Reccomendations on Translations of the Kojiki and Nihonshoki for Volunteers?
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Oaden, Arthur
Dec 19, 2020, 12:52:37 PM12/19/20
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I am interested in getting some advice on good recommendations on the Kojiki and Nihon Shoki. I am grateful for your time and attention.
I have seen a few comments on them, but the ideal edition is one suitable for volunteers and docents at a Museum, many of whom may not be Japan specialists and may not understand Japanese. Something that has the kind of contextual and explanatory information
suitable for them would be ideal. This Museum, the Texas State Museum of Asian Cultures, has an extensive collection of paintings and Hakata Dolls depicting Japanese life and culture. Some of these reference Japanese deities, and Japanese legends from the
Nihonshoki and Kojiki, so it often comes down to the volunteers to handle tours and explanations and run educational programs.
I currently volunteer for this Museum and primarily assist them with advice and assist them with their Twitter and Instagram accounts; I previously served as Trustee from 2013-14.
The Kojiki: An Account of Ancient Matters translated by Heldt explains things a bit, it sounds like. A heavy emphasis on translation instead of transliteration. I imagine this could be
helpful, what do you think?
There also seem to be various Basil Hall Chamberlain editions but some of those might be confusing given the large amounts of Latin used if a volunteer does not realize the purpose (!).
I have seen a lot of positive statements about the Aston translation of the Nihongi, I don’t know how accessible it is. There also appear to be other translations, including a Basil Hall Chamberlain translation.
I welcome your comments!
Thanks, Arthur Oaden, Volunteer
Marzia Vettorato
Dec 19, 2020, 1:54:51 PM12/19/20
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Dear Arthur,
In my personal experience, I found the Donald Philippi's translation of the Kojiki way more easy to use and complete, if compared to Chamberlain's one (which is a great work anyway). If you have the occasion, take a look!
Marzia Vettorato
Ph.D. Student, "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) - "Sapienza" University, Rome
博士課程の学生 「アジアとアフリカの文明」(日本宗教)
イタリア東洋研究学科
サピエンツァ•ローマ大学
Ph.D. Student, "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) - "Sapienza" University, Rome
博士課程の学生 「アジアとアフリカの文明」(日本宗教)
イタリア東洋研究学科
サピエンツァ•ローマ大学
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JL Badgley
Dec 19, 2020, 7:40:43 PM12/19/20
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If I might chime in, I agree with Marzia Vettorato. While I like Heldt, I find he goes almost too far. The translation is useful, but often he is translating even names, so that instead of "Amaterasu" you have "Heaven Shining". He does have a glossary where he transforms "Heaven Shining" back to "Amaterasu", but that's an extra step.
Compare the opening of Book 2 (on Jimmu):
Heldt: "The mighty one Boulder Hamlet Lad of Sacred Yamato dwelt in the mighty halls of Thousand Rice Ears Tall with his older brother, the mighty one Hallowed Harvest, and took counsel with him, saying:"Philippi: "KAMU-YAMATÖ-IPARE-BIKO-NÖ-MIKÖTÖ, dwelling with his elder brother ITU-SE-NÖ-MIKÖTÖ in the palace of TAKA-TI-PO, consulted him and said:"Chamberlain: "The two Deities His Augustness Kamu-yamato-ihare-biko and his elder brother His Augustness Itsu-se dwelling in the palace of Takachiho took counsel saying:"
Of the three, I like Philippi for comprehension. I think Heldt is good to get a feel for the stories (and he doesn't shy away from some of the racier topics). Chamberlain is dated in places and has the annoying habit of his day of dropping into Latin for anything considered too salacious. Also, Philippi has nice, relatively clear notes--both footnotes and an appendix of long form notes on different aspects. And he provides a system to reference different areas of the text. It is my go-to, with Heldt and Chamberlain used for comparison (and I think it is the same one as used up at JHTI, so that is helpful for finding things like the original text: https://jhti.berkeley.edu/Kojiki.html).
I'm not aware of another translation of the Nihon Shoki beyond Aston's. I did fine one that listed the author as simply "Yasumaro no O", but it turned out to be just Aston's translation without any of the notes, which might be less intimidating for some as it does slim down the work, overall, but I would rather have the notes for when I want them. Aston also has that annoying habit of slipping into Latin just as things start to heat up in the text, but I'm not sure there is much to be done about that.
