More on the African rejection of SRM

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H simmens

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Aug 14, 2025, 2:42:30 PMAug 14
to HPAC, Planetary Restoration
SRM 360 asked four experts to reflect on the recent African ministerial meeting that led to the rejection of SRM and a call to embrace a non-use agreement. I have previously posted about the African decision to once again reject SRM

HPAC has engaged with two of these experts Ted Parson and Josh Horton. A third expert strongly applauded the African countries rejection of SRM and indicated that there are now somewhere around 60 global south countries that have explicitly rejected SRM. 

I am not aware of any global south countries that have embraced SRM so please speak up if you are aware of any. 

I will make my periodic assessment that unless and until one or more global scale pro SRM NGO’s are operating with sufficient resources we’re likely to see the same dismal outcomes year after year. 


Herb


Herb Simmens
Author of A Climate Vocabulary of the Future
“A SciencePoem and an Inspiration.” Kim Stanley Robinson
@herbsimmens
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H simmens

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Aug 14, 2025, 2:59:12 PMAug 14
to Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration
That may be Metta. 

But in the global south as most everywhere the vast majority of the population has not surprisingly little or no idea of what SRM is, what it can achieve and how bad the climate crisis is. 

Therefore the role of public opinion I think is quite marginal at this point in terms of influencing governments to do the right thing. 

This is particularly the case when a number of vehemently anti-SRM NGO’s‘s have been assiduously cultivating relationships with nations throughout the globe for many years now. Those nations I suspect almost never hear the other side of the story. 

Herb

Herb Simmens
Author of A Climate Vocabulary of the Future
“A SciencePoem and an Inspiration.” Kim Stanley Robinson
@herbsimmens
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On Aug 14, 2025, at 2:48 PM, Metta W Spencer <mspe...@web.net> wrote:


Odd. General public opinion in the global south is much more upportiver of geoengineering than. in the global north.
M
On Aug 14, 2025, at 2:42 PM, H simmens <hsim...@gmail.com> wrote:

SRM 360 asked four experts to reflect on the recent African ministerial meeting that led to the rejection of SRM and a call to embrace a non-use agreement. I have previously posted about the African decision to once again reject SRM

HPAC has engaged with two of these experts Ted Parson and Josh Horton. A third expert strongly applauded the African countries rejection of SRM and indicated that there are now somewhere around 60 global south countries that have explicitly rejected SRM. 

I am not aware of any global south countries that have embraced SRM so please speak up if you are aware of any. 

I will make my periodic assessment that unless and until one or more global scale pro SRM NGO’s are operating with sufficient resources we’re likely to see the same dismal outcomes year after year. 


Herb


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Metta W Spencer

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Aug 14, 2025, 3:37:47 PMAug 14
to H simmens, HPAC, Planetary Restoration

Odd. General public opinion in the global south is much more upportiver of geoengineering than. in the global north.
M
On Aug 14, 2025, at 2:42 PM, H simmens <hsim...@gmail.com> wrote:

SRM 360 asked four experts to reflect on the recent African ministerial meeting that led to the rejection of SRM and a call to embrace a non-use agreement. I have previously posted about the African decision to once again reject SRM

HPAC has engaged with two of these experts Ted Parson and Josh Horton. A third expert strongly applauded the African countries rejection of SRM and indicated that there are now somewhere around 60 global south countries that have explicitly rejected SRM. 

I am not aware of any global south countries that have embraced SRM so please speak up if you are aware of any. 

I will make my periodic assessment that unless and until one or more global scale pro SRM NGO’s are operating with sufficient resources we’re likely to see the same dismal outcomes year after year. 


Herb

Dr. Soumitra Das

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Aug 14, 2025, 5:01:58 PMAug 14
to H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration

I have not come across this opposition under other climate initiatives, so I understand why African nations might view SRM with particular caution:

  1. Historical distrust – Centuries of colonial exploitation create deep skepticism about powerful nations unilaterally taking control of the global thermostat.

  2. Uncertainty over impacts – Limited regional research leaves governments unsure how SRM might affect critical rainfall patterns and agricultural stability.

