Cattle in Ancient Japan
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Ross Bender
Jul 9, 2024, 2:02:23 AM (14 days ago) Jul 9
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A question that has vexed me is whether the character
牛 in ancient Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772 (recorded in Shoku Nihongi). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
Hōki 3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
Kazusa Province presented a horse
with front hooves like those of an ox. This was an auspicious omen. But when it
was investigated, it turned out that these hooves had been carved by human
hands. Therefore the Assistant Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and
five other people were dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no
Mushimaro of Amaha District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
Thanks,
Ross Bender
Michael Pye
Jul 9, 2024, 4:30:16 AM (14 days ago) Jul 9
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Dear Ross,
I have a feeling that this subject was discussed once before on
PMJS...(?). There are also several easily found websites on the
subject of oxen versus cows/bulls, but it seems the subject is a
complicated evolutionary story with sub-species descended from the
recently re-bred tauros....
For your translation though, I would take the hint from the
apparent lack of milk/curds/butter culture in early Japan that would
justify talking about cows (as we know them). Oxen on the other hand,
bigger and stronger, were used for drawing carts (but I don't know
when first documented or depicted). So ox has it, as you already
propose.
By the way, Michizane,s happily reclining "cows" are not relevant
as they probably started off as oxen and anyway have nothing to do
with milk production. Of course, most Japanese people today think of
ushi as cows like the ones shown on milk cartons and butter packets.
best wishes,
Michael Pye
Zitat von Ross Bender <rosslyn...@gmail.com>:
> A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient
> Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a
> bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772
> (recorded in *Shoku
> Nihongi*). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely
> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
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Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
I have a feeling that this subject was discussed once before on
PMJS...(?). There are also several easily found websites on the
subject of oxen versus cows/bulls, but it seems the subject is a
complicated evolutionary story with sub-species descended from the
recently re-bred tauros....
For your translation though, I would take the hint from the
apparent lack of milk/curds/butter culture in early Japan that would
justify talking about cows (as we know them). Oxen on the other hand,
bigger and stronger, were used for drawing carts (but I don't know
when first documented or depicted). So ox has it, as you already
propose.
By the way, Michizane,s happily reclining "cows" are not relevant
as they probably started off as oxen and anyway have nothing to do
with milk production. Of course, most Japanese people today think of
ushi as cows like the ones shown on milk cartons and butter packets.
best wishes,
Michael Pye
Zitat von Ross Bender <rosslyn...@gmail.com>:
> A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient
> Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a
> bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772
> Nihongi*). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely
> were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
>
> 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○
> 辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
>
> *Hōki *3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
>
> 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○
> 辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
>
> Kazusa Province presented a horse with front hooves like those of an ox.
> This was an auspicious omen. But when it was investigated, it turned out
> that these hooves had been carved by human hands. Therefore the Assistant
> Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and five other people were
> dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no Mushimaro of Amaha
> District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
>
> Thanks,
> Ross Bender
>
> --
> This was an auspicious omen. But when it was investigated, it turned out
> that these hooves had been carved by human hands. Therefore the Assistant
> Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and five other people were
> dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no Mushimaro of Amaha
> District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
>
> Thanks,
> Ross Bender
>
> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
> To post to the list, email pm...@googlegroups.com
> For the PMJS Terms of Use and more resources, please visit www.pmjs.org.
> Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org
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.................................................................................................................
Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
Mark Schumacher
Jul 9, 2024, 6:29:49 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
to pm...@googlegroups.com, Ross Bender
Hello Bender-san and PMJS Members
My "guess" is OX. Just conjecture based on very flimsy data. Not very helpful, I fear.
The zodiac calendar was officially adopted in Japan in 604 AD, and it included the Ox 丑 (not the female cow).
But curiously, the zodiac Ox is associated with YIN, which denotes the feminine, which denotes the female Cow.
A female is a cow. A castrated male is a steer. A male is a bull. And an ox can be any of the above, although most usually, it’s a castrated male.
Tenmangu shrines and sacred oxen
https://www.leafkyoto.net/en/newstore/230209-kyoto-kitanotenmangu/
Tenmangu shrines throughout Japan revere "oxen" as the messengers of Tenjin-sama (Sugawara Michizane). It is said that Sugawara was born on the day of the Ox in the year of the Ox, and lived a life closely associated with the Ox. Legend has it that before his death in Dazaifu, Kyushu, he had a last wish: "Let the oxen go where they go and not run over people."
General Info on Cows (females) -- Not common in Japan until after the Meiji Restoration of 1868.
https://www.japanjournal.jp/society/culture/pt202101281697.html
may favorable winds fill your sails
mark
My "guess" is OX. Just conjecture based on very flimsy data. Not very helpful, I fear.
The zodiac calendar was officially adopted in Japan in 604 AD, and it included the Ox 丑 (not the female cow).
But curiously, the zodiac Ox is associated with YIN, which denotes the feminine, which denotes the female Cow.
A female is a cow. A castrated male is a steer. A male is a bull. And an ox can be any of the above, although most usually, it’s a castrated male.
Tenmangu shrines and sacred oxen
https://www.leafkyoto.net/en/newstore/230209-kyoto-kitanotenmangu/
Tenmangu shrines throughout Japan revere "oxen" as the messengers of Tenjin-sama (Sugawara Michizane). It is said that Sugawara was born on the day of the Ox in the year of the Ox, and lived a life closely associated with the Ox. Legend has it that before his death in Dazaifu, Kyushu, he had a last wish: "Let the oxen go where they go and not run over people."
General Info on Cows (females) -- Not common in Japan until after the Meiji Restoration of 1868.
https://www.japanjournal.jp/society/culture/pt202101281697.html
may favorable winds fill your sails
mark
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Bryan D. Lowe
Jul 9, 2024, 8:06:42 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
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Dear All,
I just want to correct this statement that there was a lack of dairy culture in early Japan, which seems to be a common misconception.
Dairy is fairly well-documented for early Japan with an extremely famous dish called so 蘇, used as medicine but also apparently served at banquets. This is mentioned in the Engi Shiki. Emily Warren discusses this passage in her dissertation, "The Heian Origins of Japan's High Cuisine, 794-1185." (which should be the go-to for everyone on food issues) and notes "milk is to be cooked until half of the volume remains: and 'so is to be made according to this method: one to [8 L] of cooked milk yields one shō [.8L] of so.'” She goes on to explain: "To cook down the milk and remove the water content, people in the milk households 乳戸 (nyūko) who made the so would have cooked it in a pot over low heat for an extended period of time. By heating the milk around eighty degrees celsius, cooks would have killed bacteria and microorganisms in the milk, and this heating would have affected the proteins, allowing the milk to coagulate. So this was a coagulated milk product that had 'fresh' and ‘aged' forms, not unlike a mild farmers cheese. However, it is important to note that there is no evidence in the record of any kind of culturing, such as what occurs with other cheeses or yogurt. In the pages to come, I will refer to this dairy product as so cheese” (61–62). I’d encourage people everyone to look at her longer discussion of the issue, which is really excellent.
The term also appears in other less prescriptive sources such as mokkan, such as this one, confirming delivery of fresh so from Ōmi, so we know (or 蘇 we know, if I can be allowed the pun) it is not just a fantasy. Warren also discusses its appearance on menus in court diaries, etc.
There have been a number of efforts to recreate the dish and you can find recipes by googling.
Beyond so, there are also extensive laws about pastures for cows, including milk cows and various decrees appointing people and discussing offices related to dairy production. For this, please see this excellent translation and introduction to the relevant legal codes:
Manieri, Antonio. "The Law on Stables and Pastures: an Annotated Translation of the Kyūmokuryō (Sect. 23 of Yōrōryō) " Asiatische Studien - Études Asiatiques, vol. 73, no. 2, 2019, pp. 277-296. https://doi.org/10.1515/asia-2019-0011
I’m sure others have more expertise on this, but I did want to point out that a supposed absence of dairy culture should not be the reason to translate it as ox.
As for your translation question, I wonder if a more ambiguous choice like cattle (a choice alluded to in the subject heading, of course) or bovine would be best. Perhaps “front hooves resembling those of cattle”?
