playing bootlegs in podcasts

[matt b.]

I was thinking about playing some songs in a podcast that I have off of
some random bootleg recordings, but I was wondering if the general
rules regarding bootlegs would allow for that? Anyone have any
thoughts on the idea?

~matt b.

[Rishabh Kumar]

2 words and an equal sign

Bootleg=NO

--Shooby
Check out the Source Code Mini podcast at http://sourcecodemini.net!

[André Fliß/Planet Groove Prod.]

Hi Matt,

this is not allowed. It is an illegal recording which means that it actually
must not exist at all and therefore not be played. I don't know exactly the
legal situation in other countries than Germany, but I think your
copyright-laws will prohibit the non-approved-by-the-author use of material
in general and the use of bootlegs in special, as it is a recording of which
the author may not even have the knowledge of existence of it ...

Regards,
André Fliß
--
Planet Groove Productions
Altenberger Str. 11
48161 Münster
Germany
Fon: +49 (0)2533/919474
Fax: +49 (0)2533/919475
mailto:in...@planetgroove.com
http://www.planetgroove.com

Surftip: http://www.sonicwizard.de

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Podcaster...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:Podcaster...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of matt b.
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:21 PM
> To: Podcasters Network
> Subject: playing bootlegs in podcasts
>
>

[matt b.]

I understand the legal implications of bootlegs, but does it change the
'allowability' if the recordings are from bands that do allow recording
of their shows and know of the existence of these? I'm sure the
obvious response is that it doesn't change the answer, since the
songwriters aren't receiving any funds for these recordings of their
songs.

~matt b.

[André Fliß/Planet Groove Prod.]

Hi Matt,

in this case you should ask the songwriters if they are agreed to the
podcasting of this recorded material. It may be that the do NOT approve
these recordings for use in broadcasting/podcasting becuase of the mostly
low quality. Additionally you should clear, whether the songs are registered
material of a collecting society (here in Germany GEMA - in USA it is the
ASCAP or BMI I suppose ...?). If so, you have to pay the licenses for using
the material in your podcast.

Regards,
André Fliß
--
Planet Groove Productions
Altenberger Str. 11
48161 Münster
Germany
Fon: +49 (0)2533/919474
Fax: +49 (0)2533/919475
mailto:in...@planetgroove.com
http://www.planetgroove.com

Surftip: http://www.sonicwizard.de

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Podcaster...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:Podcaster...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of matt b.
> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:37 PM
> To: Podcasters Network

[Cliff Shadows]

Can anyone clarify for me - it's my understanding that ASCAP allows
use of segments of songs (e.g. for intros, etc.) under :45 seconds
without specific permission. Is this correct?

Thanks

-Cliff

--
-------------------------------------------------
If you're not outraged
you haven't been paying attention.
-------------------------------------------------

[Mark Kanter]

Don't know about that. On a side, I think that if you
use a small clip of anything, just enough to come up
with an original creative work and limit it to just
enough, this is fair use. i.e. you play a few seconds
of something and comment on it in a funny way.

But that is my interpretation of the law only. Seek
counsel if unsure, would be the standard.

ps Make money from your Podcast. Visit http://PodcastSPOTS.com

--
Mark Kanter
co-founder PodcastSPOTS
& Podcasters-Network
http://PodcastSPOTS.com
cell: 407.489.3971

You can listen to our AdsOnPods report podcast here
http://AdsOnPods.com/AdsOnPods.mp3
Find out Who's Paying What.

[Dave Hitt]

I don't think so, but you can ask them yourself:
http://www.ascap.com/contactASCAP.html

Remember that ASCAP is only one organization you have to deal
with. Depending on the song, it may involve BMI or SEACAC (sp?) instead.

Of all the web sites in all the world, only one gets you
Smartenized. Visit The Hittman Chronicle at http://www.davehitt.com Now
with podcasts!

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[Markus Koller]

i checked this with suisa (ascap swiss like), it's tricky and different
in every country.

my short answer:

bootlegs = double no.
masups = no.

all rights reserved = yes, but you pay like a normal download plattform
per download

creative commons sound = double yes. use it, share it, love it. worldwide.
public domain = triple yes. worldwide.

kus
http://en.podcast.starfrosch.ch

>
> I don't think so, but you can ask them yourself:
> http://www.ascap.com/contactASCAP.html
>
> Remember that ASCAP is only one organization you have to deal with.
> Depending on the song, it may involve BMI or SEACAC (sp?) instead.
>
>
> At 03:00 PM 8/16/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> Can anyone clarify for me - it's my understanding that ASCAP allows
>> use of segments of songs (e.g. for intros, etc.) under :45 seconds
>> without specific permission. Is this correct?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -Cliff
>>
>> On 8/16/05, André Fliß/Planet Groove Prod.
>> <andre...@planetgroove.com> wrote:
>> >

[DV]

You should get explicit written permission from the artist to use it, in
that case. That should be the case anyway unless you're paying the
appropriate license fees.

-----
DAVID VESEL -- synthetic music for humans
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-----

[DV]

Not in the US. In September 2004 the 8th Circuit Court in Nashville
ruled that all samples of any length are illegal without a license. It
is presently under appeal.

