How long to get to 70WPM with Plover??
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clickclack123
Oct 15, 2015, 12:22:40 AM10/15/15
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I know this must have been asked a million times before, but how long would I expect it to take to learn steno??
ATM I'm almost a total beginner, I've done the first lesson in Learn Plover! but I keep redoing it as I still haven't memorized where the keys are.
I type at about 70wpm using the Dvorak layout, and I'm just trying to get an idea of how long I could expect it to take me to get to that level assuming about 4 days a week of 30 minutes at a time learning and practicing using Plover.
ATM I'm almost a total beginner, I've done the first lesson in Learn Plover! but I keep redoing it as I still haven't memorized where the keys are.
I type at about 70wpm using the Dvorak layout, and I'm just trying to get an idea of how long I could expect it to take me to get to that level assuming about 4 days a week of 30 minutes at a time learning and practicing using Plover.
Theodore Morin
Oct 15, 2015, 12:36:25 AM10/15/15
to Plover
It changes so much, person to person! I'd say at either end you could be a quick learner and have it down in a month, or slowly 70WPM would be near guaranteed in 6 months (with that amount of practice time.)
I'm attaching a screenshot of my first year on TypeRacer using Plover. It took me 3 months to average 70, and I hovered there for about another 3 months. Definitely didn't do 30 minutes a day for 4 days a week during that time, though. So it could very well go faster for you.
There is more fun to it than speed, too :) comfort is HUGE
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clickclack123
Oct 15, 2015, 1:46:00 AM10/15/15
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Thanks for the (quick!) reply.
That's good news, doesn't seem like too big an investment in time for me with the potential to hopefully double my speed in a couple of years.
Funny, steno seems nothing but uncomfortable for me so far... ;-P The most uncomfortable part is that because I haven't been through the lessons yet (except the first one), most words I have no idea how to write at all!!
That's good news, doesn't seem like too big an investment in time for me with the potential to hopefully double my speed in a couple of years.
Funny, steno seems nothing but uncomfortable for me so far... ;-P The most uncomfortable part is that because I haven't been through the lessons yet (except the first one), most words I have no idea how to write at all!!
Theodore Morin
Oct 15, 2015, 9:44:18 AM10/15/15
to Plover
The discomfort goes quick, it'll click and you'll start *speaking* with your keyboard. It's a very cool feeling :)
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Brent Nesbitt
Oct 15, 2015, 9:44:23 AM10/15/15
to Plover
Once you start to learn to think in sounds, it becomes really fun - kind of like sign language, I would imagine - as your fingers learn to form the shape of the sounds, just like your mouth does.
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Mirabai Knight
Oct 15, 2015, 9:50:13 AM10/15/15
to ploversteno
More like Cued Speech than Sign Language! Cued Speech and steno have a
lot in common.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plPw4H-ZsMg
--
Mirabai Knight, CCP, RDR
StenoKnight CART Services
917 576 4989
m...@stenoknight.com
http://stenoknight.com
lot in common.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plPw4H-ZsMg
Mirabai Knight, CCP, RDR
StenoKnight CART Services
917 576 4989
m...@stenoknight.com
http://stenoknight.com
Theodore Morin
Oct 15, 2015, 9:54:19 AM10/15/15
to ploversteno
Do most deaf people understand cued speech? If I want to achieve a basic proficiency to help communicate with deaf people, would sign language or cued speech be a better investment considering time-to-value ratio?
Mirabai Knight
Oct 15, 2015, 9:58:48 AM10/15/15
to ploversteno
Cued speech is pretty rare as a communication mode, though I know a
few people who use Cued Speech and have found it invaluable for
developing literacy skills. About 2% of people with hearing loss
(mostly those in the severe to profound range who were born deaf or
lost their hearing before the age of 2) know ASL; the other 98% lost
their hearing after learning their first language, and are more helped
by captioning and, to some degree, speechreading plus auxiliary
equipment like hearing aids, cochlear implants, and FM systems.
So I'd say ASL is better to learn, because you've got a bigger
population of ASL signers than Cued Speech users. But steno
proficiency is better still, because you're able to caption, and
that's accessible to almost everyone, with the exception of people who
have good ASL skills but poor English literacy, which is a small but
nontrivial segment of prelingually Deaf people.
The main advantage of Cued Speech, though, is that the basics of it
can be learned in a day or two, and then it just takes practice to add
speed and fluency. ASL is a complete and extremely complex language,
so even after three years of studying it, I was only barely
conversational in it.
few people who use Cued Speech and have found it invaluable for
developing literacy skills. About 2% of people with hearing loss
(mostly those in the severe to profound range who were born deaf or
lost their hearing before the age of 2) know ASL; the other 98% lost
their hearing after learning their first language, and are more helped
by captioning and, to some degree, speechreading plus auxiliary
equipment like hearing aids, cochlear implants, and FM systems.
So I'd say ASL is better to learn, because you've got a bigger
population of ASL signers than Cued Speech users. But steno
proficiency is better still, because you're able to caption, and
that's accessible to almost everyone, with the exception of people who
have good ASL skills but poor English literacy, which is a small but
nontrivial segment of prelingually Deaf people.
The main advantage of Cued Speech, though, is that the basics of it
can be learned in a day or two, and then it just takes practice to add
speed and fluency. ASL is a complete and extremely complex language,
so even after three years of studying it, I was only barely
conversational in it.
Mirabai Knight
Oct 15, 2015, 9:59:31 AM10/15/15
to ploversteno
Here's a pretty evenhanded blog by someone who prefers Cued Speech but
also knows ASL: https://acroakingdalek.wordpress.com/
also knows ASL: https://acroakingdalek.wordpress.com/
clickclack123
Oct 15, 2015, 6:26:10 PM10/15/15
to Plover
Very interesting everyone!
Yes, I find with normal typing it takes a bit of my brain power to think out the spelling for each letter, which slows me down a bit and distracts from what I am actually trying to write. I imagine that with Plover, eventually you'd be just thinking the sound of the whole word. It's just so complicated and unintuitive to me at the moment! Anyway of course it'll get easier with practice.
It'd be so useful to be able to type at the speed of speaking...
Yes, I find with normal typing it takes a bit of my brain power to think out the spelling for each letter, which slows me down a bit and distracts from what I am actually trying to write. I imagine that with Plover, eventually you'd be just thinking the sound of the whole word. It's just so complicated and unintuitive to me at the moment! Anyway of course it'll get easier with practice.
It'd be so useful to be able to type at the speed of speaking...
Wiley Wolf
Oct 17, 2015, 8:37:09 PM10/17/15
to Plover
I'm afraid I just have to weigh in here and be a big downer. Hats off to Ted, but from my experience this "100 words a minute in six months" is a bit optimistic. I've been going for six months, practising quite diligently, and I can comfortably do 40wpm. 60 is a bit fast for me, unless the language is really simple. I made no progress at all with the Learn Plover stuff, so I bought the Sten Ed program. The programs I've looked at seem to suggest that after a year of practising an hour a day you could expect to be at 80wpm, and from my experience that seems about right. There's also a blog I often look at where someone's documenting her experience with Court Reporting At Home, and after nearly eighteen months she has yet to pass her 80wpm test. So I think maybe ask yourself if you're really prepared to put in a year of consistent practice. (I'm in. I've done six months and I'm not going to stop now, but I suspect a lot of people just underestimate how hard and time-consuming steno really is.)
Theodore Morin
Oct 17, 2015, 9:14:56 PM10/17/15
to Plover
Thanks for the input! I wonder if there's a correlation between QWERTY speed, steno speed, and machine type!
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Wiley Wolf
Oct 17, 2015, 10:26:07 PM10/17/15
to Plover
Yes, interesting. I expected to be good at steno. I can QWERTY type 100 wpm, have a background in piano, have perfect spelling and so on. And I do progress in steno, but it's SO SLOW. I have an elan cybra, if that's of any interest.
Theodore Morin
Oct 17, 2015, 10:39:21 PM10/17/15
to Plover
What's your main method of practice? I'm a TypeRacer myself but I've heard of Glen's article drilling which is pretty fun, too.
Glen Warner
Oct 18, 2015, 2:21:37 AM10/18/15
to Plover
Hi, Ted.
Glad you're finding Cheap and Sleazy to be of some use ...! Which article did you mean? I have a few available:
http://www.cheapandsleazy.net/heaven.html (*NOTE: (still) unfinished!*)
... but if you're just starting out, it might be a good idea to check out The Magic Drill:
And you find the associated video here:
Good luck!
--gdw
Achim Siebert
Oct 18, 2015, 7:29:08 AM10/18/15
to Plover
I'm in the same boat - using a Cybra since a few days, having had piano lessons for a few years, but steno still goes really slow after 3-4 months. For the top 100 words on qwertysteno.com I'm at about 60 wpm now, for the rest on that page at 30-40 wpm. New texts are not really measurable, since I usually have to look up some words first, and then I can go up to 40 if I repeat it several (or rather many, many) times. Still mixing up e.g. the S- and the K- quite often.
I totally fail in TypeRacer – I simply get too nervous in such a competitive situation . That's why I bought "Master Key" yesterday, which is a lot of fun and suits me better. It's available in the App Store and from this Web page:
The advantage being that you can use your own texts, set your own wpm goal and it keeps your progress saved automatically. Looks somewhat outdated, but works just fine so far.
So I guess a year is a good approximation to get to your qwerty speed (which is only about 80 wpm on good days for me). But progress is apparently very different from person to person.
For now I'm mostly concentrating on learning all the briefs and words that are not self-evident to me. I keep a list of those words open in my editor that I then convert to a cvs file to import into Provoc. Now I will probably use Master Key as well to learn those words. I guess having a good steno vocabulary should take precedence, speed will come automatically later as it did for touch typing – strokes I don't know slow me down most of all. This posting alone made me append four or five "new" words to my list.
Best, Achim.
Wiley Wolf
Oct 18, 2015, 4:58:14 PM10/18/15
to Plover
First I practised the exercises in the theory books for about three months, which made me at least know how to steno a wide range of language, but then I realised I was just horrendously slow, (10-15 wpm) so I started using Typeracer, where I've improved from my initial speed of 10 wpm to my current 40-60, top speed 75. So that took another three months. Now I can actually work on real dictation at 60 wpm, so as time goes on I have a wider range of sources to use. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not complaining about Plover or anything, I'm just saying my progress has been very much the speed I was led to believe it would be by traditional steno courses, so 100 wpm is a goal for twelve months, not six.
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