[Evangelism] Looking for talking points comparing Plone vs. Wordpress
9 views
Skip to first unread message
Ed Manlove
Oct 25, 2012, 9:25:08 AM10/25/12
to evang...@lists.plone.org, plone-developers@lists. sourceforge. net developers
I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days - proudly wearing
my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own project
or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never really
looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops, have
any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
Ed
[1] http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
_______________________________________________
Evangelism mailing list
Evang...@lists.plone.org
https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own project
or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never really
looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops, have
any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
Ed
[1] http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
_______________________________________________
Evangelism mailing list
Evang...@lists.plone.org
https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
ctxlken
Oct 25, 2012, 10:07:18 AM10/25/12
to evang...@lists.plone.org
Hi Ed,
I attended a WordCamp in Chicago just a couple months ago. I have lots
of notes regarding common plugins used, load-testing, caching tools
commonly used, etc., but in terms of the main Plone v WordPress
differences, I noticed these:
WP conferences have a lot more focus on the end user, on
marketing/commercial sites, and on SEO topics than Plone events.
WP developers/hosters spend a lot of time fighting security
vulnerabilities and their server IP being blacklisted (since it's
typical for a WP site to be on the same server as 100 other WP sites) -
a LOT! And it scares the hell out of the marketing/management people at
these events to hear so much conversation about 'How do you guys fight
this?' from one dev to the other.
As with many tools, some of the 'cool factor' features of WP need to be
disabled, if you want to have a secure site, evidently, such as the
'Plugin Editor', in particular.
WP still has limited workflow capabilities and there is no built-in
global dashboard of security settings, where you click on/off checkboxes
to give fine-grained permissions. And most add-ons don't register
specific permissions to be managed from some general security settings
dashboard, though I did hear of some plugin that purports to handle
this, but again, if the other plugins don't even think that you'll be
managing permissions so much, they tend to not define said permissions
to do fine-grained things - they're usually very general permissions, as
in 'Admin' who gets to do everything, 'Viewer', and 'Editor' - some user
in between who can maybe edit a post, but not remove them, etc.
I did see a talk on using a script to set fine-grained permissions,
since there is no good UI for doing so, but again, it's still dependent
on the plugins defining fine-grained permissions, so that you can set
permissions at a more granular level, and many plugins don't do that.
Many of the top, most useful WP plugins are commercial. Many people use
something called 'Jetpack'. But I got the impression that to use some
of its better features, you needed to have your WP site hosted on one of
their preferred hosting vendors. Don't take my word for that, though.
Many WP plugins provide really neat features, but have really poor
performing queries that can drag your site down (e.g., 'Smart Tags' that
makes a matrix of keywords-to-tags or something and performs some
horrible multi-table-join queries in doing so.) Users tend to just keep
adding more and more plugins to try things out and never remove them,
slowing down their site (with the mere existence of those plugins in
place.) This is true with Plone too, but not to the same extent, since
with WP, installing a new plugin is a simple point-and-click - no
restart of any services, usually.
Hopefully, some of this helps. Thanks for "representin'" Plone! It's
good for us to go to these types of events to see how we stack up.
Thanks,
Ken
On 10/25/12 8:26 AM, Ed Manlove-2 [via Plone] wrote:
> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days - proudly wearing
> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
> talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own project
> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never really
> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops, have
> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
> Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
>
> Ed
>
> [1] http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Evangelism mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560624&i=0>
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
> discussion below:
> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624.html
>
> To start a new topic under Evangelism, email
> ml-node+s293...@n2.nabble.com
> To unsubscribe from Evangelism, click here
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&node=293364&code=a2VuLndhc2V0aXNAY29udGV4dHVhbGNvcnAuY29tfDI5MzM2NHw5MTE0MjkxNDI=>.
> NAML
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
>
--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560633.html
Sent from the Evangelism mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I attended a WordCamp in Chicago just a couple months ago. I have lots
of notes regarding common plugins used, load-testing, caching tools
commonly used, etc., but in terms of the main Plone v WordPress
differences, I noticed these:
WP conferences have a lot more focus on the end user, on
marketing/commercial sites, and on SEO topics than Plone events.
WP developers/hosters spend a lot of time fighting security
vulnerabilities and their server IP being blacklisted (since it's
typical for a WP site to be on the same server as 100 other WP sites) -
a LOT! And it scares the hell out of the marketing/management people at
these events to hear so much conversation about 'How do you guys fight
this?' from one dev to the other.
As with many tools, some of the 'cool factor' features of WP need to be
disabled, if you want to have a secure site, evidently, such as the
'Plugin Editor', in particular.
WP still has limited workflow capabilities and there is no built-in
global dashboard of security settings, where you click on/off checkboxes
to give fine-grained permissions. And most add-ons don't register
specific permissions to be managed from some general security settings
dashboard, though I did hear of some plugin that purports to handle
this, but again, if the other plugins don't even think that you'll be
managing permissions so much, they tend to not define said permissions
to do fine-grained things - they're usually very general permissions, as
in 'Admin' who gets to do everything, 'Viewer', and 'Editor' - some user
in between who can maybe edit a post, but not remove them, etc.
I did see a talk on using a script to set fine-grained permissions,
since there is no good UI for doing so, but again, it's still dependent
on the plugins defining fine-grained permissions, so that you can set
permissions at a more granular level, and many plugins don't do that.
Many of the top, most useful WP plugins are commercial. Many people use
something called 'Jetpack'. But I got the impression that to use some
of its better features, you needed to have your WP site hosted on one of
their preferred hosting vendors. Don't take my word for that, though.
Many WP plugins provide really neat features, but have really poor
performing queries that can drag your site down (e.g., 'Smart Tags' that
makes a matrix of keywords-to-tags or something and performs some
horrible multi-table-join queries in doing so.) Users tend to just keep
adding more and more plugins to try things out and never remove them,
slowing down their site (with the mere existence of those plugins in
place.) This is true with Plone too, but not to the same extent, since
with WP, installing a new plugin is a simple point-and-click - no
restart of any services, usually.
