Spanish System (eo variant) - Plover Plugin

[Eliseo Ocampos]

Hi all!

In the past weeks I was developing a system plugin for Plover to use with Spanish. Theories for this languages are hard to learn outside specialized institutions (and they are not free either), so I decided I get it a shot: https://github.com/roskoff/plover_spanish_system_eo_variant

I designed the system with a few considerations in mind:

- It should use standard steno layout (useful to go back and forth with English).

- It should be more important that rules are consistent rather that highly abbreviated/compressed.

- It should be predominantly syllabic.

Feel free to ask any questions here (or reach at me on Plover's Discord server, I'm usually more active there).

I'm open to get any improvement recommendation you may have and let me know if it is useful to any of you!

:D

Disclaimer: I'm sorry if this feels a little spammy, it's a crosspost from reddit.

P.D. for Spanish speakers: Resumiendo un poco, desarrollé un plugin para Plover denominado "Sistema Español (variante eo)", el cual pretende proveer una manera de usar el teclado estándar americano de estenotipia. Para más detalles sobre el sistema pueden ver el repositorio en github (está redactado en español ;).

[Noelia Ruiz]

Hello, I"ve reading some info about your system in Spanish. Congrats for great documentation about your theory. I"m using Plover in Spanish too, with a plugin which implements the Spanish Melani system with Italian keyboard, customized by a friend and me for our job. The theory used by us is not documented due to time, though the source code is available on GitHub.

This is just to aknowledge your work. I"ll share the last release of our plugin for Spanish Melani system in a different thread.

Kind regards

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 11 mar 2021, a las 0:43, Eliseo Ocampos <ros...@gmail.com> escribió:



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[Eliseo Ocampos]

Thank you!

I saw your repos, both of you did a great job with python dictionaries! Unfortunately, learning material for Spanish Melani is almost impossible to find online so I give up trying to learn that theory. But on a positive side, I'm happy that people that already know Spanish Melani have the opportunity to use it with Plover thanks to you!

[Noelia Ruiz]

Thanks, I"m happy for your work too, so that people using other theories in Spanish can learn them.

Melani system has, in a super short summary, two groups of vowels and consonants, one for left and other one for right hand, so that for instance the word "casa" can be writen in a unique stroke. There are b and v, to write words like the classic example of vaca and baca, in this case also with a unique stroke, and also g and j. We added, in our customization, ll initial and final, to write for example llanto or sello in a unique stroke, and we have also a theory to write verbs, for example: SPCTNn (Xn) would be reflexion, with final r would be reflexionar, infinitive, and Xn - Aneo would be reflexionan, Xn - RAneo would be reflexionaran, in two strokes, etc. These kind of verbs are included in double.py dictionary, and single contains characters initial and final (for left or right hand). In short, this is not phonetic, like other spanish theories. It considers ortographic rules and asterisk is also used for accents.

Kind regards and thanks for your word. I may share it.

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 11 mar 2021, a las 18:50, Eliseo Ocampos <ros...@gmail.com> escribió:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ploversteno/f2a8474d-d9ca-49ff-a53e-0ea8a739cfbfn%40googlegroups.com.

[Eliseo Ocampos]

Looks really interesting. These rules you mentioned, are Spanish Melani theory specific? Or it is just the way you implemented your plugin? I'm curious because, as I said in my former message, there is little to no info available about Melani, not even a blog post that can resume at least common rules and the like.

[Noelia Ruiz]

Melani theory for spanish has certain rules like two sets of characters named initial and final, for left and right hand, and different homophonic characters like g and j, or b and v. In my job, from 2000 year until today, we increased Melani database from in about 20000 entries or more, considering that each entry doesn"t correspond to a stroke, since there are entries who implement subset of characters that can be combined with other ones in the same stroke. So, we customized Melani theory a lot, creating a way to make plurars for words finished with os, descendant numbers (and double), ll initial and final, and also a way for verbs like caminar ("primera conjugación) and other ones. The plugin uses Python dictionaries to implement rules contained in original Melani theory and our added rules, based on the original. Melani system uses a database and allows also to use combinations like Mca for "mucha" if it is a word or "mica" if you want to write for example "quí - mica" (qui - Mca). In short, rules are containded in Melani theory, some of them are added as a customization, and both kind of rules are implemented in the plugin. Python dictionaries allows to avoid to write a lot of entries with the possibility of forgetting some word. It"s easier to know rules too, though json files are still used. Hope this helps.