-----
DAVID VESEL -- synthetic music for humans
http://www.purplenote.com/davidv
dav...@purplenote.com
-----
The Purple Note Radio Network:
Escape From Noise, vocal electronica, 10PM Sats http://efn.purplenote.com
Spellbound, music for theremin, 11PM Suns http://spellbound.purplenote.com
-----

[André Fliß/Planet Groove Prod.]

... and this is the case here in Germany, too. Though there do exist some
"legends" that claim you are allowed to use samples of a certain length (25
sec. or others) - they are wrong and legends - and do NOT represent the
truth.

[Mark Kanter]

Good info. Good topic, Can you post a link to that
nashville ruling?

--- "André Fliß/Planet Groove Prod."

=== message truncated ===

[Rishabh Kumar]

Why won't someone believe me the first time without all the evidence?! I
thought it was rule of thumb that:

Bootleg=NO

--Shooby
Check out the Source Code Mini podcast at http://sourcecodemini.net!

[DV]

Hello,

Here is the text of the decision:

http://fsnews.findlaw.com/cases/6th/04a0297p.html

Here is a non-legalese translation from musicjournal.org
(http://www.musicjournal.org/03thesongremainsthesame.html):

"The US federal appeals court has ruled that recording artists must
clear every musical sample included in their work even minor,
unrecognisable snippets of music. The lower court had ruled that artists
must pay when they sample another artists' work where the use is
recognisable but that it was legal to use musical 'snippets' as long as
it wasn't identifiable; The decision by a three-judge panel of the 6th
Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati gets rid of that distinction. The
court posed the question "If you cannot pirate the whole sound
recording, can you 'lift' or 'sample' something less than the whole?"
The Court's answer to this was in the negative" and the court added "Get
a license or do not sample - we do not see this as stifling creativity
in any significant way." The case centred on the NWA song 100 Miles and
Runnin, which samples a three-note guitar riff from Get Off Your Ass and
Jam by '70s funk-master George Clinton and Funkadelic. In the two-second
sample, the guitar pitch has been lowered, and the copied piece was
"looped" and extended to 16 beats. The sample appears five times in the
new song. NWA's song was included in the 1998 movie "I Got the Hook Up",
starring Master P and produced by his movie company, No Limit Films. No
Limit Films has argued that the sample was not protected by copyright
law. Bridgeport Music and Westbound Records, who own the copyright to
the Funkadelic song, appealed the lower court's summary judgement in
favour of No Limit Films. The lower court in 2002 said that the riff in
Clinton's song was entitled to copyright protection, but the sampling
"did not rise to the level of legally recognisable appropriation." The
appeals court disagreed, saying a recording artist who acknowledges
sampling may be liable, even when the source of a sample is
unrecognisable. This case re-affirms the position advanced above - that
sampling any part of a sound recording will always result in a copyright
infringement - as English judge Mr Justice Peterson said in 1916 - 'if
it's worth copying then its worth protecting'."

[DV]

An additional update: In June, the 6th Circuit (not the 8th as I stated
before) in Nashville issued this statement, according to CopyBlog
(http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2005/06/sixth-circuit-reaffirms-controversial.html)

"On Friday, June 3, 2005, the panel issued a new opinion in which it
"adhere[d] to our conclusions and amend the opinion to further clarify
our reasoning." 2005 U.S. App. LEXIS 10140 (6th Cir. June 3, 2005)."

This ruling is widely seen as disastrous to the recording industry,
given the fact that "de minimus" sampling has been taken for granted for
decades. The RIAA is leading an appeal to the Supreme Court. Kinda
nice to have them on our side for a change....

[Mark Kanter]

Excellent info. Thanks for posting this!

[Chris Nielsen]

Hi Mark,

I guess I thought this was going to be a newsletter, not a discussion
list...

How do I un-subscribe?

Thanks,
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Kanter [mailto:mwka...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 12:45 PM
To: Podcaster...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: playing bootlegs in podcasts

[Rishabh Kumar]

You thought wrong lol. I think you can unsubscribe by logging in via google
and looking at the groups you're subscribed to

--Shooby
Check out the Source Code Mini podcast at http://sourcecodemini.net!

-----Original Message-----
From: Podcaster...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Podcaster...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Nielsen
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:45 AM
To: Podcaster...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: playing bootlegs in podcasts

[Cliff Shadows]

This is from the ASCAP site:

"NON-INTERACTIVE 5.0"
effective
JANUARY 1, 2005

We designed the ASCAP Experimental License Agreement for Internet
Sites & Services - Release 5.0 for sites and services that perform
ASCAP music in a non-interactive manner. Currently, "non-interactive"
means that users cannot select individual songs or collections of song
unless the performance is not more than sixty (60) seconds in
duration.
Examples of music uses that qualify for Non-Interactive 5.0 include:

*Webcasts
*Performances that are embedded in a site or service, such as a "Flash" intro
*"Samples" (i.e., song excerpts that are not more than 60 seconds in duration)