Etchū governor Yoshikiyo and his rebellion

22 views
Skip to first unread message

Dennis Darling

unread,
Oct 17, 2022, 12:03:39 PM10/17/22
to pm...@googlegroups.com

Dear all, 

The Uesugi-ke Monjo collection contains a Nagao genealogy according to which Uesugi Noriaki (1306-68) sent his deputy, Nagao Kagetada (?-?), to the Hokuriku region in order to suppress enemy strongholds ‘at the time of Etchū governor Yoshikiyo’s rebellion’ (越中国司吉清謀叛). 

I have been struggling with identifying Yoshikiyo and also been unable to establish if there really was a ‘rebellion’ in the Hokuriku region at the time (that is, at some point before 1368 but not before 1335, since the Uesugi were not involved in the region before the Nakasendai rebellion of that year).  

Who was Yoshikiyo? Is anything at all known about his ‘rebellion’? 

Can anyone help me with the answers to these questions? 

Best Regards, 

Dennis Darling 


GUELBERG Niels

unread,
Oct 17, 2022, 5:10:58 PM10/17/22
to pm...@googlegroups.com
Dear Dennis,
genealogies are a difficult field.

Often they are written by professionals on request of the families, and these professionals mix facts with fiction. 
If you have no proof from an independent source, you should doubt all information from your genealogy as fake. 

I would start with the names of your genealogy: if you can find the graveyard of the Nagao family, you may find the names, age and death year of the deceased on the back of the grave stones.

Niels

差出人: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> が Dennis Darling <dd...@hotmail.com> の代理で送信
送信日時: 2022年10月18日 1:02
宛先: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com>
件名: [PMJS] Etchū governor Yoshikiyo and his rebellion
 
--
PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
To post to the list, email pm...@googlegroups.com
For the PMJS Terms of Use and more resources, please visit www.pmjs.org.
Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PMJS: Listserv" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pmjs+uns...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/DB9PR03MB7258B990E2A497562F5A1CBAB0299%40DB9PR03MB7258.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com.

Ivan Tyulenev

unread,
Oct 24, 2022, 1:37:33 AM10/24/22
to pm...@googlegroups.com

Dear Doctor Darling,


I am sorry for such a delayed reply. Your questions excited me to a huge extent, and I did some research.

Even if you might already have found profound answers on your own, I would like to introduce some of my assumptions. 


It seems that author(s) of the document from the Uesugi ke monjo miswrote both the name and the official position of the person mentioned. 


According to the list of kokushi, Etchū province had no governor since 1336. The last kokushi known is Nakanoin Sadakiyo (中院定清, ?-1336) who died in a battle for Sekidōsan castle against Inoue Toshikiyo (井上俊清, ?-?), the Etchū shugo, or the constable of Etchū*. These events are briefly mentioned in the Taiheiki 14:6.


Toshikiyo was among other local leaders who rebelled against the Kenmu Regime and its officials at the end of 1335 and then got some support from the Ashikaga clan. The struggle between Sadakiyo from the middle-ranked court noble family and Toshikiyo from Shinano-based Seiwa genji warrior house in some way reflects the outcomes of political tension between kokushi and shugo of the Kenmu Regime described in detail by Professor Goble (1996). The tension might result in efficiency if it was peacefully mediated.     


What is special about Toshikiyo, is that his personal name in the Taiheiki is written not as 俊清, but as 利清. First kanji from the Taiheiki version (利) as ateji or nanori may be also read as yoshi. That is why I suppose that compiler(s) of the Uesugi ke monjo just misread 利 and rewrote it as 吉, implying the name of Inoue Toshikiyo. Although in the Taiheiki he is regarded as shugo, not kokushi of Etchū province, this mistake might occur since in previous times there were some similarities in spelling of the two terms, ~守護 and ~守. 