Sincerely,
Bryan
---------
Bryan D. Lowe
Assistant Professor of Religion
Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
Princeton University
Bryan D. Lowe
Assistant Professor of Religion
Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
Princeton University
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Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
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David Ramey
Jul 9, 2024, 8:06:54 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
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The distinction between an ox and a cow is that the term "ox" is typically used to describe a bovine that has been trained for use as a draft animal. Typically, these are castrated males, because the surgery tends to make them more docile, however, both bulls and females can be trained as oxen.
David Ramey, DVM
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Susan Tsumura
Jul 9, 2024, 10:29:10 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
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On 牛
On whether to translate the animal mentioned by Ross as "cow" or "ox,"
I would definitely say "ox."
In Webster's the first definition of "ox" is a domestic bovine mammal, and only secondly an adult castrated male.
On the other hand, the first definition of "cow" is a mature female of cattle, while the second is a domestic bovine animal, regardless of age. I cannot really use the second definition myself. When I want to be neutral, I cannot say something like "three cows," I have to say "three head of cattle.
Also, isn't the "牛車" normally translated as "ox-cart"?
> But curiously, the zodiac Ox is associated with YIN, which denotes the feminine, which denotes the female Cow.
>
The reason the "ox" branch 丑 is yin is because it is the second branch 支 in the eto branch cycle, and even numbers are yin. On the other hand, odd numbers are yang.
So rat, tiger, dragon, horse, monkey, and dog are yang, while ox, rabbit, snake, sheep, bird (or cock), and boar are yin.
> It is said that Sugawara was born on the day of the Ox in the year of the Ox, and lived a life closely associated with the Ox. Legend has it that before his death in Dazaifu, Kyushu, he had a last wish: "Let the oxen go where they go and not run over people."
>
According to the ja wikipedia, Michizane was born on Jôwa 承和12/6/25（845年8月1日). That was a year of the ox, but a day of the rat (庚子), rather than the ox. Of course, birthdays were not as well recorded in Japan and there may be various traditions.
Susan
> 2024/07/09 17:38 JST に Mark Schumacher <schumac...@gmail.com> が次のように書きました:
On whether to translate the animal mentioned by Ross as "cow" or "ox,"
I would definitely say "ox."
In Webster's the first definition of "ox" is a domestic bovine mammal, and only secondly an adult castrated male.
On the other hand, the first definition of "cow" is a mature female of cattle, while the second is a domestic bovine animal, regardless of age. I cannot really use the second definition myself. When I want to be neutral, I cannot say something like "three cows," I have to say "three head of cattle.
Also, isn't the "牛車" normally translated as "ox-cart"?
> But curiously, the zodiac Ox is associated with YIN, which denotes the feminine, which denotes the female Cow.
>
So rat, tiger, dragon, horse, monkey, and dog are yang, while ox, rabbit, snake, sheep, bird (or cock), and boar are yin.
> It is said that Sugawara was born on the day of the Ox in the year of the Ox, and lived a life closely associated with the Ox. Legend has it that before his death in Dazaifu, Kyushu, he had a last wish: "Let the oxen go where they go and not run over people."
>
Susan
> 2024/07/09 17:38 JST に Mark Schumacher <schumac...@gmail.com> が次のように書きました:
>
>
> Hello Bender-san and PMJS Members
>
> My "guess" is OX. Just conjecture based on very flimsy data. Not very helpful, I fear.
>
> The zodiac calendar was officially adopted in Japan in 604 AD, and it included the Ox 丑 (not the female cow).
>
> But curiously, the zodiac Ox is associated with YIN, which denotes the feminine, which denotes the female Cow.
>
> A female is a cow. A castrated male is a steer. A male is a bull. And an ox can be any of the above, although most usually, it’s a castrated male.
>
> Tenmangu shrines and sacred oxen
> https://www.leafkyoto.net/en/newstore/230209-kyoto-kitanotenmangu/
> Tenmangu shrines throughout Japan revere "oxen" as the messengers of Tenjin-sama (Sugawara Michizane). It is said that Sugawara was born on the day of the Ox in the year of the Ox, and lived a life closely associated with the Ox. Legend has it that before his death in Dazaifu, Kyushu, he had a last wish: "Let the oxen go where they go and not run over people."
>
> General Info on Cows (females) -- Not common in Japan until after the Meiji Restoration of 1868.
> https://www.japanjournal.jp/society/culture/pt202101281697.html
>
> may favorable winds fill your sails
> mark
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772 (recorded in Shoku Nihongi). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
> >
> >
> > 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
> > Hōki3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
>
> Hello Bender-san and PMJS Members
>
> My "guess" is OX. Just conjecture based on very flimsy data. Not very helpful, I fear.
>
> The zodiac calendar was officially adopted in Japan in 604 AD, and it included the Ox 丑 (not the female cow).
>
> But curiously, the zodiac Ox is associated with YIN, which denotes the feminine, which denotes the female Cow.
>
> A female is a cow. A castrated male is a steer. A male is a bull. And an ox can be any of the above, although most usually, it’s a castrated male.
>
> Tenmangu shrines and sacred oxen
> https://www.leafkyoto.net/en/newstore/230209-kyoto-kitanotenmangu/
> Tenmangu shrines throughout Japan revere "oxen" as the messengers of Tenjin-sama (Sugawara Michizane). It is said that Sugawara was born on the day of the Ox in the year of the Ox, and lived a life closely associated with the Ox. Legend has it that before his death in Dazaifu, Kyushu, he had a last wish: "Let the oxen go where they go and not run over people."
>
> General Info on Cows (females) -- Not common in Japan until after the Meiji Restoration of 1868.
> https://www.japanjournal.jp/society/culture/pt202101281697.html
>
> may favorable winds fill your sails
> mark
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772 (recorded in Shoku Nihongi). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
> >
> >
> > 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
Richard Bowring
Jul 9, 2024, 10:29:42 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
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This is a fascinating post generated by Ross’s question. I have two questions:
1. How do we access this thesis? It must be new, because I cannot find it on the web. I presume you were an examiner.
2. The grass radical threw me for a bit until I looked it up in 国史大辞典 where it explains it is also written 酥, which makes more sense (to me). I wonder why it died out. There is no suggestion that it was actually mare’s milk is there?
Richard
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Michael Pye
Jul 9, 2024, 10:30:32 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
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Dear All,
That is most fascinating. And the point is taken, that there was a
specialised form of dairy culture in early Japan, producing "so".
Pardon my ignorance.
At the same time, we are hardly to think of "cows" here such as are
kept in herds and known to the dairy farmers of Europe and more
recently in the Americas, are we. I notice that the quotation given
provides no quantification. It refers to one very specialised product
used as medicine or at "banquets". Thus a translation as "cow"
(presumably for readers not familiar with a discussion such as this)
might lead the reader*s imagination in the wrong direction. The animal
comparable to a horse in its strength and general usefulness would
rather be the ox, while its hooves do not fit on to a horse. So to
Ross Bender's question, I would stick with ox in this case.
best wishes,
Michael Pye
Zitat von "Bryan D. Lowe" <bdl...@princeton.edu>:
> <https://mokkanko.nabunken.go.jp/ja/6AABUS480272>, confirming
>> <mailto:rosslyn...@gmail.com>>:
That is most fascinating. And the point is taken, that there was a
specialised form of dairy culture in early Japan, producing "so".
Pardon my ignorance.
At the same time, we are hardly to think of "cows" here such as are
kept in herds and known to the dairy farmers of Europe and more
recently in the Americas, are we. I notice that the quotation given
provides no quantification. It refers to one very specialised product
used as medicine or at "banquets". Thus a translation as "cow"
(presumably for readers not familiar with a discussion such as this)
might lead the reader*s imagination in the wrong direction. The animal
comparable to a horse in its strength and general usefulness would
rather be the ox, while its hooves do not fit on to a horse. So to
Ross Bender's question, I would stick with ox in this case.
best wishes,
Michael Pye
Zitat von "Bryan D. Lowe" <bdl...@princeton.edu>:
>>
>>> A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient
>>> Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a
>>> bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772
>>> (recorded in *Shoku
>>> Nihongi*). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely
>>> were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
>>>
>>> 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○
>>> 辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
>>>
>>> *Hōki *3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
>>> Kazusa Province presented a horse with front hooves like those of an ox.