Hopefully, some of this helps. Thanks for "representin'" Plone! It's
good for us to go to these types of events to see how we stack up.
Thanks,
Ken
On 10/25/12 8:26 AM, Ed Manlove-2 [via Plone] wrote:
> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days - proudly wearing
> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
> talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own project
> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never really
> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops, have
> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
> Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
>
> Ed
>
> [1] http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Evangelism mailing list
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
> discussion below:
> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624.html
>
> To start a new topic under Evangelism, email
> ml-node+s293...@n2.nabble.com
> To unsubscribe from Evangelism, click here
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&node=293364&code=a2VuLndhc2V0aXNAY29udGV4dHVhbGNvcnAuY29tfDI5MzM2NHw5MTE0MjkxNDI=>.
> NAML
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
>
--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560633.html
Sent from the Evangelism mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Carol Ganz
Oct 25, 2012, 10:28:04 AM10/25/12
to plone-ev...@lists.plone.org
Ken,
Thanks for sharing, the info is definitely helpful.
Thanks,
Carol
Thanks for sharing, the info is definitely helpful.
Thanks,
Carol
T. Kim Nguyen
Oct 25, 2012, 10:49:59 AM10/25/12
to Carol Ganz, plone-ev...@lists.plone.org
Great info!
Re: end users, one of the things we are planning to do at Plone Symposium Midwest is have a track (a set of talks, training, a demo area) for people who are very new to Plone -- even people who are just still considering whether to use Plone. It would be good to have at least a portion of a talk on the strengths of Plone relative to other CMS's one might be considering.
So... Ken ... you are hereby volunteered. :)
Kim
--
Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
For UW Oshkosh Plone help and site requests, please email plone...@lists.uwosh.edu or visit http://uwosh.edu/ploneprojects/help
Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
For UW Oshkosh Plone help and site requests, please email plone...@lists.uwosh.edu or visit http://uwosh.edu/ploneprojects/help
Twitter: @tkimnguyen
Giacomo Spettoli
Oct 25, 2012, 10:58:26 AM10/25/12
to Ed Manlove, evang...@lists.plone.org
Hi Ed,
this spring during the sorrento sprint there has been a similar
comparison. Here's a googledoc where all the points have been highlighted:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjjG4VVlsN-IdG5rRmNnbWJmTjdzZDFaNklKOWoyd0E#gid=0
cheers,
Giacomo
--
Giacomo Spettoli
Twitter: http://twitter.com/giacomospettoli
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/giacomospettoli
this spring during the sorrento sprint there has been a similar
comparison. Here's a googledoc where all the points have been highlighted:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjjG4VVlsN-IdG5rRmNnbWJmTjdzZDFaNklKOWoyd0E#gid=0
cheers,
Giacomo
Giacomo Spettoli
Twitter: http://twitter.com/giacomospettoli
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/giacomospettoli
ctxlken
Oct 25, 2012, 11:40:57 AM10/25/12
to evang...@lists.plone.org
I'd already volunteered to help with the symposium. In whatever way you
need. Was just waiting to be asked. Nathan VG said the same, so start
reaching out, buddy!
To my surprise, at the Plone Conf in Arnhem, I had a lot of response to
the "Intranet Shoot-out: Plone vs. Sharepoint" talk I gave. I was
surprised, because a) Who wants to hear about a commercial tool, let
alone an M$ tool, let alone an Intranet tool, right? Not very sexy.
and b) It's not a case study, it doesn't show-off cool Plone features or
any code, etc. Still not sexy. So, it was great to see so many
Plonistas interested in getting the industry knowledge of how Plone
stacks up to other tools.
I definitely think you could have an afternoon of just talks that
compare/contrast Plone to Drupal, Wordpress, Sharepoint. If the PSM is
going to have a Higher Ed bent to it as the PSE did, perhaps there are
other tools (Moodle?) that are used in Higher Ed that your staff might
have enough familiarity with to provide additional talks, but I have to
imagine the 3 I list would be of interest and a good starting point.
Oh, and on Wordpress - one more thing - WP does still have fewer
barriers to entry. Abundant managed hosting options, cheaper options
(although some entry hosting level options are on par between WP and
Plone, usually with WP for $25-30/mo you get 1 site, X page visits or
bandwidth limit, etc. With Plone, you usually get X RAM X DB Disk
storage, etc. ) If you were to host multiple/many sites, then a Plone
hosting option of just getting a cloud server for X/month and managing
multiple sites on your site instance and maybe using multiple mount
points for the DB becomes attractive, but way more complex to setup on
your own than typical click-and-go Wordpress setups, I think. We're
getting there, but not there yet on the low-end hosting range /
1-small-site end of the spectrum. And maybe that's fine, but it's
important to know.
-Ken
On 10/25/12 9:50 AM, T. Kim Nguyen [via Plone] wrote:
> Great info!
>
> Re: end users, one of the things we are planning to do at Plone
> Symposium Midwest is have a track (a set of talks, training, a demo
> area) for people who are very new to Plone -- even people who are just
> still considering whether to use Plone. It would be good to have at
> least a portion of a talk on the strengths of Plone relative to other
> CMS's one might be considering.
>
> So... Ken ... you are hereby volunteered. :)
>
> Kim
>
> >> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=1>
> email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=4> or visit
> Evangelism mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=5>
President & CMS Solution Architect
Contextual Corp.
office: 847-356-3027
ken.w...@contextualcorp.com
--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560641.html
need. Was just waiting to be asked. Nathan VG said the same, so start
reaching out, buddy!
To my surprise, at the Plone Conf in Arnhem, I had a lot of response to
the "Intranet Shoot-out: Plone vs. Sharepoint" talk I gave. I was
surprised, because a) Who wants to hear about a commercial tool, let
alone an M$ tool, let alone an Intranet tool, right? Not very sexy.
and b) It's not a case study, it doesn't show-off cool Plone features or
any code, etc. Still not sexy. So, it was great to see so many
Plonistas interested in getting the industry knowledge of how Plone
stacks up to other tools.
I definitely think you could have an afternoon of just talks that
compare/contrast Plone to Drupal, Wordpress, Sharepoint. If the PSM is
going to have a Higher Ed bent to it as the PSE did, perhaps there are
other tools (Moodle?) that are used in Higher Ed that your staff might
have enough familiarity with to provide additional talks, but I have to
imagine the 3 I list would be of interest and a good starting point.
Oh, and on Wordpress - one more thing - WP does still have fewer
barriers to entry. Abundant managed hosting options, cheaper options
(although some entry hosting level options are on par between WP and
Plone, usually with WP for $25-30/mo you get 1 site, X page visits or
bandwidth limit, etc. With Plone, you usually get X RAM X DB Disk
storage, etc. ) If you were to host multiple/many sites, then a Plone
hosting option of just getting a cloud server for X/month and managing
multiple sites on your site instance and maybe using multiple mount
points for the DB becomes attractive, but way more complex to setup on
your own than typical click-and-go Wordpress setups, I think. We're
getting there, but not there yet on the low-end hosting range /
1-small-site end of the spectrum. And maybe that's fine, but it's
important to know.
-Ken
On 10/25/12 9:50 AM, T. Kim Nguyen [via Plone] wrote:
> Great info!
>
> Re: end users, one of the things we are planning to do at Plone
> Symposium Midwest is have a track (a set of talks, training, a demo
> area) for people who are very new to Plone -- even people who are just
> still considering whether to use Plone. It would be good to have at
> least a portion of a talk on the strengths of Plone relative to other
> CMS's one might be considering.
>
> So... Ken ... you are hereby volunteered. :)
>
> Kim
>
> >> To unsubscribe from Evangelism, click here
> >> <>> NAML
> >>
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560633.html
> > Sent from the Evangelism mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Evangelism mailing list
> > [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=2>
> >>
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560633.html
> > Sent from the Evangelism mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Evangelism mailing list
> > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Evangelism mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=3>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Evangelism mailing list
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
>
>
>
>
> --
> Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
>
> For UW Oshkosh Plone help and site requests, please email [hidden
>
>
>
>
> --
> Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
>
> email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=4> or visit
> http://uwosh.edu/ploneprojects/help
>
> UW Oshkosh Intranet Project
> http://plonedev.uwosh.edu/intranettaskforce
> http://uwosh.edu/plone
>
> Co-Chair, PloneEdu initiative for K-12 & higher education
> http://ploneedu.org
>
> Twitter: @tkimnguyen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> UW Oshkosh Intranet Project
> http://plonedev.uwosh.edu/intranettaskforce
> http://uwosh.edu/plone
>
> Co-Chair, PloneEdu initiative for K-12 & higher education
> http://ploneedu.org
>
> Twitter: @tkimnguyen
>
>
>
> Evangelism mailing list
> [hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=5>
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
> discussion below:
> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560635.html
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the
> discussion below:
>
> To start a new topic under Evangelism, email
> ml-node+s293...@n2.nabble.com
> To unsubscribe from Evangelism, click here
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&node=293364&code=a2VuLndhc2V0aXNAY29udGV4dHVhbGNvcnAuY29tfDI5MzM2NHw5MTE0MjkxNDI=>.
> NAML
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
>
--
Ken Wasetis
> To start a new topic under Evangelism, email
> ml-node+s293...@n2.nabble.com
> To unsubscribe from Evangelism, click here
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&node=293364&code=a2VuLndhc2V0aXNAY29udGV4dHVhbGNvcnAuY29tfDI5MzM2NHw5MTE0MjkxNDI=>.
> NAML
> <http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
>
--
President & CMS Solution Architect
Contextual Corp.
office: 847-356-3027
ken.w...@contextualcorp.com
--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560641.html
Armin Stroß-Radschinski
Oct 25, 2012, 12:27:17 PM10/25/12
to evang...@lists.plone.org
Hi Ken,
thanks for collecting this and sharing. I enjoyed your Sharepoint talk
as well!
Beneath catching highlight headlines, we need more of this kind of
technical base information after we have Plone newcomers on the hook.
Lets create professional Whitepapers
==================================
How can we proceed to refine this topic into one whitepaper like
content for Plone.com called
"Plone vs. WP – The Full Featured CMS Plone compared against
WordPress" a WhitePaper
(How does this title sound for native speakers?)
If someone is willing to step up to find the tenor of language we need
to put the finger into the wound without too much bashing? A
Whitepaper should cover arguments people need to internally promote
Plone in their organisation or to their customers after discovering
there is a safe alternate CMS!
If you think you can rewrite existing stuff like below for target
groups, please join the plone.com mailing list http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-com
and drop me a line to join the trello board for task sharing!
The same has to be done with the excellent Sharepoint feature
comparison.
Armin
acsr industrialdesign, Landgrafenstraße 32, 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
Telefon +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 94, FAX +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 96
eMail a.stross-r...@acsr.de - http://www.acsr.de
UST. ID Nr: DE154092803 (EU VAT ID)
thanks for collecting this and sharing. I enjoyed your Sharepoint talk
as well!
Beneath catching highlight headlines, we need more of this kind of
technical base information after we have Plone newcomers on the hook.
Lets create professional Whitepapers
==================================
How can we proceed to refine this topic into one whitepaper like
content for Plone.com called
"Plone vs. WP – The Full Featured CMS Plone compared against
WordPress" a WhitePaper
(How does this title sound for native speakers?)
If someone is willing to step up to find the tenor of language we need
to put the finger into the wound without too much bashing? A
Whitepaper should cover arguments people need to internally promote
Plone in their organisation or to their customers after discovering
there is a safe alternate CMS!
If you think you can rewrite existing stuff like below for target
groups, please join the plone.com mailing list http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-com
and drop me a line to join the trello board for task sharing!
The same has to be done with the excellent Sharepoint feature
comparison.
Armin
>>> View this message in context:
>> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560633.html
>>
>> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7560633.html
>>
>> --
>> Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
>>
>> For UW Oshkosh Plone help and site requests, please email [hidden
>> email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=4> or visit
>> http://uwosh.edu/ploneprojects/help
>>
>> UW Oshkosh Intranet Project
>> http://plonedev.uwosh.edu/intranettaskforce
>> http://uwosh.edu/plone
>>
>> Co-Chair, PloneEdu initiative for K-12 & higher education
>> http://ploneedu.org
>>
>> Twitter: @tkimnguyen
>
>> Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
>>
>> For UW Oshkosh Plone help and site requests, please email [hidden
>> email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7560635&i=4> or visit
>> http://uwosh.edu/ploneprojects/help
>>
>> UW Oshkosh Intranet Project
>> http://plonedev.uwosh.edu/intranettaskforce
>> http://uwosh.edu/plone
>>
>> Co-Chair, PloneEdu initiative for K-12 & higher education
>> http://ploneedu.org
>>
>> Twitter: @tkimnguyen
>
> --
> Ken Wasetis
>
> President & CMS Solution Architect
> Contextual Corp.
> office: 847-356-3027
> ken.w...@contextualcorp.com
>
--
Armin Carl Stroß-Radschinski, Dipl. Designer
> Ken Wasetis
>
> President & CMS Solution Architect
> Contextual Corp.
> office: 847-356-3027
> ken.w...@contextualcorp.com
>
--
acsr industrialdesign, Landgrafenstraße 32, 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
Telefon +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 94, FAX +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 96
eMail a.stross-r...@acsr.de - http://www.acsr.de
UST. ID Nr: DE154092803 (EU VAT ID)
Ken Wasetis - Contextual Corp.
Oct 25, 2012, 12:35:19 PM10/25/12
to Armin Stroß-Radschinski, evang...@lists.plone.org
Armin,
I'm on that plone-com list already, but what would help would be to know
where the main 'jumping off point' is. Is there a main landing
page/portal that directs people to:
- Google Docs
- Mailing List
- Plone.com staging site (where we can see current state of the theme,
content, etc.)
Also, where is the content being done? We can't just have a complete
wiki environment where everyone just types over each other's content, I
think, but we also don't want to hold-up progress.
I've been on the mailing list, but to be honest, got lost long ago as to
where to go to contribute, as things just went in 5 directions - at
least to me. As I tried to track the list updates during a period I was
too busy to actually do the work, there were so many updates coming per
day that I couldn't really keep up.
Please update those like me who might want to help, but aren't sure
where to start.
For instance, for the CMSX vs Plone and CMSY vs. Plone type of
comparisons, I think a shared Google Doc would be a good place to
start. Then, we can add/polish up some copy around those points to plug
into presentations, whitepapers, etc.
Thanks,
Ken
I'm on that plone-com list already, but what would help would be to know
where the main 'jumping off point' is. Is there a main landing
page/portal that directs people to:
- Google Docs
- Mailing List
- Plone.com staging site (where we can see current state of the theme,
content, etc.)
Also, where is the content being done? We can't just have a complete
wiki environment where everyone just types over each other's content, I
think, but we also don't want to hold-up progress.
I've been on the mailing list, but to be honest, got lost long ago as to
where to go to contribute, as things just went in 5 directions - at
least to me. As I tried to track the list updates during a period I was
too busy to actually do the work, there were so many updates coming per
day that I couldn't really keep up.
Please update those like me who might want to help, but aren't sure
where to start.
For instance, for the CMSX vs Plone and CMSY vs. Plone type of
comparisons, I think a shared Google Doc would be a good place to
start. Then, we can add/polish up some copy around those points to plug
into presentations, whitepapers, etc.
Thanks,
Ken
T. Kim Nguyen
Oct 25, 2012, 12:46:14 PM10/25/12
to Alex Clark, plone-developers@lists.sourceforge.net developers, Evang...@lists.plone.org
Thanks for the comments, Alex. We don't beat anybody up over using Plone instead of anything else. The approach we've taken in our Plone promotion within UW System is to present the strengths of Plone and what we've done; those on their own speak volumes. Then we make sure everyone knows we are open to helping them. A soft sell, really. You're absolutely right: having someone on the ground or easily available helps gain adoption.
--
Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
For UW Oshkosh Plone help and site requests, please email plone...@lists.uwosh.edu or visit http://uwosh.edu/ploneprojects/help
Kim
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:43 AM, T. Kim Nguyen <ngu...@uwosh.edu> wrote:
Yup, Ed had originally crossposted to both lists (evang...@lists.plone.org does exist). -- Kim
On 2012-10-25 13:25:08 +0000, Ed Manlove said:
> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days - proudly wearing
> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
> talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own project
> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never really
> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops, have
> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
> Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
(FWIW: I think there is an evangalism list… I could be wrong.)
I'm not sure where I fit in the spectrum, but I rarely try to convince
people to use Plone over Wordpress. I mention the strengths and
weaknesses of each (e.g. Wordpress has a really impressive "finished
product" feel to it, Plone has great security, etc) but then: I
recommend they experiment with both to decide which feels best for them.
Some organizations have a lot invested in PHP and don't want to use a
foreign technology, and vice versa.
Sometimes there is a "show-stopping feature" that prevents or
encourages the use of one over the other.
Lastly, you'd be surprised how much the "human element" affects
people's decisions. If there is a person or group of people using and
recommending the software to an organization, that recommendation can
go a long way toward helping them decide (e.g. if someone wants to work
with me I'm likely not doing Wordpress for them :-)).
Alex
>
> Ed
>
> [1] http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
--
Alex Clark · https://www.gittip.com/aclark4life/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
Plone-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Plone Symposium Midwest will be hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
For UW Oshkosh Plone help and site requests, please email plone...@lists.uwosh.edu or visit http://uwosh.edu/ploneprojects/help
Armin Stroß-Radschinski
Oct 25, 2012, 2:32:31 PM10/25/12
to evang...@lists.plone.org
Hi Kim, would you like to sign up for the Plone.com Trello board to
catch some tasks in the next days?
I send you an invitation. If you are confused, wait until I have
wrapped up the stuff!
Armin
catch some tasks in the next days?
I send you an invitation. If you are confused, wait until I have
wrapped up the stuff!
Armin
Armin Carl Stroß-Radschinski, Dipl. Designer
acsr industrialdesign, Landgrafenstraße 32, 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
Telefon +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 94, FAX +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 96
eMail a.stross-r...@acsr.de - http://www.acsr.de
UST. ID Nr: DE154092803 (EU VAT ID)
acsr industrialdesign, Landgrafenstraße 32, 53842 Troisdorf, Germany
Telefon +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 94, FAX +49 (0) 22 41 / 94 69 96
eMail a.stross-r...@acsr.de - http://www.acsr.de
UST. ID Nr: DE154092803 (EU VAT ID)
Matt Hamilton
Oct 26, 2012, 4:58:01 AM10/26/12
to Ed Manlove, plone-developers@lists. sourceforge. net developers, evang...@lists.plone.org
Ed,
Another area that I often mention when comparing Plone with other CMSes is deployment and configuration management. ie. buildout. No other system I know of has something quite like it. If you are talking to Wordpress people then see how they deal with having a development, staging, and production environments and how they promote changes in both content and functionality/theme/config from one to another. Whilst the majority of Wordpress people won't care about issues like that for their little blog, it is a very big issue to bring up for those that decide they want to try and use Wordpress as a full blown CMS.
-Matt
--
Matt Hamilton, Technical Director
Netsight Internet Solutions Limited
http://www.netsight.co.uk/matth
Tel: 0117 90 90 90 1 Ext. 15
Registered in England No. 3892180
Registered office: 40 Berkeley Square, Clifton, Bristol, BS8 1HU
Another area that I often mention when comparing Plone with other CMSes is deployment and configuration management. ie. buildout. No other system I know of has something quite like it. If you are talking to Wordpress people then see how they deal with having a development, staging, and production environments and how they promote changes in both content and functionality/theme/config from one to another. Whilst the majority of Wordpress people won't care about issues like that for their little blog, it is a very big issue to bring up for those that decide they want to try and use Wordpress as a full blown CMS.
-Matt
Matt Hamilton, Technical Director
Netsight Internet Solutions Limited
http://www.netsight.co.uk/matth
Tel: 0117 90 90 90 1 Ext. 15
Registered in England No. 3892180
Registered office: 40 Berkeley Square, Clifton, Bristol, BS8 1HU
Armin Stroß-Radschinski
Oct 26, 2012, 6:01:04 AM10/26/12
to evang...@lists.plone.org, Lennart Regebro, plone-developers@lists. sourceforge. net developers
Lennart you are right,
but Plone giving WordPress a challenge as a simple blog or simple
workflow website tool is like the tiger wanting to eat whiskas all days.
Our target is more catching all the upcoming tigers and cure them from
trying to start with cat food or cheese.
There is line between these markets WP cannot cross until now. For a
lot of agencies praising WP as easy and fast / cheap solution, there
is a point the customer grows his business. Lets catch them there!
Maybe before they are addicted to cat food. This is our strenght.
Security, deployment, scaleability, access control, workflows etc.
Armin
Am 26.10.2012 um 11:01 schrieb Lennart Regebro:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Ed Manlove <devP...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days - proudly
>> wearing
>> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
>> talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own
>> project
>> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never
>> really
>> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
>> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops,
>> have
>> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
>> Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
>
> My opinion on the matter:
>
> They are just different. Wordpress is a blog/WebCMS. If you are OK
> with using finished templates, making a website with Wordpress is fast
> and relatively painless. It works fine for a small "poster-type"
> website where you have products and a blog for news/pressreleases. And
> if you have a custom design there are tons of HTML hackers that can
> skin it. So wordpress is good, if what wordpress does is what you
> want.
>
> Plone is an "enterprise" CMS, where you can have custom content types,
> custom workflow and you can make loads of things happen automatically.
> You can make it do anything you want, as long as what you want is a
> content management system. I have customers who use it essentially as
> a workflowed document management system, where PDF's with actual
> scanned papers are moved throughout stages and approvals, all done
> with TTW configuration.
>
> Plone therefore is what you use if Wordpress *doesn't* do exactly what
> you want. The benefit here with Plone is that you can use it for the
> type of sites you use Wordpress for as well, which means by starting
> with Plone you don't paint yourself into a corner. However, there are
> few finished skins to choose from, so you are likely to want your own
> custom design, and implementing it takes more work, and you generally
> can't host it at the really cheap PHP-type hosts that Wordpress can be
> on. So the cost is higher.
>
> //Lennart
but Plone giving WordPress a challenge as a simple blog or simple
workflow website tool is like the tiger wanting to eat whiskas all days.
Our target is more catching all the upcoming tigers and cure them from
trying to start with cat food or cheese.
There is line between these markets WP cannot cross until now. For a
lot of agencies praising WP as easy and fast / cheap solution, there
is a point the customer grows his business. Lets catch them there!
Maybe before they are addicted to cat food. This is our strenght.
Security, deployment, scaleability, access control, workflows etc.
Armin
Am 26.10.2012 um 11:01 schrieb Lennart Regebro:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Ed Manlove <devP...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days - proudly
>> wearing
>> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
>> talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own
>> project
>> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never
>> really
>> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
>> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops,
>> have
>> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
>> Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
>
>
> They are just different. Wordpress is a blog/WebCMS. If you are OK
> with using finished templates, making a website with Wordpress is fast
> and relatively painless. It works fine for a small "poster-type"
> website where you have products and a blog for news/pressreleases. And
> if you have a custom design there are tons of HTML hackers that can
> skin it. So wordpress is good, if what wordpress does is what you
> want.
