'Stretch and Seal' tape

[Rod Johnson]

While wandering ( "All who wander are not lost" ) in the plumbing section at Home Depot, I spotted  "Stretch and Seal" self-fusing silicone tape.  It is 1" wide and comes as a small spool that is 10 feet long. It supposedly stretches to three time it's length, so that should provide a pretty tight seal.

I have always used a ' Scotch' brand self-vulcanizing tape for external waterproofing, but it is somewhat difficult to find, unless you go to a major electrical supply house.  This looks like a reasonable alternative.

  I have not yet tried it, but when the need arises, I certainly will.  It comes in multiple colors, and clear; and was a bit less than $8 for the spool.

I'm retired, so I can wander without being lost.  Sometimes I wonder why I wander, but I think that is age related....where was I going with this?

 Rod J

[Matthew Lawson]

Rod I recommend sealing with mastic tape AKA coax seal. I use the silicone tape for a courtesy layer (keeps it out of the connector when heated by the sun or other sources) or the 3M supper 33+. I also use the Supper 33+ on the outer layer for UV protection.

Layers as follows:  Connector being sealed, Silicone tape or 3M supper 33+, Mastic / Coax seal, and the outer layer 3M supper 33+.

The trick is to keep the tape flat and tight, no folds or flaps. Should be smooth, also looking like it was heat shrink ed. This applies to the first layer and outer layer too. The outer layer should have no less than 2 layers of supper 33+ tape.

Supper 33+ will hold up in the cold and heat along with the UV beating down on it.

Oh make sure you seal above and below the connection your are sealing and watch for any capillary effects or water will get up in there. I have been also know to use 3M silicone paste dielectric as a moisture barrier. This is only applied to the mating surfaces. Its greasy so don't get it on the surfaces that the tape will be applied to or it wont stick and you will have a bad seal.

Hope this helps.

73!

PS I have attached a white paper on this subject and provided the link for it below.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/795773O/3mtm-evolution-of-weatherproofing-white-paper.pdf

Matthew Lawson

KC7EQO 

442.100 + 100 Hz PL Blyn Mt Repeater

http://www.qrz.com/db/KC7EQO/R

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[Jeff Moore]

Got room for the coax in that mess???   I think this falls into the category of GROSS OVERKILL!   I've never seen the need to use anything in addition to coax seal!   In fact, adding anything else just makes it that much more difficult to remove it when the time comes (and it WILL come, sooner or later!)

What good does it do to use Coax Seal, if you have to add all this other garbage to make it work??

KISS applies here!

Jeff Moore  --  KE7ACY

[Matthew Lawson]

Reliability! Jeff I do this professionally. Cutting corners causes problems and down time or damaged feed line. This is industry practice. As an engineer set the bar high and don't cut corners. This sounds complicated,but its not, really. Easy to apply and will save you from problems in the long run. Its also KISS. simple tape with the right temp specs and UV protection, unless you like fixing connections, especially operating at higher frequencies where every dB counts. Water will ruin your day.

:)

73!

Matthew Lawson

KC7EQO 

442.100 + 100 Hz PL Blyn Mt Repeater

http://www.qrz.com/db/KC7EQO/R

[kd7...@gmail.com]

Plus living in the Hoh Rain Forest, we get tons of rain and moisture. I have had many fail with just coax seal out here. Over kill out this way is a standard.

73

Dan/KD7UFF

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Matthew Lawson

<kc7...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Matthew Lawson]

Right Dan, Mastic tape Coax seal (mold-able plastic) is not UV stable. It will breakdown exposed to the sun. Nothing worse than having to climb a tower to repair a connection or replacing the whole feed line run due to water ingress-ion.

Matthew Lawson

KC7EQO 

442.100 + 100 Hz PL Blyn Mt Repeater

http://www.qrz.com/db/KC7EQO/R

Dan/KD7UFF

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[Mark Spencer]

Mathew your method is more or less what I have been using over the years for my (permanent) amateur radio activities and I have no plans to change. (I do use simpler approaches for my portable activities.)

That being said I've seen professional projects where simpler methods (ie. Name Brand "N" connectors with heat shrink tubing over the ferrules and connector bodies where needed with fusion tape covering the two mating connectors and heat shrink tubing) have been used.

My $.02 worth is that the quality of the components and the skills of the installers have a great deal to do with the overall results.

[Matthew Lawson]

Mark I totally agree. I am not saying you should do this with portable setups or if your taking it up and down all the time, but permanent yes. Application to context is key. There is also another method using cold shrink tubing and some others that are a pull and shrink covering, even these require other coverings to be applied. One of the hardest environments I have had to work with in is deploying buoys. Salt spray and content bombardment of water and spray is, and was very challenging. 

73

Matthew Lawson

KC7EQO 

442.100 + 100 Hz PL Blyn Mt Repeater

http://www.qrz.com/db/KC7EQO/R

[Marshall-K5QE]

Hi Rod and everyone else interested in this topic....we use Scotch 2242 "linerless electrical tape" for the first layer.  It molds to itself, but it is not like "monkey snot", which is truly awful.  When you want to get this stuff off, it will come off.  Then we use two layers of Scotch 88 vinyl tape and we are done.  Both of these can be had at any "home improvement store" and the price(down here) is less than $5 for a good sized roll.

We have removed the tape off connectors that were 5+ years old and the silver was pristine....of course, there was no water either.

GL with whatever is available in your area....

73 Marshall K5QE

--

[James Christiansen]

This is what I use here.  But then I'm continuously changing antennas.  Done carefully it works just fine in our wx (rain).  Tried coax seal once just to say I did, never again.  Other varieties of the 2242 rubber tape but the Scotch seems to be the best so far.  Tried the stretchy stuff once.  No good.  May have applied it incorrectly.  Have used the 'Stuf' on N connectors.  High power didn't seem to bother the 'Stuf".  One tube goes a long ways.  I have more trouble with power dividers than anything else.  The AL tube variety.  Am trying coax dividers on 2m to see if I have better luck.

Jim K7ND

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[Mark Spencer]

Hi Mathew. Dealing with Salt water sounds like a real challenge. I've been indirectly involved with RF installations in tropical areas and in Nothern Canada but have never had to deal with Salt water immersion.

Sorry I probably should have expanded a bit on my prior answer re Mastic that I don't currently use coax seal but rather a 3M moisture sealant that looks basically like a wider (approx 2" or so IIRC) and slightly less flexible version of the coax seal that I have purchased at the local ham stores. When I've used up my current stash of that product I'll likely need to find something else so I tend to follow these threads with interest.

I have used coax seal in the past without any notable issues but prefer to deal with a wider material. I have also used various forms of rubber "splicing tapes" that fuse together. Again I've never had any real issues with them but prefer to work with the wider mastic material.

I do agree with use of super 33 tape as well. I usually use the super 33 tape along with the mastic. If I plan on taking things appart I put a single layer of 33 tape over the connectors, followed by the mastic, followed by at least two layers of super 33 tape.

I've never really had any issues with "stretch and seal" tapes but find different varieties seem to behave a bit differently when I have installed them over the years. I have a nagging suspicion that the "stretch and seal" tape I've seen in use in professional installations without any other coverings may have been a different product than the samples I've purchased at local electronic and home improvement stores. I've never really delved into the specs for those products in any great detail and they items I've acquired locally might work fine on their own. In hindsight I wish I had asked the Peng who spec'd the product I saw in use at one project for the part number (:

Thanks again for the info
73
Mark S
VE7AFZ

[Edward R Cole]

I have tried "Coax Seal" a couple times: once by itself - what an
awful mess if you ever have to disconnect it; and once using
Scotch-33+ as under and overwrap layer to permit easier removal at a
later time.

But what "yuckie" stuff. Truly an "amateur" product.

As a 30-year plus radio professional with half of that involving
marine electronics subject to salt water corrosion, I used a gray
self-fusing tape, Scotch-70. Cost $30 a roll back when I was working
(retired now six years).

But it can be applied directly on the connector followed by a wrap of
Scotch-33+ or Scotch-88 (if you are cheap) to protect the soft layer
of the annealing tape. It removes with a simple slice of a knife - no goo!

But I have also used heat shrink, heat shrink with Scotch-Kote, heat
shrink with a couple layers of Scotch-33+.
All have done well in the wet climate of coastal Alaska with temps
from +80F to -35F.

Ideal is the heat shrink with goo interior that accompanies some
large coax connectors (e.g. 1-5/8-inch Heliax). But expensive and
harder to find.

My RG-213 coax N-connector based marine-VHF antennas survived direct
salt water splash perfectly over five year long installations. They
were sealed with Scotch-70 followed by Scotch-33+. I never expected
longer life for the antennas in marine use, though some did well over
that time period.

This was for professional standards of 0% failure under heavy-duty
conditions (oil spill response vessels).

Life is easier just doing ham stuff - but lessons learned still apply.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubu...@gmail.com

[Matthew Lawson]

Well I guess I should have stated coax seal was for a reference for those who don't know what mastic tape is. The brand of mastic that I use both at home and in my profession is distributed by comscope. Its much wider and malleable. I just wanted to share what I use professionally and what I see used and use in the field.

I must be the only one that has not had any issues with undoing this style of sealing. I just take a razor knife and slice down from the connector down toward the coax and peal back the seal like a banana nice and clean. No goo or messiness, unless you don't put the first layer of 33 tape down. Then it gets all over the connection and is messy.

I design, build, and deploy commercial wireless microwave links for fiber extensions and cellular networks. Along with wireless metro mesh networks, 2way radio repeaters, and LTE small cells. I also did a project for the Navy for my employer that I am working for, a Security Buoy system. Had both west and east coast deployments. That was an awesome, exhaustive, and fun project. I do miss being out on the water. We used these sealing practices with great success.

 How ever I have seen people use standard electrical tape and try to brush on liquid electrical tape over it. Nice idea, but many failed with water ingress-ion, in fact now I think about all of them did. I think they were trying to emulate another process which name has slipped my mind at the moment.

Here are some links for cable sealants that I use:

https://www.tessco.com/yts/industry/products/infra/infrastructure/sitehardware/weatherproofing/index.html

https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=18264 This is similar or the same as my comscope kit.

https://www.tessco.com/products/searchItems.do?subgroupId=4207573&hideSearchBox=true&searchUsing=ANY&tabId=4173797&searchText=488136+18264+19333&validations=nn%7CsearchText&searchType=%2FskuSearch  Here my comscope butyl tape is listed. great stuff!

3M silicone dielectric paste: This stuff I use to prime O rings, Electrical interconnects, and in RG45 connections (cat5) that use POE (power over either net) moisture and those guys do not mix, electrolysis happens fast and erodes the pins. Its also great for use in your rotor control cable connections. You can find it online or at your automotive parts store. O Reilly's carries it too.

http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=MMM8946&source=froogle&kw=MMM8946gclid=CjwKEAjwrvq9BRD5gLyrufTqg0YSJACcuF81Hw6JmKiH_-fviLxUAx1RXTDi9a5nqe_7eaOVf4TMpBoCcZzw_wcB

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MMM0/08946/N0941.oap

Anyways hope this helps, and its interesting to see what others do to seal there connections. Didn't think it would be a hot topic, but fun none the less.

73

Matthew

KC7EQO

[Edward R Cole]

Mathew,

At 10:10 PM 8/25/2016, Matthew Lawson wrote:

Well I guess I should have stated coax seal was for a reference for those who don't know what mastic tape is. The brand of mastic that I use both at home and in my profession is distributed by comscope. Its much wider and malleable. I just wanted to share what I use professionally and what I see used and use in the field

I must be the only one that has not had any issues with undoing this style of sealing. I just take a razor knife and slice down from the connector down toward the coax and peal back the seal like a banana nice and clean. No goo or messiness, unless you don't put the first layer of 33 tape down. Then it gets all over the connection and is messy.

I design, build, and deploy commercial wireless microwave links for fiber extensions and cellular networks. Along with wireless metro mesh networks, 2way radio repeaters, and LTE small cells. I also did a project for the Navy for my employer that I am working for, a Security Buoy system. Had both west and east coast deployments. That was an awesome, exhaustive, and fun project. I do miss being out on the water. We used these sealing practices with great success.

 How ever I have seen people use standard electrical tape and try to brush on liquid electrical tape over it. Nice idea, but many failed with water ingress-ion, in fact now I think about all of them did. I think they were trying to emulate another process which name has slipped my mind at the moment.

Maybe Scotch-Kote?  I have heard some say its hard to find these days.  I have a life-time supply as long as can is sealed.  I only use it over heat sink when I want an extra protection where its not likely to be disturbed for years.  But heat shrink with an layer of Scotch-33+ usually works as well.

I use heat shrink in tight installations where its nearly impossible to apply tape.

 


Here are some links for cable sealants that I use:

https://www.tessco.com/yts/industry/products/infra/infrastructure/sitehardware/weatherproofing/index.html

https://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=18264 This is similar or the same as my comscope kit.

https://www.tessco.com/products/searchItems.do?subgroupId=4207573&hideSearchBox=true&searchUsing=ANY&tabId=4173797&searchText=488136+18264+19333&validations=nn%7CsearchText&searchType=%2FskuSearch   Here my comscope butyl tape is listed. great stuff!

Interesting.  I was unaware of the mastic tape but have used Scotch-70 which is a silicone based tape.  Guessing they are similar in look and use.  Scotch-70 comes with a clear plastic separator to keep layers in the roll from self-bonding.  Its a little tricky to apply compared to ordinary electric tape.

It forms into a cohesive layer but not a sticky substance like coax seal.

3M silicone dielectric paste: This stuff I use to prime O rings, Electrical interconnects, and in RG45 connections (cat5) that use POE (power over either net) moisture and those guys do not mix, electrolysis happens fast and erodes the pins. Its also great for use in your rotor control cable connections. You can find it online or at your automotive parts store. O Reilly's carries it too.

http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=MMM8946&source=froogle&kw=MMM8946gclid=CjwKEAjwrvq9BRD5gLyrufTqg0YSJACcuF81Hw6JmKiH_-fviLxUAx1RXTDi9a5nqe_7eaOVf4TMpBoCcZzw_wcB

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MMM0/08946/N0941.oap

Anyways hope this helps, and its interesting to see what others do to seal there connections. Didn't think it would be a hot topic, but fun none the less.

Hams and their pet approaches to doing things.
73, Ed - KL7UW

73

Matthew

KC7EQO

On Aug 25, 2016 7:37 PM, "Mark Spencer" <nets...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mathew.    Dealing with Salt water sounds like a real challenge.   I've been indirectly involved with RF installations in tropical areas and in Nothern Canada but have never had to deal with Salt water immersion.

Sorry I probably should have expanded a bit on my prior answer re Mastic that I don't currently use coax seal but rather a 3M moisture sealant that looks basically like a wider (approx 2" or so IIRC) and slightly less flexible version of the coax seal that I have purchased at the local ham stores.   When I've used up my current stash of that product I'll likely need to find something else so I tend to follow these threads with interest.

I have used coax seal in the past without any notable issues but prefer to deal with a wider material.   I have also used various forms of rubber "splicing tapes" that fuse together.   Again I've never had any real issues with them but prefer to work with the wider mastic material.

I do agree with use of super 33 tape as well.   I usually use the super 33 tape along with the mastic.   If I plan on taking things appart I put a single layer of 33 tape over the connectors, followed by the mastic, followed by at least two layers of super 33 tape.

I've never really had any issues with "stretch and seal" tapes but find different varieties seem to behave a bit differently when I have installed them over the years.  I have a nagging suspicion that the "stretch and seal" tape I've seen in use in professional installations without any other coverings may have been a  different product than the samples I've purchased at local electronic and home improvement stores.  I've never really delved into the specs for those products in any great detail and they items I've acquired locally might work fine on their own.   In hindsight I wish I had asked the Peng who spec'd the product I saw in use at one project for the part number (:

Thanks again for the info

73

Mark S

VE7AFZ

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73, Ed - KL7UW

[Stephen Hanselman - KC4SW]

Ed,

 

Thanks for the information, I never knew the civilian name for that tape. We had it in red and black and used it all over the air craft we worked on.  As you say it is a dream to put on and more importantly take off. 

 

Regards,

Steve kc4sw