Korean tigers

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Scheid, Bernhard

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Nov 30, 2010, 3:38:11 PM11/30/10
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I am presently dealing with the Nihon Ryōiki at class and one story (vol. 1/28) reports that the monk Dōshō on his trip to China was requested by 500 "tigers" 虎 from Silla to lecture on the Lotus Sutra - which he does only to find a Japanese among the crowd: The saint En no Gyōja (E no ubasoku). According to the Ryoiki, the event takes place after the year 701 which is slightly anachronistic since Dōshō is known to have lived from 629-700. Nevertheless the fact that a monk preaches to wild beasts is somewhat untypical for the quite "realistic" style of the Ryōiki. My question is therefore whether "tigers" could be something like a nickname, for instance for people from (former) Silla.

I found a somewhat similar account in the Nihon Shoki where a certain Tokushi, a monk from Goguryeo is said to have learned agricultural techniques and the art of accupuncture from a "tiger" (this event is situated in Kōgyoku 4 [645]).

Being anything but an expert of ancient Korean history I only know of the myth that the semi-god Hwanung who chose among a tiger(woman) and a bear(woman), eventually deciding for the bear. The child of this couple was Dangun, the mythical ancestor of all Koreans. Obviously the legend was recorded much later than the Ryoiki (early 9th c.) but if we assume an ancient origin, it may provide a certain clue to the question, who "tigers" in ancient Korea could be, namely a neighboring, but propably "primitive" population (or perhaps the people from Silla from a Koguryeo/Baekje perspective?)

Any further hints to this question?

Bernhard

Aileen Gatten

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Nov 30, 2010, 4:17:16 PM11/30/10
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Thought you might enjoy this.--M.

> --
>

Aileen Gatten

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Nov 30, 2010, 5:35:17 PM11/30/10
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Apologies for a misdirected response to Prof. Scheid's fascinating
question.

Aileen Gatten

On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:38 PM, Scheid, Bernhard wrote:

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James M. Unger

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Nov 30, 2010, 9:42:44 PM11/30/10
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||I am presently dealing with the Nihon Ryōiki at class and one story (vol.

||1/28) reports that the monk Dōshō on his trip to China was requested by

||500 "tigers" 虎 from Silla to lecture on the Lotus Sutra - which he does

||only to find a Japanese among the crowd: The saint En no Gyōja (E no

||ubasoku). According to the Ryoiki, the event takes place after the year

||701 which is slightly anachronistic since Dōshō is known to have lived

||from 629-700. Nevertheless the fact that a monk preaches to wild beasts is

||somewhat untypical for the quite "realistic" style of the Ryōiki. My

||question is therefore whether "tigers" could be something like a nickname,

||for instance for people from (former) Silla.

 

Yes.  David Waterhouse, “Where did Toragaku come from?” Musica Asiatica 6 (1991) 73–94, notes that OJ tora, in the context of gagaku, was probably a variant of tanra, a name for the island now called Chejudo (Cecwu.to), viz. t‘amna (tham.la).  If so, then tora ‘tiger’ could be ateji

 

||I found a somewhat similar account in the Nihon Shoki where a certain

||Tokushi, a monk from Goguryeo is said to have learned agricultural

||techniques and the art of accupuncture from a "tiger" (this event is

||situated in Kōgyoku 4 [645]).

 

A person from Chejudo works here too.

 

||Being anything but an expert of ancient Korean history I only know of the

||myth that the semi-god Hwanung who chose among a tiger(woman) and a

||bear(woman), eventually deciding for the bear. The child of this couple

||was Dangun, the mythical ancestor of all Koreans. Obviously the legend was

||recorded much later than the Ryoiki (early 9th c.) but if we assume an

||ancient origin, it may provide a certain clue to the question, who

||"tigers" in ancient Korea could be, namely a neighboring, but propably

||"primitive" population (or perhaps the people from Silla from a

||Koguryeo/Baekje perspective?)

 

But the ateji explanation won’t work for Korean, in which ‘tiger’ is pŏm (pēm).

