Springfield Trapdoor Serial Number Location
Zee Palmer
I have an 1873 Trapdoor Carbine that has a SN of 28366. One, does anyone have any other guess at the serial number other than 28366...see pics? It's been very abused, but that is my best guess. Two, does anyone have any idea as to where this rifle may have served? It is not a "True" original, and appears to be more of a Battle Damaged - Springfield Arsenal Rebuild, as it has the following characteristics:
I'm certainly no expert but I do have a few thoughts that I gleaned from the Poyer/Riech book you mention that you have plus a few other online sources. I want an early carbine but the prices have really soared in the last few years.
rework as late as you say they would have upgraded the rear sight to one of the later models that allow for a windage adjustment which the 1873 rear sights would not do. The original rear sight screws were slotless to prevent soldiers from being able to remove them. The arsenals had a tool that would remove them for repair. They continued to use slotless screws until the Buffington sight was introduced in 1884. This is when they finally went to slotted screws to mount the rear sight.
One thing I noticed is that since the buttstock on your example has a tool cavity and a routed out area for the butt plate cover swivel device, it would mean that your carbine originally had a buttplate with a door coving the cavity for a segmented cleaning rod. It would have also been the first type used with the early carbines. With that type the swivel door revealed keyhole shape cutout which matches up with the holes in your stock--meaning that the stock is probably original. After serial number 130k they went to a type II buttplate that had a larger oval cutout shape under the swivel door. I don't see any info in the book that would indicate that they ever used a solid butt plate on a carbine but I may have missed it.
A major feature is the stock. For that serial number it needs to be a short wrist. So more pics are needed of the wrist area and at the fore-end to make sure it is not a filled in rifle (ramrod channel). Also, under the butt plate, no filled in holes for the cleaning kit.
Dunmore is correct. It is not the original stock. They didn't add the compartment for tools and the 1st type butt plate with a swivel door until serial number circa 78,000. I missed that statement in the Poyer book. That means your stock is a replacement but the butt plate may be original. That's not a real big deal since stocks had to be replaced all the time.
Stocks manufactured prior to serial number 70 to 72,000 have a short comb and long wrist and afterward a long comb and short wrist but since your stock has the tool cavity, it should be the short wrist version. The wrists were also slightly thicker. The reason the combs were lengthened which shortened the wrist was due to the tendency of the long wrists to break.
I'm going to stop now before I get into more trouble. You have the book and it's mostly all there if you read through each section. Al Frasca also co-wrote a book on the trapdoor that he used to sell on his website but they are long out of print now and he finally sold out. I bought my rifle from him and he used to always have a good selection of carbines and rifles but I guess he has retired from selling. His website is still up but he no longer has any inventory of parts, accessories, and guns. Still, you might find some interesting info there.
I am looking for any information about my Springfield Trapdoor Model 1884 Serial $80835. When made? Markings of lower left Barrel in front of Breech V, P, what appears to be a feather, then another P. Also there is a letter "A" on the lower right side of barrel in front of breech. What do these mean? Barrel length is approximately 33", but stock ends just in front of rear barrel band. Did this originally have a full length wooden stock and then was cut down to a shorter stock. Is it worth trying to find parts to restore this piece to "near original"? Thank you
The M1884 was created in rifle, cadet rifle, and carbine versions. Exact dimensions will vary by what type of M1884 you have. For technical details, there are some records of the Springfield Armory at the National Archives at Boston. Also the staff at the Springfield Armory National Historic Site may be able to help you some. You might also want to try the following books, websites and forums.
The model 1884 did not come in serial number 80835, the beginning numbers are 280001 for the rifle, carbine and cadet rifle. Did you mean 480835( mistakenly hitting the dollar sign instead of the number 4?)
According to the Springfield Research Service Serial Numbers Volume 2, 2nd Edition a large number of these 1884 trapdoor rifles, in serial numbers near yours, were given to the US Navy in 1943, however the closed serial number I found was 480883 which was transferred to the Springfield Armory Museum in 1909.
Not to long ago my father in law passed and to say that he was an avid gun collector would be an understatement. His collection ranges from the revolution era up to the current decade, often with duplicate examples of the same piece. We all live in Gettysburg, Pa so I thought I could get some opinions from people in the area concerning this particular carbine. Instead it was like watching Ray Charles trying to throw darts....kinda funny and scary at the same time.
Now I have done some research and understand that these "Custer" carbines are far and few in between. This one was obtained by my father in law about 30 years ago and I probably walked past it a thousand times without a second look as there are firearms of all types all over the house. A friend of mine and myself have basically traced this serial number back to Fort Abraham Lincoln and from there as being issued to either Benteen or Reno during the Battle of Little Bighorn. I am almost positive however that it was not at the center of that battle.
Plus everything in between. I have many pictures that I would have to resize in order to post here as they were all 10 - 12 mb's in size so I will work on that. In the meantime please feel free to comment or squash this post till I have the pics ready....thanks!
Hey there. If you want help the first thing would be to authenticate the firearm and make sure it is not a cut down long rifle. That means pictures of the muzzle, and the front of the stock. It looks like yours has the right rear sight for the time period.
There are lots of fellows who specialized specifically in 1873 trapdoor carbines. They can spot a fake a mile off, and can save a lot of time. I would recommend hiring someone like that to research your gun especially if it has the potential to be worth so much... And its confidential and not on the open web.
I would like to say that I am not much interested in it's possible value as I am interested in the story that may come with the piece. I would assume that back in the day on the spot repairs were made as the local Amazon drop box wasn't available back then for replacement parts. It would be cool to have something special but as it is a family piece it will always be priceless.
I have about 50 hi rez pics done by a close friend of mine that specializes in photographing fine blown glass and miniture items. That's why the originals are at about 12mb. He is an awesome photographer but he was called in at the last minute and had a limited field to work with.
On your "Custer " Springfield as others have noted more pictures will confirm what it is. With what you have shown I can guess it may well be a parts gun. The serial number is in the correct range, however most Custer guns fall into two other different ranges. The first thing I saw was the rear sight is wrong, you have a M1879 type rather then the 73. Here are a number of other items to check. The knurling on the hammer should be coarse. No holes in the buttlplates for cleaning rods. The stock will be of the "long wrist" variety. The lock will have three clicks on the tumbler rather than two because of the serial range. On the barrel near the breech on the left hand side there should be no letters. The breechblock itself will have the date and an eagle and arrows with the block being of the high arch type. These are the most common items to check for it being a real early 73, I have a serial number base not with me at this location will check later. The two trapdoors sites listed are great references, If these points do not check out then the odds are this is a parts gun.
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