Side By Side Obama/Trump UK Visits

[Navy]

LOL...I had forgotten this stuff....

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6046123541001/#sp=show-clips

[Irie]

Racist.

;-)

[Lobo]

Obama's toast timing was a little momentarily embarrassing. But compared to the cringeworthiness of Trump bringing along his entire extended family -- including his adult children with THEIR families -- to CRASH a state dinner between what was supposed to be two heads of state? And then allowing those children to use the occasion to push their personal business interests?

After which the president embarrassed the country involving himself in their politics, especially on Brexit and endorsing UK fascists.

And then shamed the US in Ireland by trying to push Trump Properties Inc business on another state meeting, along with threatening a hard won peace by pushing the idea of a Trump Wall between Ireland and Northern Ireland -- the LAST thing either side wants.

And THEN shamed and embarrassed the US AGAIN in Normandy, by using one of the most solemn occasions imaginable to attack a domestic political opponent and a US war hero for investigating his crimes and treasonous election dealings with Russia.

(A few things your TrumpTV guy forgot to mention).

[Navy]

I know you won't let your bias interfere with your opinions....

.................

[KCM7Alpha]

Cute emojis!  LMBO!!!!

[Navy]

[KCM7Alpha]

Where did you get them?

[Navy]

Off another board. Someone put together a little chache.

[herman]

Business as usual for the drumpf crime family.

[Lobo]

<<I know you won't let your bias interfere with your opinions...>>

Of course I'll let my biases (my worldview) "interfere" with my opinions. But I won't allow them to interfere with facts.

On Monday, June 10, 2019 at 8:02:24 AM UTC-4, Navy wrote:

[Navy]

Is that why you still can't believe the dems lost in 2016? 

I think you might have let your bias tell you that Trump had no chance...yet your facts didn't line up with the results ...did they?

[herman]

No one said "trump had no chance", navy.

Moreover, had we known then what we know now - that putin had been attacking our electoral system on behalf of trump,that  Republican polling information on key states had been given to the hostile country attacking our nation, that the trump campaign was refusing to inform the FBI of contacts with Russians, that the trump campaign welcomed the hostile foreign country's attack, among other things - we would have understood that the odds were surreptitiously stacked in trump's favor.

[plainolamerican]

No one said "trump had no chance", navy.

---

I thought it and said it. I had no idea about the depth of stupidity of Trump supporters.

[PirateLT]

or how shitty Hillary was as a candidate. She bears a great deal of the responsibility.

[herman]

That, too.  

It's hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact many - perhaps most - of them have experienced trump as POTUS yet will still vote to give him 4 more years.  

[herman]

No, neither Clinton nor the Democratic Party is responsible for the attacks by putin, Comey's indefensible late-October "we've had to reopen the investigation" crap, Sanders' months of lying and portraying himself as being "cheated", Sanders' cult of Clinton/DNC haters, the fact the EC failed to function as it was supposed to.....

No, Pirate, faulting Clinton and the Democrats isn't valid, just as it won't be valid next year.

[plainolamerican]

or how shitty Hillary was as a candidate. She bears a great deal of the responsibility.

---

you can't measure the stupidity of Trump supporters using Hilary's candidacy. They're just fucking stupid.

[PirateLT]

Clinton was a terrible candidate. She is culpable for that.

[PirateLT]

No doubt a good deal are unthinking morons.  If someone more appealing than Hillary ran he would never have won.

[herman]

That's your opinion.  But it has nothing to do with the fact the cards were already stacked against the Democratic nominee.

In no way are the Democrats responsible for the facts I've pointed out.  

Keep in mind as well that putin understood full well that Sanders was helping to elect trump - which is why putin told his hackers to harm Clinton as much as possible but leave Sanders alone.

[PirateLT]

Her negatives were almost as high as Trump's if you recall. 

[herman]

No, I do not recall that, pirate.

And, yet again, you're ignoring the facts that stacked the deck against the Democratic candidate.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 3:24:42 PM UTC-4, PirateLT wrote:

Her negatives were almost as high as Trump's if you recall. 

 

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 1:23:45 PM UTC-6, herman wrote:

That's your opinion.  But it has nothing to do with the fact the cards were already stacked against the Democratic nominee.

In no way are the Democrats responsible for the facts I've pointed out.  

Keep in mind as well that putin understood full well that Sanders was helping to elect trump - which is why putin told his hackers to harm Clinton as much as possible but leave Sanders alone.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 1:19:17 PM UTC-6, herman wrote:

[PirateLT]

Bullshit. The historic fact is that States Like PA for example went to the dems for decades. They lost the mid west.  Also, here is a reminder of the historic negatives.

ttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/20/the-remarkable-thing-about-donald-trump-and-hillary-clintons-incredible-negatives/?utm_term=.58d8483c469c

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 1:27:14 PM UTC-6, herman wrote:

No, I do not recall that, pirate.

And, yet again, you're ignoring the facts that stacked the deck against the Democratic candidate.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 3:24:42 PM UTC-4, PirateLT wrote:

Her negatives were almost as high as Trump's if you recall. 

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 1:23:45 PM UTC-6, herman wrote:

That's your opinion.  But it has nothing to do with the fact the cards were already stacked against the Democratic nominee.

In no way are the Democrats responsible for the facts I've pointed out.  

Keep in mind as well that putin understood full well that Sanders was helping to elect trump - which is why putin told his hackers to harm Clinton as much as possible but leave Sanders alone.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 3:20:27 PM UTC-4, PirateLT wrote:

Clinton was a terrible candidate. She is culpable for that.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 1:19:17 PM UTC-6, herman wrote:

No, neither Clinton nor the Democratic Party is responsible for the attacks by putin, Comey's indefensible late-October "we've had to reopen the investigation" crap, Sanders' months of lying and portraying himself as being "cheated", Sanders' cult of Clinton/DNC haters, the fact the EC failed to function as it was supposed to.....

No, Pirate, faulting Clinton and the Democrats isn't valid, just as it won't be valid next year.

[herman]

The historic fact is the trump campaign shared critical polling data with the RUSSIANS about key states, so the RUSSIANS could hack social media with tailor-made lies about Clinton and thus cause trump to win by extremely-narrow margins.

That you refuse to address the facts I've pointed out indicates you have no rebuttals.

You're acting like a trumprepublican, pirate:  refusing to face facts, insisting that your opinion is fact.

[PirateLT]

You are over estimating the impact. If she was more popular and actually put a focus and not for granted the 'blue wall' she might have won.

[herman]

No, I'm not.  YOU didn't read social media during the campaign.  I did.  I immersed myself in it for months.  It was frightening.

Those Russian attacks - aided by the republicans - spread lies and hatred, not only among independents and republicans but also among Sanders Democrats.  Sanders stirred shit up for months - anti-DNC and anti-Clinton - with his repeated whines and lies that he was being "cheated".

YOU did not see all that crap on social media.  YOU didn't see the resentment and outright hatred the Sanders cult and the RUSSIANS were stoking.

YOU are not acknowledging the important fact that putin realized how valuable Sanders was to the trump campaign.

YOU are not acknowledging the damage Comey's unprecedented and irresponsible late-October lie did.

YOu are not acknowledging the fact the trump campaign shared critical polling information with the russians.

[PirateLT]

You cannot quantify how that impact.  I never said Putin didn't try to interfere in the election.  But the FACT is she was historically unpopular well before Putin ever entered the picture (think 1990's).  She ran a horrible campaign and ignored Democrat strongholds.

If you want to blame it all on Russia and not a discontent out there, then expect to keep losing elections.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 1:40:20 PM UTC-6, herman wrote:

No, I'm not.  YOU didn't read social media during the campaign.  I did.  Those Russian attacks - aided by the republicans - spread lies and hatred, not only among independents and republicans but also among Sanders Democrats.  Sanders stirred shit up for months - anti-DNC and anti-Clinton - with his repeated whines and lies that he was being "cheated".

[herman]

Another very important and not-understood-at-the-time factor:

How much trump's appeals to bigotry, misogyny, and racism played right into the emotions of so many americans.  How much so-called americans wanted and want to take revenge ("Lock Her Up!") upon those they hate, upon those who are different from them, upon those who hold different beliefs....

The "best" candidate couldn't compete with that kind of appeal.

[PirateLT]

bull fucking shit.  That segment of the population is smaller than the overall voting population.   Biden could have beaten Trump in 2016. He would have kept the blue wall in tact.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 1:44:47 PM UTC-6, herman wrote:

Another very important and not-understood factor:

How much trump's appeals to bigotry, misogyny, and racism played right into the emotions of so many americans.

[herman]

No, it wasn't and it isn't.

You're turning a blind eye to the degree to which republicans have fostered resentment, fear, hatred etc over the last decades.

You're also ignoring yet again the other factors I've pointed out.