Richard Bowring

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Dec 1, 2010, 4:55:02 AM12/1/10
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Fascinating stuff. Long live PMJS!
Richard Bowring
Cambridge


guel...@waseda.jp

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Dec 1, 2010, 5:29:25 AM12/1/10
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Hello Bernhard,

there is a story about 500 tigers in the Sumaagadhaavadaana
(T02, no.0128b, p.0840c25), the number of "500" sounds very Indian
to me.

Niels

>I am presently dealing with the Nihon Ry&#333iki at class and one story (vol. 1/28) reports that the monk D&#333sh&#333 on his trip to China was requested by 500 "tigers" 虎 from Silla to lecture on the Lotus Sutra - which he does only to find a Japanese among the crowd: The saint En no Gy&#333ja (E no ubasoku). According to the Ryoiki, the event takes place after the year 701 which is slightly anachronistic since D&#333sh&#333 is known to have lived from 629-700. Nevertheless the fact that a monk preaches to wild beasts is somewhat untypical for the quite "realistic" style of the Ry&#333iki. My question is therefore whether "tigers" could be something like a nickname, for instance for people from (former) Silla.
>
>I found a somewhat similar account in the Nihon Shoki where a certain Tokushi, a monk from Goguryeo is said to have learned agricultural techniques and the art of accupuncture from a "tiger" (this event is situated in K&#333gyoku 4 [645]).


>
>Being anything but an expert of ancient Korean history I only know of the myth that the semi-god Hwanung who chose among a tiger(woman) and a bear(woman), eventually deciding for the bear. The child of this couple was Dangun, the mythical ancestor of all Koreans. Obviously the legend was recorded much later than the Ryoiki (early 9th c.) but if we assume an ancient origin, it may provide a certain clue to the question, who "tigers" in ancient Korea could be, namely a neighboring, but propably "primitive" population (or perhaps the people from Silla from a Koguryeo/Baekje perspective?)
>
>Any further hints to this question?
>
>Bernhard
>

Kai Nieminen

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Dec 1, 2010, 7:18:05 AM12/1/10
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This is entirely off the topic, but the tigers reminded me of the interesting fact that in some languages there are native names for animals which do not exist in the sphere of that particular language -- like "tora" for tiger, "wani" for crocodile in modern Japanese. (As far as I know "wani" might have meant "shark" in classical Japanese. And for "tora" I have seen a theory that the word was borrowed from Thai language.)
 
In Finnish we already for 500 years have had a native word "norsu" for elephant -- from the time when no Finn had ever seen an elephant (or at least had come back here to tell about it.) The accepted etymological explanation is simple: the first translator of the Bible into Finnish needed to have a word for "ivory", so he applied "norsu", a dialectical synonym of "walrus", whose native name in Finnish is "mursu" -- the northernmost Finns by the Arctic Sea were very familiar with walrus tusks, as valuable a merchandise in these parts of world as ivory in Africa and Asia. Among other fascinating appellations we also have a native word for dragon: "lohikäärme", which literally means "salmon-snake". I wonder if some of our forefathers have managed to hunt one and found its meat red and tasty...
 
It is white around here, and cold, 15 C below the zero. Seems like we'll have a white Christmas.
 
Kai Nieminen
 

Michael Pye

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Dec 1, 2010, 7:23:25 AM12/1/10
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Yes, I'm sure it's all Indian stuff. Lots of tigers in India. (Then
anyway, and by repute.) Also lots of big numbers. Bodhisattva feeds
hungry tiger with own body. Perhaps a general proximity to the animal
world is relevant. There's the preaching of the Dharma among the
birds, translated from Tibetan by Conze, for example. Snakes,
elephants...animals weeping at the Nirvana. No end to it !

--
Michael Pye
Professor of the Study of Religions
University of Marburg, Germany (retired)
Research Associate (International Buddhist Studies), Shin Buddhist
Comprehensive Research Institute, Otani University, Kyoto, Japan

Zitat von guel...@waseda.jp:

Radu Leca

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Dec 1, 2010, 7:25:46 AM12/1/10
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Hello Bernhard,

I recently attended a study day at London's Asia House, related to their Tiger in Asian Art exhibition. Beth McKillop from the V&A was talking about tigers in Korea - she might be able to tell you more about the subject.

Radu Leca
SOAS MA History of Art

Jos Vos

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Dec 1, 2010, 8:24:28 AM12/1/10
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Dear all,
 
Perhaps some of you are familiar with the songs of the "beggar minstrels" in the ManyīŋŊshīŋŊ (MYS XVI 3907-8 / 3885-86), one of which opens with these words (in Edwin Cranston's translation):
 
Sweet sir, / Dear lord my brother, / Here, here do you dwell; / And when you travel somewhere, why, / It's off to Kara / to catch the gods called tigers: / Taking them alive, / Eight of them, you bring back...
 
(Edwin A. Cranston, A Waka Anthology, Vol. I: The Gem-Glistening Cup, p. 759)
 
According to prof. Cranston, the 'Kara' mentioned here is definitely Korea. The same goes for the Japanese text I consulted (NKBZ edition, ManyīŋŊshīŋŊ Vol. IV).
 
For your entertainment, here is my own Dutch version, from the Eeuwige reizigers anthology (2008):
 
Zeg, lieve vriend, / wat zit jij hier lekker / en als je eens op pad gaat / is het naar Korea, tijgers vangen - /
goddelijke beesten!  / Je vangt ze levend, acht aan een stuk...
 
Best wishes from a frosty Oxford,
Jos
 

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:25:46 +0000
Subject: Re: [PMJS] Korean tigers
From: leca...@gmail.com
To: pm...@googlegroups.com

Georgios Klonos

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Dec 1, 2010, 9:11:51 AM12/1/10
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You might also want to take a look at Gorai Shigeru's annotated volume of the "Cloak of Leaves" (Konohagoromo), Chapter 8, where the author, Gyochi (a 19th-century Shugendo scholar-monk) defends En no Gyoja (i.e. that he did not transform himself into a tiger) and writes that the authors of works such as the Nihon ryoiki and the Genko shakusho confused the character with that of .

Gorai Shigeru. Konohagoromo – Toun Rokuji. Tokyo: Heibonsha, 1995.

George Klonos
Ph.D. Candidate, Stanford University
 

Scheid, Bernhard

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Dec 1, 2010, 11:45:26 AM12/1/10
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As far as I can see the suggestions are well grouped into

 

1)      An Indian/Buddhist direction, 500 tigers being a topos in Jataka-like stories as Niels and Michael indicated (I found a further hint here). In this case, tigers are just tigers, but may feel a desire for Buddhist salvation. It is of course plausible that the Ryoiki drew from Indian inspirations, but actually the Jataka influence seems not as strong as I would have had expected. As I said, there seems to be much more “realism” in the Ryoiki’s setsuwa (building on Chinese precedents) than in the Jatakas.

2)      A peculiar Korean tradition, as evidenced in Jos Vos’ post and the interesting mention of “tora-gaku” etc. by James Unger. Since almost every religious figure in the Ryoiki has some connection to Korea, knowledge of Korean lore by the author can be taken for granted, but still the evidence that “tiger” means something else than simply the animal is shaky.

 

A combination of both suggestions is of course also plausible.

Finally there is of course the possibility of an error, as pointed out by George Klonos.

 

Thank you all very much

 

Bernhard

 

Von: pm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pm...@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Jos Vos
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1.
Dezember 2010 14:24
An:
pm...@googlegroups.com
Betreff: RE: [PMJS] Korean tigers

 

Dear all,
 
Perhaps some of you are familiar with the songs of the "beggar minstrels" in the 
Manyōshū (MYS XVI 3907-8 / 3885-86), one of which opens with these words (in Edwin Cranston's translation):


 
Sweet sir, / Dear lord my brother, / Here, here do you dwell; / And when you travel somewhere, why, / It's off to Kara / to catch the gods called tigers: / Taking them alive, / Eight of them, you bring back...
 