Regards,
Joshua Badgley
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Alexander Vovin
Dec 19, 2020, 7:40:43 PM12/19/20
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I also find Philippi's translation of the Kojiki better than Chamberlain. Aston remains the translation of the Nihonshoki. It was reprinted by Tuttle, so probably it should be available -- check their website. John Bentley was working on the new Nihonshoki translation for many years, but I dunno how close he is to the completion. There are also Russian translations of both books, and a French translation of the Kojiki by Pierre Vinclair.
Alexander Vovin
Membre élu d'Academia Europaea
Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon et de l'Asie du Nord-EstECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES;
CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE
sasha...@gmail.com
https://ehess.academia.edu/AlexanderVovin
Alexander Vovin
Membre élu d'Academia Europaea
Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon et de l'Asie du Nord-Est
Membre associé de CENTRE DE RECHERCHES SUR LE JAPON
Laureate of 2015 Japanese Institute for Humanities Prize for a Foreign Scholar
Editor-in-chief, series Languages of Asia, Brill
Co-editor, of International Journal of Eurasian Linguistics, Brill
PI of the ERC Advanced Project, AN ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY OF THE JAPONIC LANGUAGES
105 Blvd Raspail, 75006 Parishttps://ehess.academia.edu/AlexanderVovin
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Robert F Wittkamp
Dec 19, 2020, 7:40:43 PM12/19/20
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Dear Mr. Oaden,
unfortunately, I can only answer with regard to Kojiki translations. If you are only interested in the content, the new translation by Heldt is the first choice. It is based on the edition by Yamaguchi and Kōnoshi (Shinpen Nihon koten bungaku zenshū), i.e. on the latest research. However, it has no annotations, and the translation of names is often irritating. Chamberlain's translation is available on the internet, if explanations are needed (and they are ...). To be absolutely sure, the annotated translation by Philippi can also be consulted, depending on the question of how deep you want to go.
Robert Wittkamp
2020/12/20 2:52、Oaden, Arthur <oad...@buckeyemail.osu.edu>のメール:
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Kate Wildman Nakai
Dec 20, 2020, 1:05:38 PM12/20/20
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Dear Colleagues,
This may be an opportune occasion to alert PMJS readers to an ambitious project at Kokugakuin University to collate resources on the Kojiki and make them widely available. Called Kojikigaku/Studies on the Kojiki and headed by Professor Taniguchi Masahiro, it is primarily in Japanese but has an English component in which Professor Hirafuji Kikuko, a specialist on comparative mythology, has played a key role.
The project has its own dedicated website: http://kojiki.kokugakuin.ac.jp and puts out an annual print periodical, Kojikigaku, which contains ongoing installments of the original Kojiki text, a modern Japanese translation, and extensive annotation of the passages in question. What is particularly valuable about the annotation is that it brings together a range of opinions from commentators over the ages about terms and points of interpretation. The sixth issue of Kojikigaku came out this year and issue 7 should appear in spring next year. From issue 3 there has also been an English translation of the original Kojiki text and the annotation. PDFs of all the issues are available on the website under the tab 成果公開. In addition to the PDFs, an elaborate online collation of the original text, modern Japanese translation, annotation, English translation to date, and other resources (including visual materials) can also be accessed via the 古事記ビユーアー tab.
Much of the material made available by the project may be too technical for people without some knowledge of Japanese and the context, and the scope of the English translation, which lags behind the Japanese original, is still extremely limited (issue 6 brought the Japanese versions, modern translation, and annotation up to the middle of the Ōkuninushi stories, equivalent to chapter 28 of Philippi’s translation; the English translation by that point was only to Izanami’s giving birth to the fire deity, chapter 7 of Philippi’s translation). Nevertheless, as the project as a whole and the English translation continue, slowly but steadily, it is to be hoped that the Japanese studies community will find it a useful resource.
Kate Wildman Nakai
> 2020/12/20 5:19、JL Badgley <tats...@gmail.com>のメール:
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/CACgmsFk0KeibCrQgVCO-8ZYdSvPZ8%3Dbr8hprXpDdurDPM2Ws1Q%40mail.gmail.com.
This may be an opportune occasion to alert PMJS readers to an ambitious project at Kokugakuin University to collate resources on the Kojiki and make them widely available. Called Kojikigaku/Studies on the Kojiki and headed by Professor Taniguchi Masahiro, it is primarily in Japanese but has an English component in which Professor Hirafuji Kikuko, a specialist on comparative mythology, has played a key role.
The project has its own dedicated website: http://kojiki.kokugakuin.ac.jp and puts out an annual print periodical, Kojikigaku, which contains ongoing installments of the original Kojiki text, a modern Japanese translation, and extensive annotation of the passages in question. What is particularly valuable about the annotation is that it brings together a range of opinions from commentators over the ages about terms and points of interpretation. The sixth issue of Kojikigaku came out this year and issue 7 should appear in spring next year. From issue 3 there has also been an English translation of the original Kojiki text and the annotation. PDFs of all the issues are available on the website under the tab 成果公開. In addition to the PDFs, an elaborate online collation of the original text, modern Japanese translation, annotation, English translation to date, and other resources (including visual materials) can also be accessed via the 古事記ビユーアー tab.
Much of the material made available by the project may be too technical for people without some knowledge of Japanese and the context, and the scope of the English translation, which lags behind the Japanese original, is still extremely limited (issue 6 brought the Japanese versions, modern translation, and annotation up to the middle of the Ōkuninushi stories, equivalent to chapter 28 of Philippi’s translation; the English translation by that point was only to Izanami’s giving birth to the fire deity, chapter 7 of Philippi’s translation). Nevertheless, as the project as a whole and the English translation continue, slowly but steadily, it is to be hoped that the Japanese studies community will find it a useful resource.
Kate Wildman Nakai
> 2020/12/20 5:19、JL Badgley <tats...@gmail.com>のメール:
Michael Pye
Dec 20, 2020, 1:06:02 PM12/20/20
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Dear corresopondents,
I basically agree with Rober Wittkamp's advice about a suitable
translation for use by the museum volunteers.
And Mr. Oaden, or others mght like to take a look at my simple review
of Gustav Heldts translation at:
DOI: https://doi.org/10.17192/mjr.2016.18.3524
I took the liberty of translating the august author's name as Staff of
the Geats Hero, which illustrates the main problem that remains. What
if we applied that principle to place names as well? We would have
difficult choices. White Mountain and Great Mountain would be easy,
but could I find acceptance for Mountain of Non-duality?
I think Heldt could resolve the problem by different arrangements
of his basic material.
At shrines today (their pamphlets etc) the names of divinities
worshipped are given in kanji but also in a modern transliteration in
hiagana). Isn't that what the volunteers would need now and then, but
in modified Hepburn, as I'm assuming they may not know much Japanese?
all good wishes,
Michael Pye
Zitat von "'Robert F Wittkamp' via PMJS: Listserv" <pm...@googlegroups.com>:
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/7C0FF70E-6AF7-4DF5-91CA-8274D3337264%40icloud.com.
.................................................................................................................
Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
I basically agree with Rober Wittkamp's advice about a suitable
translation for use by the museum volunteers.
And Mr. Oaden, or others mght like to take a look at my simple review
of Gustav Heldts translation at:
DOI: https://doi.org/10.17192/mjr.2016.18.3524
I took the liberty of translating the august author's name as Staff of
the Geats Hero, which illustrates the main problem that remains. What
if we applied that principle to place names as well? We would have
difficult choices. White Mountain and Great Mountain would be easy,
but could I find acceptance for Mountain of Non-duality?
I think Heldt could resolve the problem by different arrangements
of his basic material.
At shrines today (their pamphlets etc) the names of divinities
worshipped are given in kanji but also in a modern transliteration in
hiagana). Isn't that what the volunteers would need now and then, but
in modified Hepburn, as I'm assuming they may not know much Japanese?
all good wishes,
Michael Pye
Zitat von "'Robert F Wittkamp' via PMJS: Listserv" <pm...@googlegroups.com>:
.................................................................................................................
Professor of the Study of Religions (em.), University of Marburg, Germany
Michael Pye
Dec 20, 2020, 1:06:10 PM12/20/20
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PS.
I must apologise to Gutav Heldt for forgetting that he had indeed
applied his method to place names as well, including a number of
mountains, though not the ones I mentioned (because not in the Kojiki).
mp
.
Zitat von Michael Pye <p...@staff.uni-marburg.de>:
I must apologise to Gutav Heldt for forgetting that he had indeed
applied his method to place names as well, including a number of
mountains, though not the ones I mentioned (because not in the Kojiki).
mp
.
Zitat von Michael Pye <p...@staff.uni-marburg.de>:
Richard Bowring
Dec 20, 2020, 1:06:19 PM12/20/20
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Not that there will be much call for it in Texas, but the German translation by Klaus Antoni should also be noted: Aufzeichnung alter Begebenheiten (2012). This has a translation followed by no less than 520 pages of detailed context and commentary.
Richard Bowring
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/CAKDAMNSxdGaxTBtDjOQAMB1ksv8J7F223M_78pM0BWaVg%2BJ-2w%40mail.gmail.com.
Scheid, Bernhard
Dec 20, 2020, 1:06:26 PM12/20/20
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Speaking of translations into different languages, it is necessary to mention the Kojiki translation by Klaus Antoni into German (2012). It comes with an extensive body of annotations which is in particular useful for engaged “outsiders”, even if critics such as Robert miss the impact of recent Japanese scholarship. I would nevertheless recommend Antoni’s translation to those who seek a text in a most “natural”, i.e. readable, translation (of course limited to German).
Bernhard Scheid
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Oaden, Arthur
Dec 22, 2020, 1:52:27 AM12/22/20
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Dear all, thanks for the advice! And Thanks Badgely and Vettorano for those specifics and comments, those comparisons are interesting to read. I can see how Phillippi might be quite nice to have at this Museum. Thanks, Arthur
Michael Pye
Dec 22, 2020, 1:53:25 AM12/22/20
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Dear Colleagues,
Quite right of colleagues to bring up Klaus Antoni's Kojiki in
German (2012), which I have recently been most glad to use.
This discussion has made me see even more clearly that there is a real
gap here in the English-language world. I hope I will live to see
somebody fill it for students/ general users/readers like myself. A
handy, reliable translation would be so useful.
But I would like to make a few suggestions to any authors or
publishers lurking on this list:
1) Please use a transliteration system which is recognisable for
ordinary users of modern Japanese. (Antoni is more or less ok on
this,but the use of the acute accent ó could be explained at the
beginning, briefly.)
2) Please have an index (I couldn't find one in Antoni's work (but the
reason might be that a total index would have added another 100 pages!)
3) Please include all the kami in the index, or give them a special
index as befits their august status. (Reason: for example, sombody
might visit a shrine and want to look up one of the divinities
revered there.
4) Place names and personal names should also be in the index.
5) Please don't have 200 pages of "introduction". Mercifully Antoni
starts straight out with the text first (that's a very nice decision),
and it is uncluttered. But the later introduction to the commentary is
a couple of hundred pages, most of which could have been made into a
companion volume.
6) Please don't translate the names of the kami in the text itself
(contra Heldt's policy), but it would be fine to have an appendix on
that, as there is so much in there. The names could be (additionally)
translated at first occurrence. That would be a good use of footnotes.
7) Do take a leaf out of Antoni's approach by judiciously leaving some
special words in Japanese with an approximation in brackets, or
conversely including some distinctive Japanese terms in brackets. This
hardly disrupts the text.
8) Format. Antoni's translation is beautifully produced, but it's in a
kind of pocket book format - with 825 pages! What the user needs is
the proverbial slim volume, preferably one that stays open when you
put it down,but without falling apart.
I'm looking forward to getting a review copy in my nineties (still
quite some time to get it done)!
Michael Pye
Zitat von "Scheid, Bernhard" <Bernhar...@oeaw.ac.at>:
> sasha...@gmail.com<mailto:alexand...@ehess.fr>
> pm...@googlegroups.com<mailto:pm...@googlegroups.com>
> Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org<mailto:mod...@pmjs.org>
> Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org<mailto:mod...@pmjs.org>
Quite right of colleagues to bring up Klaus Antoni's Kojiki in
German (2012), which I have recently been most glad to use.
This discussion has made me see even more clearly that there is a real
gap here in the English-language world. I hope I will live to see
somebody fill it for students/ general users/readers like myself. A
handy, reliable translation would be so useful.
But I would like to make a few suggestions to any authors or
publishers lurking on this list:
1) Please use a transliteration system which is recognisable for
ordinary users of modern Japanese. (Antoni is more or less ok on
this,but the use of the acute accent ó could be explained at the
beginning, briefly.)
2) Please have an index (I couldn't find one in Antoni's work (but the
reason might be that a total index would have added another 100 pages!)
