Re: Mecatipia: an orthographic/steno theory for several languages

[Krzysztof Smirnow]

hello!

Show us (at least: me) some more of your method!

2013/12/12 Rafael Quintana <metodoq...@yahoo.es>

I introduce you my orthographic theory Mecatipia based on the Noppoo Choc keyboard. There is no briefs, neither dictionary, nor CAT program, nor learning. Just practice until the desired speed:

1.- Beginner. +/- 100 wpm for using it as a typing keyboard.

2.- Intermediate.  +/- 140 for general amateur purposes.

3.- Advanced. +140 for stenographic and professional uses only.

By now, it has  to be adapted to the Noppoo Choc keyboard but I hope Plover gets this in a short time.

The layout of my system is optimized for Spanish but it can be adapted to other orthographic and semi-orthographic languages. A Plover group member, Steven Bhardwaj, says:

 Thanks much Rafael for sharing, and Paulo for engaging as well!

I am a beginner to Plover/Steno, but have ambitions to use it for simultaneous interpretation/transcription.

I am interested in the concept of exclusively- and/or primarily-phonemic Steno theories that can be quickly applied to new languages. Rafael's system could be studied and the basic ideas extended to many more languages via a common Plover platform.

It seems that a list of phonemic language scripts may include:

Indonesian/Malay, Spanish, German, Polish, Swahili, Sanskrit, Turkish, Slovak, Finnish, Hungarian, Hawaiian, Georgian, Tagalog, Latin, Croatian, Hindi...

The threads are ambivalent on the status of Arabic, but I am studying Arabic now and I think that it would work as well, as it is many vowellings to one spelling, not many spellings to one pronunciation. If Arabic works, then Hebrew will likely work as well.

Sources:

1 http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15162&PN=1&TPN=1

2 http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6121&PN=0&TPN=1

In fact, if Mecatipia-Plover were working in this manner, I might even prioritize learning that theory over learning Plover for my native English!

Grandjean layout style as it´s usual at several countries in Europe.

 

El jueves, 12 de diciembre de 2013 03:22:07 UTC+1, Rafael Quintana escribió:

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* http://www.stenografia.pl *

[Zack Brown]

Plover is optimized for commonly used words rather than obscure ones. But here's the list of dictionary entries matching the elements. Only 10 of them require more than 2 strokes.

"HRAOUPL/TPHUPL": "aluminum",

"A*EUPBT/PHOEPB": "antimony",

"ARG/O*PB": "argon",

"ARS/TPHEUBG": "arsenic",

"PWAR/KWRUPL": "barium",

"PWREUL/KWRUPL": "beryllium",

"PWEUS/PH*UT": "bismuth",

"PWROE/PHAOEUPB": "bromine",

"KAD/PHEU/KWRUPL": "cadmium",

"KALS/KWRUPL": "calcium",

"KAR/PWOPB": "carbon",

"SAOES/KWRUPL": "cesium",

"KHRORPB": "chlorine",

"KROEPL/KWRUPL": "chromium",

"KOE/PWALT": "cobalt",

"KOP/ER": "copper",

"TPHRAOUR/AOEUPB": "fluorine",

"TKPWAL/KWRUPL": "gallium",

"TKPWOELD": "gold",

"HAOEL/KWRUPL": "helium",

"HAOEURD/SKWREPB": "hydrogen",

"AOEU/TKAOEUPB": "iodine",

"AOEURPB": "iron",

"KREUP/TOPB": "krypton",

"HRAED": "lead",

"HR*EUT/KWRUPL": "lithium",

"PHAG/TPHAOES/KWRUPL": "magnesium",

"PHAPBG/TPHAOES": "manganese",

"PHER/KREU": "mercury",

"TPHAOE/KWROPB": "neon",

"TPHEUBG/-L": "nickel",

"TPHAOEU/OEB/KWRUPL": "niobium",

"TPHAOEURT/SKWREPB": "nitrogen",

"OBGS/SKWREPB": "oxygen",

"PA/HRAEUD/KWRUPL": "palladium",

"TPOS/TPRUS": "phosphorus",

"PHRAT/TPHUPL": "platinum",

"PHRAOU/TOEPB/KWRUPL": "plutonium",

"PO/TAS/KWRUPL": "potassium",

"RAEUD/KWRUPL": "radium",

"RAEU/TKOPB": "radon",

"SHRAOEPB/KWRUPL": "selenium",

"SEUL/KOPB": "silicon",

"SEUL/SRER": "silver",

"SOED/KWRUPL": "sodium",

"STROPBT/KWRUPL": "strontium",

"SUL/TPUR": "sulfur",

"TEBG/TPHAOES/KWRUPL": "technetium",

"THAL/KWRUPL": "thallium",

"TEUPB": "tin",

"TAOEU/TAEUPB/KWRUPL": "titanium",

"TUPBG/STEPB": "tungsten",

"KWRAOU/RAEUPB/KWRUPL": "uranium",

"SRA/TPHAEUD/KWRUPL": "vanadium",

"S*EUPB/-BG": "zinc",

On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Rafael Quintana <metodoq...@yahoo.es> wrote:

Stenograph  vs.  Mecatype

For comparing both theories,  can anybody write all the keystrokes necessary for writing the  periodic table of the elements accordint to the stenograph theory ?

Mecatype theory

hi-dro-ge-no//   li-tio//   so-dio//   po-ta-sio//   ru-bi-dio//   ce-sio//   fran-cio//   be-ri-lio//   ma-g-ne-sio//   cal-cio//   es-tron-cio//   ba-rio//    ra-dio//   es-can-dio//   i-trio//    lan-ta-no//   a-cti-nio//   ti-ta-nio//   zir-co-nio//  ha-f-nio//   va-na-dio//   nio-bio//   tan-ta-lo//   cro-mo//    mo-li-b-de-no//   wol-fra-mio//    man-ga-ne-so//   te-cne-cio//    re-nio//  hie-rro//   ru-te-nio//  os-mio//   co-bal-to//   ro-dio//   i-ri-dio//   ni-quel//   pa-la-dio//   pla-ti-no//  co-bre//   pla-ta//   o-ro//   zin-c//  ca-d-mio//   mer-cu-rio//   bo-ro//   a-lu-mi-nio//   ga-lio//   in-dio//   ta-lio//   car-bo-no//   si-li-cio//  ger-ma-nio//   es-ta-ño//   plo-mo//   ni-tro-ge-no//   fos-fo-ro//   ar-se-ni-co//   an-ti-mo-nio//   bis-mu-to//  o-xi-ge-no//   a-zu-fre//   se-le-nio//  te-lu-rio//  po-lo-nio//  fluor//  clo-ro//   bro-mo//   io-do//  as-ta-to//   he-lio//  neon//  ar-gon//  cri-pton//   xe-non//   ra-don//  lan-ta-no//   ce-rio//   pra-seo-di-mio//  neo-di-mio//   pro-me-cio//   sa-ma-rio//   e-u-ro-pio//   ga-do-li-nio//  ter-bio//   dis-pro-sio//   hol-mio//   er-bio//   tu-lio//   i-ter-bio//   lu-te-cio   //  to-rio//   pro-to-a-cti-nio//  ura-nio//   ne-ptu-nio//   plu-to-nio//   a-me-ri-cio//  cu-rio//   ber-ke-lio//   ca-li-for-nio//   eins-te-nio// fer-mio//   men-de-le-vio//   no-be-lio//   la-u-ren-cio//      

Total words:   103

Total Mecatype keystrokes: 286

El viernes, 13 de diciembre de 2013 12:30:08 UTC+1, Rafael Quintana escribió:

Aquí te presento todo lo que hay que saber sobre mi sistema de estenotipia ortografica "Mecatipia".  Como te dije no tiene abreviaturas, ni programa CAT, sólo lo que ves. Sistema ortográfico y sencillo, el sistema más sencillo que se puede imaginar. Lo único que hay que hacer es practicar hasta que te resulte automático. Yo lo conseguí en poco tiempo, por eso te puedo decir que fun-cio-na.  El teclado Noppoo Choc 84 mini es perfecto. Sólo falta el detalle del mapeo del teclado para que sea operativo, por eso si conoces a algún programador de Plover te agradecería que le insistas para que le dedique unas pocas horas a esta tarea de mapear el teclado. Por cierto, la disposición que ves es perfecta para español . Saludos.

A-qui//   te//    pre-sen-to//   to-do//   lo//   que//  ha-y//  que//  sa-ber//  so-bre//  mi//  sis-te-ma//  de//  es-te-no-ti-pia//  or-to-gra-fi-ca//  Me-ca-ti-pia//.   Co-mo//  te//   di-je//   no//   tie-ne//    a-bre-via-tu-ras//, ni//    pro-gra-mas//    CAT//.   so-lo//    lo//    que//   ves//.    Sis-te-ma//    or-to-grá-fi-co//   y//   sen-ci-llo//, el//  sis-te-ma//    màs//    sen-ci-llo//    que //     se//    pue-de//     i-ma-gi-nar//.     Lo//    u-ni-co//    que//    ha-y//    que//    ha-cer//    es//   pra-cti-car//    has-ta//    que//   te//   re-sul-te//   a-u-to-ma-ti-co//.   Yo//   lo//   con-se-gui//   en//   po-co//   tiem-po//,   por//   e-so//   pue-do//   de-cir//     que//    fun-cio-na//.   El//   te-cla-do//   No-p-po-o//    Cho-c//  8-4//   mi-ni//   es//    per-fe-cto//.    So-lo//    fal-ta//   el//     de-ta-lle//    del//   ma-peo//   del//  te-cla-do//    pa-ra//  que// sea// o-pe-ra-ti-vo//,   por//   e-so//   si//   co-no-ces//   a//   al-gún//   pro-gra-ma-dor//   de//   Plo-ver//  te// a-gra-de-ce-ría// que//   le//   in-sis-tas//   pa-ra//    que//   le//   de-di-que//   un//   tiem-po//   a//   es-ta//   ta-rea//  de//   ma-pear//  el// te-cla-do//.  Por//   cier-to//, la//   dis-po-si-ción//   que//   ves//   es//   per-fe-cta//   pa-ra//  es-pa-ñol// .   Sa-lu-dos//  

Total Words:  124

Total Keystrokes: 246

--
Zack Brown

[Gabriel Holmes]

You might have fun practicing that to Tom Lehrer's Elements song....

[Ian Dawson]

It strikes me that since it's a purely orthographic system, Mecatype might work best with a hardware solution rather than a software one. 

Someone accomplished something very similar here: http://hunt.net.nz/users/darran/weblog/c6f35/

You would essentially have a box with an Arduino inside. All you would do would be to plug the keyboard into the box, and plug the box into the computer. The computer would still think it was a usb keyboard ( so no software or drivers would be needed on the PC) but the Arduino or similar would do all the processing to turn key chords into strings of letters. Any additional abbreviations could be dealt with by "auto-correct" in Word, or whatever alternatives there are. 

All that said, I know next to nothing about all of this at the moment, so I may be completely off-base. :)

Zack Brown

[Charles Shattuck]

I think using an Arduino to take in serial protocol from a stenotype machine and output a translated keystroke via USB would be pretty cool. Eliminates the need for an operating system specific driver. Possibly an AVR based Arduino would be too starved for memory to do the lookup table, but maybe the newer ARM based Arduino would work. It might also be possible to take keys from a QWERTY keyboard and output the single translated character. I don't know how to do that, but I think the lookup would be relatively easy to do.

Charley Shattuck

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[Aziz Yemloul]

Hi Rafael,

Did you tried to make your machine on the plover/machine/ directory.

I use Grandjean layout too in plover but with a more conventional
way. It looks like this :

                   ___                                           ___
                  | S |___                                   ___| D |
                  |___| P |___                           ___| ᴎ |___|
                  | K |___| T |___                   ___| I |___| C |
                  |___| M |___| * |___     _     ___| A |___| $ |___|
                      |___| F |___| N |   / \   | O |___| Ł |___|
                          |___| R |___|  /   \  |___| U |___|
                              |___| L | /  Y  \ | E |___|
                                  |___||       ||___|
                                        \_____/

                ___________________________________________________________
               |TAB  |  S|  P|  T|  *|  N|   |  O|  A|  I|  ᴎ|  D|   |Enter|
               |_____|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|     |
               |MAJ   | K | M | F | R | L | Y | E | U | Ł | $ | C |   |  ⏎ |
               |______|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|____|
               | ⇧  |   |   |   |   |  L|  Y|Y  |E  |   |   |   |⇧         |
               |____|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__________|

I think it's a better idea because it will work with any keyboard not
with Noppoo Choc keyboard only. I'm using sidwinder.

Good continuation

–
Aziz Yemloul

[Aziz Yemloul]

Hi Rafael,

Maybe i misunderstand some of your points. About debouncing, i think that
plover consider the chord (stroke) when the last key of the said chord
is released. Is deboucing make always sens in that case ?

About the layout, you put the home position for thumbs on the same line
as the other fingers. I find this position very stressing for the
hands. Making the thumbs stay in a low row, as in the Ward Stone Ireland
machine, was the first thing a did when a began to play with plover
because i found it more natural position.

Finally, helping all of us to use plover with your future theory on a
standard layout keyboard is not just a ideal. It's in my opinion a kind
of a requirement.

Hope to see a wide explanation of your theory soon

Thank you

Rafael Quintana <metodoq...@yahoo.es> writes:

> Hi :
>
> It could be better for all of us to use a standard layout keyboard, but there is a problem: their
> key rows are staggered, they are diagonalized. This is a serious problem to have the best touch.
> The Stenograph shorthand machines have a gridded layout, not staggered. This layout must be
> reproduced in the computer keyboard. That is the reason to use the Noppoo Choc, the only full NKRO
> commercial keyboard with two grid rows: the function keys. That´s right.
> Respect to the Grandjean layout, as usual in Europe, I learned with it, its V-shape looks
> ergonomic, but trust me, I have practiced long time with it and the gridded american layout is
> better: better for pressing, better for remembering, ergonomic and with a modern layout compatible
> with computer keyboards.
>
> See this update of the state-of-the-art Noppoo Choco Mini 84 keyboard (2013 version):
>
> [P1040353]
>
> A feature not found in many other keyboards is the ability to adjust the debounce. Debounce is how
> much the keyboard needs to aggregate signals into a single "press" that is sent to the computer.
> This is necessary due to the simple fact that we're moving from an analog to digital system. All
> mechanical keys in any industry face the same problem; the physical nature of a switch means that
> it will bounce between on and off states VERY quickly near the point of actuation either due to the
> key bouncing, or minute arcing from the contacts when they're close. Since we're working on
> keyboards either polling at crazy fast rates over USB or directly interrupting the system with a PS
> /2 input, all of those will register as key presses. If debounce were not included, we'd see
> something akin to having 10 letters register on each key press.
>
> Debounce helps this problem by allowing the keyboard to take all inputs from within a set time
> frame, and register it only as a single press. Inherently a necessary solution, but in some cases
> the default time intervals might be too short (double presses), or too long (reduced input rate due
> to clustering too many inputs into one).
> Fn and F10/F11 either increase or decrease the debounce on the keyboard, enabling you to adjust for
> keys that might be double tapping or if you're particularly insane/sensitive, the ability to adjust
> the debounce down to increase your WPM/APM. your mileage may vary.

>
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