We all know woodrow joe doesnt have the brainpower to be running things....

[Irie]

Which begs the question; who is?

Dr Jill PhD?

Obummer?

[Navy]

both....and shame on her for the continued farce she is using Biden for....power.

[Irie]

It is disgusting, isn't it!

[Susiejoe]

Joe never had the brain power to run this country and now he doesn't have what little he had.  

Best speculation I have seen is that Obama and Shilliary - who never turned over power in 2016 - have been running things.  Joey's WH staff and implementers of the progressives' disaster are all their guys.  

On Sunday, June 30, 2024 at 6:14:48 AM UTC-5 Irie wrote:

[Susiejoe]

All of them have been presenting the farce Navy.  They took control of the news and now, Americans haven't a clue to what is really going on in the world.  

On Sunday, June 30, 2024 at 6:31:59 AM UTC-5 Navy wrote:

[Navy]

Yep...exactly right!

[Lobo]

For someone who supposedly doesn't have the brainpower to do it, he's certainly done a damn good of running the country over the last three and a half years. From saving countless American lives from the Covid pandemic death with his mass vaccination program -- after Trump's lies, incompetence, and refusal for the first crucial months to even acknowledge that there was a problem -- resulted in at least a hundred thousand of the million Covid deaths that occurred on his watch. 

Along with finally getting our nation's crumbling infrastructure fixed, modernized, and funded after half a century or more of neglect (including Trump's weekly "Infrastructure Week!" pronouncement lies). And restoring the economy that Trump left in ruins, with empty store shelves and 15% unemployment -- being the only president in US history, other than Herbert "Great Depression" Hoover, to actually leave office with a net jobs loss! 

Under Biden, unemployment has plummeted, with the most new jobs created in history -- he exceeded merely replacing the jobs Trump lost over one and a half years ago -- with middle class wage growth exceeding inflation, and our highest Gross Domestic Product growth in half a century. Even the inflation rate in America has been brought down precipitously from over 8% to a more normal 3.1%, which is lower than almost any other country after experiencing the world wide inflation that resulted from the global pandemic shutdown.

Even with the issue that GOPers say bothers them the most -- immigration, legal and otherwise -- Biden worked mightily with Republicans to get the funding, legal power, judges, agents, and other resources he needs to fix it, including the power to cut off legal immigration altogether after it reaches a certain number -- and had reached a compromise bill that most in both parties were eager to sign into law. But at the last moment, Trump pulled the rug out from everyone, including his own GOP in Congress, because he didn't want to see another Biden legislative win,  preferring having a political issue before November over having a solution. Proving beyond any doubt that MAGAs only want power, and have no real interest in immigration or actually governing America.

[Navy]

For someone who supposedly doesn't have the brainpower to do it, he's certainly done a damn good of running the country over the last three and a half years.

You have got to be kidding or blind  and a sheeple.bleating the lies.

[Lobo]

<< Best speculation I have seen is that Obama and Shilliary - who never turned over power in 2016 - have been running things.  Joey's WH staff and implementers of the progressives' disaster are all their guys.    >>

In fact, she very publicly and graciously conceded to Trump in 2016. Despite Trump having provably received a great deal of help winning from his mentor/benefactor Vladimir Putin. And from then-FBI Director James Comey's last-minute interference on Trump's behalf.

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501425243/watch-live-hillary-clinton-concedes-presidential-race-to-donald-trump

https://youtu.be/uqh6FcYJ6WE

In contrast to Donald Trump, who pulled out every stop to cheat in 2020 and, when that failed, instigated a violent Coup Insurrection -- the first in US history -- to stay in power by force.

[Lobo]

<< You have got to be kidding or blind  and a sheeple.bleating the lies  >>

So, show me specifically where you think I'm wrong.

[Irie]

WADR, why go down that path, again?  You'll just make the same claims in 2 days.

[Navy]

Just look around outside that bubble you seem to live in. 