3) Please include all the kami in the index, or give them a special
index as befits their august status. (Reason: for example, sombody
might visit a shrine and want to look up one of the divinities
revered there.
4) Place names and personal names should also be in the index.
5) Please don't have 200 pages of "introduction". Mercifully Antoni
starts straight out with the text first (that's a very nice decision),
and it is uncluttered. But the later introduction to the commentary is
a couple of hundred pages, most of which could have been made into a
companion volume.
6) Please don't translate the names of the kami in the text itself
(contra Heldt's policy), but it would be fine to have an appendix on
that, as there is so much in there. The names could be (additionally)
translated at first occurrence. That would be a good use of footnotes.
7) Do take a leaf out of Antoni's approach by judiciously leaving some
special words in Japanese with an approximation in brackets, or
conversely including some distinctive Japanese terms in brackets. This
hardly disrupts the text.
8) Format. Antoni's translation is beautifully produced, but it's in a
kind of pocket book format - with 825 pages! What the user needs is
the proverbial slim volume, preferably one that stays open when you
put it down,but without falling apart.
I'm looking forward to getting a review copy in my nineties (still
quite some time to get it done)!
Michael Pye
Zitat von "Scheid, Bernhard" <Bernhar...@oeaw.ac.at>:
> https://ehess.academia.edu/AlexanderVovin
> https://www.edj-vovin.com/
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 6:52 PM Oaden, Arthur
> <oad...@buckeyemail.osu.edu<mailto:oad...@buckeyemail.osu.edu>>
> https://www.edj-vovin.com/
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 6:52 PM Oaden, Arthur
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Philippe Buc
Dec 22, 2020, 1:53:40 AM12/22/20
to pm...@googlegroups.com, Richard Bowring
You do underestimate the patriotism of German-Americans, dear colleague!
;-)
On 20.12.2020 10:48, Richard Bowring wrote:
> Not that there will be much call for it in Texas, but the German
> translation by Klaus Antoni should also be noted: _Aufzeichnung alter
> Begebenheiten (_2012_)._ This has a translation followed by no less
>> Co-editor, of _International Journal of Eurasian Linguistics_, Brill
>>> _The Kojiki: An Account of Ancient Matters_ translated by Heldt
>> [4].
> [5].
>
>
> Links:
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;-)
On 20.12.2020 10:48, Richard Bowring wrote:
> Not that there will be much call for it in Texas, but the German
> Begebenheiten (_2012_)._ This has a translation followed by no less
> than 520 pages of detailed context and commentary.
> Richard Bowring
>
>> On 19 Dec 2020, at 23:04, Alexander Vovin <sasha...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I also find Philippi's translation of the Kojiki better than
>> Chamberlain. Aston remains the translation of the Nihonshoki. It was
>> reprinted by Tuttle, so probably it should be available -- check
>> their website. John Bentley was working on the new Nihonshoki
>> translation for many years, but I dunno how close he is to the
>> completion. There are also Russian translations of both books, and a
>> French translation of the Kojiki by Pierre Vinclair.
>>
>> Alexander Vovin
>> Membre élu d'Academia Europaea
>> Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon et de l'Asie
>> du Nord-Est ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES;
>> CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE
>>
>> Membre associé de CENTRE DE RECHERCHES SUR LE JAPON
>> Laureate of 2015 Japanese Institute for Humanities Prize for a
>> Foreign Scholar
>> Editor-in-chief, series _Languages of Asia_, Brill
> Richard Bowring
>
>> On 19 Dec 2020, at 23:04, Alexander Vovin <sasha...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I also find Philippi's translation of the Kojiki better than
>> Chamberlain. Aston remains the translation of the Nihonshoki. It was
>> reprinted by Tuttle, so probably it should be available -- check
>> their website. John Bentley was working on the new Nihonshoki
>> translation for many years, but I dunno how close he is to the
>> completion. There are also Russian translations of both books, and a
>> French translation of the Kojiki by Pierre Vinclair.
>>
>> Alexander Vovin
>> Membre élu d'Academia Europaea
>> Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon et de l'Asie
>> du Nord-Est ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES;
>> CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE
>>
>> Membre associé de CENTRE DE RECHERCHES SUR LE JAPON
>> Laureate of 2015 Japanese Institute for Humanities Prize for a
>> Foreign Scholar
>> Co-editor, of _International Journal of Eurasian Linguistics_, Brill
>>> explains things a bit, it sounds like. A heavy emphasis on
>>> translation instead of transliteration. I imagine this could be
>>> helpful, what do you think?
>>>
>>> There also seem to be various Basil Hall Chamberlain editions but
>>> some of those might be confusing given the large amounts of Latin
>>> used if a volunteer does not realize the purpose (!).
>>>
>>> I have seen a lot of positive statements about the Aston
>>> translation of the Nihongi, I don’t know how accessible it is.
>>> There also appear to be other translations, including a Basil Hall
>>> Chamberlain translation.
>>> I welcome your comments!
>>> Thanks, Arthur Oaden, Volunteer
>>>
>>> --
>>> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
>>> To post to the list, email pm...@googlegroups.com
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>>> translation instead of transliteration. I imagine this could be
>>> helpful, what do you think?
>>>
>>> There also seem to be various Basil Hall Chamberlain editions but
>>> some of those might be confusing given the large amounts of Latin
>>> used if a volunteer does not realize the purpose (!).
>>>
>>> I have seen a lot of positive statements about the Aston
>>> translation of the Nihongi, I don’t know how accessible it is.
>>> There also appear to be other translations, including a Basil Hall
>>> Chamberlain translation.
>>> I welcome your comments!
>>> Thanks, Arthur Oaden, Volunteer
>>>
>>> --
>>> PMJS is a forum dedicated to the study of premodern Japan.
>>> To post to the list, email pm...@googlegroups.com
>>> For the PMJS Terms of Use and more resources, please visit
>>> Contact the moderation team at mod...@pmjs.org
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>>>
>>
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Peter Kornicki
Dec 22, 2020, 1:54:32 AM12/22/20
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Although it is unlikely to be of any use to Arthur Oaden, there is also a Polish translation, which was published in 1986 by Wiesław Kotański (1915-2005). Kotański was the founder of Polish Japanology and I was informed that his translation, entitled Kojiki, czyli Księga dawnych wydarzeń [Kojiki, or the Book of Ancient Events], sold out upon publication. If I may be permitted a brief reminiscence of this prolific and enthusiastic scholar, I invited him and Professor Goreglyad of Leningrad to the UK to attend the EAJS conference in Durham in 1987, when it was still difficult to East European and Soviet scholars to travel. At my home in Cambridge, the evening before we set off for Durham in my somewhat unreliable car, they both came to my house and we started with vodka. Given Poland’s recent history, Kotański was no friend of the Soviet Union, but he took it in good part when I insisted that he drink Russian vodka while Goreglyad had to drink Polish vodka.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/6d31989a058d4b2eb8763b392c8e2981%40oeaw.ac.at.
Marzia Vettorato
Dec 22, 2020, 2:10:26 AM12/22/20
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Dear Professors and colleagues,
For those who can speak or read Italian, there are also a translation of the Kojiki made by Mario Marega (1938, the oldest one in Italian language), and a newer one, made by Paolo Villani (2006). As an Italian native speaker, I would recommend both for comparison purposes, but the Villani's translation might be easier to use for simple reading.
The Philippi's translation in English has been reprinted in 2015 by Princeton University Press, so it is quite easy to find.
I would also like to thank you all for this interesting discussion, full of hints and advices.
Marzia Vettorato
Ph.D. Student, "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) - "Sapienza" University, Rome
博士課程の学生 「アジアとアフリカの文明」(日本宗教)
イタリア東洋研究学科
サピエンツァ•ローマ大学
Ph.D. Student, "Civilizations of Asia and Africa"
Italian Institute of Oriental Studies (ISO) - "Sapienza" University, Rome
博士課程の学生 「アジアとアフリカの文明」(日本宗教)
イタリア東洋研究学科
サピエンツァ•ローマ大学
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Klaus Antoni
Dec 29, 2020, 8:30:59 PM12/29/20
to pmjs
Dear colleague, dear Michael Pye,
please allow me to shortly come back to your comments regarding my Kojiki translation with commentary .