>>> This was an auspicious omen. But when it was investigated, it turned out
>>> that these hooves had been carved by human hands. Therefore the Assistant
>>> Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and five other people were
>>> dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no Mushimaro of Amaha
>>> District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ross Bender
>>>
>>> --
>>> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
>>> To post to the list, email pm...@googlegroups.com
>>> For the PMJS Terms of Use and more resources, please visit
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>>> Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org <mailto:mod...@pmjs.org>
>>> A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient
>>> Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a
>>> bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772
>>> (recorded in *Shoku
>>> Nihongi*). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely
>>> were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
>>>
>>> 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○
>>> 辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
>>>
>>> *Hōki *3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
>>> Kazusa Province presented a horse with front hooves like those of an ox.
>>> This was an auspicious omen. But when it was investigated, it turned out
>>> that these hooves had been carved by human hands. Therefore the Assistant
>>> Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and five other people were
>>> dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no Mushimaro of Amaha
>>> District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ross Bender
>>>
>>> --
>>> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
>>> To post to the list, email pm...@googlegroups.com
>>> For the PMJS Terms of Use and more resources, please visit
>>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pmjs.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cbdlowe%40princeton.edu%7C4c3d1c64274e41087cd008dc9ff15bb9%7C2ff601167431425db5af077d7791bda4%7C0%7C0%7C638561106194644692%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bzNMJfv4uJMlKo3adMZh7T40TEG8eMLLclcg5a%2BuYYM%3D&reserved=0.
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>>
>>
>>
>> .................................................................................................................
>> Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
>>
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>>
>>
>> .................................................................................................................
>> Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
>>
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>> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
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Thomas McAuley
Jul 9, 2024, 10:35:10 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
to pm...@googlegroups.com
The dissertation is available open access via ProQuest here:
Best wishes,
Tom
Dr Thomas E. McAuley, SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies
Director of Undergraduate Studies
Series Editor University of Sheffield/Routledge Japanese Studies Series
National Institute of Japanese Studies
School of East Asian Studies
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Bryan D. Lowe
Jul 9, 2024, 11:18:39 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
to pm...@googlegroups.com
Dear All,
Thank you, Tom, for sharing the link (and to answer Richard’s question, I was not an examiner or involved in this work in any way; I’m just an outsider and knew Dr. Warren has been working on food for some time).
Very briefly, in response to Michael’s coments that “cows” were not “kept in herds.” At the risk of repeating myself, I would very much encourage a look at the previously cited piece by Manieri, which includes the following line: "Article 5. A head and
a clerk shall be assigned to each pasture. Moreover,
two herdsmen shall be assigned to each herd. Each herd shall consist of one hundred heads of equine or bovine cattle at pasture.” This is a very explicit reference to what to me seem like reasonably sized herds. The remainder of the laws have extremely
detailed descriptions of how to manage these cattle ranches. I again strongly encourage a look at this important translation.
I would also add that the archaeological record has also revealed lots of cow bones at what may have been cattle ranches. I’m traveling and don’t have good access to a library right now to get a more scholarly source, but you can find some pictures of
excavated cow bones from a Nara period site and a discussion of cattle ranches in Chiba on this page: https://www.city.narashino.lg.jp/citysales/kanko/bunkahistory/rekishi/yatsukaizuka/sotogyuboku.html
If Michael’s comment about a comparison with America was simply to say that the scale of dairy farming did not exist in ancient Japan today as it does in modern factory farming, then I guess that would rather obviously be true. But I’m not sure what the
idea that there were no herds or dairy farms in Japan is based on. I would respectfully disagree.
Sincerely,
Bryan
---------
Bryan D. Lowe
Assistant Professor of Religion
Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
Princeton University
Bryan D. Lowe
Assistant Professor of Religion
Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
Princeton University
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/VI1P18901MB0829DFF2DD7C864CD4116289A0DB2%40VI1P18901MB0829.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
萬井 良大
Jul 9, 2024, 11:54:39 AM (13 days ago) Jul 9
to pm...@googlegroups.com
Dear All,
Although the problem is getting complicated, the target sentence is that a horse's hooves resemble a cattle's hooves. Since the hooves of males and females in cattle are not different, I think it would be fine to use the word "cattle" which can be used by either sex.
Best,
Yoshihiro Man'i
On 2024/07/10 0:11, Bryan D. Lowe wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Thank you, Tom, for sharing the link (and to answer Richard’s question, I was not an examiner or involved in this work in any way; I’m just an outsider and knew Dr. Warren has been working on food for some time).
>
> Very briefly, in response to Michael’s coments that “cows” were not “kept in herds.” At the risk of repeating myself, I would very much encourage a look at the previously cited piece by Manieri, which includes the following line: "Article 5. A head and a clerk shall be assigned to each pasture. Moreover,
> two herdsmen shall be assigned to each herd. Each herd shall consist of one hundred heads of equine or bovine cattle at pasture.” This is a very explicit reference to what to me seem like reasonably sized herds. The remainder of the laws have extremely detailed descriptions of how to manage these cattle ranches. I again strongly encourage a look at this important translation.
>
> I would also add that the archaeological record has also revealed lots of cow bones at what may have been cattle ranches. I’m traveling and don’t have good access to a library right now to get a more scholarly source, but you can find some pictures of excavated cow bones from a Nara period site and a discussion of cattle ranches in Chiba on this page: https://www.city.narashino.lg.jp/citysales/kanko/bunkahistory/rekishi/yatsukaizuka/sotogyuboku.html <https://www.city.narashino.lg.jp/citysales/kanko/bunkahistory/rekishi/yatsukaizuka/sotogyuboku.html>
>> WakaPoetry.net <http://wakapoetry.net/>: http://www.wakapoetry.net <http://www.wakapoetry.net/>
>> Twitter: wakapoet (http://www.twitter.com/wakapoet <http://www.twitter.com/wakapoet>)
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>> Discover Japanese Studies! http://www.discoverjapanesestudies.org <http://www.discoverjapanesestudies.org/>
>>
>> *From:*pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Richard Bowring <rb...@cam.ac.uk>
>> *Date:*Tuesday, 9 July 2024 at 15:29
>> *To:*pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*Re: [PMJS] Cattle in Ancient Japan
>> 'fresh' and ‘aged' forms, not unlike a mild farmers cheese. However, it is important to note that there is no evidence in the record of any kind of culturing, such as what occurs with other cheeses or yogurt.In the pages to come, I will refer to this dairy product as so cheese” (61–62). I’d encourage people everyone to look at her longer discussion of the issue, which is really excellent.
>> The term also appears in other less prescriptive sources such as mokkan, such as this one <https://mokkanko.nabunken.go.jp/ja/6AABUS480272>, confirming delivery of fresh so from Ōmi, so we know (or蘇we know, if I can be allowed the pun) it is not just a fantasy. Warren also discusses its appearance on menus in court diaries, etc.
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Although the problem is getting complicated, the target sentence is that a horse's hooves resemble a cattle's hooves. Since the hooves of males and females in cattle are not different, I think it would be fine to use the word "cattle" which can be used by either sex.
Best,
Yoshihiro Man'i
On 2024/07/10 0:11, Bryan D. Lowe wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Thank you, Tom, for sharing the link (and to answer Richard’s question, I was not an examiner or involved in this work in any way; I’m just an outsider and knew Dr. Warren has been working on food for some time).
>
> Very briefly, in response to Michael’s coments that “cows” were not “kept in herds.” At the risk of repeating myself, I would very much encourage a look at the previously cited piece by Manieri, which includes the following line: "Article 5. A head and a clerk shall be assigned to each pasture. Moreover,
> two herdsmen shall be assigned to each herd. Each herd shall consist of one hundred heads of equine or bovine cattle at pasture.” This is a very explicit reference to what to me seem like reasonably sized herds. The remainder of the laws have extremely detailed descriptions of how to manage these cattle ranches. I again strongly encourage a look at this important translation.
