Problem opening Plover on a MAC (10.6.8 OS)

[workpj]

Okay...time to install Plover on my MAC, since I can't get Plover to "talk" to my smartwriter in Word or Notepad past 10 minutes on two different Windows/Vista computers.

So....I went to the github site, and downloaded the 2.5.8 .dmg version to my MAC (10.6.8 OS version).  I then dragged the Plover to the Applications window, when the DMG window was opened and I was prompted to then do this.   I then tried to open Plover in the Applications folder. 

Now I see this error message when I try to open Plover:

"Unexpected error.  Traceback (Most recent call last)...and a list of about 10 files referred to, referencing PYC, GUI, WX.  After that list is "Exception:  Enable Access for Assistive Device." 

I can't get past this error listing... 

Not sure what is going on.  Hoping someone does.  I've never seen then before when installing something on my MAC. 

I installed the drivers for my Keyspan, btw.  I think it's ready to communicate if I can get Plover to open...

Thank you, and geek power needed! 

Paula Joy

[Glen Warner]

Hi, Paula.

Two things.

First, on your second laptop issue ... your other laptop is running the same OS as your first one, so if it's truly a Vista issue, then you'll need to test it on something else.

As for your Mac issue, click your Apple menu and select "System Preferences."

In the window that opens, look for "Universal Access." Click that, and click the check box that says, "Enable Access for Assistive Devices."

Close the window, copy over your dictionaries, plug in your KeySpan adapter, start Plover, and we'll see how things go from there.

--gdw

[Workpaulajoy]

Hi, Glen!

One quick question:  not sure what you mean by "copy over your dictionaries."  I am thinking you mean to add them to Plover when setting it up and removing the default JSON dictionary.  Let me know if that is not correct.

Will try your suggestions and get back to you.

Regarding both of my Windows-based computers using Vista:  yeah I thought about the fact that it might be Vista it's causing the problem, since I'm experiencing the disconnect in Plover-to-Steno-machine on both computers that run Vista. 

I can upgrade, going to Windows 7. I've hesitated, because on one computer, even though the manufacturer's sticker on the computer clearly states that the computer will run on Vista -- even though it originally was configured for XP -- that wasn't the case when I upgraded to Vista. I've noticed that it runs slower, noticeably.

Maybe someone in my family will have a Windows 7 computer, and I can try and run on that. If I can get my Mac to work, however, I guess I'll just migrate all my transcription files over to the MAC -- even though I was trying to avoid doing that.  

Anyway, I really appreciate your suggestion regarding the assistive device settings, and I will try that next!! 

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[Glen Warner]

Hi, Paula.

Sorry I wasn't clear.

I meant copy your dictionaries from your PC to a flash drive then to your Mac, so Plover will have something to work with.

I think I had to make the change in the System Preferences when I bought my foot pedal a few years back, so that's why I didn't mention it in my article ... and yes, I'll take care of that one later ...!

Good luck!

--gdw

[Paula Welter]

Okay, Glen.  Very clear.  That's what I thought you meant... I did copy my dictionary files already to a folder on my MAC desktop so they're available once I configure Plover -- after I do the steps you suggested!  I am going to do that right now.

I wish this would all work on my Windows Vista computers, because then I wouldn't have to buy Express Scribe (for my foot pedal/transcription setup) again in "MAC" version.  That company, NCH, gets you coming and going, I've found!  Also, I would have a computer dedicated only to transcription, which I'd prefer. 

Anyway, at least I will see how long I can transcribe on the MAC, when able, and then I'll let you and the group know if I got past the "glitch."

I'm packing like crazy to go on a bicycle tour in the NW and not sure I'll get this done before I leave...but when I'm back in a few weeks, I'll burrow in as needed! 

it'll be so GREAT once I can depend on Plover.  I'm very impressed with the overall performance of it, and the Plover users are awesome, re the group support. 

Again, thank you for your help!!!! 

[Glen Warner]

Hi, Paula.

Wow, such will power! I don't think I could wait that long to test something like that! :o)

As for ExpressScribe for the Mac, I'm sure you could find an older version for the Mac with a simple Google search. I'm using version 5.02.

Cheetah was recently taken over by Jason Pardikes, the guy who's making the Infinity Traditional/Ergonomic writers. I just bought a copy of the student version of their re-branded CAT software; it's called Apeiron. The student version is free, but you have to pay shipping ($11.00 or so).

If you're coming up to the Pacific North Wet, should you find yourself in a little town called Snohomish on a Sunday, look for a small bar called Stewart's. $7.00 prime rib dinners ... and if you like Coke, don't order one there, because they serve RC Cola (I had a root beer instead).

Have fun!

--Glen

[Paula Welter]

Glen,

I am laughing at your tip for a restaurant in Snohomish.  I'll be in Portland to be "Grammie Paula" for about 9 days to two little hilarious grandsons.  Then I'm biking 160 miles with all my camping equipment and essentials on my folding Bike Friday in a big loop on trails that surround the outlying areas of Portland.  I don't think I'll get to Snohomish...but one never knows!  I'll keep it all in mind.

Okay, I couldn't stand waiting to test out the MAC, so here I've been for the past hour or so tweaking whatever I can...to no avail.  The MAC writes for only about 7 minutes!!!  The Vista/Windows computers at least wrote for 10!

Okay...I had to install keyspan driver on the MAC.  So I did that.  Then when I tried to connect it, it kept thinking it was a network, bluetooth, WHATEVER!  So I keyword searched the Plover trove of information, and heck, you'd dealt with that too a while back.  Anyway, I did something logical, gleaned from that long posting on how you dealt wit it...can't remember what now -- and it finally worked with my machine to Word, for a glorious 7 minutes. 

Then, when the communication to Plover via my Smartwriter stopped the first time... I configured the writer in Plover so that RTS/CTS box was checked.  I restarted computer, restarted Plover.  I don't know what the heck that RTS/CTS box is, but how could I lose trying, at this point?  Again, I was able to write just fine, but only for 7 minutes.  The XonXoff box, if checked, wouldn't allow me to write anything, I found. 

What is the Timeout 2.0 box about?  I tried to uncheck that, but then when I went into "configure" box again for the writer, it was checked.  Maybe it has a mind of its own?

So....I'm now left wondering: 

a) if my beloved Smartwriter is just not liking Plover.  (It has never rebelled before in the three CAT software programs I mentioned in separate posting earlier, which you must have read, because you mention some interesting info about Cheetah!  BTW, What is that $11 software?} 

b)  if there is something strange going on with the serial-to-USB Keyspan (new).  I doubt that...only because the serial-to-USB adapter I had purchased a couple years ago from Stenograph and connected for use in Plover before I switched it out with the Keyspan didn't perform any better in duration of Plover-to-steno-machine communication efforts. 

I'm going to escape reality and go read a novel.

Onward and upward, eventually....

Thanks again, Glen. 

Paula Joy

I want to get Plover to work...I see its potential as amazing. 

Whatever must be tried next, if you have any ideas... I'm game to try.  I don't have another writer.  I might be able to borrow a friend's writer.  She works in Eclipse, and not sure what her writer is, but it's newer, I know that. 

[Gabriel Holmes]

Did someone say bicycle tour?? My wife and I are going to be taking our honeymoon in the bay area this fall, and she's into biking!

[Paula Welter]

Hey, Gabriel, I may not be a techie geek, but I am a BIKE GEEK!  

So....check out www.pedalinjoy.blogspot.com for my adventures thus far.  

Didn't discover biking until I hit 50.  Go see my self-supported bike tour adventure to bring in my 60th year on Planet Earth.... I biked across one side of Vancouver Island...so find the post I did about Victoria BC.  Also, I highly recommend this beloved website for the resources and maps for anyone doing bike touring: 

http://www.adventurecycling.org/

If ever you come to the Bay Area, I can help you find some fun places to ride.  

Pedal on!

Paula Joy

[Paula Welter]

Hi, everyone!

I'm BACK from my adventures in the NW.  I have a link to my bike tour (three days, 90 miles, one mountain crossed, and a gorgeous ride up and down the Banks-Vernonia Trail in Oregon).  Happy to share the link if anyone is interested in such things.

Several of you have been attempting to help me trouble-shoot why my Plover interface shuts down in a pretty predictable 10 minutes when writing from my Smartwriter to Word -- whether I'm writing on a MAC computer or a Windows-based (Vista) computer.

Have any of you had more brainstorms about what might be going on and how I might get past this? 

I would be forever grateful to finally be able to write for hours in Plover, and all the new things coming down the pike to refine it even further sound awesome! 

I am thinking I should just continue using this thread for this communication on this problem.  Let me know if I should start a new one.

IDEA:  If it is easier for someone to talk with me on the phone about possible solutions, I'm game to do so, and another idea:  if anyone lives in the Bay Area or Sacramento, I could meet up with computer/writer in hand if that helps in testing out equipment to get this issue fully diagnosed.  That is, I realize, asking a lot, re time spent on your part, but maybe it would get to the root of the problem sooner, so just throwing this possibility out there!

Many thanks!

Paula Joy

[Paula Welter]

Sorry, but I just realized that the posting I just sent on this thread was sent to the wrong thread.  I'll re-send it to the thread more appropriately targeting the problem:  "Plover works great -- and stops working." 

[workpj]

Hi, Glenn, 

This is a question about a post from last month... you mentioned Apeiron.  I looked for it online and couldn't find it offered for sale -- or even the student version mentioned.  When I used TurboCAT (which I loved, years ago, as well as Cheetah's support), it was DOS-based software.  What OS does Apeiron run on, and could you point me to finding a copy of it?  I still have old DOS-based floppies of TC, I believe.  Just don't use them since I don't use DOS-based computers anymore.  :>)

Thanks!  Paula Joy aka workpj

[workpj]

Glen, sorry, but ignore email just sent on this post.  I did find Apeiron School version (for $300) at http://www.infinitytraditional.com/apeiron-school/   

I'm not a student, however, so that isn't something that works for me.

[Glen Warner]

Hi, Paula.

I'm not sure if Apeiron is is ready for prime time right now.

I ordered a copy, got an e-mail from the company, with a link to download the software, with a note that I would need to call in for a code before I could actually use it. I wrote back that I would install it in a couple days, and I would contact them at that time for the code.

Well. I installed the program, and called in for the code, and the tech on the line with me did not know how to match my code with the matching key. She promised to get back to me on it, but when I didn't hear back, I decided to send another e-mail to another tech, the one that had contacted me initially.

It's been three weeks now, so I guess they're still having issues.

Well. In the meantime, I think I've figured out how to get Plover to handle Q&A, which is good, because I have a audio file or two to transcribe ...

--gdw

[Paula Welter]

Well, sounds like they are not "together" yet. 

I could have helped you get Q & A up and running.  I'm able to do that in Plover...as long as it keeps writing.  It was writing for 10 minutes at a time before stopping communication with my Smartwriter.  Now it's down to about 4-5 minutes!  I'm wondering if maybe the port (9-pin) in my Smartwriter could possibly be needing replacement.  Until I used Plover, it was working great with a different CAT system so it is very vexing trying to figure out what's wrong.  

Plover people are all awesome, trying to troubleshoot it with me.  What do you think about my latest theory -- a bad port in the Smartwriter?  

Next, I'm going to do what Mike suggested:  try Plover with a friend's writer and see if it time's out...AND I'm going to try my writer with her CAT system.  That should give me some interesting answers....

Anyway, if you need a simple CAT system that is about $400 a year, no contracts, just to write real-time to for school needs, check out Gigatron's Openwrite32.  Ask for Vikki on the sales team.  She's awesome.  

PJ

[Glen Warner]

Hi, Paula.

I didn't know I needed the help until I had to transcribe some Q&A recently!

While I do have a lot of Q&A extensions available to me, Plover changed them a bit, so I have to go in there and fix them all so I can use them again ... but in the meantime, I defined my Q. stroke like so:

Q. {#Return}{#Tab}Q. {#Tab}{^^}{-|}

Seems to work ...!

Of course, it goes without saying that you would toss in an A. when you want to define the answer bank, so just pretend I didn't say that.

As for your problem port idea, that's a good possibility; since you got the same problem on both the Mac and your PC, that points to a problem with your writer to me, and the only way to rule that out would be to test both of your computers with another writer.

Testing both of your computers with that other writer should be enlightening as well.

I'll keep OpenWrite in mind ...! I think, though, that I can probably do everything through Plover, now that I've tweaked that Q&A issue into submission. Anxiously awaiting that dictionary editor ... but should the need arise, I'll just have to make the changes through my HTML editor, skEdit (Mac only).

... and I still have Eclipse 4.x running through VMWare Fusion ...

--gdw

[Paula Welter]

Hi, Glenn,

Still not able to test out my machine on a friend's computer.  Need to catch up to her.  Will let forum know what I find out...

I thought I'd send you over my Plover definition for a Speaker asking questions (me):

"STPHAO/STPHAO": "{#Return}SPEAKER1{:}{^     ^}{-|}",

"EUFPLT/EUFPLT": "{#Return}SPEAKER 2{:}{^     ^}{-|}",

"EURBGS/EURBGS": "{#Return}SPEAKER 3{:}{^     ^}{-|}",

It works fine for me. I like the speaker ID to be followed by a :, and then 5 spaces after the speaker (or you could, of course, define SPEAKER 1, for instance, as Q)

Anyway, this works great for me, if it is at all helpful. 

Thanks, Glenn!

Paula Joy

[Glen Warner]

Hi, Paula. 

I'll give those a try! I think what I'm seeing that's causing me a bit of grief is sometimes I'll switch from either a Q or an A, only to find that my tab before the Q or A symbol is a few spaces short of where it should be.  Of course, that's easily fixed with a few taps on the space bar or a big Find and Replace, but I don't want to have to do that all the time! :o)

--gdw

[Workpaulajoy]

Well, mine seems to be working predictably, re spacing, so let me know if my define helps, Glen!  Hoping so!!  

[Glen Warner]

Hi, Paula.

 

Alas, I am still fighting that extra space problem.

 

I modified your speaker IDs they would make plain ol' Q&A symbols like so:

STKPWHR {#Return}Q{.}{^  ^}{-|}

FRPBLGTS {#Return}A{.}{^ ^}{-|} 

... but when I use them, I get that pesky space before the Q or A symbol, like so:

 Q.  Is this thing on?

 A.  Wouldn't you like to know?!?

I thought I had a way around that, but I guess not!

On the plus side, they line up nice.

--gdw

[Paula Welter]

So, it's putting a space BEFORE the Q and the A symbol, huh?  

Hmmmm.  How about a "delete space" command, then, before the Q and the A symbol?  Would that work?  At least they line up nice now!  

Let me know if the idea I just proposed solves it.  I'm not the best at dreaming up these defines, since much of the "command" configuration, when I worked, was all pre-loaded into my CAT software dictionary by whatever vendor I was using at the time. 

"Those were the days"...  

Paula Joy

[Mirabai Knight]

I think this is a bug. I've noticed it myself several times. I'll
define something like:

TPR*ED: {#Return}{#Return}{^^}FRED: {-|}

And for the duration of that Plover session, it'll work as specified,
with no space after the line breaks before the speaker ID. But then
when I close Plover and start it up again, suddenly it'll insert a
space at the beginning of the line, after the line breaks and before
the speaker ID. I've also seen problems with defining strokes like
{^-^} from within Plover. I think the code is doing something wonky
with spaces and delete-space commands when it saves the dictionary to
file, even though it's parsing it correctly immediately after the
definition is made. I'm not sure if this is true for rtf dictionaries
only (my bottom-most dictionary is rtf format) or if it's true of json
dictionaries as well, but it only seems to be true for definitions
made using the dictionary update window, as opposed to direct editing
with the file in a text editor.

[Hesky Fisher]

I filed https://github.com/openstenoproject/plover/issues/209 to keep track of this.

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[Mirabai Knight]

Thanks, Hesky! (':

[Workpaulajoy]

Hi,

If you'll note, I change the subject heading in this thread for this particular problem, because I probably mistakenly responded to something from Glen about his spacing and speaker ID issues but, instead, from a thread of email that was referring to my problems with Plover not wanting to write past four minutes on my steno machine interface. Just didn't want your comments on the spacing issue to get buried in that, so I'm hoping this will reset that subject to go along with that.

Thanks so much Hesky and Mirabai!!!

WorkPJ aka Paula Joy

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[Glen Warner]

Mirabai, that's exactly what I'm experiencing -- I'll define my paragraph stroke (or whatever) to include that ending "{^^}" bit, ilt work just fine, until I close Plover for the night ... and the next day, I would just re-define my paragraph stroke and it (usually) works as expected ... and mine is also defined in an .rtf dictionary.

I think it does the same thing with a .json dictionary, unfortunately ...

 --gdw