On Sunday, June 30, 2024 at 11:37:02 AM UTC-5 Lobo wrote:

[Susiejoe]

In fact, she very publicly and graciously conceded to Trump in 2016.  

Shilliary through one of her drunken tantrum that night loco, cussing everyone out. She still - when allowed in public - claims that Russia interfered and help Trump steal the election from her. Matter of fact, so do you.  

 All the Mueller bullshit and obstruction by her buddies in the State Dept.  Like she hasn't been cheering on all the legal persecutions.  UNENDING CRAP from you all.  

[Lobo]

<< WADR, why go down that path, again?  You'll just make the same claims in 2 days.  >>

I'm still waiting for someone to "go down that path" a first time. Can you show me where you think I'm wrong?

[Lobo]

<< Just look around outside that bubble you seem to live in.  >>

No. I made a number of specific assertions. If you think I'm wrong about any of them, it's up to you to show me where. The only people living in information bubbles are MAGAs.

Look around at what? The economy is strong, crime is way down, the country is in anything but the ruin and desolation that Trump and his people have convinced you is occurring. Those are proven facts.

Do we have problems? Sure, we always have and always will, but at least Biden has gone a long way toward fixing many of them, and has been trying to tackle most of the rest through governing. Not pissing and moaning like Trump about how the world is out to get him, and promising to use his presidency for "retribution", to "get even" with everyone he thinks ever wronged him.

Prices are high, but many of them are coming down (especially drug prices for seniors and diabetics, thanks to Biden). In any case, Biden didn't have anything to do with creating or maintaining an inflation that hit every country in the world, most of them much higher than inflation here.

What is Trump's plan for reducing prices? His promise to stick tariffs on all imported goods would vastly increase prices paid by consumers, like having a national sales tax.

[Lobo]

<< Shilliary through one of her drunken tantrum that night loco, cussing everyone out.>>

None of that is true. She conceded publicly, graciously, and peacefully. Just like every other US presidential nominee who ever lost -- until Donald Trump came along.

<<She still - when allowed in public - claims that Russia interfered and help Trump steal the election from her. Matter of fact, so do you.  >>

Because it's a well-investigated, well-proven, indisputable fact that Putin interfered a great deal on our election to install his "Useful Idiot" Trump in our White House; largely through a tsunami of disinformation created in the Kremlin. Proven in the Mueller Report, proven in a number of court cases, proven by reputable investigative news sources, and even proven by a pre-MAGA Republican-majority Senate Intelligence Committee report.

I don't know if it amounted to "stealing" the election -- and you'll have to show me where Clinton ever said that it did -- but it was unquestionably wrong, illegal, unAmerican, and anti-American; at least bordering on an act of war by Putin, and treason by Trump.

<< All the Mueller bullshit and obstruction by her buddies in the State Dept.  Like she hasn't been cheering on all the legal persecutions.  UNENDING CRAP from you all.>>

There have been no "legal persecutions" of Donald Trump. He committed a number of felonies during and before his presidency, and is simply being held legally to account for them by our independent criminal justice system, like anyone else in this country.

Or is it your belief that ex-presidents should be above the law, and hold permanent Get Out Of Jail Free cards, like some kind of absolute monarch?

[Lobo]

<< No. I made a number of specific assertions. If you think I'm wrong about any of them, it's up to you to show me where. The only people living in information bubbles are MAGAs.  >>

MAGA Cultists, I should have said.

[Irie]

Do you not recall our multiple  "jobs created" vs "jobs recovered " interaction?

Seriously?

[Irie]

InteractionS*

[Lobo]

<< Do you not recall our multiple  "jobs created" vs "jobs recovered " interaction?
Seriously?>>

I do. And you seem to have forgotten the point I demonstrated then that the number of new jobs under Biden began to exceed the number of "recovered" jobs in early 2023.

[I-think4me]

Do you not recall our multiple  "jobs created" vs "jobs recovered " interaction?

Seriously?

A bs metric that we have never applied to any other administration.  After the Great Depression or the Great Recession we certainly did not distinguish between jobs recovered or created.  Of course the same rules of accountability never apply to Trump.  

