Russian Tansverters?

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K5MYJ

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Oct 9, 2017, 3:33:42 PM10/9/17
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Does anyone know anything about these Russian transverters:
 
I just don't have the money for a DEMI or Elcraft kit.
 
But I have been thinking about making an Elcraft 2M transverter clone. I have most of the parts.
 
But I need to get some test equipment working first.
 
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"

Edward R Cole

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Oct 9, 2017, 5:06:30 PM10/9/17
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Bob,

I recently purchased one of the144/28 10w transverters from this source (which is Ukrainian not Russian).  I have not yet powered it up to test as I was collecting info to use it with my Elecraft K3 transverter interface (1.5mw max output).  They just informed me it will run at 1mw direct RF input.  Standard unit has separate attenuator board so one can run 10w at 28-MHz drive for 10w output on 144-MHz.

I will test it using 10w input (before I modify it for 1mw) and check power, freq. drift, freq. accuracy, modulation (linearity) on SSB.
I've been told it isn't exactly stabile enough for running digital modes like JT65.  I will test that, as well.

I bought the unit to use as interface from my K3 to mw transverters that use an IF of 144-MHz using 1-3w drive.  I have a 25w DEMI 144/28 transverter but wanted something lower in power so I would not be having to remember power settings every time I went to 3400 or 10G.  I can program my K3 for transverter levels by band making it easy.

If the new transverter is not stabile enough I can add a synth LO (available from DEMI) to provide a locked LO.  Probably will need a second enclosure for that.
I ready use them in my DEMI 432, 1296, 3400, and 10G transverters.

Price on e-bay was $70 + shipping ($20 to AK).  Similar unit made by DEMI cost $195 + shipping.

Let you know my results (probably make up a webpage for this).

73, Ed - KL7UW
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73, Ed - KL7UW
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K5MYJ

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Oct 9, 2017, 10:37:52 PM10/9/17
to Glen Farough, PNWVHFS
From what I can see the only ones are the one from the Ukraine, DEMI  and Elcraft.
 
DEMI and Elcraft are too expensive for me.
 
I'm looking at the one from the Ukraine but I also have most of the  parts to build an Elcraft CLONE.
 
Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [PNWVHFS] Russian Tansverters?

Browse for the transverters from Ukraine   I built 2m and 220 units both with 28 MHz IF and 10w out
They work well

Sent from my iPhone
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Frank Kittock W7PWP

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Oct 9, 2017, 11:26:20 PM10/9/17
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im not very happy with the things 6m never did work and the 2m is not anything to wright home about ..it,s not even hooked up any more... BIG waste of time and $$

Clinton ___

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Oct 10, 2017, 8:42:41 AM10/10/17
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I bought the 220 transverter and it never did work. Waste of money.



On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 12:33:42 PM UTC-7, K5MYJ wrote:

James C

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Oct 10, 2017, 9:20:34 AM10/10/17
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Hi all,

I've ordered two of the Ukrainian 222 xv's. One was DOA and could not be resurrected. The other works absolutely great with my Kenwood TS-50. It's almost like it was made for the Kenwood. Connections are straightforward. "plug in one cable here and one there, done".

I'm using it for hilltops so I can keep my DEMI at home where it really should stay. (my other gripe with DEMI, physical size & weight)

50/50 quality control is pretty bad but I went with the pre-assembled, YMMV. If I ever order again I'll go with a kit.


I'd be remiss if I didn't mention SG in a conversation about European xv's.

Unfortunately SG-Labs out of Bulgaria doesn't have anything for the 144mhz your looking for.
That being said, They make the best price competitive xv's,

They include some nice bells and whistles like an on board sequencer, split RX/TX or common. (swapped using a simple jumper), external OXCO lock, etc etc.. Great gear.

I believe the current lineup is 33,23,13cm. They are all priced around ~200$ US. Check them out if you ever have a need for something higher up in band then 144mhz.


GL, See ya'll in Moses Lake in a couple days. .-James K7KQA DN06


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Jeremy w7eme

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Oct 10, 2017, 11:12:42 AM10/10/17
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Aloha,

If some of you wish to part with Alex's xvrtrs, I'll take them. We have scouts here that will quickly repair those and put them into service.

Let me know. I would be glad to make it right with you.

They are fine, NF is comparable with DEMi and in the case of the 220MHz unit, better than elecraft's. Not sure what all the bad mouthing is about... 

Transverters are nothing more than a mixer, LO, some filtering and buffering. LO drift would need to be Very bad for Dr. Taylor's software to lack compensation... 

Mahalo, w7eme




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Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: [PNWVHFS] Re: Russian Tansverters?

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Mark Spencer

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Oct 10, 2017, 12:20:48 PM10/10/17
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Hi. I picked up a used unit for 222. The price was reasonable and the unit was already packaged.

I adjusted the bias voltage as per:

http://www.nmvhf.org/Ukranian%20Transverter%20Transmit%20Performance.pdf


Mine seems to work ok but I don't drive it very hard. There is a notable (but IIRC fairly constant) frequency offset that I need to compensate for.

From both a basic bench test and on the air perspective I don't think there is much to choose between my FT736 with a 222 module and my IC735 IF radio plus transverter combo. I use the same power amp (with a built in preamp) with both radios but I run a second driver amp with the transverter that I don't use with the FT736.

As far as I can recall I have never attempted a JT mode qso with the transveter but I don't foresee any real issues. During the June and Sept contests my 222 qso's were via the icom 735, transverter combo. (I believe I took the FT736 as an extra radio in June but didn't use it.)

Getting a Demi unit for 222 and pairing it with a better IF radio is on my to do list.

At home for 2M I use a Demi for RX and it plays nicely with my Ic7300. Subjectively that combination does seems to work better for me than any of my other radios or combos of radios / converters at my home QTH.

Mark Spencer

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Oct 10, 2017, 12:33:51 PM10/10/17
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Edit to add... Without power amps the FT736 does put out more power on 222 than my transverter. I also ran the FT736 during the recent 222 Sprint (I still haven't pulled all my radio gear out of my truck yet.)

Bo Lowrey

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Oct 10, 2017, 3:38:26 PM10/10/17
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I have one of the 6 meter versions. Works OK for CW and SSB. 7 watts out rather than 10, but otherwise as advertised. Driving it with 5 watts through their attenuator board.
Bo WB4GZK

Edward R Cole

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Oct 10, 2017, 4:21:43 PM10/10/17
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Mark,

Thanks, I saved the article for future testing of my 144/28. I will
probably not run more than 3w for my mw transverter inputs.
Hopefully freq. is stabile for running digital modes (my experience
is that it can be no more than 20-Hz drift per minute). If the xvtr
drifts too much I will consider using a DEMI ApolVHF synth running
116.000 MHz in place of the xtal LO.

I will modify my unit after doing initial testing for performance: Rx
sens., Tx power and freq., spectral analysis (using two-tone test in the K3).

I plan to remove diode VD3 to disable K2 & K3 so my K3 can drive the
xtvr with 1mw (use the bypass direct to xvtr).
I will rewire the HF BNC to serve as IF RX with coax connected to
pin-4 on the xvtr. Unpowered leg of K1 will have a 50-ohm resistor
instead of going to the BNC.
I will remove jumper JD1 to separate 28 RX from 28 TRX path.

\-------------------------------------------------
Re: 222, I sold my DEMI 222/28 and purchased a 30w Bridgecom BCM-220
FM mobile as there is no SSB activity up here. I have a 150w
Securitor AMP which I drive to 120w by running the BCM at 5w thru 26
dB attenuation (12.5 mw for drive). Having the BCM-220 allows me to
monitor 223.50 calling freq. while running on other bands with my K3+
transverters. I also have a FT-736R for 2m FM and 70cm FM (also
backup for SSB) and eventual return to satellites.

--------------------------------------------------
I have a spare Securitor amp which I am willing to sell. Contact me
direct if anyone is interested. I requires 24v and 12v, plus keys
with 5v for Tx; est 150w with 15mw input. Input is sma-female,
output N-female. I have tested it at 100w with 10mw drive.

73, Ed - KL7UW
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Edward R Cole

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Oct 14, 2017, 8:38:52 PM10/14/17
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I made up the power plug today and hooked up coax to the unit for
testing. No problem hooking BNC cable to TRX jack which is the
28-MHz common Rx/Tx jack but VHF jack which is for 144-MHz will not
take a BNC male connector. It slides on partially then is very
physically tight so it will not go fully on. I tried many of my BNC
cords with similar effect.

Also the schematic indicates there is a green LED which lights in
Tx. I only see one LED which is red (shows power on). If that is
supposed to be a dual-color LED that does not work. If the green LED
is inside on the pcb (its worthless except for testing with cover
removed). I could clearly hear TR relays engage with PTT. Another
note is with common 28-MHz input/output if you fail to engage PTT and
transmit 10w that bypasses the attenuator and applies 10w directly to
the transverter (instantly vaporizing input devices). Hardly
fail-safe design. Only safe configuration is removing jumper JD1 and
wiring Rx with separate connector and disabling the bypass so the
input atten is always in line for Tx.

Finally used the cable I use on output of my DEMI transverter which
is a RG58 jumper with N-male and BNC-male on the ends. It went on
the furthest so BNC tabs that cause the connector to pull in when the
connector is rotated were aligned. But connector is way too tight to
rotate to lock.

With connector connected, thustly, I tested with up to 10w on 28-MHz
from the K3 (10w version) and was able only to get 1w output on
144-MHz. To compare with my 25w DEMI transverter using the same
cable to the same Bird43 meter (25C element) gave 25w.

I checked input resistance to ensure the 28-MHz was looking into the
attenuator (measured 46-ohms). With unit in Rx it sees 1.4-ohm at
the 28-MHz connector (marked TRX).

So I used the same BNC/N cable connected to my signal source set at
-107 dBm to test the Rx on 144.120 MHz
Ukraine unit produces a S9 signal on my K3.
My DEMI transverter shows S5 on my K3.

Rx looks fine (apparently has more conversion gain than my DEMI).

The attenuator is a strange conglomeration so not really sure of
amount of attenuation. Basically a double pi atten. with adjustable
resistance leg to ground in middle. Next step will be to disconnect
the atten at the transverter board and measure RF output of the atten
with 10w input.

Specs of the transverter indicate input of 1 to 50mw. This is where
it gets confusing because I inquired of the maker if 1mw would
adequately drive it (I was assured it would). My K3 transverter
interface output will only run 1.5mw max so that was a concern (so
far I have not tried that and was just using the normal 10w output of
the K3 thru the attenuator).

I'm going to make a guess that the 100-ohm adj atten pot is set for
minimum (i.e. 1mw). If that is what is measured, I will try testing
by adjusting the atten pot to a higher level. The mfr warns not to
exceed 0.1w (100mw drive) into the transverter. I can adjust it to
be 10mw and check what output results.

I have replacement BNC-female connectors so that issue is not
significant except what it says about production quality control.

If I need more drive than 1.5mw I can build a 12-dB mmic amp to boost
the drive from my K3 (perhaps a MAR6). That would result in 23mw
drive which ought to provide 5w at 144-MHz (theoretical as I have no
idea if gain curve is linear). I only need 3w for my application but
a little extra to compensate for coax loss would be useful.

I did not bother testing freq or IMD.

73, Ed - KL7UW

Loren Moline WA7SKT

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Oct 15, 2017, 9:39:58 AM10/15/17
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Interesting Ed,
Ad a strp
When I built a. 1296 transverter I tested my mixer on transmit using my antenna analyzer for a signal source. This was about 8 dbm output. I had s step attenuator if I needed it.

Loren Moline
WA7SKT
From: pnw...@googlegroups.com <pnw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Edward R Cole <kl...@acsalaska.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:38:45 PM
To: nets...@gmail.com; PNWVHFS

Subject: Re: [PNWVHFS] Re: Russian Tansverters?

>>
>>
>>Mine seems to work ok but I don't drive it very hard.   There is a
>>notable (but IIRC fairly constant) frequency offset that I need to
>>compensate for.
>>
>> From both a basic bench test and on the air perspective I don't
>> think there is much to choose between my FT736 with a 222 module
>> and my IC735 IF radio plus transverter combo.   I use the same
>> power amp (with a built in preamp) with both radios but I run a
>> second driver amp with the transverter that I don't use with the FT736.
>>
>>As far as I can recall I have never attempted a JT mode qso with
>>the transveter but I don't foresee any real issues.  During the
>>June and Sept contests my 222 qso's were via the icom 735,
>>transverter combo.  (I believe I took the FT736 as an extra radio
>>in June but didn't use it.)
>>
>>Getting a Demi unit for 222 and pairing it with a better IF radio
>>is on my to do list.
>>
>>At home for 2M I use a Demi for RX and it plays nicely with my
>>Ic7300.  Subjectively that combination does seems to work better
>>for me than any of my other radios or combos of radios / converters
>>at my home QTH.
>>
>>--
>>~The Voice of the Pacific NorthWest VHF Society~
>>You are subscribed to the Google Groups "PNWVHFS" group.
>>To post to this group, send email to PNW...@googlegroups.com

>>---
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>>Groups "PNWVHFS" group.
>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>send an email to pnwvhfs+u...@googlegroups.com.

>Dubus-NA Business mail:
>   dubu...@gmail.com
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K5MYJ

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Oct 15, 2017, 10:31:53 AM10/15/17
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Ed,

Is your transverter the same as this one:
http://transverters-store.com/144mhz.htm

It sounds different?

Bob Macklin
K5MYJ
Seattle, Wa.
"Real Radios Glow In The Dark"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward R Cole" <kl...@acsalaska.net>
To: <nets...@gmail.com>; "PNWVHFS" <pnw...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [PNWVHFS] Re: Russian Tansverters?


Edward R Cole

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Oct 15, 2017, 1:08:10 PM10/15/17
to K5MYJ, nets...@gmail.com, PNWVHFS
Bob,

That's it. Mine came assembled enclosed in a small enclosure. There
are two boards: one has the attenuator and relays and second one is
the transverter board. It has three pcb relays; k2 and K3 provide a
bypass path around the attenuator in Rx or HF bypass. K1 selects
either the HF BNC or the transverter board input at pin-1. K1 is
energized when power is turned on and K2 and K3 when PTT is keyed.

The webpage you reference only shows the transverter board.

Total cost on e-bay is $70 plus $20 shipping.

73, Ed
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