Re: Climate Repair Albedo Workshop 6 June

[John Nissen]

Hi Hugh,

I've just noticed you have me down under SAI.  I know Andrew Lockley well.  As moderator of the geoengineering googlegroup, he threw me out for reasons he refused to explain.  I would not feel comfortable speaking alongside him.  He has produced many spurious reasons against SAI, for example objecting to the use of a toxic material (re SO2) whatever the concentration.

That aside, I wish to represent PRAG at the workshop, and the agreed position is that we need to deploy SAI, MBC and possibly other techniques in parallel for refreezing the Arctic.  This position is reflected in the wording of the letter to the Bulletin of the Amic Scientists, I sent you.

My main concern is for refreezing the Arctic.  The Arctic tipping point processes (as per Sir David King's 3Ms "melting of Greenland, meandering of the jet stream and methane excursion) were activated in around 1980, and there is a significant risk of them becoming irreversible at 1.5C of global warming according to several studies.  The meandering of the (polar) jet stream is caused by a reduced temperature gradient between the Arctic and lower latitude which reduces the energy going into driving the Rossby wave eastward round the planet.  The wave gets stuck in blocking patterns which amplify weather: hot weather can be amplified into a heat dome, wet weather into a serious flood.  All this needs to be explained, because you don't get it from IPCC et al.

This concern for refreezing the Arctic should obviously come before the presentation of the various techniques. For refreezing the Arctic we need to pull out all the stops.  Think of the terrific 'trompetta real' you can hear at St John's College 😀.

 

SAI is a particularly promising technique for refreezing the Arctic. But it should be complemented by other techniques.  MCB by itself may not have enough cooling power, thus SAI might have to do the"heavy lifting".   MCB can produce local effects, whereas SAI can produce a blanket cooling.  MCB could prove invaluable for local cooling, e.g. to reduce hurricane intensity.

Cheers, John

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 10:17 PM Hugh Hunt <he...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:

Please find attached a draft agenda.  Any corrections/comments/feedback please "Reply All" to Shaun, Antionette and me.

Getting here:

Best by train - from London Kings Cross, St Pancras or Liverpool Street.

If by car then parking is best at your hotel.  Or else let me know and I can advise.

Hotels:  I don't really know what to recommend.

Ones nearby (no more than 10 mins walk from Trinity) are Varsity, Hotel du Vin, Graduate, Hilton City Centre, Lensfield.

Arundel House is nicely situated, just around the corner from my house.  A bit old fashioned, maybe.

I'm told that West Court Jesus College is good value (rooms in a College for the real Cambridge experience!)

Best wishes

Hugh

 

-- 

 

Professor Hugh Hunt   

Cambridge University Department of Engineering   

Professor of Engineering Dynamics and Vibration 

Praelector and Tutor, Trinity College Cambridge 

Deputy Director, Centre for Climate Repair Cambridge 

   +44 1223 332730 

   @hughhunt 

   www.eng.cam.ac.uk/~hemh1 

   www.climaterepair.cam.ac.uk 

 

[John Nissen]

Hi Shaun,

 Thanks for replying so graciously. I accept my place after Andrew on SAI. I have increasingly found that I have to defend SAI in order to maintain a balanced response to the climate crisis,  which is far more serious than the authorities seem to understand. There is little recognition that Arctic meltdown presents a huge security threat for the world. My own calculations suggest that SAI may be the only technique with sufficient scalability to reverse this meltdown though I will always fight to include a mixture of techniques for refreezing the Arctic since so much is at stake. 

Cheers John 

PS I would really appreciate your signature for our PRAG letter to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023, 23:51 Shaun D Fitzgerald, <sd...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:

Dear John

We will look at the agenda. I very much hope that the workshop on Tues will be convivial, and crucially this needs to be a forum for sharing of ideas and being respectful of different viewpoints. I will reinforce this at the opening of the day.

We have much to learn from each other – we may disagree at times, but it is through challenge that we often learn the most!

I am hoping that Andrew will in fact share his experiences on working outdoors more generally. We need to have an open mind.

I will be trying to ensure a positive mood in the discussion and if anyone is uncomfortable that will end up at least in part being my fault through not helping everyone accept different ways of expression from different people. I am acutely aware that I too may find it challenging.

Best wishes

Shaun

 

Dr Shaun Fitzgerald OBE FREng

Director, Centre for Climate Repair

Fellow, Girton College

M +44 7950 442864

 

www.climaterepair.cam.ac.uk

Skype: shaun.fitzgerald41

@DrSDFitzgerald

[Shaun D Fitzgerald]

Dear John

We will look at the agenda. I very much hope that the workshop on Tues will be convivial, and crucially this needs to be a forum for sharing of ideas and being respectful of different viewpoints. I will reinforce this at the opening of the day.

We have much to learn from each other – we may disagree at times, but it is through challenge that we often learn the most!

I am hoping that Andrew will in fact share his experiences on working outdoors more generally. We need to have an open mind.

I will be trying to ensure a positive mood in the discussion and if anyone is uncomfortable that will end up at least in part being my fault through not helping everyone accept different ways of expression from different people. I am acutely aware that I too may find it challenging.

Best wishes

Shaun

 

Dr Shaun Fitzgerald OBE FREng

Director, Centre for Climate Repair

Fellow, Girton College

M +44 7950 442864

 

www.climaterepair.cam.ac.uk

Skype: shaun.fitzgerald41

@DrSDFitzgerald

 

From: John Nissen <johnnis...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 3:44 PM
To: Hugh Hunt <he...@cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Shaun D Fitzgerald <sd...@cam.ac.uk>; Antoinette Nestor <Maria....@admin.cam.ac.uk>; Robert Tulip <rob...@rtulip.net>; Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>; Sir David King <d...@camkas.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Climate Repair Albedo Workshop 6 June

 

Hi Hugh,

[Dave King]

Dear Shaun and colleagues,

Regrettably I will not be able to be there on Tuesday - I have a very important meeting in London with a large group of global funders interested in funding aspects of climate crisis/climate repair work which is an all day event.

Best wishes - I look forward to an account of the discussion.

Dave King

[klin...@cox.net]

Dear Restorers,

I feel that the environmental costs of putting sulfur in the air must be properly addressed.  A serious proposal requires that all side issues be addressed, specifically economic and environmental issues.

In particular I'd want to know the number of additional asthma deaths attributable to additional amounts of sulfur, a known pollutant, in the atmosphere.  It's possible that the number of deaths might be somewhat reasonable and that can be weighed against, for example, the number of famine deaths attributable to runaway climate change feedback loops within two to four decades.  A sulfur nanoparticle scheme also competes against most likely safer airborne particles such as sodium chloride miniparticles.  Or, pure water vapor can be used to temporarily form extra clouds, completely eliminating that side problem.  I can't guarantee that sulfur can win any part of the heat reduction competition, but I'm still willing to listen. 

It's possible to schedule a limited use of sulfur over Southern polar regions, where the vast majority of sulfur released into the atmosphere will in time return to earth as precipitation without affecting many human lungs.  A partial geographic sulfur deployment might be a better tack because it partially avoids the asthma issue.

Within the nascent field of Applied Climate Restoration (my own term for a potential college department name) my own personal website, klinkmansolar.com, takes a 360 degree approach to progressively and fully solving our interlinked climate issues.  I weigh alternatives and then I call them as I see them, because personal climate honesty counts for me.  If I don't know which R&D horse will win a particular climate sub-race I recommend that both R&D alternatives be funded until a clear winner appears.

I'd normally prefer to sit in on this workshop but I'll be working for the Pawtucket, RI School Department on June 6.  I regret that my own potent alternatives won't be represented at the workshop.

Yours,

Paul Klinkman

[Tom Goreau]

It’s worth mentioning that since sulfate is the major strong acid in the atmosphere, increased sulfate is often balanced by increased hydrogen ion acidity, especially since it is divalent.

 

European and North American soils and forests have still not recovered from the coal burning sulfate acid rain of the 1950s-1970s before the ecologically disastrous impacts of acid rain were stopped by banning coal burning. The same is still happening to soils in China and India.

 

Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef Alliance

Chief Scientist, Blue Regeneration SL
President, Biorock Technology Inc.

Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK

37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139

gor...@globalcoral.org
www.globalcoral.org
Skype: tomgoreau
Tel: (1) 617-864-4226 (leave message)

 

Books:

Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase

http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466595392

 

Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration

http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466557734

 

No one can change the past, everybody can change the future

 

It’s much later than we think, especially if we don’t think

 

Those with their heads in the sand will see the light when global warming and sea level rise wash the beach away

 

Geotherapy: Regenerating ecosystem services to reverse climate change

 

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