Also we have to understand why Nagao Saemonjō Kagetada (長尾左衛門尉景忠, ?-?) was sent to supress rebellious Toshikiyo by Uesugi Noriaki (上杉憲顕, 1306-68), at that time a loyal supporter of the Ashikaga cause. We have no evidence that any battle between Toshikiyo and Kagetada occurred. Moreover, according to this page, Nagao keizu from the Nochi kagami describes how Kagetada joined Toshikiyo, took part in the siege of Sekidōsan castle and was rewarded by Ashikaga for the “war achievements”.  


Since such sources as family genealogy, as Professor Guelberg stated, should be considered unreliable, we can not be sure if Kagetada actually departed to Etchū, had any achievements or got any rewards. Here further investigation is needed, but I assume that there was no subjugation of rebels at all, even if the announced aim of his departure or the aim which compiler(s) of the Uesugi ke monjo might seek to construct was the pacification of rebels, enemies of the Throne”, though both Kagetada and his superior at that time were considered rebels as well.


I am sorry for the huge message and hope that you find here something worth your research!


*P.S.: There is one vague detail about the title of Toshikiyo at the end of 1335. Author(s) of the page about history of Sekidōsan castle argue(s) that the position of Etchū shugo at the time was held by another warrior, the constable of Noto province Yoshimi Yoritaka (吉見頼隆, ?-?). Actual power of Toshikiyo might be comparable to the power of shugo, that is why he was regarded as Etchū shugo in various sources such as the Taiheiki. The page dedicated to the Noto Yoshimi family history mentioned that Yoritaka was appointed Etchū shugo in 1334 and held the position for 1-2 years. Finally, another site on the same topic notices that Yoritaka appears as Etchū shugo also in 1336-37. Therewith I have found no confirmation that Toshikiyo had the position of Etchū shugo before 1337 except the passage from the Taiheiki, which credibility is not very high especially when it comes to names and ranks.


I have no access to the official documentation, but it seems that some mistake ocurred not only in the Uesugi ke monjo, but also in the Taiheiki or in our understanding of the Taiheiki. Perhaps, the words 越中国守護普門蔵人利清 might be better to interpret not as Constable of Etchū province [...] Toshikiyo”, but as “Constable of Etchū province [Yoritaka and also ...] Toshikiyo”. If so, we can deepen our understanding of political dynamics in the Hokuriku region. If Yoritaka was Etchū shugo, he had to deal not only with Kenmu officials as Sadakiyo, but also with local leaders as Toshikiyo. As soon as in 1344-47 Toshikiyo and Yoritaka engaged in various battles seeking to gain control over Noto and Etchū provinces. Thereby I assume that their rivalry might begin even before open confrontation, during their service for the Ashikaga cause between 1335 and 1344.


In any case, I suppose that the actual meaning of the “Etchū governor Yoshikiyo's rebelion” phrase from the Uesugi ke monjo is “Etchū constable Yoshimi Yoritaka and Inoue Toshikiyo's rebelion”.


пн, 17 окт. 2022 г. в 19:03, Dennis Darling <dd...@hotmail.com>:
--
PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
To post to the list, email pm...@googlegroups.com
For the PMJS Terms of Use and more resources, please visit www.pmjs.org.
Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PMJS: Listserv" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pmjs+uns...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/DB9PR03MB7258B990E2A497562F5A1CBAB0299%40DB9PR03MB7258.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com.


--
Best wishes,
Ivan Tyulenev
--
С уважением,
Иван Тюленев

председатель Ассоциации «Химавари»
руководитель проекта «Повесть об Императоре»

8 (915) 480-40-13

Dennis Darling

unread,
Oct 25, 2022, 7:47:09 AM10/25/22
to pm...@googlegroups.com
Thank you to everyone for your reponses, both on and off list.

Fra: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> på vegne af Ivan Tyulenev <tyulen...@gmail.com>
Sendt: 24. oktober 2022 07:15
Til: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com>
Emne: Re: [PMJS] Etchū governor Yoshikiyo and his rebellion
 
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages