where to buy plover keyboard?

[Candy K]

I can't seem to find any links to it, and I don't see the ploverboard in the store at stenoknight.com. can someone please post a link? 

[Robert Fontaine]

mmm ploverboard... great name. now all we need is someone to build it.

On 8/28/15, Candy K <cklau...@sasktel.net> wrote:
> I can't seem to find any links to it, and I don't see the ploverboard in
> the store at stenoknight.com. can someone please post a link?
>

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[Theodore Morin]

Candy,

Maybe you are thinking of the Stenoboard: http://stenoboard.com/

The other open source steno keyboard, the Stenosaurus, is not out yet and will be coming to a crowd funding campaign some time in the future.

Ted

[Robert Fontaine]

I we had a nice little top plate made that fit the planck 40%
programmable keyboard you could hand wire a very atractive little
ploverboard for under 200 with an aluminum shell and an arduino
teensy.

I may break down and do it at some time in the near future as waiting
for the as it may or may not ever ship. I would guess it wouldn't be
hard to sell a few top plates in order to get a decent price to make
myself one or two.

[Candy K]

Okay, thanks for responding to me, I guess I misunderstood. Can you please explain to me then, how are you all using plover? What do I need to do to set myself up to use it? I love the idea, and am ready to go, but don't understand how you all are doing this with your keyboards. I saw the picture online of a modified (?) keyboard, how can I do that? 

I saw the price of the stenoboard, but I am in Canada, and that would likely cost me more than modifying my own keyboard. 

I also looked up the keyboard that, in the video and on plover.org, was stated to cost only $45 or $50. But when I looked up that keyboard (the microsoft one) it was 127.00 or so dollars today on Amazon.com. I cannot find that particular keyboard here in Canada. Can anyone help me with suggestions as to what I might try? I did try my keyboard on the site where one could test their keyboard, and mine had only a few characters missing, but they were missing, nonetheless, so I guess I can't use my current keyboard. 

Any help and advice you would offer me is greatly appreciated. From the video, I thought that there was an actual plover keyboard available for purchase, that's how I ended up here, because I couldn't for the life of me find that keyboard she has pictured on plover.org and her video. Help!! 

Thanks, and have a great day/night. 

[Candy K]

Thanks, Robert, I think that is way above my own expertise. I love open source, but I don't know if I can handwire anything. What's an arduino teensy? I saw that term on the plover.org site (or somewhere in my searches today), but it seems to be way above my capabilities. I think. Are there step by step instructions? I don't know if I can do that. 

[Theodore Morin]

To get started, all you need is a regular keyboard with a special feature called N-key rollover (NKRO, aka anti-ghosting). It lets the computer receive all the key presses at once. That is how you use Plover with a regular keyboard.

Others use real steno machine protocols that don't mimic normal keyboards, bit those are still pretty expensive.

The sidewinder was cheaper once upon a time, but has been discontinued. In Canada, a mechanical keyboard by Corsair that has NKRO would do. About 80 dollars at one of Canada Computers, ShopRBC, or NCIX. You want one with "red" cherry switches, as they are the lightest.

The bare minimum requirement is NKRO to use Plover properly. You can also purchase little key toppers from the Plover store to make the keys easier to hit.

[Candy K]

Wonderful! Now I understand what those thingies are in the store! And now to hear you explain it the way you just did made all the information I took in today come together. Thanks for your time, and I will be hunting down that keyboard at one of the stores you mentioned. Thank you so much!

[Achim Siebert]

I started with Plover only two months ago, so I faced the same questions. For the keyboards I had, I had to switch on the "arpeggiated" mode in Plover's preferences for NKRO keyboards. This is sufficient for a first glimpse into how it all works and to learn placement of letters on a steno keyboard - you don't have to hit all the keys at once in this mode, but can type one after the other and then the space bar to finish the "stroke".

Then I found a used Microsoft Sidewinder and with this you can switch off the arpeggiated mode and strike all needed keys at once. Sticking the keycaps available here onto it makes it a bit more similar to a real steno machine and works rather well, and up to now I learned the 400 most used words with the help of the exercises on qwertysteno.com using it. I'm still rather slow (about 20 wpm for newly learned words, 40 wpm for the "top 100" words and 60 wpm for the "word beginnings" and "word endings" lessons).

My Stenoboard arrived yesterday, it's available here (the link is for the already mostly assembled one):

http://utopen.com/stenoboard-kits/21-stenoboard-11-kit.html#/electronics-assembled_pcbs_and_c/plastic_parts-black_hq_plastic_par

It still comes in parts and you'll have to attach lots of cables and screw all the parts together (there's online documentation and a video available to help with this). This might be a bit of a challenge if you never tinkered with electronics, though. So if you're afraid of that, maybe Emanuele, who made all of this happen, could send you a completely assembled Stenoboard - for him it will probably only be a few minutes work to put it together. I needed about two hours to assemble it, but I took my time and also tried out the electronics before mounting them into the two cases to assure all the cables were in the right places. You'll need a standard micro USB cable to connect it to your computer. The big advantage if that you can then switch Plover to TX Bolt or Gemini mode (and switch the Stenoboard to the same mode). Then you can just leave Plover running and use both a usual qwerty-keyboard and the Stenoboard at the same time without interference.

The Stenoboard has a much lighter touch than the Sidewinder, and it has the keys in the "correct" places, so it will be possible to reach much higher speed with it. The vowel keys are sitting quite low, I will probably put some caps on it (maybe cardboard and leather on top). Since I only had it for one day, I still have to get used to it - the finger placement is rather different from what I was used to until now. My current goal is to reach the speed I have with touch typing (about 60-70 wpm). Then if I'm convinced that I'll stick with steno hopefully there'll be the Stenosaurus as a next step (though I fear it's an abandoned project by now). Or I might go with a used Mira or Treal or similar.

Unfortunately Stenograph machines have ridiculous prices, though I think the new Luminex would be really nice (I love the looks of the purple one with black keys ...). There's quite a lot of alternatives once you decide to spend 1500 $ or more (LIghtspeed, Infinity Ergonomic) - but I'd be very reluctant since I think those machines are way overpriced. It's a way of motivation for me, though: "Once I'll reach 180 wpm, I'll reward myself with a Luminex", if that's ever going to happen (it might be unrealistic since I'm 52 and learning something new goes much slower than it used to 20 or 30 years ago). I'll probably rather spend the >5000$ for a new acoustic piano with silent mode - I'd get many more keys to play with that way ;-).

[Robert Fontaine]

Unless it is earning you money the price of a stenography machine is
outrageous. Even for students who wish to learn stenography the up
front price is silly. Hence plover.

That said a reasonably priced properly configured steno keyboard is a
significant barrier to people replacing qwerty with the fundamentally
more efficient stenography. It is a shame as plover makes a lot more
sense in a world where we all now type with computers rather than ink
ribbons.

I dabble occasionally but have back burnered making any real
commitment to learning stenography till I have an appropriate
keyboard. I played with plover on a standard keyboard for a bit to
get an understanding but learning the hand skill on a qwerty keyboard
is awkward and not terribly rewarding compared to my normal touch
typing.

On 8/29/15, Achim Siebert <achim....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I started with Plover only two months ago, so I faced the same questions.
> For the keyboards I had, I had to switch on the "arpeggiated" mode in
> Plover's preferences for NKRO keyboards. This is sufficient for a first
> glimpse into how it all works and to learn placement of letters on a steno
> keyboard - you don't have to hit all the keys at once in this mode, but can
>
> type one after the other and then the space bar to finish the "stroke".
> Then I found a used Microsoft Sidewinder and with this you can switch off
> the arpeggiated mode and strike all needed keys at once. Sticking the
> keycaps available here

> <http://plover.deco-craft.com/shop/view_product/Laser-Cut-Steno-Keys-Kit?n=2910988&pn=1>

> <http://stenosaurus.com> as a next step (though I fear it's an abandoned

> project by now). Or I might go with a used Mira or Treal or similar.
>
> Unfortunately Stenograph machines have ridiculous prices, though I think
> the new Luminex would be really nice (I love the looks of the purple one
> with black keys ...). There's quite a lot of alternatives once you decide
> to spend 1500 $ or more (LIghtspeed, Infinity Ergonomic) - but I'd be very
> reluctant since I think those machines are way overpriced. It's a way of
> motivation for me, though: "Once I'll reach 180 wpm, I'll reward myself
> with a Luminex", if that's ever going to happen (it might be unrealistic
> since I'm 52 and learning something new goes much slower than it used to 20
>
> or 30 years ago). I'll probably rather spend the >5000$ for a new acoustic
> piano with silent mode - I'd get many more keys to play with that way ;-).
>
>

[Harvey]

Keep in mind that steno machines aren't necessarily that expensive. I bought my Stentura 400 SRT for $200 plus $40 shipping. That's not so bad compared to the prices of newer steno machines.

I use my steno machine to write to my computer normally, to my friends, to write whatever I want to. I think that was made easier by using a real steno machine instead of a keyboard or something. There it the whole inconvenience factor though; these machines are almost always very bulky and cumbersome. I just want to use the keys, but there's a paper roll thing and the machine itself is so much bigger than just the keyboard. I wish a good intermediate board existed with levers like normal steno machines. Or, I just wish the Stenosaurus would come out already.

[Mirabai Knight]

Stenosaurus update from Josh yesterday:

"I just last night sent the printed circuit board designs for
fabrication. I will have them in-hand around Labor Day. I will build
the first assembed board within a day or two of receiving them and
will then start testing. Kurt and I met earlier this week and nailed
down a plan for what I hope is the final case design. It's slightly
different than what you've seen, but I think it's actually better and
nicer looking. I'll be damned if it's 2016."

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[Harvey]

That sounds fantastic. I'm so glad.

Just a question, do you know if it's going to have the option for wide it asterisk and DZ keys? I'm sure anyone using Plover theory will want to have them.

[Mirabai Knight]

Yep, wide everything will be default.

On Aug 29, 2015 11:22 PM, "Harvey" <gden...@gmail.com> wrote:

That sounds fantastic. I'm so glad.

Just a question, do you know if it's going to have the option for wide it asterisk and DZ keys? I'm sure anyone using Plover theory will want to have them.

--

[Ellis Pratt]

I understand CE marking and certification is the reason why the Stenoboard is sold as a kit and not fully assembled.

If you can assemble Ikea furniture, you should be able to connect all the StenoBoard bits together. 

[Candy K]

Hey Ted, 

Thanks for all your info. I have been shopping around for an NKRO keyboard, and I wonder if a 10 key rollover keyboard would be good enough? Do you, or does anyone else know? How many keys, using Plover would I potentially need to press at one time? If I could find an NKRO keyboard that allows for that many keys to be pressed at one time, would that be a suitable keyboard? 

I'm just trying to find a keyboard in my physical area at a store that I could use. So far I've found a Razer, but it's not the Tarantula. 

Thanks everyone for your help. I sooo appreciate it and can't wait to get started on the lessons. BTY, if anyone can answer this question today before stores close (5 pm CST), that would be even better. I'm in a hurry to get started, I'm losing money at my transcription job using touch typing. 

--Candyk 

[Theodore Morin]

Ten won't do past a certain point, and usually keyboards like that are not great because 10 is an "upper limit" and often clustered keys will reduce it.

Let's think of a regular stroke like... "glades". That's TKPWHRAEUDZ. That's 11 keys. So it does come up. I'd look for full NKRO.

​

[Candy K]

Ok, thank you very much Ted. I'll keep searching. 

--Candyk

[Achim Siebert]

I first bought a keyboard that has only the usual 6-kro (Cherry MX board 3.0). It has those wonderful brown switches that are a real pleasure to write qwerty with.

And there's a little trick to make it work with Plover: "arpeggiate" your hands. I.e. strike the keys of the left hand, then the one's of the right hand, then lift the left hand, then the right hand. All strokes will be transmitted to the computer (at least it works on my iMac). So it can be used without the "arpeggiated" setting in Plover. Sufficient to get into steno.

A better solution would be the MX board 6.0 which has full NKRO, but it's three times as expensive.

I wish the Stenoboard would use Cherry switches (red or brown) - those need very little pressure.

For the price of the gaming keyboards that have full NKRO you could also buy the Stenoboard or a used Stenograph 400 SRT.

Good luck for your search, Achim.

[Hesky Fisher]

Hi Candy,

This keyboard may work well for you:

http://www.amazon.ca/QuickFire-Rapid-Tenkeyless-Mechanical-Keyboard-Switches/dp/B007VDLVD4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1441556606&sr=8-3&keywords=nkro+keyboard

Hesky

--

[Charles J. Daniels]

This is the one I just recently got for $80-US, it supports full rollover, and is on the list of known compatible keyboards:

http://www.amazon.ca/Logitech-Mechanical-Keyboard-Tactile-High-Speed/dp/B009C98NPY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441611010&sr=8-1&keywords=logitech+g710%2B