Bottom line:  for some reason, probably emotionally-based,  you are determined to convince yourself that it's not anyone's but Clinton's fault that trump is in the WH.

That your opinion is BS is clear.

[PirateLT]

You realize that it took I think maybe 4 counties in 3 states to flip and he would have lost.  But hey, you go with the Russians and people are racist. That should get you winning lots more elections.

I will have you note that not 4 years earlier Obama cleaned Romney's clock.

[herman]

You realize that it took I think maybe 4 counties in 3 states to flip and he would have lost.  But hey, you go with the Russians and people are racist. That should get you winning lots more elections.

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My point exactly, especially about that polling data the trump campaign gave to the Russians - that enabled the Russians to target certain groups on social media.

My point exactly, especially about the enormous damage Sanders and his cult did to the prospects of the Democratic candidate.

My point exactly, especially about the damage done by Comey's pro-trump intervention in late-October.\

You see how what you've pointed out here applies to the three facts I've pointed out?

Any of them could have been the tipping point, pirate.

Yet you are being a rumprepublican and refusing, over and over, to acknowledge that fact.  Instead, you're clinging to your need to blame Clinton and the Democrats.

[herman]

Thanks for pointing out that Romney was defeated.

Romney didn't run on the bigotry, racism, and hatred that trump so successfully appealed to.

Romney didn't have a hostile foreign government interceding on social media on his behalf.  Romney's campaign didn't help that attack by providing sensitive and targeted polling data to the hostile foreign government.

AND

Obama didn't have a Sanders and his cult whipping up resentment and hatred against the Democratic candidate.

[herman]

Obama didn't have a pro-Romney FBI Director make a late-October claim about a spurious "investigation" that had been opened up against Obama.

Obama didn't face an opponent who lied and lied and lied and lied and lied about Obama, about himself, and about all the glorious and impossible things he would do as President.

[PirateLT]

No, it was the people who feel displaced by the changing economy. They are pissed off. There is a segment in the Western Society that feel this why (see brexit).  Listen to that and address it.

[herman]

You're not up on the latest, pirate.

It was and is the hatred and bigotry and racism, along with a strong authoritarian streak, that pulled so many to trump.

Your simplistic insistence that Clinton and the Democrats are responsible for trump's presence in the WH has kept you from exploring the reasons so many Americans voted for him.

[herman]

Btw, anti-immigrant sentiment played a strong part in both pro-Brexit campaigning and also in voting.

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 5:24:07 PM UTC-4, PirateLT wrote:

[PirateLT]

They are a minority.  It is about the displaced, and their anger.  Are there racist, bigots?  Sure, but that is the the majority and it is cynical to think that.  Did you know that Biden right now is up in Texas?  He speaks to the pain driven at this point. 

[herman]

You don't know this, pirate.  You haven't been studying the reasons, because you're not a Democrat.  Thus, you're not interested in figuring out why it happened and how to get around it for 2020.

The economic factor was always supposition.  It's since been replaced, updated with a study that shows it's the Republicans' long-time appeals to the nastier emotions in people.  Trump is the logical outcome of all that.  Plus, he really, really put into words what Republicans had only been hinting at and insinuating.  Trump "normalized" all that anger, that resentment, that fear, that desire to punish, that religious and racial bigotry.....

[PirateLT]

Yes they are upset that they are losing jobs in part from immigrants.  Part is racism too I get that. But the big picture is you have an uneducated mass who have not kept up with the world economy and are addicted to opioids.  We have not re-trained/re-educated the displaced the last 25 years. Now they want to go back to 1979 and have themselves protected by trade wars, buy American only and such. It is why the farmers are willing to take it in the arse for the time being and still support them. They see this as war.  If you don't see this, you are missing the true core point.

[plainolamerican]

 you have an uneducated mass who have not kept up with the world economy and are addicted to opioids.  We have not re-trained/re-educated the displaced the last 25 years. Now they want to go back to 1979 and have themselves protected by trade wars, buy American only and such. It is why the farmers are willing to take it in the arse for the time being and still support them. They see this as war.  If you don't see this, you are missing the true core point.

---

yep ... a culture war between the religious and the sane and logical.

[herman]

If economic factors account for the majority of trump support, that support should be crumbling as we speak, given the fact trump has made no significant improvements in that area.

[PirateLT]

it goes beyond religion. It goes to survival and their pocket book.  In the end that is how most vote.

[herman]

I think that USED to be true.