(Edwin A. Cranston, A Waka Anthology, Vol. I: The Gem-Glistening Cup, p. 759)
 

According to prof. Cranston, the 'Kara' mentioned here is definitely Korea. The same goes for the Japanese text I consulted (NKBZ edition, Manyōshū Vol. IV).

Noel Pinnington

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Dec 1, 2010, 2:10:57 PM12/1/10
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This seems to link to something that I have idly wondered about. Komagaku 高麗楽 is always described as the gagaku that derives from Koukuri, or Kourai, but koma is the old word for cat, isn’t it (similar to nekoma)? And is that connected to komainu, which some people call lions? And I note that the kanji changes from 高麗 to 狛 when it comes to the Koma family responsible for the Komagaku tradition.

Probably everyone else knows what is going on here, but I have never had it explained to me.

Noel Pinnington

Marc Pearl

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Dec 1, 2010, 4:44:42 PM12/1/10
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"confused the character 锟斤拷 with that of 锟絒. "  Bingo!
 
I have read that in other places too.
 
mp

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:11:51 +0200
Subject: [PMJS] Korean tigers
From: vidy...@gmail.com
To: pm...@googlegroups.com

You might also want to take a look at Gorai Shigeru's annotated volume of the "Cloak of Leaves" (Konohagoromo), Chapter 8, where the author, Gyochi (a 19th-century Shugendo scholar-monk) defends En no Gyoja (i.e. that he did not transform himself into a tiger) and writes that the authors of works such as the Nihon ryoiki and the Genko shakusho confused the character 锟斤拷 with that of 锟絒.

Gorai Shigeru. Konohagoromo 锟紺 Toun Rokuji. Tokyo: Heibonsha, 1995.


George Klonos
Ph.D. Candidate, Stanford University
 


James M. Unger

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Dec 1, 2010, 5:45:47 PM12/1/10
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But is not simply a variant form of ?

 


peiying Lin

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Dec 1, 2010, 7:01:47 PM12/1/10
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From a Chinese perspective, in Tang literature, the eminent vinaya monks were often called 律虎, likewise there are also mentions of 義虎 for the monks good at exegetical studies. Just a few examples: T46, no. 1937, p.924c03; T50, no. 2060, p0610a14. Also a recent article: Huaiyu Chen 陳懷宇, "From the Lion to the Tiger" “由獅而虎”, 《張廣達教授八十大壽慶壽文集》, Taipei: Xinwenfeng, 2010。

With warm regards,
Pei-Ying Lin
(SOAS)


--

Michael Pye

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Dec 1, 2010, 8:10:57 PM12/1/10
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Those are great expressions! Tigers of the precepts, tigers of explanation...
I'm wondering if some of these associations account for the choice of
tigers as subjects in screen paintings etc. in Buddhist contexts...not
just exciting animals. It makes precepts and exegesis suddenly seem
full of vitality.
ggggrrrr!
greetings from east to west!
mp

--
Michael Pye
Professor of the Study of Religions
University of Marburg, Germany (retired)
Research Associate (International Buddhist Studies), Shin Buddhist
Comprehensive Research Institute, Otani University, Kyoto, Japan


Zitat von peiying Lin <bib...@gmail.com>:

> From a Chinese perspective, in Tang literature, the eminent vinaya monks
> were often called 律虎, likewise there are also mentions of 義虎 for the monks
> good at exegetical studies. Just a few examples: T46, no. 1937, p.924c03;
> T50, no. 2060, p0610a14. Also a recent article: Huaiyu Chen 陳懷宇, "From the
> Lion to the Tiger" “由獅而虎”, 《張廣達教授八十大壽慶壽文集》, Taipei: Xinwenfeng, 2010。
>
> With warm regards,
> Pei-Ying Lin
> (SOAS)
>
>
> On 1 December 2010 22:45, James M. Unger <unge...@osu.edu> wrote:
>
>> But is not乕 simply a variant form of 虎 ?
>>
>>

>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* pm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pm...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Georgios Klonos
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 01, 2010 9:12 AM
>> *To:* pm...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* [PMJS] Korean tigers


>>
>>
>>
>> You might also want to take a look at Gorai Shigeru's annotated volume of

>> the "Cloak of Leaves" (*Konohagoromo*), Chapter 8, where the author,


>> Gyochi (a 19th-century Shugendo scholar-monk) defends En no Gyoja (i.e. that
>> he did not transform himself into a tiger) and writes that the authors of

>> works such as the *Nihon ryoiki* and the *Genko shakusho *confused the


>> character 虎 with that of 乕.
>>

>> Gorai Shigeru. *Konohagoromo – Toun Rokuji*. Tokyo: Heibonsha, 1995.


>>
>> George Klonos
>> Ph.D. Candidate, Stanford University
>>
>> --
>> You are subscribed to PMJS: Premodern Japanese Studies.
>> To post to the list, send email to pm...@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe, send email to

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LeRon Harrison

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Dec 1, 2010, 8:34:29 PM12/1/10
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I haven't looked into gagaku deeply enough to answer these kinds of question, but there is a piece called "Komainu" that has been revived. It is mentioned in the 教訓抄 of Koma no Chikazane as being performed during Sumo matches. I had the opportunity to see the Tenri University Gagaku Society perform it last year; it is seems more in line with 獅子舞 and Chinese lion dancing. 

--- On Wed, 12/1/10, Noel Pinnington <no...@email.arizona.edu> wrote:

From: Noel Pinnington <no...@email.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [PMJS] Korean tigers
--

peiying Lin

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Dec 2, 2010, 5:35:23 AM12/2/10
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Those four-legged animals certainly bring vitality in monastic paintings! John Carpenter gave a presentation, "The Tiger in Zen Painting and Calligraphy" at the study day that Radu menioned. The tiger feature in religious contxts dating rather early; at least in the late sixth century, Chinese Daoist figure Zhang Daoling is dipicted with a tiger, and the tame tiger is compared to a dog in a Daoist biography. In some ninth- and tenth- century Dunguang manuscripts, a mysterious arhat-figure termed a tiger-tamer 伏虎 occured. About the same time, the Zen tradition in China also acquired a tiger-keeper, the monk Fenggan. (See T. H. Barrett, in J. Benn, L. Meeks & J. Robson, eds., Buddhist Monasticism in East Asia, 2005. pp. 115-6.)  

Greetings from west to east!

Pei-Ying Lin

Michael Pye

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Dec 2, 2010, 6:07:40 AM12/2/10
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And over here, just on December 1st, the character 虎 was added to the
Japanese list of joyo kanji, with both the on and kun readings. It
seems like a timely celebration of these exchanges on pmjs!

>>>> <pmjs%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<pmjs%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

Michael Pye

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Dec 2, 2010, 6:52:23 AM12/2/10
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A tiger with horns!
"Those who follow Zen without Nenbutsu may fail nine out of ten in
their attainment of the final goal, whereas those who practise
Nenbutsu will all without exception come to realisation, but the best
are those who practise Zen and Nenbutsu, for they will be like a tiger
provided with horns." (Yongming Yanshou, died 975)
quoted by Yokogawa Kensho in "Shin Buddhism as the Religion of
Hearing" (The Eastern Buddhist).

--
Michael Pye
Professor of the Study of Religions
University of Marburg, Germany (retired)

Research Associate (International Buddhistwo Studies), Shin Buddhist

>>>> <pmjs%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<pmjs%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

Rein Raud

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Dec 2, 2010, 9:19:30 AM12/2/10
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Dear Colleagues,

If anyone of you missed the deadline of the EAJS call for papers
(which was yesterday), then you will be pleased to hear we have kept
the submissions portal open for now, because there were very many last
minute submissions and some people may have had trouble with online
submission. Please find the submissions webpage at

https://www.frens.info/site/tmpl/reg9_abs_638.php

Looking forward to seeing you in Tallinn,

Rein Raud

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