I have read your comments and thoughts with great interest and profit. Thank you very much for all your efforts. I only can agree with your suggestions and criticisms, especially regarding the layout and design of the book. But unfortunately my hands were absolutely tied in this respect. The design of the book was clearly and unalterably prescribed by the publisher. The "Verlag der Weltreligionen" is a division of Suhrkamp publishing house, which is highly renowned in Germany for high quality scholarly publications (cf. https://www.suhrkamp.de/alle_titel_der_reihe_194.html), and all titles do follow the same appearance, being inspired by the German Classics Edition, also published by Suhrkamp (cf.
https://www.suhrkamp.de/alle_titel_des_programms_257.html).
The new translation of the Kojiki with commentary was bound to the general guidelines of the series. Unfortunately, no indices etc. were allowed to be included. Nevertheless, the inclusion of the Kojiki into this series should be welcomed, in my opinion, for general considerations. I regard it a sign of respect for non-European religious traditions that the Japanese Kojiki could appear within the framework of this series.
I just wanted to shortly clarify this point. Thank you again, and now I wish you a healthy new year, especially in these difficult times.
Klaus Antoni
Seniorprofessor
Japanese Studies, University of Tuebingen
> ---You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PMJS: Listserv" group.
please allow me to shortly come back to your comments regarding my Kojiki translation with commentary .
I have read your comments and thoughts with great interest and profit. Thank you very much for all your efforts. I only can agree with your suggestions and criticisms, especially regarding the layout and design of the book. But unfortunately my hands were absolutely tied in this respect. The design of the book was clearly and unalterably prescribed by the publisher. The "Verlag der Weltreligionen" is a division of Suhrkamp publishing house, which is highly renowned in Germany for high quality scholarly publications (cf. https://www.suhrkamp.de/alle_titel_der_reihe_194.html), and all titles do follow the same appearance, being inspired by the German Classics Edition, also published by Suhrkamp (cf.
https://www.suhrkamp.de/alle_titel_des_programms_257.html).
The new translation of the Kojiki with commentary was bound to the general guidelines of the series. Unfortunately, no indices etc. were allowed to be included. Nevertheless, the inclusion of the Kojiki into this series should be welcomed, in my opinion, for general considerations. I regard it a sign of respect for non-European religious traditions that the Japanese Kojiki could appear within the framework of this series.
I just wanted to shortly clarify this point. Thank you again, and now I wish you a healthy new year, especially in these difficult times.
Klaus Antoni
Seniorprofessor
Japanese Studies, University of Tuebingen
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Jos Vos
Dec 30, 2020, 5:21:37 PM12/30/20
to pmjs
Dear professor Antoni,
As a happy (non-specialist) reader of your Kojiki, I can only agree with the praise Michael Pye has bestowed on your translation.
Perhaps I should add I also love the format of the book. It is so beautifully bound that it is very easy to use, and to be honest it doesn't bother me that your footnotes
are preceded by 200 pages of introduction, for the following three reasons:
-
The introduction itself is truly enlightening
-
All footnotes refer clearly to the main body of the text
-
The book is supplied with a very handy bound bookmark!
With kind regards and my very best wishes for the New Year,
Jos Vos (a grateful reader)
From: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Klaus Antoni <ant...@japanologie.uni-tuebingen.de>
Sent: 29 December 2020 23:06
To: pmjs <pm...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [PMJS] Reccomendations on Translations of the Kojiki and Nihonshoki for Volunteers?
Sent: 29 December 2020 23:06
To: pmjs <pm...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [PMJS] Reccomendations on Translations of the Kojiki and Nihonshoki for Volunteers?
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pmjs/683065A8-B03E-4B92-86DB-A1046DB535F2%40japanologie.uni-tuebingen.de.
Robert F Wittkamp
Jan 10, 2021, 1:38:17 AM1/10/21
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Dear Colleagues,
the discussion about the question of the quality of a Kojiki translation occupied me a little longer. Therefore, please allow me this late contribution, hopefully not to late. Unfortunately I do not know how to copy the link. So I have to ask for manual search:
youtube: lectures on classical Japanese literature: Kojiki
Furthermore, I would like to draw your attention to another book review: Paolo Villani, in: Japanese Journal of Religious Studies 43/2 (2016), pp.387-389 (Gustav Heldt’s translation).
Thank you very much,
Robert Wittkamp
Am 2020/12/22 um 15:52 schrieb Oaden, Arthur <oad...@buckeyemail.osu.edu>:
Dear all, thanks for the advice! And Thanks Badgely and Vettorano for those specifics and comments, those comparisons are interesting to read. I can see how Phillippi might be quite nice to have at this Museum. Thanks, Arthur
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