>
> Plone is an "enterprise" CMS, where you can have custom content types,
> custom workflow and you can make loads of things happen automatically.
> You can make it do anything you want, as long as what you want is a
> content management system. I have customers who use it essentially as
> a workflowed document management system, where PDF's with actual
> scanned papers are moved throughout stages and approvals, all done
> with TTW configuration.
>
> Plone therefore is what you use if Wordpress *doesn't* do exactly what
> you want. The benefit here with Plone is that you can use it for the
> type of sites you use Wordpress for as well, which means by starting
> with Plone you don't paint yourself into a corner. However, there are
> few finished skins to choose from, so you are likely to want your own
> custom design, and implementing it takes more work, and you generally
> can't host it at the really cheap PHP-type hosts that Wordpress can be
> on. So the cost is higher.
>
> //Lennart
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> Plone-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> Plone-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Dylan Jay
Oct 26, 2012, 8:09:38 AM10/26/12
to Tom Cameron, plone-developers@lists. sourceforge. net developers, evang...@lists.plone.org
Have you looked at post v3 wp? It has changed a lot with custom content types for example.
Dylan Jay
Dylan Jay
Technical solution manager
PretaWeb 99552830
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Lennart Regebro <reg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Ed Manlove <devP...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days - proudly wearing
> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
> talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own project
> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never really
> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops, have
> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
> Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
Many say that Plone is an enterprise CMS and Wordpress is not. Personally I question if Wordpress even qualifies for the name "Content Management System".To really be a CMS a system would expect a system to be capable of handling content in all the possible forms it may take and Wordpress is certainly not capable of that. And to "manage" content you would expect a system to be able to provide fine control over access, handle a wide range of possible workflows, version control, etc - again Wordpress is not capable of this. So frankly I don't think Wordpress qualifies to be called a CMS.Wordpress is a blog system with a large number of add-on features and skins - it is great for that purpose and if your requirements match its features well then its a quick, simple, cheap to host solution. But if you really want "Content Management" then it is unlikely to come anywhere near a complete solution.Tom
Dylan Jay
Oct 26, 2012, 8:14:19 AM10/26/12
to Armin Stroß-Radschinski, Lennart Regebro, plone-developers@lists. sourceforge. net developers, evang...@lists.plone.org
Our challenge is to make plone as simple as wp. Hosted plone with
diazo is powerful and more customizable. Our challenge is to make it
easier than wp for a simple blog or site. Why let people choose?
Dylan Jay
Technical solution manager
PretaWeb 99552830
diazo is powerful and more customizable. Our challenge is to make it
easier than wp for a simple blog or site. Why let people choose?
Dylan Jay
Technical solution manager
PretaWeb 99552830
Matt Hamilton
Oct 26, 2012, 8:24:57 AM10/26/12
to Dylan Jay, Tom Cameron, evang...@lists.plone.org
And regardless of what *we think* WP is, it *is* being seen and sold as a CMS these days.
-Matt
_______________________________________________
Armin Stroß-Radschinski
Oct 26, 2012, 10:10:58 AM10/26/12
to Lennart Regebro, plone-developers@lists. sourceforge. net developers, evang...@lists.plone.org
Am 26.10.2012 um 13:00 schrieb Lennart Regebro:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Armin Stroß-Radschinski
> <deve...@acsr.de> wrote:
>> Lennart you are right,
>> but Plone giving WordPress a challenge as a simple blog or simple
>> workflow
>> website tool is like the tiger wanting to eat whiskas all days.
>>
>> Our target is more catching all the upcoming tigers and cure them
>> from
>> trying to start with cat food or cheese.
>
> Well, what our target is, is something completely different. The
> question is not what customers Plone wants, but what system the
> customer wants. :-)
>
> //Lennart
Youre wrong from my point of view...
I am always selling what the customer needs and not what he wants!
Customers do not know what they need!
So I have to change my communication strategy!
The main difference of the result after using this strategy is that
the customer is happy AFTER the job instead of before the job.
So we only should attract people that need Plone ;-)
Armin
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster
horses.”
― Henry Ford
Armin Stroß-Radschinski
Oct 26, 2012, 10:25:02 AM10/26/12
to Lennart Regebro, plone-developers@lists. sourceforge. net developers, evang...@lists.plone.org
Am 26.10.2012 um 16:10 schrieb Armin Stroß-Radschinski:
>
> Am 26.10.2012 um 13:00 schrieb Lennart Regebro:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Armin Stroß-Radschinski
>> <deve...@acsr.de> wrote:
>>> Lennart you are right,
>>> but Plone giving WordPress a challenge as a simple blog or simple
>>> workflow
>>> website tool is like the tiger wanting to eat whiskas all days.
>>>
>>> Our target is more catching all the upcoming tigers and cure them
>>> from
>>> trying to start with cat food or cheese.
>>
>> Well, what our target is, is something completely different. The
>> question is not what customers Plone wants, but what system the
>> customer wants. :-)
>>
>> //Lennart
>
> Youre wrong from my point of view...
>
> I am always selling what the customer needs and not what he wants!
> Customers do not know what they need!
Clarification: As a designer, I sell innovation! Stuff that mostly
nobody delivered before.
But if a 1000 flys cannot be wrong eating more sh... is not an option.
WordPress had a lot of luck when the movabletype vendor/developer did
the well known mistake to change their licence policy and initiated a
switch of the whole community to WordPress.
The chance to jump on a train like that is rare but should be catched
if e.g. Sharepoint fails. But hopefully we are in the sharks reef
instead of the gold fish glass. Be careful and have fun!
Armin
> So I have to change my communication strategy!
>
> The main difference of the result after using this strategy is that
> the customer is happy AFTER the job instead of before the job.
>
> So we only should attract people that need Plone ;-)
>
> Armin
>
> “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster
> horses.”
