Fwd: Pirillo Starts Large Scale Community CMS Project
Nate Aune
http://chris.pirillo.com/2008/03/26/were-taking-an-open-direction-with-web-communities-are-you-in/
Read Techcrunch's take on it - http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/27/pirillo-starts-large-scale-community-cms-project/
Maybe we need more than just a Google Group for this project. A domain name such as Plone4Communities.org or something like that? It might help to bring the project some more visibility. Chris' manifesto and video are being widely distributed no doubt which is helping to fuel energy and grow mindshare for his ideas.
Nate
From: matt ludwig. <ma...@mattludwig.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 8:14 AM
Subject: Pirillo Starts Large Scale Community CMS Project
To: Nate Aune <na...@jazkarta.com>
--
Nate Aune - na...@jazkarta.com
company: http://jazkarta.com
blog: http://nateaune.com
twitter: http://twitter.com/natea
Dylan Jay
Dunno, he sounds over excited yet vague to me but his main point is – social network out of the box or he’s talking about collaborative filtering type stuff.
I might me wrong but I think everyone has a different idea about what a community should be. What the rules of intereaction are. My goal would to allow people to create a huge variety of communities by plugging in a few opensocial modules in plone and configuring them.
Should we do something by aiming big and risk having vaporware or should we get the few people who actually need the code now to sprint or collaborate on a useful start to the architecture? And then publisize it? I think the best projects in the plone world have started with some real code with real needs, like plone4artists or getpaid. Then again, maybe its time to do something different?
Dylan Jay
Actually the more I read, the more it seems that most of what he wants. Easy to install plugins that play nice in one UI… plone already has. Is Drupal really that backward?
Maybe I’m being closed minded. Plone community has always just done its thing in isolation. Maybe creating a “name” will get the kind of support we need to make this happen quicker.
Is plonesocial the right name? We’re not about creating a new CMS and its about adding more social facilities to plone so seems good to me. But perhaps not sticky enough.
From: plone-socia...@googlegroups.com [mailto:plone-socia...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Aune
Sent: Friday, 28 March 2008 12:38
AM
To: plone-socia...@googlegroups.com
Christian Scholz / Tao Takashi (SL)
Having somebody like Chris Pirillo behind a project means lots of coverage (as you can see) but Drupal is more known than we are.
What we want in the end is not make a new CMS but make Plone more "social" (at least in my understanding). Thus plonesocial is just a mean to make Plone cooler. But that alone does not solve the problem that nobody cares how cool we are if nobody knows about it.
Maybe it even helps to advertise the cool stuff we already have such as inline editing (look at the others and see how much behind they are not technically but in usability).
-- Christian
Christian Scholz
Tao Takashi (Second Life name)
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Patrick
You've got the experience with P4A.
My guess would be that usually a buzz is created not so much because
of a manifesto, but because something specific really appeals to
people. A manifesto may attract some people who go for the buzz for a
short while, but then... for funding purposes it can work out well, if
you can create the team, and explode.
So.... all of this leads me to believe that if plone social cannot
even create a buzz inside its own plone community, it's difficult to
see how you can attract a buzz outside of it, and even more attract
the coders to build it (which automatically have to come from
within).
So perhaps the better question should be: what is it in "social", that
does not appeal to a large group of Plone developers, to the extent
that they want to participate ? What WOULD appeal to them ?
Patrick
Patrick
You've got the experience with P4A.
My guess would be that usually a buzz is created not so much because
of a manifesto, but because something specific really appeals to
people. A manifesto may attract some people who go for the buzz for a
the buzz now, but how will that be in 2-3 months from now.
If you can build a team quickly, have clear milestones, such a hype
may work to get funding. Maybe that is his intention.
So.... all of this leads me to believe that if plone social cannot
even create a buzz inside its own plone community, it's difficult to
see how you can attract a buzz outside of it, and even more attract
the coders to build it (which automatically have to come from
within).
So perhaps the better question should be: what is it in "social", that
does not appeal to a large group of Plone developers, to the extent
Obama and with Bush/Rove, it all starts with an energized base.
Christian Scholz / Tao Takashi (SL)
Nate,
You've got the experience with P4A.
My guess would be that usually a buzz is created not so much because
of a manifesto, but because something specific really appeals to
people. A manifesto may attract some people who go for the buzz for a
short while, but then it fizzles. So this guy, whoever he is, may get
the buzz now, but how will that be in 2-3 months from now.
If you can build a team quickly, have clear milestones, such a hype
may work to get funding. Maybe that is his intention.
Chris is some internet celebrity based on former TV shows he hosted ;-)
I am not sure why he is doing this but I guess basically because he thinks it's a cool idea. He is like that sometimes.
I agree that we need to see what will happen after a while and if work actually is being done.
But it's definitely good to have somebody like Chris behind this because he is known and he can create buzz as you can see. So we should make sure that next time it's Plone he can make buzz about ;-)
So.... all of this leads me to believe that if plone social cannot
even create a buzz inside its own plone community, it's difficult to
see how you can attract a buzz outside of it, and even more attract
the coders to build it (which automatically have to come from
within).
I think it actually can have more appeal outside the Plone Community than inside ;-)
-- Christian
Dylan Jay
not one.
I believe, build it and they will come... IF its useful... and if it's not,
then nothing can save it anyway.
Resistance within Plone is from core developers I think is due to requests
to make the core bigger and not solely about being a CMS... and I think that
is great. Focus is everything. That drupal thing won't get far if it
continues with its lack of focused approach.
So whats our focus? Whats a concrete goal we can describe easily?
"Ability to make any Plone site viral" is my first thought. That means
either bringing in new people into a site or bringing in other members into
what your doing on a site.
I propose a virtual sprint on opensocial.invite. I'm in AU which pretty far
from any normal Plone sprint.
Dylan Jay
getting a project done "social sourcing"
http://www.plonegetpaid.com/updates/archive/2007/10/10/live-from-napoli
> -----Original Message-----
> From: plone-socia...@googlegroups.com [mailto:plone-social-
> netwo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
> Sent: Friday, 28 March 2008 11:06 AM
> To: Plone Social Networking
> Subject: Re: Pirillo Starts Large Scale Community CMS Project
>
>
Patrick
I am not a developer either but we work with (part of ) a team that is
great. I will ask him to join in a later moment as well. So.. we're
having this mix. This is cool.
"Social Sourcing": yeah. OK. I think we need to do 3 things to start,
from which the rest may (hopefully) follow:
1) define the focus
2) create a "nucleus" that is worth buzzing about
3) not piss off the core constituency.
1) I like the "make plone more viral" but I would definitely include
something like this: Plone is a CMS. So let's keep the core what it is
(so we dealt with 3)). So Plone is about content. Now you want to
share this content, discuss it with others, collaborate on content,
and support your content through "word of mouth" (=viral). So if we
want to make Plone social, then it's still all about a CMS; the
content therefore. However this is 2008, so no longer a "top down"
approach with one system admin who decides you're in and you're out.
But every content-maker can decide this now on his own and collaborate
and share. So we have:
1a) Content makers can create content in more flexible ways:
collaboration with people he/she wants to invite and work with.
1b) Content makers then want to publish their results
1c) Content makers then want obviously other people to use their
content. In order to use it, people will have to know about it. Hence
all types of viral marketing.
1a-c) some functionalities support both: sharing = collaboration but =
also viral marketing.
2) The core to perhaps mobilize more developers to join could be: the
invitation part. If you have the social graph inside plone, you can
then do 1a) and 1c). 1b) is a standard feature of plone. The
invitation part should be so flexible that it can seamlessly integrate
with all sorts of activities under 1a) and 1c)
3) If you keep the message "content centric" as described under 1) you
may not have the resistance of the hard-core Plone community, in fact
we may be able to mobilize them as well which is needed. If you want
to get the exposure then Alexander Limi should make such an
announcement.
Kamon Ayeva
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 1:54 AM, Dylan Jay <dja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Creating buzz is good if you need developers. Which chris does since he's
> not one.
>
> I believe, build it and they will come... IF its useful... and if it's not,
> then nothing can save it anyway.
>
> Resistance within Plone is from core developers I think is due to requests
> to make the core bigger and not solely about being a CMS... and I think that
> is great. Focus is everything. That drupal thing won't get far if it
> continues with its lack of focused approach.
>
> So whats our focus? Whats a concrete goal we can describe easily?
> "Ability to make any Plone site viral" is my first thought. That means
> either bringing in new people into a site or bringing in other members into
> what your doing on a site.
>
> I propose a virtual sprint on opensocial.invite. I'm in AU which pretty far
> from any normal Plone sprint.
+1 for a virtual sprint for getting started on that kind of feature.
Also, if some of you are close to Paris, we can try to get something
done, by combining with virtual attendance, at the coming Paris
sprint.
Cheers,
Kamon
Patrick
Is this a Plone3 *only* sprint ? In that case less interested. For
criteria (see discussion on component-model).
Patrick
Dylan Jay
platforms would be beneficial for everyone.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: plone-socia...@googlegroups.com [mailto:plone-social-
> netwo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
> Sent: Saturday, 29 March 2008 9:27 AM
> To: Plone Social Networking
> Subject: Re: Pirillo Starts Large Scale Community CMS Project
>
>
Patrick
OK great. I only mentioned it because the Paris Sprint is titled:
"Plone 3 Paris Sprint". So I wanted to make sure that if someone were
to participate it would not only be for plone 3. Having said that,
perhaps we can contribute a "virtual person" to join the sprint to
work on Plone social.
Am I correct to assume we agree that the inviting the social graph is
the first thing to work on, or is that too presumptuous ? I also think
that having that part ready and showcase on a few websites how it
connects to "content" and "sharing" or "collaboration", then we may
get more momentum: show that it is not threatening to the Plone core,
that the community can safely embrace it, and create some more buzz,
with which we could get more coders or some simple fundraising. ?
Patrick
only (upload and share of content and privacy related issues). Plone
is more a CMS, but.. what specifically is Plone strength relative to
Ning ? I would like to get a better idea of why we are doing this when
you also have Ning. My personal feeling is that things like "workflow"
and collaboration on the publication process are not dealt with in
Ning. Hence the "social side" would be a great addition in terms of
user generated, collaboration and viral marketing ? In other words,
what does Plone do that Ning does not do ?
Dylan Jay
what the Pirillo guy was talking about, we need something as easy as ning
but as extensible as Plone. You can't do whatever you want with ning.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: plone-socia...@googlegroups.com [mailto:plone-social-
> netwo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
> Sent: Sunday, 30 March 2008 7:46 PM
> To: Plone Social Networking
> Subject: Re: Pirillo Starts Large Scale Community CMS Project
>
>
Dylan Jay
not a paris sprint. I know nothing about that.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: plone-socia...@googlegroups.com [mailto:plone-social-
> netwo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
> Sent: Saturday, 29 March 2008 6:05 PM
> To: Plone Social Networking
> Subject: Re: Pirillo Starts Large Scale Community CMS Project
>
>
Kamon Ayeva
>
> Dylan,
>
> OK great. I only mentioned it because the Paris Sprint is titled:
> "Plone 3 Paris Sprint". So I wanted to make sure that if someone were
> to participate it would not only be for plone 3. Having said that,
>
Main focus is Plone, but I think there is a slot for complementary or
othogonal subjects. For example, there will be people working on
adding grok component registration techniques to Plone.
Cheers,
Kamon
Patrick
On Mar 31, 1:17 pm, "Kamon Ayeva" <kamon.ay...@gmail.com> wrote:
to share" as Dylan called it I think ? Would there be others who would
join (virtually) ? I am still thinking about the right use case(s)..
Kamon Ayeva
+1 for that first use case.
I would be on-site and could coordinate if needed.
-- Kamon
Christian Scholz / Tao Takashi (SL)
As for the Paris sprint I unfortunately cannot attend as my mother selected this weekend for her birthday party.
-- Christian
Dylan Jay
It seems everyone is keep on modeling people, contacts but Plone already has a model of a person, and that’s a plone Member. Yes, it’s a bit simple, but products like ReMember work within that API to add more functionality in terms of better profiles.
My question is, what is we want achieve by some new concept of Person etc separate from Member? If’s a real need, then lets see the usecase.
Otherwise I’d like to try building the whole thing without mucking around with plones existing concept of a member.
Why?
- Means maximum compatibility with other products like PloneBoard etc
- Reduces complexity.
- Means future efforts to improve profile management etc like ReMemeber or plone core stuff don’t collide with our development. I don’t want to great upgrade nitemares like I’ve had with CMFMember.
- Means each of our plonesocial components can work independently without each other, and without having to assume our own Member implementation.
Or am I way off base here?
From: plone-socia...@googlegroups.com [mailto:plone-socia...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christian Scholz / Tao Takashi
(SL)
Sent: Tuesday, 1 April 2008 4:29
AM
To: plone-socia...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Pirillo Starts Large
Scale Community CMS Project
As said, for me personally it would be more beneficial to work on the underlying data structures and model person, contacts etc. so I can use this to get the standards and formats for Data Portability up and running. But as the structure needed might need some input from use cases it makes sense to collect (more detailed) use cases first anyway.
Christian Scholz / Tao Takashi (SL)
It seems everyone is keep on modeling people, contacts but Plone already has a model of a person, and that's a plone Member. Yes, it's a bit simple, but products like ReMember work within that API to add more functionality in terms of better profiles.
My question is, what is we want achieve by some new concept of Person etc separate from Member? If's a real need, then lets see the usecase.
Otherwise I'd like to try building the whole thing without mucking around with plones existing concept of a member.
Why?
- Means maximum compatibility with other products like PloneBoard etc
- Reduces complexity.
- Means future efforts to improve profile management etc like ReMemeber or plone core stuff don't collide with our development. I don't want to great upgrade nitemares like I've had with CMFMember.
- Means each of our plonesocial components can work independently without each other, and without having to assume our own Member implementation.
Or am I way off base here?
I haven't looked at remember for some time now but will do so soon. What I think we might need is at least some interfaces like a IBaseProfile etc. which maybe needs to be used for certain use cases. That way we might not depend on remember etc. but we can hide this behind this interface. The adapter for this might be quite simple then.
I wasn't thinking about doing a member implementation ourselves but mostly hiding the actual implementation behind an interface which might come from plonesocial. On top of this we then can add relationships by using e.g. plone.app.relations.
It would be nice though we remember would have a 1.0 release and not just a beta. We might contact Rob and ask what's holding it back or we maybe can make this happen on the way.
-- Christian