Enviado desde mi iPhone

El 11 mar 2021, a las 21:29, Eliseo Ocampos <ros...@gmail.com> escribió:

Looks really interesting. These rules you mentioned, are Spanish Melani theory specific? Or it is just the way you implemented your plugin? I'm curious because, as I said in my former message, there is little to no info available about Melani, not even a blog post that can resume at least common rules and the like.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ploversteno/4761ebb7-ed0b-4df3-98f4-6e014192fd89n%40googlegroups.com.

[Eliseo Ocampos]

Amazing, you did an outstanding job maturing a customized version of Melani! I'm talking with a friend that explained me more about the system, I'm starting to have a better understanding of your plugin :D

[Noelia]

Enjoy! Tomorrow I'm releasing version 1.0.5 adding just two words:
"competición", as the seccond item of the tuple: ("Competitivos",
Competición"), which will be writen as "MPveo*". Since * has no
meaning when it's combined, this will work well. And competiciones
will be MPve*. * is after all characters, since we changed keys order
following the original Melani theory.
Using Python dictionaries we borrowed a lot of numbers since with a
rule and a few entries in a dictionary it can be done
Also, Plover allows to delete translations made with strokes, instead
of complete words, and I find this much more convenient than the
behavior of Winsteno, the proprietary source software used for the
original Melani system.
Plover is amazing!

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[Flavio Egoavil]

Hi, defunkydrummer here. I saw Roskoff's dictionary and plugin some days ago and commented on the Reddit Plover group. I have since suscribed here, considering there is sufficient activity!

As Roskoff says, i mentioned to him the melani system, about which I only know the layout and Melani's picture, since information about the rules of the system is unobtainium.

Would you please share the URL to your repository?

The Melani system uses a different layout than the standard US Steno system. I am considering the idea of creating a system where the layout is almost exactly the same as the US steno system, but the last four TSDZ keys are used fo vowels via combinations.

My initial idea is to have TD = A,

SZ= O

DZ = I

This allows to write terminations like "SA" as TSD,

"TE" like "TDZ",

"EO" like "SDZ", you get the idea.

Ending plurals could just be added by a subsequent "S*" stroke or by some combinations with implicit plural, like:

"AS" is "TSD"

 

In this way, the user won't really have to learn a new layout, but would be able to leverage Melani's idea of having a second set of vowels.

Best regards,

Flavio / defunkydrummer

[Flavio Egoavil]

Sorry... typo: The idea is that "DZ" forms the vowel E, not "I". Seems my brain is confusing english with spanish...

All hail Mirabai!

[Noelia]

Hello, I have just released version 1.0.5 some minutes ago.
We (a friend and me) changed layout of original Melani system (just
naming h as n). We make plurals ended with "os" in spanish with "eo*",
with some exceptions.
Here is layout and repo url:
Layout (copying from system source code):

# #SPCTHVRIAEOcsthpr*ieao
KEYS = (
# '#',
'S-', 'P-', 'C-', 'T-', 'N-', 'V-', 'R-',
'I-', 'A-',
'-E', '-O',
'-c', '-s', '-t', '-n', '-p', '-r',
# '*',
'-i', '-e', '-a', '-o',
'*', '#'
)



Repo:

https://github.com/nvdaes/plover_spanish_mqd

Kind regards

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[Eliseo Ocampos]

Robert,

Thank you too. It's still a work in progress so I'm planning some adjustments.

I took your recommendation and already created an issue to translate the documentation :D

Best,

Eliseo.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 3:26 PM Robert Winkler <robert.wi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot, Eliseo,

please keep us informed about your progress!

I write in English, German and Spanish. Up to now, I use Steno only for
English.

A different layout would be a dealbreaker for me. Sticking with the standard
Plover layout might be less efficient, but great for multilingual
writing.

I think, your design choices are very reasonable.

Maybe, the documentation could be in English. Most interested users
probably come from Plover.

Best regards,
Robert

Excerpts from Eliseo Ocampos's message of 2021-03-11 09:50:05 -0800:

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