  3. Economic considerations – There may be fear that they could lose the Loss & Damage fund and other “green” investment streams if they support SRM.

Do you understand why the civil society groups in these countries are actively opposing SRM, and who is funding these campaigns?



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Tom Goreau

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Aug 14, 2025, 5:07:27 PMAug 14
to Dr. Soumitra Das, H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration

I think they suspect that this is just another western trick to keep them in poverty.

 

They incorrectly suspect ALL the scientists have been bought off by those destroying the planet for profit.

 

That’s largely true, but not completely!

 

 

 

 

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Tom Goreau

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Aug 14, 2025, 7:28:48 PMAug 14
to Dr. Soumitra Das, H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration

The South has a very weak critical independent press and is flooded with anti-science, anti-medicine, anti-logic lies propagated by political, religious, and “spiritual” interest groups of all stripes in the rich countries. These people actually seem to believe their own lies that ALL scientists, doctors, and engineers are flunkies hired by our political/religious/military naked emperors, so none can be trusted! To wit: idiots who believe weather modification actually works and is currently being used, as opposed to climate modification by fossil fuels, which clearly DOES work, faster than any model can predict, but which The Big Liars flatly deny exists!

 

All Southern countries are being flooded by manufactured lies from the fossil fuel-producing countries, deliberately inverting the facts about environmental change and runaway overshoot, so finding the real facts in the middle of the blizzard of lies takes real work, education, and common sense, no longer abundant anywhere!

 

A US Government lie very recently propagated world-wide claims that Australia now has more corals than ever, when in fact it has undergone three years of the worst high temperature mortality ever, not only on the Great Barrier Reef but also on Western Australia reefs, which were far better, though almost unknown. I’ve just found the first aerial photos along the length of the Great Barrier Reef, which my grandfather took in 1950, and the first film of magnificent healthy coral reefs, showing my father in Jamaica in 1957.

 

We have lots of idiots in developing countries too, but they don’t have the money to spread their Big Lies everywhere like rich fanatics with fossil fuel ca$h are doing.

 

Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef Alliance

Chief Scientist, Biorock Technology Inc., Blue Regeneration SL

Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK

37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139

gor...@globalcoral.org
www.globalcoral.org
Phone: (1) 857-523-0807 (leave message)

 

Books:

Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase

https://www.routledge.com/Geotherapy-Innovative-Methods-of-Soil-Fertility-Restoration-Carbon-Sequestration-and-Reversing-CO2-Increase/Goreau-Larson-Campe/p/book/9781466595392

 

Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration

https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/oa-edit/10.1201/b14314/innovative-methods-marine-ecosystem-restoration-robert-kent-trench-thomas-goreau

 

On the Nature of Things: The Scientific Photography of Fritz Goro

 

Geotherapy: Regenerating ecosystem services to reverse climate change

 

No one can change the past, everybody can change the future

 

It’s much later than we think, especially if we don’t think

 

Those with their heads in the sand will see the light when global warming and sea level rise wash the beach away

 

“When you run to the rocks, the rocks will be melting, when you run to the sea, the sea will be boiling”, Peter Tosh, Jamaica’s greatest song writer

 

“The Earth is not dying, she is being killed” U. Utah Phillips

 

“It is the responsibility of intellectuals to speak the truth and expose lies” Noam Chomsky

 

 

 

Robert Chris

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Aug 14, 2025, 7:47:51 PMAug 14
to Dr. Soumitra Das, H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration
Soumitra, this is a great response, a reminder to those who just focus on the climate science and technology, that the political dimensions of SRM are a BFD, and we forget that at our peril.  I particularly welcome your reference to historical distrust.  I doubt that most in the Global North would know what that even refers to!  After all, weren't our forebears the white men who civilised you?  😆😆
Regards
RobertC
From: healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dr. Soumitra Das <mr.soum...@gmail.com>
Sent: 14 August 2025 22:01
To: H simmens <hsim...@gmail.com>
Cc: Metta W Spencer <mspe...@web.net>; HPAC <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>; Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [prag] Re: [HPAC] More on the African rejection of SRM
 

I have not come across this opposition under other climate initiatives, so I understand why African nations might view SRM with particular caution:

Dr. Soumitra Das

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Aug 14, 2025, 8:44:50 PMAug 14
to Robert Chris, H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration

Robert C. — Historical distrust is a serious issue. People from the Global North, particularly those unfamiliar with the realities of colonial exploitation, often cannot fully appreciate its depth. For India, this began to change in the 1990s, but remnants still persist.