On Sunday, June 30, 2024 at 8:50:08 PM UTC-5 Irie wrote:

[Lobo]

<< A bs metric that we have never applied to any other administration.  After the Great Depression or the Great Recession we certainly did not distinguish between jobs recovered or created.  Of course the same rules of accountability never apply to Trump.  >>

Yeah, really! But even after moving the goalpost and giving Trump a free pass on that, the number of jobs Trump lost began to be exceeded by new jobs created under Biden by early 2023.

Not that any US president besides Trump has ever seen a net loss of jobs leaving office. With the sole exception of Herbert Hoover, that is. And even Hoover lost fewer jobs with his Great Depression than Trump lost with his pandemic lies and incompetence. Never mind the probable 100,000 or so (out of one million) lives lost by him unnecessarily.

[Irie]

How many folks were furloughed in the great depression....I've forgotten the stat.

[I-think4me]

How many folks were furloughed in the great depression....I've forgotten the stat.

“Furloughed"?  How many were furloughed during Covid?  That is not a stat we have ever kept,  either you are employed or you are unemployed.  Unemployment calculations do not include some exception for people who hope or plan to return to their previous job.

[Lobo]

"Furloughed" wouldn't have meant much at a time when the businesses they worked for went out of business wholesale, when workers had few if any rights, and when social programs consisted of a few privately run soup kitchens here and there, with having to be proselytized by some preacher first as the price of acquiring a bowl of soup and a crust of bread.

A great many businesses went out of business permanently under Trump's pandemic shutdown too. And if GOPers and the Leo courts had their way, workers' rights and the social safety net would have been gone too. (And will be if MAGAs are put back in power).

[Irie]

BLS wasn't aware that we dont keep those stats...

More than 18 million workers were on furlough in April [2020], according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Google searches for, “What does furlough mean?” exploded that month. After all, the previous record, in 1982, was 2.5 million. Companies that have furloughed workers include Tesla, GAP, Macy’s, Marriott, Best Buy and Disney. And no kind of worker has been immune; even lawyers and doctors have been placed on temporary absences. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/15/when-furloughs-become-layoffs-during-pandemic.html

[I-think4me]

From your link:

SOURCE: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Job Losers on Layoff as a Percent of Total Unemployed, retrieved from FRED.

Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. The BLS classifies temporary layoffs as those who have been given a date to return to work by their employer or expect to be recalled to their job within 6 months. However, if a person was uncertain of when they would retum to work due to the coronavirus, the bLo Included this person in the temporary denniton.

BLS classifies them as temporary layoffs.   The bulk of those temporary layoffs occurred in April 2020.  They were no longer temporary layoffs, well before Biden was even elected.  Temporary layoffs are jobs lost

"Workers expecting to be recalled from temporary layoff are counted as unemployed whether or not they have engaged in a specific job seeking activity. In all other cases, the individual must have been engaged in at least one active job search activity in the 4 weeks preceding the interview and be available for work (except for temporary illness)." - BLS

[Irie]

You don't agree that millions returned to jobs they were furloughed from.  

You attribute all to woodrow Joe's fantastic economic policies.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Lobo]

<< You don't agree that millions returned to jobs they were furloughed from.  >>

Some of them were "furloughed". Many others simply lost their jobs permanently. But even if they had all only lost their jobs temporarily, the 4 million net loss of jobs under Trump -- furloughed, fired, laid off, their employer gone out of business, whatever -- was replaced by early 2023. After that, the millions of jobs were new jobs created under Biden. 

That's 15 million jobs created under Biden to date. But even if you subtract 4 million from that number as "replacements" for Trump's job losses, that still leaves 11 million jobs created so far.

[Susiejoe]

As they say, figures don't lie but liars figure.  Now think lies.  Unemployment numbers most certainly reflect people who were temporarily laid off due to COVID who received unemployment benefits.  