But not for the last few elections.   Republicans have made it plain they're interested in giving tax breaks only to corporations and the already-rich.  They've made it very clear they want to take Obamacare away from Americans.  I know you don't like Medicare and Social Security, but many others do - and Republicans have made no secret of the fact they want to do away with both programs.

Were people truly and primarily motivated by their own financial concerns, we would not have seen so many Republican victories on the state and Federal levels these last years.

[PirateLT]

It's still true.  This is why the Dems have lost the blue wall, they don't get this.  When you feel displaced, on drugs and see others get rich, advance, it pisses you off.  People coming in this country to take jobs doesn't help either.  Unless the Democrats get that they will continue to lose.  I believe Biden gets it which is why his numbers are where they are. he is your best hope to displace the Orange Cheeto

It's not that I don't like those programs, they are simply going to bankrupt this country (Medicare in particular). 

[herman]

No, it's not, and I've shown you that it's not, pirate.

Voting one's pocketbook would have resulted in strings of Democratic victories at the state and Federal levels.  But it hasn't, and you know that. 

I know you don't like having your assumptions challenged - and god forbid that one of them should be shown to be outdated - but you can't say on the one hand that their own lousy financial conditions determine whom people vote for, and on the other hand simply ignore the fact that that hasn't been happening.  It's time for you to move on, if you really want to know why trumpism is so attractive to so many.

Keep in mind that retired people were the largest or among the largest group to vote for trump.  They're not worried about jobs.  They don't feel displaced.

They've got their pensions and SS and their Medicare.  

[herman]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-or-a-democrat-eastern-iowa-ponders-its-presidential-choice/2019/06/11/caa982fa-8b0b-11e9-b08e-cfd89bd36d4e_story.html?utm_term=.c326174ad728

...Sitting at a Starbucks in Muscatine where his fiancee works, Eric Kortemeyer tried on Friday morning to name as many of the 23 Democrats running for office as he could but could only come up with two: Biden, whom he wants to get to know outside of “Obama’s shadow,” and Warren, whom he doesn’t know if he can trust, as he believes that she lied about having Native American heritage.

With some prompting, the 40-year-old food delivery worker added Sanders, who he said has some good ideas but is generally too extreme to get elected, and O’Rourke, although Kortemeyer wondered how much longer the Texan’s campaign will last. He has also heard about Andrew Yang on Facebook and likes the entrepreneur’s call for a universal basic wage.

Kortemeyer considers himself a Democrat and voted for Obama twice. Ahead of the 2016 election, he planned to vote for Clinton and was excited by the idea of having a female president. But then, he said, he started learning more about the attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi and other criticisms of Clinton from people he met on Facebook who claimed to know the former secretary of state....

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Did social media postings change this American's mind about whom to vote for?  Yep.  He voted for trump.

Russia's anti-Clinton social media manipulation (lies) was pervasive - and persuasive.

Too many voters don't check to see that things presented on social media are accurate.  

Too many voters only want confirmation of their own prejudices/opinions.

[PirateLT]

SS and Medicare are more than half the budget (well over 2 trillion).  Medicare is by far the fastest growing.  You guys are so boring. No new solutions, just spend money on existing programs. Yawn..............that is not how real life works.

I know you are out of touch with how budgets and innovation works and it upsets you, but that's reality.  And it is why I think both parties are broken.

[herman]

This isn't an in-depth discussion about those two programs, pirate.

You know damn well that I mentioned them ONLY to show that you are wrong in your outdated belief that financial concerns were and are the primary determinants of how most people vote.

As I've pointed out, seniors voted in droves for trump.  Seniors who do not feel "displaced".  Who are not worried about their jobs.

That they voted for trump is evidence that your financial concerns bit is wrong.

There was and is much more at play here than a voter's own financial interests.  

[herman]

It's not personal financial concerns:

...But Kortemeyer isn’t sure whether he will vote for Trump again. He disapproves of the president’s treatment of migrants at the border and what he sees as a reckless approach to foreign policy, and he thinks a border wall would be a waste of money. But he likes that the economy seems to be booming under Trump’s leadership.

He also likes that many Democrats want to make health care cheaper and easier to access, along with increasing the minimum wage — but he said he is starting to believe some of the things Trump says about Democrats not caring about working-class guys like him....

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It's the lies trump spews every day, over and over, about Democrats, and which his political party and trumpmedia enthusiastically take up, endorse, and disseminate.

It will be the lies trump will promote, day after day, about Democrats and the (eventual) Democratic nominee.  It will be the lies on social media that putin puts there, day after day.

Facts don't matter, in today's rumprepublican reality.