In fact, the level of distrust after independence in 1947 was so great that entire business communities were viewed with suspicion. This contributed to India’s meagre economic growth for decades, a period famously referred to as the “Hindu rate of growth.”

For a vivid sense of this history, you might watch Dr. Shashi Tharoor’s eloquent Oxford Union speech (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7CW7S0zxv4&t=23s), which went viral a few years ago. It captures the essence of colonial exploitation and its lasting consequences.

Michael MacCracken

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Aug 14, 2025, 10:18:54 PMAug 14
to Dr. Soumitra Das, H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration

Hi Soumitra--Good and interesting points. Seems like good reason to work the governance through the UN's sustainability process that makes sure discussion is not controlled by the developed nations--and cooling is needed to keep the SDG's a plausible effort, so reframe SRM as needed most by the developing nations.

Best, Mike

rob...@rtulip.net

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Aug 15, 2025, 2:30:26 AMAug 15
to Dr. Soumitra Das, Robert Chris, H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration

Hi Soumitra

 

This theme of distrust is central to Greta Thunberg’s worldview, with the argument that you cannot solve a problem with the same thinking that caused it, and that the imperial west has a technocratic arrogance that conceals hidden agendas of control and exploitation.  Suspicion about such imperial motives is totally justified.  Geoengineering can only succeed if it finds a new way of thinking that also critiques the imperial mentality. 

 

One way to reduce anti-colonial suspicion of climate interventions in poorer countries is to frame rebrightening the Earth through an Albedo Accord as grounded in Gaian spirituality.  To reframe sunlight reflection and cooling not as an imposition of industrialised nations, but as acts of service to the living Earth — Gaia — in which all peoples are co-stewards. The Gaian perspective sees Earth as a self-regulating, interdependent system in which humans are a conscious part, not separate masters. Geoengineering, in this light, is not “controlling the climate” but helping the planetary body heal from the stresses of industrialisation, much as a community cares for an ailing elder.

Goals should include:

  1. Ground the idea in shared cultural symbols — Many indigenous and traditional societies already hold cosmologies that regard Earth as a living being. Aligning SRM, albedo restoration and carbon removal with those traditions makes them a continuation rather than a disruption of existing worldviews.
  2. Promote global equity — Instead of technology transfer from “coloniser” to “colonised,” the Gaian model invites mutual participation: monitoring, decision-making, and benefits are shared in a planetary partnership that sees the planet through global thinking as a living being.
  3. Shift from extraction to reciprocity — The aim is not to exploit Earth’s systems for human gain, but to give back balance to the biosphere so that all species, human and non-human, can flourish.

By making geoengineering a sacred reciprocity with Gaia — the largest and most inclusive community of all — an Albedo Accord is removed from the framing as a project of powerful states and is understood as a collective rite of planetary care.

 

Regards

 

Robert Tulip

 

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Robert Chris

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Aug 15, 2025, 8:47:21 AMAug 15
to Jan Umsonst, Metta W Spencer, H simmens, HPAC, Planetary Restoration
Jan, this is a great response and illustrates the extent of the problem.
I don't have time right now to address this in the detail it warrants, but your comments are based on a total misunderstanding of the nature of the problem and the role that SRM might have in addressing it. 
For now, all I'll say is that we must remember that global warming is called global warming because it's global.  Although SRM is likely to have different regional impacts, it is quite likely that these can be modified by different deployment strategies.  But the key point is that the different regional impacts of not doing SRM and later coming to terms with the technical, financial and physical impossibility of avoiding even worse regional impacts through an ideological fixation on reducing atmospheric GHGs alone (by both emissions reductions and GGR), will delay effective climate action for everyone and make a climate induced collapse of civilisation as we know it (COCAWKI) very much more likely.
The problem here is not the danger of a veiled form of continued colonialism, but an overt failure of global collaboration.  This is neoliberalism leading us to the cliff edge, and unless we wise up in good time, it'll take us all over the edge.
Regards
Robert
From: healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jan Umsonst <j.o.u...@gmail.com>
Sent: 15 August 2025 11:31
To: Metta W Spencer <mspe...@web.net>
Cc: H simmens <hsim...@gmail.com>; HPAC <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>; Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [HPAC] More on the African rejection of SRM
 
Hi all, and they are dead right to do so. 

Your main mistake is to assume SRM is a technical fix that will be done "right" if the current order persist.

The reality will be that the industrial countries will use solar dimming to "save" themselves, while negative consequences for the global south are not only seen as a collateral but preferred as it helps to reinstall global dominance.

Global warming is seen as a means to get rid of competition as it is assumed that the countries of the north won't be to such a degree affected.

On the same side the extremist wing of the West e.g. fascist tec billionaires and Christian end times fascists see the climate breakdown as a means to take over state power creating their distopean sovereign  enclaves.

Either way SRM will be seen as a means for hegemony - China will likewise take this path if the Chinese Elites has to decides between tradeoffs and which regions it will hit most.

Therefore, the global south understands exactly why solar dimming won't be a solution for them but a means to worsen their situation...

Having said all the previous HPAC had to decide: follow the money or become truly revolutionary as the future of the biosphere of Earth is at stake...

Your role would be to raise awareness including the risks...

All the best

Jan





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Jan Umsonst

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Aug 15, 2025, 1:24:20 PMAug 15
to Metta W Spencer, H simmens, HPAC, Planetary Restoration
Hi all, and they are dead right to do so. 

Your main mistake is to assume SRM is a technical fix that will be done "right" if the current order persist.

The reality will be that the industrial countries will use solar dimming to "save" themselves, while negative consequences for the global south are not only seen as a collateral but preferred as it helps to reinstall global dominance.

Global warming is seen as a means to get rid of competition as it is assumed that the countries of the north won't be to such a degree affected.

On the same side the extremist wing of the West e.g. fascist tec billionaires and Christian end times fascists see the climate breakdown as a means to take over state power creating their distopean sovereign  enclaves.

Either way SRM will be seen as a means for hegemony - China will likewise take this path if the Chinese Elites has to decides between tradeoffs and which regions it will hit most.

Therefore, the global south understands exactly why solar dimming won't be a solution for them but a means to worsen their situation...

Having said all the previous HPAC had to decide: follow the money or become truly revolutionary as the future of the biosphere of Earth is at stake...

Your role would be to raise awareness including the risks...

All the best

Jan





'Metta W Spencer' via Healthy Planet Action Coalition (HPAC) <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com> schrieb am Do., 14. Aug. 2025, 20:48:
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Ron Baiman

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Aug 15, 2025, 3:50:00 PMAug 15
to Robert Chris, Jan Umsonst, Metta W Spencer, H simmens, HPAC, Planetary Restoration
Dear Robert C., Jan et al., 

Good discussion! 

In further support of Robert C's response to Jan, SAI is quite unique among SRM "direct climate cooling" - as opposed to TRM (Thermal Radiation Management) GHG and Greenhouse Particle short-term climate-driver emissions reduction - particularly methane and black carbon, and removal - particularly methane), in its (at global scale) uniform impact.
See for example the HPAC Urgent climate cooling Response WG estimation of a near-term cooling SRM and TRM prioritization in slides 6-8 of this: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1BiY6wCSYWYN1ihDJ1sNpzfwg4CqpOZVC/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=116465941111195452408&rtpof=true&sd=true -  comments welcome as we view this as a "living document"! )

Specifically with regard to SAI (the most impactful SRM method), even if not yet scaled up for global impact (a process that should be done gradually in order to be able to modify and adjust to reduce possible adverse impacts) it would be impossible to target by longitude or latitude (going toward the equator in either hemisphere) as this would be contravened by stratospheric general circulations around the globe and poleward. The only practically possible targeting would be poleward, hence the support by many for piloting SAI in the poles:   (https://doi.org/10.1093/oxfclm/kgae014 see p. 15-19) and then gradually moving to global scale if successful - both scientifically and in hopefully engendering more global political support.
 