Here are some charts on historical  employment:  https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2024/01/10/are-the-jobs-numbers-fake/

First thing to note is that the author discusses how a number is released and then later revised downward. Often those revisions can be done a number of times.  Presidents have a habit of touting the first number and being silent when a final number is ultimately calculated.  

Second thing is as Irie pointed out, Trump's number contains the Covid shutdown.  Biden's numbers reflect the return to work.  To make the numbers comparable, the effects of Covid need to be separated from each because Trump's numbers do not reflect true jobs lost and Biden's numbers do not represent jobs created.  

In the debate, Biden touted his great job creation and criticized Trump for all the jobs lost in his term.  Biden was being dishonest, very dishonest.  I remember back to 2020 and the Covid period.  Months before the election, Trump was encouraging states to stop their restrictions on jobs and schools and open back up.  Democrapic governors would NOT.  Come Biden's inauguration in 2021, they suddenly opened up.  That was a shitty game and more dishonesty.  Dems knew exactly what they were doing to make Trump appear bad and make Biden look good.   

[Susiejoe]

Give it up loco.  The numbers are distorted because of COVID for both presidents.  Only thing Biden can take credit for is playing the game of keeping states shut down and people unemployeed far longer than they needed to be which for the record, caused true job losses in those companies who were unable to survive that long.  

[Lobo]

Whether you think BLS numbers are fudged or not, the same techniques for computing them are used year after, from administration to administration. No one at BLS has tried to make Biden's numbers look "good" and Trump's look "bad". That's ridiculous.

<<Second thing is as Irie pointed out, Trump's number contains the Covid shutdown.  Biden's numbers reflect the return to work.  To make the numbers comparable, the effects of Covid need to be separated from each because Trump's numbers do not reflect true jobs lost and Biden's numbers do not represent jobs created.>>

And as I've explained to Irie a million times before, no one is saying that Trump created the pandemic, or that the shutdown was not the primary cause of the jobs losses (though there were no comparable losses during the Spanish Flu pandemic a century before). But if GOPers are going to blame Biden for the worldwide inflation that followed the global shutdown, for which Biden was at least as blameless, and had nothing to do with either starting or maintaining -- but which has been much less severe here under him than in most of the rest of the world -- then it's only fair that Trump take the responsibility for the pandemic. You can't have it both ways. 

And in fact Trump did make it much worse here than it need have been, both in terms of deaths and economics, as compared to the rest of the world. His numbers reflect his ignoring and lying about the disease for the first few crucial months, as well as his last months in office when he indulged in the crassest of MAGA paranoia politics and ignorance to assure his followers that it was all just a "Deep State Hoax", and not to bother getting vaccinated or taking any common sense precautions.

Biden's Covid numbers, on the contrary, reflect his using his political skills against MAGAs in Congress to fund and implement a mass vaccination program, which is what transformed the disease from a pandemic into a normal epidemic, that overwhelmingly killed only MAGAs who bought into the "It's all a Conspiracy!" insanity.

<<Months before the election, Trump was encouraging states to stop their restrictions on jobs and schools and open back up.  Democrapic governors would NOT.>>

Probably because they didn't want their residents to to DIE just to help Trump politically.

<<Come Biden's inauguration in 2021, they suddenly opened up.>>

They opened up not long after Biden became president, because Biden beat the pandemic by getting the vaccine into millions of arms.

[Irie]

I have never said your boy has not "created" any jobs.  Be honest, for the love af pete.

[Susiejoe]

Whether you think BLS numbers are fudged or not, the same techniques for computing them are used year after, from administration to administration. No one at BLS has tried to make Biden's numbers look "good" and Trump's look "bad". That's ridiculous.

I didn't say the numbers are fudged.  My point is that they are misinterpreted for political purposes by politicians who get away with it because people like you let them.   Fact of the matter is, those numbers are only counting the people who are receiving unemployment compensation.  They do not reflect all the people who are unemployed but not receiving it - like all the millions of illegals who have come into the country through our open borders or all the people unemployed long term because those illegals took their jobs.  