> ― Henry Ford
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> Plone-de...@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
_______________________________________________
Ed Manlove
Nov 24, 2012, 7:17:20 PM11/24/12
to evang...@lists.plone.org, gt...@psu.edu
> I'm attending a local WordCamp [1] in a couple of days - proudly wearing
> my Plone T-Shirt - and wanted to brush up on my Plone vs. WordPress
> talking points. All of my Plone work has either been on my own project
> or within Plone core (RTL, UI testing, i18n, etc) so I've never really
> looked outwards too closely. I going to do some searching around but
> wanted to see if anyone, in particular our Plone development shops, have
> any notes when they talk/work with customers on showing the value of
> Plone as compared to Wordpress. Thanks.
>
> Ed
>
> [1]http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
>
attending as regular participate interested in some technology topics
and in, more so, the local community and their use of WordPress. I
wasn't giving a talk this time around. Here are some of the highlights
of the day...
The first talk I attended, a talk about use of WordPress within
academia, was given by a trio of people from The Harrington School of
Communication and Media at URI. What struck me most was Miss Lukovics
talk on her use of WordPress for her student portfolio. Their talk
reminded me of Jim Groom's keynote at PSUEast2012 [2]. I passed on the
url for PSUEast and Jim's talk to the director at the Harrington School.
The second talk I attended was given by Jess Jurick entitled "Writing
Tools for WordPress". Among the themes that stood out was the need for
publishing workflows and writer management. There was a fair amount talk
about drafts. Most of this functionality it seemed came from
third-party add-ons instead of Plone's built-in workflow, permissions,
scheduled publishing. Concerning wysiwyg editiors the NY Times' ICE
editor was mentioned.
The one sole tech talk I attended, "Debugging, Testing, Security,
Performance", was given by John James Jacoby. John works for
Automattic, the company behind WordPress.com, and is also the lead
BuddyPress (WordPress-powered social networks?) and bbPress (bulletin
board, forum add-on for WP?) developer. John flew through his slides and
hit various topics. Since I am neither a WordPress developer nor did I
need intimate details I had few take-aways from his talk. Mostly is that
WordPress security is difficult to implement and difficult to keep
strong and that debugging in php is hard (but apparently getting better).
Brad Parson gave an interesting talk on responsive design. As far as I
could tell Brad is more developer then designer but much of his advice
was in sync with what Jen Robbins had said during an earlier talk at a
different web designer meetup. One topic he brought up, lack of
web-based responsive design advertisements, is being addressed by a
local startup, Pennant - http://pennant.co/, that I was introduced to at
another startup incubator launch night. (Apparently I'm seeing/attending
a lot of responsive design at local tech meetings...)
I attend a few more talks covering topics of entrepreneurship and
WordPress themes. I talked with a few people but no one who was doing an
evaluation of CMSes. It seemed as if most people were using WordPress
for basic sites with blogs and a few other pages with information (About
pages, basic portfolios, etc) and a fair amount of novice users. This
was what I was expecting and I do want to thank everyone who offered
suggestions for Plone vs. X talking points. I plan on continuing
attending local events and talking about Plone. If anyone has any
question on my interactions or thoughts on the WordCamp Providence event
please ask.
Ed
[1] http://2012.providence.wordcamp.org/
[2] http://weblion.psu.edu/news/jim-groom-to-keynote-at-pse12
dtlenergy
Dec 11, 2012, 12:09:09 PM12/11/12
to evang...@lists.plone.org
One thing I would say in favour of Wordpress is that more people know how to
program in PHP and use MySql than know
Python.
--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7561832.html
program in PHP and use MySql than know
Python.
--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7561832.html
Sent from the Evangelism mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Steve McMahon
Dec 11, 2012, 12:28:33 PM12/11/12
to dtlenergy, evang...@lists.plone.org
A point to keep in mind about the "more people know PHP" point.
A few years ago, I was at a symposium for advocacy organizations, and the lead Drupal speaker made just that point (PHP coders are cheap and plentiful!). However, at a Drupal-specific panel later in the day, he said that if you needed customization, you should never hire anyone with less than three years full-time programming with Drupal. He termed PHP experience outside Drupal "worthless" since they wouldn't know the Drupal way, and wouldn't be able to write safe code.
David Bain
Dec 11, 2012, 12:32:49 PM12/11/12
to dtlenergy, evang...@lists.plone.org
I'm fresh from teaching wordpress in a web management course, I think
this was a good experience as it helped me to get some hands on with
the system. The PHP vs Python concern is less of a talking point if
you're dealing with site administrators and designers who only know
CSS and HTML. The issue then becomes how easy it is to customize a
theme using the skillset that you already have, don't underestimate
how confusing it is to see something like this in a header.php file:
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html <?php language_attributes(); ?>>
<head>
<title><?php echo get_bloginfo('name'); ?> <?php wp_title(); ?></title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="<?php echo
get_bloginfo('html_type'); ?>; charset=<?php echo
get_bloginfo('charset'); ?>" />
<meta name="keywords" content="" />
<meta name="description" content="<?php echo
get_bloginfo('description'); ?>" />
<meta name="robots" content="index, follow" />
<!-- Style Sheets -->
<?php
print '<style type="text/css" media="all">';
print '@import "'.get_template_directory_uri().'/css/reset.css";';
print '@import "'.get_template_directory_uri().'/css/screen.php";';
print '</style>';
?>
<!--[if IE 7]>
<link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo
get_template_directory_uri(); ?>/css/ie7.css" type="text/css"
media="screen" />
<![endif]-->
<?php
if ( function_exists( 'get_option_tree') ) {
$phonetext = get_option_tree( 'value_phonetext' );
$phoneicon = get_option_tree( 'value_phoneicon' );
$offertext = get_option_tree( 'value_offertext' );
}
?>
<?php wp_head(); ?>
</head>
<body <?php body_class(); ?>>
For comparison, I would show the code for an html template in Plone
(which is basically just html) and put that next to the code for a
wordpress theme on a single slide.
I'd argue that, while installation and setup is pretty trivial with
wordpress, customization is becoming trickier. I gauge this by how
hard it is to teach to non-programmers.