On possible ideal strategies for practical progress with near-term cooling - agree with Mike, Herb and Robert.  But the trouble of course is that (esp. global and now increasingly US) human civilization is far from ideal. Unfortunately, in practice, power and prestige struggles among nations (or leaders as in the case of Trump, Putin, Netanyahu etc. ) may be more determinative in near term per the scenarios outlined in this abstract (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P4g5PtP5eBgsDlVdoXoGVcL0LQoe3SUG/view?usp=sharing )  submitted by members of the UR WG to the AGU2025 and for a10 minute presentation to the more informal "virtual workshop series on Stratospheric Aerosol Injection (SAI)" to be held 6 – 9 October 2025 via Zoom being organized by Visioni, von Hobe and Tilmes (https://www.wcrp-climate.org/ci-workshop-series-sai ).  

Final note.  I'm a radical economist, and have spent my entire career working (and organizing as a co-founder and long-term local and sometimes national DSA leader) both ideologically (in terms of confronting the capitalist ideological basis of mainstream economics - just updated my - public - short bio to make this more clear here- https://www.healthyplanetaction.org/home/about-us) and practically/politically against imperialism and all other forms of human injustice (hat would be another bio!) - but late in life realized that if we don't address the current and looming human (and other living species) global climate/environmental catastrophe, our efforts to make progress toward more just and sustainable human global civilization may be mute. (I had assumed "the bourgeoisie" - i.e. groups like the Sierra Club etc - would take care of this as preserving the environment was a "mom and apple pie" problem that all sectors of society would support - hah!).

 The basic problem is that the speed at which the climate/ecological crisis is unfolding far outpaces the rate at which human civilization is able to progress. I mostly agree with the goals of Thurberg, McKibben, Bernie, developing country activists against the long-term and current injustices of imperialism and colonialism, etc. but unfortunately we don't have time for "global revolution" or "GHG reduction and drawdown" alone to solve our current runaway existential problem! 

Best,
Ron








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John Nissen

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Aug 15, 2025, 4:53:04 PMAug 15
to Jan Umsonst, Metta W Spencer, H simmens, HPAC, Planetary Restoration, Robert Chris
Hi Jan,

Don't be misled by Robert Chris's response.  You are fundamentally wrong: African rejection of SRM is a rejection of the possibility of bringing down temperatures everywhere AND especially bringing down temperature extremes in places which are already uncomfortably hot: parts of Africa and much of India for example.  

Don't be misled by the IPCC, whose mission is to reduce CO2 emissions rather than the temperature.  Relying on emissions reduction alone to mitigate climate change would be catastrophic for the whole of humanity.

Without SRM the planet will suffer accelerated warming for decades if not centuries.  A partial collapse of the Greenland Ice Sheet becomes likely this century, remembering that the Arctic is warming about four times as fast as the rest of the planet.  This collapse will cause several metres of sea level rise and trigger an even greater number of metres from Antarctic glaciers:  River deltas and other low lying areas around the world will disappear.  Mass migration will be inevitable and this will stress global security to breaking point: consider the migration problem at the moment and multiply it by a thousand.  SRM is a no-brainer.

Without SRM to refreeze the Arctic and halt tipping point processes, the trend towards ever greater extremes of heat and drought will continue accelerating.  

The powers in the West (or Global North if you prefer) seem oblivious to the dangers ahead.  They are fighting among themselves over emission cuts, when this does not address the problem of overheating on any meaningful timescale.  It may well fall to the Global South (and I include India and China) to come together and make sure SRM is deployed as an emergency technique to cool the planet, and the Arctic with particular urgency.

Note that I would not be saying this if I thought SRM was itself extremely dangerous, or could be used in a dangerous way.   Stratospheric Aerosol Injection is the ideal cooling intervention in these respects.  Research suggests that it can be deployed remarkably safely and effectively; and it produces a blanket cooling effect such that everyone can benefit.

Note also that SRM is in line with the Gaia principle that organisms adjust their environment to suit themselves.  The planet is accelerating away from Holocene norms, and, to prosper, the human species requires those old norms to return.

Cheers, John



Robert Chris

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Aug 16, 2025, 7:49:24 AMAug 16
to rob...@rtulip.net, Dr. Soumitra Das, H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration
RobertT
I really like the reframing you've suggested here.  May I suggest that the HPAC steering committee focus its efforts on fleshing this out as a core principle underpinning what HPAC stands for and is trying to achieve.  This would move of it on from its obsession with the technofix revolution to more fruitful pastures of building a new narrative for climate change policy in general.  The great thing about this approach is that it reaches right across the triad and unifies it into one coherent global strategy.
Regards
RobertC
From: rob...@rtulip.net <rob...@rtulip.net>
Sent: 15 August 2025 07:30
To: 'Dr. Soumitra Das' <mr.soum...@gmail.com>; 'Robert Chris' <robert...@gmail.com>

Cc: 'H simmens' <hsim...@gmail.com>; 'Metta W Spencer' <mspe...@web.net>; 'HPAC' <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>; 'Planetary Restoration' <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [prag] Re: [HPAC] More on the African rejection of SRM
 

daleanne bourjaily

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Aug 18, 2025, 4:12:35 PMAug 18
to Tom Goreau, Dr. Soumitra Das, H simmens, Metta W Spencer, HPAC, Planetary Restoration
I completely agree, Tom.  In fact the African scientists we talk to think that the ANTI SRM activity is patronizing post -colonial lobbying.  

Politicians are another matter.  

Regards,
Dale Anne


Op vr 15 aug 2025 01:28 schreef Tom Goreau <gor...@globalcoral.org>:
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Jan Umsonst

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Aug 25, 2025, 6:55:00 AMAug 25
to Robert Chris, Metta W Spencer, H simmens, HPAC, Planetary Restoration

Hi Chris,


I fully agree that SRM will be needed to give us some time to reduce GHG concentrations with all we've got.


But the problem remains that in our current order with its incentives SRM would only be done to reduce the impacts for the industrial countries, while continuing as nothing is amiss.


Hence, the current order will implement SRM strategies which are favored by the largest lobbies who want to make profit and designed to reduce the impact of global warming for e.g. the west. Likely, China will do likewise as they are in the process to be overwhelmed by the impacts of extremes as the system pumps ever more moisture into China and on the other had starts to produce massive heatwaves in highly populated areas.


I short: SRM in the current world will be a mean to secure hegemony and not to save large parts of humanity from non-bearable effects of extremes.


Currently, global warming in itself is seen to secure hegemony against the rise of the developing countries as otherwise the behavior of the west is hard to explain as it becomes now clear that the economic effects for world economy will be disastrous...


Last: 


its by no means certain that SRM will function as all the known and not known side effects could put us even in a worse situation than with what we started - but still we will have to give it a try as the collapse of the biosphere and the self amplification of global warming will certainly push us over the civilisatory edge. But this will only make sense if the current world order is fundamentally changed with its root problems of centralization of wealth and power as it serves only the elites and not humanity...


All the best


Jan

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Tim Foresman

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Aug 25, 2025, 6:55:08 AMAug 25
to Jan Umsonst, Robert Chris, Metta W Spencer, H simmens, HPAC, Planetary Restoration
Please don't generalize Africa.  Bush said it was a big country.  With over 50 nations there is wide range of opinions and knowledge.  If you can cite specifics, great. 
Peace to all, Tim 

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Sent: Friday, August 22, 2025 8:46:51 AM
To: Robert Chris <robert...@gmail.com>; Metta W Spencer <mspe...@web.net>
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