<<Second thing is as Irie pointed out, Trump's number contains the Covid shutdown.  Biden's numbers reflect the return to work.  To make the numbers comparable, the effects of Covid need to be separated from each because Trump's numbers do not reflect true jobs lost and Biden's numbers do not represent jobs created.>>

And as I've explained to Irie a million times before, no one is saying that Trump created the pandemic, or that the shutdown was not the primary cause of the jobs losses (though there were no comparable losses during the Spanish Flu pandemic a century before). But if GOPers are going to blame Biden for the worldwide inflation that followed the global shutdown, for which Biden was at least as blameless, and had nothing to do with either starting or maintaining -- but which has been much less severe here under him than in most of the rest of the world -- then it's only fair that Trump take the responsibility for the pandemic. You can't have it both ways. 

And in fact Trump did make it much worse here than it need have been, both in terms of deaths and economics, as compared to the rest of the world. His numbers reflect his ignoring and lying about the disease for the first few crucial months, as well as his last months in office when he indulged in the crassest of MAGA paranoia politics and ignorance to assure his followers that it was all just a "Deep State Hoax", and not to bother getting vaccinated or taking any common sense precautions.

Biden's Covid numbers, on the contrary, reflect his using his political skills against MAGAs in Congress to fund and implement a mass vaccination program, which is what transformed the disease from a pandemic into a normal epidemic, that overwhelmingly killed only MAGAs who bought into the "It's all a Conspiracy!" insanity.

Bullshit. You just do not know what you are talking about plus you cannot breath without twisting anything and everything to make Trump bad..  Conspiracy theories are no more than speculations as to how to decipher all the lies being presented to the public by our politicians.  Stop it Loco.  

<<Months before the election, Trump was encouraging states to stop their restrictions on jobs and schools and open back up.  Democrapic governors would NOT.>>

Probably because they didn't want their residents to to DIE just to help Trump politically.

'Probably' my ass.   

<<Come Biden's inauguration in 2021, they suddenly opened up.>>

They opened up not long after Biden became president, because Biden beat the pandemic by getting the vaccine into millions of arms.

Complete hogwash.  You are like Biden and have a serious problem with truths.  Fact 1 is that your drug companies (in bed with the democrapic party) would not put that vaccine out until after the election in November so Trump would not receive the credit.  It was released and first available to the public in December after the election, just a few weeks before Biden was inaugurated and able to DISHONESTLY take credit for it.  Fact 3 and most important one - THE VACCINE DID NOT STOP THE PANDEMIC.  NEITHER DID TRUMP NOR BIDEN!!   

[Lobo]

<< I have never said your boy has not "created" any jobs.  Be honest, for the love af pete.  >>

Where did I say that you said that? How am I not being honest?

And what are you saying? That their numbers are somehow more or less equal? That would be entirely false. On employment, for whatever reason, Trump had historically awful numbers, Herbert Hoover being his only peer with his Great Depression, while Biden has had historically great, half century record high numbers; including the most jobs ever created by any president to date.

By the same token, for whatever reason, price inflation has admittedly been bad under Biden. Though prices in most areas have been coming down since then -- especially drug prices, thanks to legislation he pushed through -- and the inflation rate itself is now at a historically more or less normal number (a little over 3%).

But even at its worst in 2022-2023, inflation under Biden was only a little worse (a little over 8%) than it was under Nixon (around 7%), and nowhere near as bad as it was under Gerald Ford (around 12%) or Jimmy Carter (around 14%). Even Reagan's first year in office saw 10% inflation, before he exchanged inflation for a severe recession, along with explosively high deficits and debt. And Biden has had none of the recessionary "stagflation" -- high unemployment, soaring interest rates, stagnant wages, low GDP growth -- that accompanied the inflation of the 1970s. Quite the contrary, in fact.

[Lobo]

<< I didn't say the numbers are fudged.  My point is that they are misinterpreted for political purposes by politicians who get away with it because people like you let them.   Fact of the matter is, those numbers are only counting the people who are receiving unemployment compensation.  They do not reflect all the people who are unemployed but not receiving it - like all the millions of illegals who have come into the country through our open borders or all the people unemployed long term because those illegals took their jobs.  >>

BLS has several "unemployment rates", designated "U1"to "U-6", depending on which kinds of workers are being counted, and whether the unemployment is frictional, structural, or cyclical. If you want to compaie presidential administrations, what matters is that the same measure be applied for each. Which you and other Republicans don't want to do.

Illegal aliens are paid off the books -- nearly always at transient, low-wage, physically demanding jobs -- and so are not counted in any official BLS rate. Few Americans would work for the starvation-level, sub-MW wages in the jobs they take, which come with precisely zero benefits or protections of any sort, including from their employers.

It's another MAGA lie that our borders are "open". But to the extent that they're swamped, Trump and his MAGA GOPers in Congress have flatly refused to vote president Biden either the legal powers or the funding that he needs to deal with the problem (because MAGA god-emperor Trump wants an "issue" to take to the election, not a solution while Biden is in the White House).

These might help you understand unemployment in official terms:

https://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm

https://online.maryville.edu/blog/8-types-of-unemployment-understanding-each-type/

<<Bullshit. You just do not know what you are talking about plus you cannot breath without twisting anything and everything to make Trump bad..  Conspiracy theories are no more than speculations as to how to decipher all the lies being presented to the public by our politicians.  Stop it Loco.  >>

I haven't "twisted" anything. If you want to relieve Trump of any blame or responsibility for the pandemic, or the bad economic effects from it that happened on his watch, because Covid was a worldwide phenomenon that he had little to no control over (which would be true only to a certain extent), then fine. But don't then turn around and dishonestly blame Biden for the inflation and steep price increases that followed in the wake of the pandemic, which was ALSO a worldwide phenomenon that HE had little to no control over.

You don't get to have it both ways.

<<Biden's Covid numbers, on the contrary, reflect his using his political skills against MAGAs in Congress to fund and implement a mass vaccination program, which is what transformed the disease from a pandemic into a normal epidemic, that overwhelmingly killed only MAGAs who bought into the "It's all a Conspiracy!" insanity.

Bullshit. You just do not know what you are talking about plus you cannot breath without twisting anything and everything to make Trump bad..  Conspiracy theories are no more than speculations as to how to decipher all the lies being presented to the public by our politicians.  Stop it Loco. >>

Are you seriously claiming that there was no mass-vaccination program started and implemented by president Biden shortly after taking office? Or that Covid deaths in America did not begin to drop precipitously among those who took the shots? Or that Trump and his minions were not pushing "Alternative Fact" conspiracy theories about the pandemic, and encouraging (both verbally and by example) rank & file MAGAs to ignore common sense precautions like masks and distancing, to consider the disease a "hoax", and the vaccinations as dangerous at best?

Because Trump and they were doing precisely that for months -- pushing outlandish conspiracy theories, especially but not exclusively on social media, that resulted in countless deaths among his followers who bought into them..

<<Probably because they didn't want their residents to to DIE just to help Trump politically.

'Probably' my ass.>>

OK. I'll agree with you on that. There was no "probably" about it. Democratic governors (and one or two relatively sane Republican governors) quite simply did not want to see their states' residents die of Covid. Especially not just to help Donald Trump politically. Period. End paragraph.

<<Complete hogwash.  You are like Biden and have a serious problem with truths.  Fact 1 is that your drug companies (in bed with the democrapic party) would not put that vaccine out until after the election in November so Trump would not receive the credit.  It was released and first available to the public in December after the election, just a few weeks before Biden was inaugurated and able to DISHONESTLY take credit for it.  Fact 3 and most important one - THE VACCINE DID NOT STOP THE PANDEMIC.  NEITHER DID TRUMP NOR BIDEN!!>> 

Do you have an Alternative Fact #2?

Like a number of other industries, Big Pharma usually hedges its bets by giving more or less equally to both parties. But their top execs and owners mostly love Republicans for killing health and safety laws and regulations, and for all kinds of FREE STUFF, ranging from slashing their taxes to pointlessly extending their drug patents so that they can maintain monopolies. 

And they have a special loathing for president Biden and most Democrats for finally pushing through legislation to enable Medicare to bargain with them for prices (which their GOPer lackeys in Congress had adamantly opposed for decades). And for forcing them to cut their outrageous profits on insulin for millions of diabetics, from having to pay an average $450 per month to a still profitable $35.

<<It was released and first available to the public in December after the election, just a few weeks before Biden was inaugurated and able to DISHONESTLY take credit for it.>>

It was released before the election, but the release date has nothing to do with it. What stopped it -- what Biden did early in his presidency, and against strident GOP opposition -- was push through legislation funding the mass distribution of the vaccine into literally hundreds of millions of American arms.

<<Fact 3 and most important one - THE VACCINE DID NOT STOP THE PANDEMIC.  NEITHER DID TRUMP NOR BIDEN!!  >>

Really? What do you think stopped it? National Prayer-A-Thons? Injections of Clorox and Lysol?

[Susiejoe]

Gosh you are bad about digressing.  I already know how the employment numbers work loco.  That is why I hit on you guys for misinterpreting them.  

Are you seriously claiming that there was no mass-vaccination program started and implemented by president Biden shortly after taking office? Or that Covid deaths in America did not begin to drop precipitously among those who took the shots? Or that Trump and his minions were not pushing "Alternative Fact" conspiracy theories about the pandemic, and encouraging (both verbally and by example) rank & file MAGAs to ignore common sense precautions like masks and distancing, to consider the disease a "hoax", and the vaccinations as dangerous at best?

Because Trump and they were doing precisely that for months -- pushing outlandish conspiracy theories, especially but not exclusively on social media, that resulted in countless deaths among his followers who bought into them..

I absolutely am calling you and Biden big fat liars.  The 'plan' idiot, was worked out during Obama's term.  Vaccines were all ordered (in excess of the number of citizens) in the fall of 2020 and all the logistics for delivery around the country were worked out in detail in that plan of Obama's - When he was inaugurated, Joey immediately gave the message to his governors and TEACHERS UNION by the way, to return to work. His game was obvious as shit. He then claimed to have ordered millions more of dosages. If he in fact ordered more and he probably did, that would be more of the taxpayer dollar that ended up in the trash thanks to him.  Not long after, he claimed to have ended the pandemic.    

You also are lying that deaths began decreasing when Joey got the shots out there.  Hollywood loco.  You really haven't a clue. The first thing that decreased the death rates was that doctors stopped putting everyone who tested positive on respirators.  Then according to the experts, the virus started mutating and becoming less lethal.  The problem is that they never had proper tests to assess who had covid and who did not.  The likely correct answer is that the whole thing was for the most part a farce and people had or developed their own natural immunity and most of those who did die probably died from other causes.  

<<It was released and first available to the public in December after the election, just a few weeks before Biden was inaugurated and able to DISHONESTLY take credit for it.>>

It was released before the election, but the release date has nothing to do with it. What stopped it -- what Biden did early in his presidency, and against strident GOP opposition -- was push through legislation funding the mass distribution of the vaccine into literally hundreds of millions of American arms.

Liar, just like Joey.  Drug companies have been with the democraps since Bill Clinton.  Fauci always was a dem.  

<<Fact 3 and most important one - THE VACCINE DID NOT STOP THE PANDEMIC.  NEITHER DID TRUMP NOR BIDEN!!  >>

Really? What do you think stopped it? National Prayer-A-Thons? Injections of Clorox and Lysol?

CNN fact checkers already pegged the Clorax crap as one of Joey's lies in the debate.  Yes I was surprised.  

More libbie pseudoscience.  The pandemic stopped when Joey decided it was time to take credit for ending it.  Otherwise, COVID still lives among us all, taking its direction from mother nature and not your stupid politicians.