「百済」: "Kudara" v. "Paekche"/"Baekje"/"Hyakusai"

[JL Badgley]

Greetings, everyone,

Forgive me if this is a simple thing and I am just not looking in the right places, but I was wondering, given the recent discussion of "The Kingly House of Paekche" and the Nimna/Imna/Mimana discussion, if there were any sources that I might be pointed to on the origin of the name "Kudara" for the land we know of today as Paekche (or Baekje, depending on romanistaiton:  百済).

This has always struck me as odd because at least with most of the Japanese v. Korean names I can see the derivation:

Kara / Kaya (加倻)
Shiragi / Silla (新羅)
Kouma / Koryŏ (高麗)

”Kudara", though, doesn't seem to fit anything that I can find and just appears to be another name for Paekche.  One would assume that the reading "Hyakusai" would be more common, and even if we were to assume a different pronunciation based on the contemporary Chinese pronunciation, it seems like it would be a stretch to get to "Kudara" from there.  Yet I regularly see that as the assumed pronunciation of「百済」 in various translations of things like the Kojiki.  And then we have things like personal names and Kudara-ji--though the temple is connected to the personal name, so is this just something similar?

The ever-so-reliable Wikipedia seems to suggest that the reading first shows up in 『図書寮本類聚名義抄』 in the 11th century (and is probably "Kutara" v. "Kudara").   Is there any good source for why it is pronounced "Kudara" in Japanese or even how old that pronunciation really is?  Is there anything on the peninsula that would suggest a derivation from something else--much like "Kara" became the general term for things from the continent, and particularly China, long after "Kara" no longer existed.

Regards,

Joshua Badgley

[Alexander Vovin]

Dear Dr. Badgley,

The etymology of Kudara is totally obscure. The pronunciation of the time was [ku᷈dara] or [kuⁿdara]. Yes, the Ruijū Myōgishō has Kutara LLL (L = low pitch), but this is late and not very reliable. Wamyōshō has clearly Kuⁿdara (久太良), but the Heian period man'yōgana may be questionable. As far as I can tell, there are no phonographic attestations of Kudara in the Kojiki, and there are tons of attestations in the Nihonshoki. However, checking whether there are any in the phonographic script, will require at least a day or two of work. I don't have this luxury at the moment, and I don't have a complete electronic version of the Nihon shoki. If you are really interested to find out, you should arm yourself with the Nihonshoki edition in 新訂増補國史大系 and 日本書紀索引, which is tuned to this, both from the 吉川弘文館. The placename Kudara found in Japan, is attested twice in the Man'yōshū (2.199 and 8.1413), but neither is phonographic. The kakikudashi found in the earliest manuscripts exists only in the Ruijū Koshū and only for 8.1431, where it says くたら in the sōsho script, but one should keep in mind that: a) the Ruijū Koshū is almost one century later than the Ruijū Myōgishō, and b) it uses nigori sign extremely rarely. Hope this helps,

Alexander Vovin
Membre élu d'Academia Europaea
Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon, de la Corée et de l'Asie centrale

ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES;

CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE

Membre associé de CENTRE DE RECHERCHES SUR LE JAPON

Laureate of 2015 Japanese Institute for Humanities Prize for a Foreign Scholar

Editor-in-chief, series Languages of Asia, Brill

Co-editor, of International Journal of Eurasian Linguistics, Brill

PI of the ERC Advanced Project, AN ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY OF THE JAPONIC LANGUAGES

105 Blvd Raspail, 75006 Paris

sasha...@gmail.com
https://ehess.academia.edu/AlexanderVovin

https://www.edj-vovin.com/

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[Michael Jamentz]

Hello All,

Pure speculation and I suspect it would be next to impossible to verify the dating, but the folks at 百済寺 in Shiga/Ōmi thinks their name is Hyakusaiji so perhaps the temple tradition predates the Kudara/Kutara reading. 

Best,

m jamentz

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[S. Tsumura]

There is a downloadable version of the Nihon Shoki at http://www.kikuchi2.com/jodai/shokiall.html
There are many references to 百済, but glancing through I did not find any with the pronunciation. Presumably it was not necessary.

Susan Tsumura

[Alexander Vovin]

Very unlikely, as normally native and quasi-native placenames precede the sinified ones. In Japan there was never a deliberate government campaign to replace native names with Sinitic ones, therefore we still have plenty of native placenames, but in Korea there was such a campaign, organized by king Kyŏngdŏk in 8th c. United Silla. As a result, practically no native placenames remain in Korea since, with one exception: Seoul (MK syeWur).

Alexander Vovin
Membre élu d'Academia Europaea
Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon, de la Corée et de l'Asie centrale

ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES;

CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE

Membre associé de CENTRE DE RECHERCHES SUR LE JAPON

Laureate of 2015 Japanese Institute for Humanities Prize for a Foreign Scholar

Editor-in-chief, series Languages of Asia, Brill

Co-editor, of International Journal of Eurasian Linguistics, Brill

PI of the ERC Advanced Project, AN ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY OF THE JAPONIC LANGUAGES

105 Blvd Raspail, 75006 Paris

sasha...@gmail.com
https://ehess.academia.edu/AlexanderVovin

https://www.edj-vovin.com/

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[JL Badgley]

Thank you, everyone.  This gives me something to think about.

A quick note:  Mr. is fine.  As much as I appreciate it, I have no doctorate and do not wish to have anyone think I am claiming such.

Dr. Vovin, I really appreciate your response.  I was afraid that such might be the case, but when I saw the people replying here I thought that maybe I was missing something.  Of course, now I'm also looking at picking up more books or finding an institution where I can go through them.  I'll keep my eyes peeled as I'm going through the texts to see if I notice anything.  

Dr. Jamentz, thank you for that lead on Hyakusai-ji.  It led me down a rabbithole of the history that they have online.  I am quite curious what they would say:  they seem to claim founding back to Shotoku Taishi, the Koguryo priest Eiji/Hyeja (恵慈), and the Paekche priest Kanroku/Gwalleuk (観勒).  And of course:  Thank you, Japan, for having both a 百済寺　（(ひゃくさいじ) in Shiga and a 百済時 (くだらじ) in Nara, because that isn't at all confusing.  ;)

And of course, if anyone has other suggestions, I'm all ears.

Regards,

Joshua Badgley

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[Alexander Vovin]

Dear Dr. Tsumura,

Thank you so much! This is extremely helpful.

All the best wishes,

Alexander Vovin
Membre élu d'Academia Europaea
Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon, de la Corée et de l'Asie centrale

ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES;

CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE

Membre associé de CENTRE DE RECHERCHES SUR LE JAPON

Laureate of 2015 Japanese Institute for Humanities Prize for a Foreign Scholar

Editor-in-chief, series Languages of Asia, Brill

Co-editor, of International Journal of Eurasian Linguistics, Brill

PI of the ERC Advanced Project, AN ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY OF THE JAPONIC LANGUAGES

105 Blvd Raspail, 75006 Paris

sasha...@gmail.com
https://ehess.academia.edu/AlexanderVovin

https://www.edj-vovin.com/

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