>
>
> If Michael’s comment about a comparison with America was simply to say that the scale of dairy farming did not exist in ancient Japan today as it does in modern factory farming, then I guess that would rather obviously be true. But I’m not sure what the idea that there were no herds or dairy farms in Japan is based on. I would respectfully disagree.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bryan
>
> ---------
> Bryan D. Lowe
> Assistant Professor of Religion
> Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
> Princeton University
>
>> On Jul 9, 2024, at 10:34 AM, 'Thomas McAuley' via PMJS: Listserv <pm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> The dissertation is available open access via ProQuest here:
>> https://www.proquest.com/dissertations-theses/heian-origins-japans-high-cuisine-794-1185/docview/2902855113/se-2?accountid=13828 <https://www.proquest.com/dissertations-theses/heian-origins-japans-high-cuisine-794-1185/docview/2902855113/se-2?accountid=13828>
> If Michael’s comment about a comparison with America was simply to say that the scale of dairy farming did not exist in ancient Japan today as it does in modern factory farming, then I guess that would rather obviously be true. But I’m not sure what the idea that there were no herds or dairy farms in Japan is based on. I would respectfully disagree.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bryan
>
> ---------
> Bryan D. Lowe
> Assistant Professor of Religion
> Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
> Princeton University
>
>> On Jul 9, 2024, at 10:34 AM, 'Thomas McAuley' via PMJS: Listserv <pm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> The dissertation is available open access via ProQuest here:
>> Best wishes,
>> Tom
>> Dr Thomas E. McAuley, SFHEA
>> Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies
>> Director of Undergraduate Studies
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>> Email: t.e.m...@sheffield.ac.uk <mailto:t.e.m...@sheffield.ac.uk>
>> Tom
>> Dr Thomas E. McAuley, SFHEA
>> Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies
>> Director of Undergraduate Studies
>> Series Editor University of Sheffield/Routledge Japanese Studies Series
>> National Institute of Japanese Studies
>> School of East Asian Studies
>> University of Sheffield
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>> 1 Upper Hanover Street
>> Sheffield
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>> *From:*pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Richard Bowring <rb...@cam.ac.uk>
>> *Date:*Tuesday, 9 July 2024 at 15:29
>> *To:*pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:*Re: [PMJS] Cattle in Ancient Japan
>>
>> This is a fascinating post generated by Ross’s question. I have two questions:
>> 1. How do we access this thesis? It must be new, because I cannot find it on the web. I presume you were an examiner.
>> 2. The grass radical threw me for a bit until I looked it up in国史大辞典where it explains it is also written酥, which makes more sense (to me). I wonder why it died out. There is no suggestion that it was actually mare’s milk is there?
>> This is a fascinating post generated by Ross’s question. I have two questions:
>> 1. How do we access this thesis? It must be new, because I cannot find it on the web. I presume you were an examiner.
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> On 9 Jul 2024, at 12:24, Bryan D. Lowe <bdl...@princeton.edu> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> I just want to correct this statement that there was a lack of dairy culture in early Japan, which seems to be a common misconception.
>> Dairy is fairly well-documented for early Japan with an extremely famous dish called so蘇, used as medicine but also apparently served at banquets. This is mentioned in the/Engi Shiki/. Emily Warren discusses this passage in her dissertation, "The Heian Origins of Japan's High Cuisine, 794-1185." (which should be the go-to for everyone on food issues) and notes "milk is to be cooked until half of the volume remains: and 'so is to be made according to this method: one to [8 L] of cooked milk yields one shō [.8L] of so.'” She goes on to explain: "To cook down the milk and remove the water content, people in the milk households乳戸(/nyūko/) who made the so would have cooked it in a pot over low heat for an extended period of time. By heating the milk around eighty degrees celsius, cooks would have killed bacteria and microorganisms in the milk, and this heating would have affected the proteins, allowing the milk to coagulate. So this was a coagulated milk product that had
>>
>>
>> On 9 Jul 2024, at 12:24, Bryan D. Lowe <bdl...@princeton.edu> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>> I just want to correct this statement that there was a lack of dairy culture in early Japan, which seems to be a common misconception.
>> 'fresh' and ‘aged' forms, not unlike a mild farmers cheese. However, it is important to note that there is no evidence in the record of any kind of culturing, such as what occurs with other cheeses or yogurt.In the pages to come, I will refer to this dairy product as so cheese” (61–62). I’d encourage people everyone to look at her longer discussion of the issue, which is really excellent.
>> The term also appears in other less prescriptive sources such as mokkan, such as this one <https://mokkanko.nabunken.go.jp/ja/6AABUS480272>, confirming delivery of fresh so from Ōmi, so we know (or蘇we know, if I can be allowed the pun) it is not just a fantasy. Warren also discusses its appearance on menus in court diaries, etc.
>> There have been a number of efforts to recreate the dish and you can find recipes by googling.
>> Beyond so, there are also extensive laws about pastures for cows, including milk cows and various decrees appointing people and discussing offices related to dairy production. For this, please see this excellent translation and introduction to the relevant legal codes:
>> Manieri, Antonio. "The Law on Stables and Pastures: an Annotated Translation of the Kyūmokuryō (Sect. 23 of Yōrōryō) "/Asiatische Studien - Études Asiatiques/, vol. 73, no. 2, 2019, pp. 277-296.https://doi.org/10.1515/asia-2019-0011 <https://doi.org/10.1515/asia-2019-0011>
>> Beyond so, there are also extensive laws about pastures for cows, including milk cows and various decrees appointing people and discussing offices related to dairy production. For this, please see this excellent translation and introduction to the relevant legal codes:
>> I’m sure others have more expertise on this, but I did want to point out that a supposed absence of dairy culture should not be the reason to translate it as ox.
>> As for your translation question, I wonder if a more ambiguous choice like cattle (a choice alluded to in the subject heading, of course) or bovine would be best. Perhaps “front hooves resembling those of cattle”?
>> Sincerely,
>> Bryan
>> ---------
>> Bryan D. Lowe
>> Assistant Professor of Religion
>> Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
>> Princeton University
>>
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2024, at 3:45 AM, 'Michael Pye' via PMJS: Listserv <pm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> Dear Ross,
>> I have a feeling that this subject was discussed once before on PMJS...(?). There are also several easily found websites on the subject of oxen versus cows/bulls, but it seems the subject is a complicated evolutionary story with sub-species descended from the recently re-bred tauros....
>> For your translation though, I would take the hint from the apparent lack of milk/curds/butter culture in early Japan that would justify talking about cows (as we know them). Oxen on the other hand, bigger and stronger, were used for drawing carts (but I don't know when first documented or depicted). So ox has it, as you already propose.
>> By the way, Michizane,s happily reclining "cows" are not relevant as they probably started off as oxen and anyway have nothing to do with milk production. Of course, most Japanese people today think of ushi as cows like the ones shown on milk cartons and butter packets.
>> best wishes,
>> Michael Pye
>>
>>
>> Zitat von Ross Bender <rosslyn...@gmail.com <mailto:rosslyn...@gmail.com>>:
>> As for your translation question, I wonder if a more ambiguous choice like cattle (a choice alluded to in the subject heading, of course) or bovine would be best. Perhaps “front hooves resembling those of cattle”?
>> Sincerely,
>> Bryan
>> ---------
>> Bryan D. Lowe
>> Assistant Professor of Religion
>> Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
>> Princeton University
>>
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2024, at 3:45 AM, 'Michael Pye' via PMJS: Listserv <pm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> Dear Ross,
>> I have a feeling that this subject was discussed once before on PMJS...(?). There are also several easily found websites on the subject of oxen versus cows/bulls, but it seems the subject is a complicated evolutionary story with sub-species descended from the recently re-bred tauros....
>> For your translation though, I would take the hint from the apparent lack of milk/curds/butter culture in early Japan that would justify talking about cows (as we know them). Oxen on the other hand, bigger and stronger, were used for drawing carts (but I don't know when first documented or depicted). So ox has it, as you already propose.
>> By the way, Michizane,s happily reclining "cows" are not relevant as they probably started off as oxen and anyway have nothing to do with milk production. Of course, most Japanese people today think of ushi as cows like the ones shown on milk cartons and butter packets.
>> best wishes,
>> Michael Pye
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient
>> Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a
>> bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772
>> (recorded in *Shoku
>> Nihongi*). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely
>> were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
>>
>> 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○
>> 辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
>>
>> *Hōki *3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
>> Kazusa Province presented a horse with front hooves like those of an ox.
>> This was an auspicious omen. But when it was investigated, it turned out
>> that these hooves had been carved by human hands. Therefore the Assistant
>> Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and five other people were
>> dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no Mushimaro of Amaha
>> District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ross Bender
>>
>> --
>> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
>> To post to the list, email pm...@googlegroups.com
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>>
>> A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient
>> Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a
>> bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772
>> (recorded in *Shoku
>> Nihongi*). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely
>> were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
>>
>> 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○
>> 辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
>>
>> *Hōki *3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
>> Kazusa Province presented a horse with front hooves like those of an ox.
>> This was an auspicious omen. But when it was investigated, it turned out
>> that these hooves had been carved by human hands. Therefore the Assistant
>> Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and five other people were
>> dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no Mushimaro of Amaha
>> District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ross Bender
>>
>> --
>> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
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>>
>>
>>
>> .................................................................................................................
>> Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
>>
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Michael Pye
Jul 10, 2024, 4:23:04 AM (13 days ago) Jul 10
to pm...@googlegroups.com
Dear Bryan,
Thanks for this further elucidation. I really stand corrected.
I do still wonder what they did with all these cattle or their milk.
They would need to rear them as beasts of haulage, but milk would have
been a relatively insignificant by-product???
Where did my assumption come from? Well, when I first dwelled in
Japan in the early sixties there was practically no sign of bovine
agriculture or of any spaces where there could be such. The hills and
mountains were wooded, and the lowlands were terraced for growing rice
and vegetables. I never saw a cow in a field. It was very different
from the English countryside in which I had grown up, with its water
meadows, and "cowpats" scattered across the fields. In Tokyo, milk to
drink was sold on stations in very small quantities (in a choice of
colours...), and, tellingly, milk was called ミルク as much as 牛乳, so
stamped as something foreign. I also heard in various quarters (at
that time) how an American "missionary" (not sure of what allegiance)
had "taught" Japanese people how to keep cattle on uplands, and how
this had improved the diet of some younger people who had previously
not had this source of nourishment. Then, and indeed later, the main
source of milk in Japan was Hokkaido,- only pioneered in modern
times. (There is very delicious milk from the Daisen area nowadays,
but I don*t know since when.)
So I suppose that`s how I arrived at my erroneous general
assumption. Still, perhaps we should be careful. Im a bit puzzled by
the expression "equine and bovine cattle", and also no indication of
how many herds. Supposing there were three herds, and half of them
were bovine, of which half were oxen, bred for haulage, and so on....?
Would that still add up to a dairy culture such as we find for example
in Bavaria?
best wishes, Michael
>
> Very briefly, in response to Micha; I’m just an outsider and knew
> Dr. Warren has been working....(sorry text lost, mp) . At the
> Email: t.e.m...@sheffield.ac.uk<mailto:t.e.m...@sheffield.ac.uk>
> one<https://mokkanko.nabunken.go.jp/ja/6AABUS480272>, confirming
> <rosslyn...@gmail.com<mailto:rosslyn...@gmail.com>>:
> Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org<mailto:mod...@pmjs.org>
> Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org<mailto:mod...@pmjs.org>
> Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org<mailto:mod...@pmjs.org>
Thanks for this further elucidation. I really stand corrected.
I do still wonder what they did with all these cattle or their milk.
They would need to rear them as beasts of haulage, but milk would have
been a relatively insignificant by-product???
Where did my assumption come from? Well, when I first dwelled in
Japan in the early sixties there was practically no sign of bovine
agriculture or of any spaces where there could be such. The hills and
mountains were wooded, and the lowlands were terraced for growing rice
and vegetables. I never saw a cow in a field. It was very different
from the English countryside in which I had grown up, with its water
meadows, and "cowpats" scattered across the fields. In Tokyo, milk to
drink was sold on stations in very small quantities (in a choice of
colours...), and, tellingly, milk was called ミルク as much as 牛乳, so
stamped as something foreign. I also heard in various quarters (at
that time) how an American "missionary" (not sure of what allegiance)
had "taught" Japanese people how to keep cattle on uplands, and how
this had improved the diet of some younger people who had previously
not had this source of nourishment. Then, and indeed later, the main
source of milk in Japan was Hokkaido,- only pioneered in modern
times. (There is very delicious milk from the Daisen area nowadays,
but I don*t know since when.)
So I suppose that`s how I arrived at my erroneous general
assumption. Still, perhaps we should be careful. Im a bit puzzled by
the expression "equine and bovine cattle", and also no indication of
how many herds. Supposing there were three herds, and half of them
were bovine, of which half were oxen, bred for haulage, and so on....?
Would that still add up to a dairy culture such as we find for example
in Bavaria?
best wishes, Michael
> Dear All,
>
> Thank you, Tom, for sharing the link (and to answer Richard’s
> question, I was not an examiner or involved in this work in any way).
>
> Thank you, Tom, for sharing the link (and to answer Richard’s
>
> Very briefly, in response to Micha; I’m just an outsider and knew
> Dr. Warren has been working....(sorry text lost, mp) . At the
> Twitter: wakapoet (http://www.twitter.com/wakapoet)
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> https://www.routledge.com/The-University-of-SheffieldRoutledge-Japanese-Studies-Series/book-series/SE0017
>
>
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>
>
> Discover Japanese Studies!
>
>
> A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient
> Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a
> bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772
> (recorded in *Shoku
> Nihongi*). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely
> were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
>
> 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○
> 辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
>
> *Hōki *3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
> Kazusa Province presented a horse with front hooves like those of an ox.
> This was an auspicious omen. But when it was investigated, it turned out
> that these hooves had been carved by human hands. Therefore the Assistant
> Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and five other people were
> dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no Mushimaro of Amaha
> District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
>
> Thanks,
> Ross Bender
>
> --
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>
> A question that has vexed me is whether the character 牛 in ancient
> Japan should be translated as 'cow' or 'ox.' This just came up in a
> bizarre incident of a fake omen presented to the court in 772
> (recorded in *Shoku
> Nihongi*). Cattle of some sort were obviously present, but what precisely
> were they? Here I have used 'ox.' Any help gratefully acknowledged.
>
> 《宝亀三年（七七二）七月辛丑【廿二】》○
> 辛丑。上総国献馬。前二蹄似牛。以為祥瑞。視之人巧之所刻也。国司介従五位下巨勢朝臣馬主已下五人。並坐解任。其本主天羽郡人宗我部虫麻呂決杖八十。
>
> *Hōki *3.7.22 (August 25, 772)
> Kazusa Province presented a horse with front hooves like those of an ox.
> This was an auspicious omen. But when it was investigated, it turned out
> that these hooves had been carved by human hands. Therefore the Assistant
> Governor Jr 5 Lower Kose no Asomi Umanushi and five other people were
> dismissed from office. The owner of the horse, Sogae no Mushimaro of Amaha
> District was punished with eighty blows of the cane.
>
> Thanks,
> Ross Bender
>
> --
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Anne Walthall
Jul 10, 2024, 8:57:05 PM (12 days ago) Jul 10
to pm...@googlegroups.com
Michael Pye's reminiscence reminds me that when I visited Shimoda decades ago to see the temple where Townsend Harris stayed upon his arrival to Japan, there was a placard marking the spot where "the first cow was milked in Japan." Obviously, whoever put it
up didn't know much early history, if any, but it also suggests to me that drinking cow's milk was little known in that area at that time.
Anne Walthall
From: 'Michael Pye' via PMJS: Listserv <pm...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2024 12:14 PM
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2024 12:14 PM
>
> If Michael’s comment about a comparison with America was simply to
> say that the scale of dairy farming did not exist in ancient Japan
> today as it does in modern factory farming, then I guess that would
> rather obviously be true. But I’m not sure what the idea that there
> were no herds or dairy farms in Japan is based on. I would
> respectfully disagree.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bryan
>
> ---------
> Bryan D. Lowe
> Assistant Professor of Religion
> Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
> Princeton University
>
> On Jul 9, 2024, at 10:34 AM, 'Thomas McAuley' via PMJS: Listserv
> <pm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> The dissertation is available open access via ProQuest here:
>
> If Michael’s comment about a comparison with America was simply to
> say that the scale of dairy farming did not exist in ancient Japan
> today as it does in modern factory farming, then I guess that would
> rather obviously be true. But I’m not sure what the idea that there
> were no herds or dairy farms in Japan is based on. I would
> respectfully disagree.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bryan
>
> ---------
> Bryan D. Lowe
> Assistant Professor of Religion
> Melancthon W. Jacobus University Preceptor
> Princeton University
>
> On Jul 9, 2024, at 10:34 AM, 'Thomas McAuley' via PMJS: Listserv
> <pm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> The dissertation is available open access via ProQuest here:
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Dr Thomas E. McAuley, SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies
> Director of Undergraduate Studies
> Series Editor University of Sheffield/Routledge Japanese Studies Series
>
>
> National Institute of Japanese Studies
> School of East Asian Studies
> University of Sheffield
>
> Jessop West
> 1 Upper Hanover Street
> Sheffield
> S3 7RA
>
> Tel: +44 114 222 8413
> Fax: +44 114 222 8432
>
> Email: t.e.m...@sheffield.ac.uk<mailto:t.e.m...@sheffield.ac.uk>
> Best wishes,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Dr Thomas E. McAuley, SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Japanese Studies
> Director of Undergraduate Studies
> Series Editor University of Sheffield/Routledge Japanese Studies Series
>
>
> National Institute of Japanese Studies
> School of East Asian Studies
> University of Sheffield
>
> Jessop West
> 1 Upper Hanover Street
> Sheffield
> S3 7RA
>
> Tel: +44 114 222 8413
> Fax: +44 114 222 8432
>
> Email: t.e.m...@sheffield.ac.uk<mailto:t.e.m...@sheffield.ac.uk>
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> delivery of fresh so from Ōmi, so we know (or 蘇 we know, if I can be
> allowed the pun) it is not just a fantasy. Warren also discusses its
> appearance on menus in court diaries, etc.
>
> There have been a number of efforts to recreate the dish and you can
> find recipes by googling.
>
> Beyond so, there are also extensive laws about pastures for cows,
> including milk cows and various decrees appointing people and
> discussing offices related to dairy production. For this, please see
> this excellent translation and introduction to the relevant legal
> codes:
> Manieri, Antonio. "The Law on Stables and Pastures: an Annotated
> Translation of the Kyūmokuryō (Sect. 23 of Yōrōryō) " Asiatische
> Studien - Études Asiatiques, vol. 73, no. 2, 2019, pp. 277-296.
> allowed the pun) it is not just a fantasy. Warren also discusses its
> appearance on menus in court diaries, etc.
>
> There have been a number of efforts to recreate the dish and you can
> find recipes by googling.
>
> Beyond so, there are also extensive laws about pastures for cows,
> including milk cows and various decrees appointing people and
> discussing offices related to dairy production. For this, please see
> this excellent translation and introduction to the relevant legal
> codes:
> Manieri, Antonio. "The Law on Stables and Pastures: an Annotated
> Translation of the Kyūmokuryō (Sect. 23 of Yōrōryō) " Asiatische
> Studien - Études Asiatiques, vol. 73, no. 2, 2019, pp. 277-296.
>
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Thomas D. Conlan
Jul 11, 2024, 12:43:55 AM (12 days ago) Jul 11
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This is a little off topic, but I visited Shimoda about 20 years ago, and also remember seeing a
kuyōtō located near his residence for a cow that Townsend Harris ate!
The locals were not too happy with his dietary preferences.
Tom Conlan
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Leonardo Wolfe
Jul 11, 2024, 8:14:08 AM (11 days ago) Jul 11
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Dear Ross,
I started drafting this reply the other day, but unfortunately became preoccupied with other matters.
In terms of your question, this article discusses the special treatment that horses and oxen received under the Yōrō Code.
Additionally, this article discusses the use of oxen in medicine and religion/superstition.
Whilst the context of the "auspicious omen" is unknown to me, I wonder if it refers to child-bearing in some way. Equally, however, it doesn't explain the horse connection.
I started drafting this reply the other day, but unfortunately became preoccupied with other matters.
In terms of your question, this article discusses the special treatment that horses and oxen received under the Yōrō Code.
Whilst it's arguably not of much use, I thought that it was worth mentioning as your question concerns a horse with the false hooves of a bovine.
Additionally, this article discusses the use of oxen in medicine and religion/superstition.
Whilst the context of the "auspicious omen" is unknown to me, I wonder if it refers to child-bearing in some way. Equally, however, it doesn't explain the horse connection.
Whilst there was/is the concept of avoiding births in the years of the "fire horse", this seems to be much more recent (17th century), and has connections to Yaoya Oshichi.
Perhaps somebody else can shed some light of the significance of the horse, if there is any. I imagine, however, that it is merely as case of being able to fashion a horse's hooves into that of a bovine.
Kind regards,
Leonardo Wolfe
BSc (Hons) (SOAS) - International Management (Japan & Korea)
MA Student (SOAS) - Buddhist Studies and Intensive Language (Japanese)
MA Student (SOAS) - Buddhist Studies and Intensive Language (Japanese)
Leonardo Wolfe
Jul 11, 2024, 9:18:55 AM (11 days ago) Jul 11
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Dear Ross (and members),
Please accept my apologies for not including this in my original reply, but concerning the second link that I provided, the author mentions the following (p. 250):
"However, bezoars were not only imported, but also 'produced' in Japanese provinces and sent to the capital as tributes. The Shoku Nihongi 続日本紀, for example, mentions two occasions in 698 during the reign of Monmu Tennō 文武天皇 (r. 697–707) when ox bezoars were sent as offerings from Tosa and Shimōsa provinces."
The author also goes on to discuss the Yōrō Code, which I previously mentioned.
I felt that this was worth highlighting, considering the fact that the article predominately relates to the late Heian period.
Kind regards,
Leonardo Wolfe
BSc (Hons) (SOAS) - International Management (Japan & Korea)
MA Student (SOAS) - Buddhist Studies and Intensive Language (Japanese)
Leonardo Wolfe
BSc (Hons) (SOAS) - International Management (Japan & Korea)
MA Student (SOAS) - Buddhist Studies and Intensive Language (Japanese)
Ross Bender
Jul 11, 2024, 10:55:16 AM (11 days ago) Jul 11
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Thanks to everyone so far. Fascinating stuff. I think that the Manieri translation mentioned by Bryan Lowe is the best source for the 8th century. BTW in his introduction Manieri states that:
"Of all the specific legislation on bovines, the only one to be cited in the Code is the Nyūko (or Chichiko: literally, the Household for Milk), regulating the breeding and milking of milk cows. It was established under article 44 of the Shiki’inryō on the Ten’yakuryō (Bureau for Medicine). In fact, as in all nonnomadic East Asia, milk was produced for therapeutic purposes rather than as ordinary food and it was also used for other dairy therapeutic products, such as so 蘇(or 酥), and raku 酪."
As for the "ox bezoars" mentioned by Leonardo Wolfe, here are the citations. (I translated this as 'gallstones of cattle.')
《文武二年（六九八）正月己巳（八）》○己巳。土左国献牛黄。Monmu 2.1.8 [February 23, 698]
Tosa Province presented medicine made from the gallstones of cattle.
《文武二年（六九九）十一月乙酉（廿九）》○乙酉。下総国献牛黄。Monmu 2.11.29 [January 5, 699]
Shimōsa Province presented medicine made from the gallstones of cattle.
Also, I looked back at my Shoku Nihongi translations to see where I translated 牛 with the word 'cow.' Here they are:
《慶雲三年（七〇六）是年》◎是年。天下諸国疫疾。百姓多死。始作土牛大儺。
This year, throughout the realm in many provinces there was epidemic disease. Many farmers died. For the first time evil spirits were exorcised by making cows of clay.
《和銅六年（七一三）五月丁亥（廿五）》○丁亥。始令山背国点乳牛戸五十戸。
Wadō 6.5.25 (June 22, 713)
For the first time Yamashiro Province was ordered to appoint fifty families of milk cow breeders.
《天平十三年（七四一）二月戊午【壬子朔七】》○二月戊午。詔曰。馬牛代人。勤労養人。因茲。先有明制。不許屠殺。今聞。国郡未能禁止。百姓猶有屠殺。宜其有犯者。不問蔭贖。先決杖一百。然後科罪。又聞。国郡司等、非縁公事。聚人田猟。妨民産業。損害実多。自今以後。宜令禁断。更有犯者、必擬重科。
Tenpyō 13.2.7 (February 26, 741)
Imperial edict: “Horses and
cows are raised since they are more useful than people in transporting things.
Thus previously it was made clear that butchering them is not allowed. Recently
We have heard that this practice has not stopped in the provinces and
districts, and the people continue to butcher these animals. Those guilty of
this offense, regardless of whether they are able to pay a fine, shall first be
given one hundred blows of the cane and then made to pay."
And here's where I used 'cattle':
天平宝字五年（七六一）十月辛酉【十】○辛酉。遣従五位上上毛野公広浜。外従五位下広田連小床。六位已下官六人。造遣唐使船四隻於安芸国。仰東海。東山。北陸。山陰。山陽。南海等道諸国。貢牛角七千八百隻。初高元度自唐帰日。唐帝語之曰。属禄山乱離。兵器多亡。今欲作弓。交要牛角。聞道。本国多有牛角。卿帰国。為求使次相贈。故有此儲焉。
Tenpyō Hōji 5.10.10 辛酉 kanoto-tori
[November 11, 761]
Jr 5 Upper Kamitsukeno no Kimi Hirohama and Outer Jr 5 Lower Hirota no Muraji Otoko and six officials of sixth rank and lower were sent to Aki Province to construct four ships for the embassy to Tang.
The provinces of Tōkaidō, Tōsandō, Hokurikudō, San’indō, San’yōdō, and Nankaidō were ordered to present seven thousand eight hundred head of cattle as tribute. On the day that Ko Gendo returned from Tang, he brought a message from the Chinese emperor saying “Due to the recent rebellion of An Lushan, our military supplies have been depleted. Now we seek the horns of cattle for making bows. We have heard that in your country horned cattle are plentiful. When the emissary returns home, we ask that for our sake you send cattle horns with your next embassy.” This is in preparation for that mission.
神護景雲元年（七六七）八月庚子【廿三】○庚子。散位正七位上秦忌寸真成献銭二千貫。牛十頭。授外従五位下。
Jingo Keiun 1.8.23 庚子 kanoe-ne
[September 20, 767]
Scattered Rank Sr 7 Upper Hada no Imiki Manari presented two thousand strings of coins and ten head of cattle. He was awarded Outer Jr 5 Lower Rank.
Also, the personal name 'Ushikai' 牛養 is extremely common in the 8th century.
Just BTW my translations of Shoku Nihongi from 697 to 770 are all available on Amazon. Although of course in all humility I do hate to toot my own horn....
Amazon.com: Ross Bender: books, biography, latest update
Ross Bender
Kate Wildman Nakai
Jul 11, 2024, 1:33:36 PM (11 days ago) Jul 11
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Dear All,
This is indeed a fascinating discussion, with many twists across the centuries. As an ironic footnote to the stories of the horrors aroused by Townsend Harris’s fondness for milk, one late Edo promoter of milk-drinking was Tokugawa Nariaki of
Mito, better known as a promoter of sonnō jōi. Nariaki evidently saw milk as having medicinal properties (which fits with what Ross points out in his most recent post). Mito purchased fourteen head of cattle from Nanbu domain in 1841 and raised them along
with horses in two pastures. Milk from the cows was passed on to the medical section of the domain school, which used the milk as is or processed it as gyūraku 牛酪; both were evidently used as medicine (Mito-shi shi, chūkan 3, p. 467).
Shogun starting with Yoshimune also seem to have promoted milk. According to the Japan Dairy Association (https://www.j-milk.jp/digitalarchives/detail/C0850.html),
in 1792 Tokugawa Ienari directed a shogunal doctor named 桃井源寅
(evidently the name is read Momonoi Minamotonoin) to publish a short treatise about the benefits of milk and gyūraku: 白牛酪考. Those with access to NDL digital, can see it there. There’s also a copy at Waseda.
As I tried to find out just what raku is, I came across an article by Tōno Haruyuki and Ikeyama Noriyuki titled 日本古代の蘇と酪.
http://repo.nara-u.ac.jp/modules/xoonips/download.php/AN00181569-19811200-1003.pdf?file_id=1070. I can’t say that I read it closely, but towards the end they have a chart of various hypotheses advanced by different scholars, and the consensus seems to be
that raku is a kind of fermented drink. Maybe something like Calpis or Yakult?
Kate Wildman Nakai
2024/07/11 10:15、Thomas D. Conlan <tco...@princeton.edu>のメール:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/F51D9A0C-D571-4987-A11F-CFDE6C560BB7%40princeton.edu.
Leonardo Wolfe
Jul 11, 2024, 1:34:00 PM (11 days ago) Jul 11
to PMJS: Listserv
Dear Ross,
Since my last reply, the meaning of this "auspicious omen" has been bothering me somewhat. I then wondered if it had a connection to Ukemochi's death and the creation of oxen and horses from her head (as recorded in the Nihon Shoki). After reaching a bit of a dead-end with this theory, I subsequently searched for the original passage to see if I could find anything relevant. As a result, I then found this (the relevant passage is mentioned on p. 14), which then led me to this.
As a side note, I had also considered Gozu and Mezu, but the connection appears tenuous at best.
Anyway, good luck with your project!
Kind regards.
Leonardo Wolfe
BSc (Hons) (SOAS) - International Management (Japan & Korea)
MA Student (SOAS) - Buddhist Studies and Intensive Language (Japanese)
BSc (Hons) (SOAS) - International Management (Japan & Korea)
MA Student (SOAS) - Buddhist Studies and Intensive Language (Japanese)
Jordan Sand
Jul 12, 2024, 5:56:34 AM (10 days ago) Jul 12
to pm...@googlegroups.com
Colleagues,
Kate Nakai's story of milk promotion in Mito and her intriguing speculation that 酪 was a precursor of Calpis or Yakult sent me hopefully to Wikipedia to see if the founder-inventors might have had a connection to Mito, but unfortunately none emerged. I did find a brief report by dairy scientist Hirata Masahiro (open access here) on experiments to reproduce 酪, 蘇, and a third product called 蘓, all of which he claims were quite different things. This last, he says, appears in the Engishiki and became the preferred tribute product because it kept well for the long trip to the capital. It sounds a little like Mongolian curd cheese. He also says that these milk products died out with court culture in the Nanboku-chō era.
Incidentally, Hikone is said to have provided beef to the shogunate as a medicinal food.
I was fascinated to see the imperial edict of Tenpyō 13.2.7 that Ross Bender provided us from his translation of the Shoku Nihongi, to the effect that butchering of cattle was forbidden because they transported things for people. I have seen similar edicts quoted elsewhere from Tang China (which I would guess to be the source for the Japanese edict too). This points to a tradition of moral injunctions against eating draft animals, a quite distinct explanation for the rarity of beef before Meiji from the common reference to Tenmu's prohibition of meat-eating. The idea that an animal should not be eaten because it has social utility struck some modern Westerners as odd--something I wrote a bit about in an article a couple of years ago on pigs. Here is an English ship's captain in 1845 describing the Nagasaki bugyō's response to his request for beef:
On enquiring, why they could not supply these cattle, instead of hogs, they observed “The Japanese do not eat Cows, they do their duty, they bear calves, they give milk, it is sinful to take it, they require it to rear their calves, and because they do this they are not allowed to work. The Bulls do their work; they labour at the plough, they get thin, you cannot eat them, it is not just to kill a beast which does its duty, but the hogs are indolent, lazy, do not work, they are proper for food.” ( Edward Belcher, Narrative of the Voyage of H.M.S. Samarang, During the Years 1843-46).
Jordan Sand
Kate Nakai's story of milk promotion in Mito and her intriguing speculation that 酪 was a precursor of Calpis or Yakult sent me hopefully to Wikipedia to see if the founder-inventors might have had a connection to Mito, but unfortunately none emerged. I did find a brief report by dairy scientist Hirata Masahiro (open access here) on experiments to reproduce 酪, 蘇, and a third product called 蘓, all of which he claims were quite different things. This last, he says, appears in the Engishiki and became the preferred tribute product because it kept well for the long trip to the capital. It sounds a little like Mongolian curd cheese. He also says that these milk products died out with court culture in the Nanboku-chō era.
Incidentally, Hikone is said to have provided beef to the shogunate as a medicinal food.
I was fascinated to see the imperial edict of Tenpyō 13.2.7 that Ross Bender provided us from his translation of the Shoku Nihongi, to the effect that butchering of cattle was forbidden because they transported things for people. I have seen similar edicts quoted elsewhere from Tang China (which I would guess to be the source for the Japanese edict too). This points to a tradition of moral injunctions against eating draft animals, a quite distinct explanation for the rarity of beef before Meiji from the common reference to Tenmu's prohibition of meat-eating. The idea that an animal should not be eaten because it has social utility struck some modern Westerners as odd--something I wrote a bit about in an article a couple of years ago on pigs. Here is an English ship's captain in 1845 describing the Nagasaki bugyō's response to his request for beef:
On enquiring, why they could not supply these cattle, instead of hogs, they observed “The Japanese do not eat Cows, they do their duty, they bear calves, they give milk, it is sinful to take it, they require it to rear their calves, and because they do this they are not allowed to work. The Bulls do their work; they labour at the plough, they get thin, you cannot eat them, it is not just to kill a beast which does its duty, but the hogs are indolent, lazy, do not work, they are proper for food.” ( Edward Belcher, Narrative of the Voyage of H.M.S. Samarang, During the Years 1843-46).
Jordan Sand
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/B425137E-EB29-4301-9AC4-7B939EA71341%40sophia.ac.jp.
--
Jordan Sand
Professor of Japanese History, Georgetown University
Distinguished Visiting Professor, Kokugakuin University
--
Jordan Sand
Professor of Japanese History, Georgetown University
Distinguished Visiting Professor, Kokugakuin University
Raji Steineck
Jul 12, 2024, 5:56:40 AM (10 days ago) Jul 12
to pm...@googlegroups.com
Dear all,
thanks to all participants for a fascinating discussion. I am happy to see that Manieri's translation of the pertinent Ritsuryō chapter highlighted here. Let me just add that our Journal
Asiatische Studien/Études Asiatiques continues to welcome high quality, scholarly translations of Japanese source texts and/or seminal Japanese scholarly and theoretical contributions.
Kind regards,
Raji Steineck
Von: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> im Auftrag von Ross Bender <rosslyn...@gmail.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2024 16:53
An: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com>
Betreff: Re: [PMJS] Cattle in Ancient Japan
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juli 2024 16:53
An: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com>
Betreff: Re: [PMJS] Cattle in Ancient Japan
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Susan Tsumura
Jul 12, 2024, 8:57:31 AM (10 days ago) Jul 12
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About prohibition of eating cattle:
Hideyoshi in his 1587 anti-Christian message to Cohello (sp?) said something similar.
Why do you eat horses and cattle? That is against reason. Horses alleviate people's labor by carrying loads and serving in battle, and cattle are tools for farmers to plow fields.
Cohelo answered that they did not eat horses, but in Europe they raised cattle in particular for the purpose of eating, so it did not interfere with farm work. In Japan the Jesuits normally ate as Japanese did, so usually had beef only with Portuguese, but people sold cattle to Portuguese merchants (Frois Nihon-shi, Vol. 1, Ch. 16).
Susan Tsumura
P.S. By the way, when we reply perhaps we could leave out the repeated PMJS information at the bottom. In a long discussion it is hard to find what is being said.
> 2024/07/12 18:29 JST に Jordan Sand <sa...@georgetown.edu> が次のように書きました:
Hideyoshi in his 1587 anti-Christian message to Cohello (sp?) said something similar.
Why do you eat horses and cattle? That is against reason. Horses alleviate people's labor by carrying loads and serving in battle, and cattle are tools for farmers to plow fields.
Cohelo answered that they did not eat horses, but in Europe they raised cattle in particular for the purpose of eating, so it did not interfere with farm work. In Japan the Jesuits normally ate as Japanese did, so usually had beef only with Portuguese, but people sold cattle to Portuguese merchants (Frois Nihon-shi, Vol. 1, Ch. 16).
Susan Tsumura
P.S. By the way, when we reply perhaps we could leave out the repeated PMJS information at the bottom. In a long discussion it is hard to find what is being said.
> 2024/07/12 18:29 JST に Jordan Sand <sa...@georgetown.edu> が次のように書きました:
Leonardo Wolfe
Jul 14, 2024, 7:31:13 PM (8 days ago) Jul 14
to PMJS: Listserv
Dear members,
I hope that I'm not inundating you with responses, but I just wanted to share a final few additional areas of exploration in my search for a meaning behind the use of the term "auspicious omen".
The first concerns the use of Ushiuma (牛馬) in Obon festivals, with a cursory search suggesting that they have a relationship with Tanabata-uma (七夕馬). A subsequent search of this term, curiously, presents a primary result that specifically concerns Chiba Prefecture (see here). As for why this may be the case, according to various websites, Chiba Prefecture is quite unique in its provincewide adoption of creating these animal effigies, yet, despite this, I was unable reconcile the time periods, and thus met another dead-end.
The second area concerns shrine records from the Engishiki, with a list of the relevant shrines being available here. After subsequently checking the relevant lists of enshrined deities, the closest connection that I could find to Ukemochi is Ukanomitama, with this deity being enshrined at Akitomi Shrine. I cannot, however, find the same 'oxen/cattle and horses' link with this deity. Additionally, whilst there is a local horse story/festival (see here) that's connected to Ototachibanahime, there appears to be no relevant mention of bovines.
In a last-ditch attempt, I also looked at my copy of 'Auspicious Animals: The Art of Good Omens', by Jun'ichi Uchiyama, but here the issue is that all of the featured relevant examples feature horns or antlers to some degree, making them far less subtle than the animal that was presented to the court.
Ultimately, whilst I'm probably going to have to resign myself to accepting it as an unsolved mystery, it still begs the question, why did the conspirators think that it would be a good idea, and also one that would be well-received by the court? Additionally, what made it both "auspicious" and an "omen"? For example, we know that several centuries later, in China, giraffes held some sway as they were confused with the mythical qilin, and that this association made its way into the Japanese and Korean vocabulary, where it still remains, but I have failed, thus far, to find any mythical significance, here, beyond casual relationships and my own conjecture.
On a sperate note, this book, and this article, may be of some use when it comes to the topic of horses in the 8th century, with the book, in particular, specifically on Chiba prefecture.
I hope that I'm not inundating you with responses, but I just wanted to share a final few additional areas of exploration in my search for a meaning behind the use of the term "auspicious omen".
The first concerns the use of Ushiuma (牛馬) in Obon festivals, with a cursory search suggesting that they have a relationship with Tanabata-uma (七夕馬). A subsequent search of this term, curiously, presents a primary result that specifically concerns Chiba Prefecture (see here). As for why this may be the case, according to various websites, Chiba Prefecture is quite unique in its provincewide adoption of creating these animal effigies, yet, despite this, I was unable reconcile the time periods, and thus met another dead-end.
The second area concerns shrine records from the Engishiki, with a list of the relevant shrines being available here. After subsequently checking the relevant lists of enshrined deities, the closest connection that I could find to Ukemochi is Ukanomitama, with this deity being enshrined at Akitomi Shrine. I cannot, however, find the same 'oxen/cattle and horses' link with this deity. Additionally, whilst there is a local horse story/festival (see here) that's connected to Ototachibanahime, there appears to be no relevant mention of bovines.
In a last-ditch attempt, I also looked at my copy of 'Auspicious Animals: The Art of Good Omens', by Jun'ichi Uchiyama, but here the issue is that all of the featured relevant examples feature horns or antlers to some degree, making them far less subtle than the animal that was presented to the court.
Ultimately, whilst I'm probably going to have to resign myself to accepting it as an unsolved mystery, it still begs the question, why did the conspirators think that it would be a good idea, and also one that would be well-received by the court? Additionally, what made it both "auspicious" and an "omen"? For example, we know that several centuries later, in China, giraffes held some sway as they were confused with the mythical qilin, and that this association made its way into the Japanese and Korean vocabulary, where it still remains, but I have failed, thus far, to find any mythical significance, here, beyond casual relationships and my own conjecture.
On a sperate note, this book, and this article, may be of some use when it comes to the topic of horses in the 8th century, with the book, in particular, specifically on Chiba prefecture.
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