--
--- The best part about UDP jokes is that nobody cares if you get them.
this was a good experience as it helped me to get some hands on with
the system. The PHP vs Python concern is less of a talking point if
you're dealing with site administrators and designers who only know
CSS and HTML. The issue then becomes how easy it is to customize a
theme using the skillset that you already have, don't underestimate
how confusing it is to see something like this in a header.php file:
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html <?php language_attributes(); ?>>
<head>
<title><?php echo get_bloginfo('name'); ?> <?php wp_title(); ?></title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="<?php echo
get_bloginfo('html_type'); ?>; charset=<?php echo
get_bloginfo('charset'); ?>" />
<meta name="keywords" content="" />
<meta name="description" content="<?php echo
get_bloginfo('description'); ?>" />
<meta name="robots" content="index, follow" />
<!-- Style Sheets -->
<?php
print '<style type="text/css" media="all">';
print '@import "'.get_template_directory_uri().'/css/reset.css";';
print '@import "'.get_template_directory_uri().'/css/screen.php";';
print '</style>';
?>
<!--[if IE 7]>
<link rel="stylesheet" href="<?php echo
get_template_directory_uri(); ?>/css/ie7.css" type="text/css"
media="screen" />
<![endif]-->
<?php
if ( function_exists( 'get_option_tree') ) {
$phonetext = get_option_tree( 'value_phonetext' );
$phoneicon = get_option_tree( 'value_phoneicon' );
$offertext = get_option_tree( 'value_offertext' );
}
?>
<?php wp_head(); ?>
</head>
<body <?php body_class(); ?>>
For comparison, I would show the code for an html template in Plone
(which is basically just html) and put that next to the code for a
wordpress theme on a single slide.
I'd argue that, while installation and setup is pretty trivial with
wordpress, customization is becoming trickier. I gauge this by how
hard it is to teach to non-programmers.
--- The best part about UDP jokes is that nobody cares if you get them.
Dylan Jay
Dec 11, 2012, 2:31:24 PM12/11/12
to Steve McMahon, evang...@lists.plone.org
I have a talk last week at a CMS expo. The Drupal guy was boasting Drupal is now so easy he can teach someone in a month. In my talk I live demoed diazo by downloading the expo site and turned started turning into a theme. You can get someone doing diazo in a day. And that gets you a long way with plone.
Dylan Jay
Technical solution manager
PretaWeb 99552830
dduncan
Jan 15, 2013, 12:51:01 AM1/15/13
to evang...@lists.plone.org
Needing three years of experience to customize anything successfully in
Drupal is precisely why I don't use it. I understand having special
functions and all, but I don't see that much from Drupal to make it
worthwhile in my opinion.
Steve McMahon wrote
> dtlenergy@
> > wrote:
>
>> One thing I would say in favour of Wordpress is that more people know
>> how
>> to
>> program in PHP and use MySql than know
>> Python.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7561832.html
>> Sent from the Evangelism mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Evangelism mailing list
>>
> Evangelism@.plone
>> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Evangelism mailing list
> Evangelism@.plone
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7562492.html
Drupal is precisely why I don't use it. I understand having special
functions and all, but I don't see that much from Drupal to make it
worthwhile in my opinion.
Steve McMahon wrote
> A point to keep in mind about the "more people know PHP" point.
>
> A few years ago, I was at a symposium for advocacy organizations, and the
> lead Drupal speaker made just that point (PHP coders are cheap and
> plentiful!). However, at a Drupal-specific panel later in the day, he said
> that if you needed customization, you should never hire anyone with less
> than three years full-time programming with Drupal. He termed PHP
> experience outside Drupal "worthless" since they wouldn't know the Drupal
> way, and wouldn't be able to write safe code.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 9:09 AM, dtlenergy <
>
> A few years ago, I was at a symposium for advocacy organizations, and the
> lead Drupal speaker made just that point (PHP coders are cheap and
> plentiful!). However, at a Drupal-specific panel later in the day, he said
> that if you needed customization, you should never hire anyone with less
> than three years full-time programming with Drupal. He termed PHP
> experience outside Drupal "worthless" since they wouldn't know the Drupal
> way, and wouldn't be able to write safe code.
>
>
> dtlenergy@
> > wrote:
>
>> One thing I would say in favour of Wordpress is that more people know
>> how
>> to
>> program in PHP and use MySql than know
>> Python.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7561832.html
>> Sent from the Evangelism mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Evangelism mailing list
>>
>> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Evangelism mailing list
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-evangelism
--
View this message in context: http://plone.293351.n2.nabble.com/Looking-for-talking-points-comparing-Plone-vs-Wordpress-tp7560624p7562492.html
Servilio Afre Puentes
Jan 15, 2013, 9:19:11 AM1/15/13
to dduncan, evang...@lists.plone.org
dduncan <donny...@gmail.com> writes:
> Needing three years of experience to customize anything successfully in
> Drupal is precisely why I don't use it. I understand having special
> functions and all, but I don't see that much from Drupal to make it
> worthwhile in my opinion.
Don't forget deployment, even with drush in the picture it is several
> Needing three years of experience to customize anything successfully in
> Drupal is precisely why I don't use it. I understand having special
> functions and all, but I don't see that much from Drupal to make it
> worthwhile in my opinion.
steps behind buildout/fabric/etc. that we have in the Python ecosystem.
Servilio
T. Kim Nguyen
Jan 15, 2013, 11:34:16 AM1/15/13
to Servilio Afre Puentes, evang...@lists.plone.org
We're launching the Plone Symposium Midwest 2013 site (Come to Oshkosh this June 2-9!!!!), but I thought you might want to see what we included as the top navigational item on the site: "What is Plone?"
We are accepting talk proposals now! You heard it here first. :)
Go Plone!
Kim
--
Come to Plone Symposium Midwest, hosted at UW Oshkosh June 2-9, 2013!
Check out the new UW Oshkosh Intranet! (uwosh.edu/intranet)
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages