation of the entire issue. I have no intentions of going back there for I have better things to do than waste my time on a site with bias management.

 Now as you can see, some people tried to at least stick with the issue and tried to put up a fight defending private enterprise needlessly placing citizens lives at risk only to show boat an air show. Again I didn't choose to go to the show, so why is my / Canadian citizens lives being put at risk for a show we are not even attending just so some private enterprise can make money?

 It's about prevention of needless deaths because think about when something does go wrong and people die, how will this reflect upon the CFL / The Canadian Government / You?! Especially when it could have easily been prevented!

 In lieu of this, the CFL Officials obviously take the risk of citizens lives to promote their show as a big joke. They appear to just want to fluff off the issue until one day one / many of you die because of such an accident occurring then that's when I suppose they plan that they make changes or worse, come up with some excuse so that they can keep doing it. In other words it worth risking your life for them to make money just so that they can showboat an air show at their event hence they for now get away with it.


 I was nice in sharing this issue with the CFL directly on their official web site and offering my services for conjuring alternate solutions. I took the time to genuinely answer every serious response of relevance directed towards the issue. In the end no one could contradict what I shared for we had covered all prospectives they offered and in the end, people who choose to drink beer, go to an event, eat burgers, watch fireworks, buy a house, fly a plane, drive a car etc. choose to take the risk in doing such. I'm not going to a football game, so why is my life and every other citizens life around the stadium being put at risk just so that private enterprise can showboat an air show?!! All of you who want to see an air show, you do that and accept the risks in doing such and do it over a non residential area. Canadian citizens didn't choose to take that risk especially for your private enterprise needlessly putting our lives at risk.

 I get swarmed by attempts of sabotage by even Official site management (people attempting to make anything else the issue as well personal attacks) attempting to make a circus out of the issue / dumb it down.

 CFL on their Official site just exemplified that they take risking Canadian Citizens lives as a joke just so that they can show boat an air show over residential areas and I certainly hope Canadian MP's, MPP's, MLA's Ministers, Senate etc does not find that in the least bit amusing for the citzens of Canada and their families sake!

 Rest assured, about 1000 MPP's, MLA's, Ministers, Senate etc. will be getting this information today and over the next couple of days from me personally via e-mail as well many various web sites.

 F.Y.I. I saved each and every web page of posts on this very topic including all 77 responses (at the time I saved it) directly from the Official CFL Website before they so conveniently erased it which is how I was able to share with you the exact words these people used and exactly when they responded.

 Do we really have to wait for people to get killed before people get the picture thus stop residential area air craft show boating? On the out skirts of a city for example, if a plane were to crash chances are it will in a field, where as in a city it takes out a house / a building / a city block / gas station etc. and how many lives?


 This is your chance to use your common sense to save some lives Canada! Sad these players of the CFL teams work so hard for a franchise that risks the lives of Canadian citizens just to showboat a half time show when people primarily come to see them play. To bad they do not have representatives that take such issues as the lives of Canadian citizens needlessly being put at risk seriously. I'll never forget the CFL for that.


David Jeffrey Spetch

Ps. Be good, be strong!

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