Re: [HCA-list] HCA Community Meeting
John Nissen
Hi everyone,
We discussed methods to cool the Arctic. Increasing the reflection of sunlight is usually discussed; but there are also techniques to increase outgoing thermal radiation. I mentioned winter cloud removal, e.g. by cloud seeding. I didn’t know of any proposals for this but there are accepted techniques which could be used. The Chinese use canisters omitting silver iodide smoke to seed clouds and increase snow over the Himalayas. Water vapour is a powerful greenhouse gas, so it blocks thermal radiation from the ground; one gets frosts on cloudless nights.
Research suggests that SAI with injection of SO2 north of 60 degrees latitude could cool the Arctic at relatively low cost. The tropopause is around 8 km and ordinary aircraft can fly above it. If they fill some tanks with sulphurous fuel, they can bring these tanks into operation when flying high over the Arctic in late spring and early summer to achieve SAI cooling.
SO2 in the troposphere has a large cooling effect. Reducing SO2 emissions has boosted global warming since measures were adopted in 1980. Further measures, e.g. to stop using bunker fuel in ships, could double the rate of global warming.
When they die, phytoplankton and some other marine organisms Brian mentioned, give off DMS and other substances which have a cloud brightening effect. Promotion of phytoplankton blooms in the North Atlantic and North Pacific oceans could help to cool surface water flowing into the Arctic.
Cheers, John
Hello All,--Happy New Year!This will be the usual open session this Saturday, so bring yourselves and the projects you are working on ready to share.There are 2 items I would like to talk about specifically:
- What are our intentions for the year
- Given the unprecedented rise in temperature across Europe this Winter, what can be done about this? Does this suggest that some form of SRM is required and quickly?
As always please invite others so as to expand our community and the conversation about climate restoration.My intent is that these meeting are held every 2 weeks and are to build connections in our community, get support and ideas for challenges you face and also an opportunity for people to share about the projects they are interested in or at work on, as this provides inspiration for all.Further guest speakers are being lined up and I will let you know as things are finalised.BTW if you are willing to be a guest speaker please contact me, dont forget subjects can be wide ranging and can include:
- creating political liaisons
- Making funding requests and applications
- How art can influence human perception and engagement to messages & movements
Hopefully that gave you all something to ponder!Date 07/01/2023, time 7 to 8pm GMT OR 11 to 12am California time.Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/241622685?pwd=amk3c1FMODBuQzM4emY3L0EvdlBvUT09
Meeting ID: 241 622 685
Passcode: 595821
One tap mobile
+16699006833,,241622685# US (San Jose)
+13462487799,,241622685# US (Houston)
Dial by your location
+1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose)
+1 346 248 7799 US (Houston)
+1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma)
+1 301 715 8592 US (Germantown)
+1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago)
+1 646 876 9923 US (New York)
Meeting ID: 241 622 685
Find your local number: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/kGHjLYrnHRegardsMark Hibbert
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Healthy Climate Alliance" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to healthy-climate-al...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/healthy-climate-alliance/CACAakvzEf-mAN8uD%2Bz_WYrSVa6fowWwZXxH7B%2Bcv_RdYeonDSQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Brian von Herzen
http://www.climatefoundation.org/
NASA modeling has determined that carbon levels above 350 ppm are incompatible with sustaining a planet similar to that on which civilization has developed and to which life on Earth is adapted (James Hansen). In May, 2019, the Keeling curve exceeded 415 ppm for the first time in recorded history.
There have been a lot of claims that dimethyl sulfide and other sulfur gases released by phytoplankton are a major control on ocean temperature, but in fact the amount of sulfur gases from ocean sources is trivial compared to fossil fuel combustion and volcanoes, so it is hard to see how it could be a major regulator of global temperatures. The sources are mostly around Antarctica, so it cannot explain North Polar amplification. The shipping bunker fuel sulfur sources were larger, and have vanished in the last few years.
Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef AllianceChief Scientist, Blue Regeneration SL
President, Biorock Technology Inc.Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK
37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
goreau@globalcoral.org
www.globalcoral.org
Skype: tomgoreau
Tel: (1) 617-864-4226 (leave message)
Books:
Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase
http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466595392
Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration
http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466557734
No one can change the past, everybody can change the future
It’s much later than we think, especially if we don’t think
Those with their heads in the sand will see the light when global warming and sea level rise wash the beach away
Geotherapy: Regenerating ecosystem services to reverse climate change
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to healthy-climate-alliance+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/healthy-climate-alliance/CACAakvzEf-mAN8uD%2Bz_WYrSVa6fowWwZXxH7B%2Bcv_RdYeonDSQ%40mail.gmail.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Healthy Planet Action Coalition (HPAC)" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to healthy-planet-action-coalition+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/healthy-planet-action-coalition/CACS_FxoGWn-gVKRHDUhpem_0_7snL_Rqw-Xt3yqbDYs1huyY3A%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Stephen Salter
John
Dimethyl sulphide comes from living phytoplankton. Its effect on climate is by providing cloud condensation nuclei exactly the same as sea salt. Check out
Charlson, R. J., J. E. Lovelock, M. 0. Andreae, and S. G. Warren. 1987. Oceanic phytoplankton, atmospheric sulfur, cloud albedo and climate. Nature 326:655-661.
and
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/01965581.1988.10749540
Stephen
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
University of Edinburgh
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
Scotland
0131 650 5704 or 0131 662 1180
YouTube Jamie Taylor Power for Change
From: planetary-...@googlegroups.com <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>
On Behalf Of John Nissen
Sent: 07 January 2023 22:08
To: Mark Hibbert <mark...@gmail.com>
Cc: Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>; healthy-planet-action-coalition <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>; Healthy Climate Alliance <healthy-clim...@googlegroups.com>; 'Eelco Rohling' via NOAC Meetings
<noac-m...@googlegroups.com>; Brian von Herzen <br...@climatefoundation.org>; Peter Wadhams <peterw...@gmail.com>
Subject: [prag] Re: [HCA-list] HCA Community Meeting
This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email is genuine and the content is safe.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Planetary Restoration" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
planetary-restor...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/planetary-restoration/CACS_FxoGWn-gVKRHDUhpem_0_7snL_Rqw-Xt3yqbDYs1huyY3A%40mail.gmail.com.
Tom Goreau
There have been a lot of claims that dimethyl sulfide and other sulfur gases released by phytoplankton are a major control on ocean temperature, but in fact the amount of sulfur gases from ocean sources is trivial compared to fossil fuel combustion and volcanoes, so it is hard to see how it could be a major regulator of global temperatures. The sources are mostly around Antarctica, so it cannot explain North Polar amplification. The shipping bunker fuel sulfur sources were larger, and have vanished in the last few years.
Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef Alliance
Chief Scientist, Blue Regeneration SL
President, Biorock Technology Inc.
Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK
37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
www.globalcoral.org
Skype: tomgoreau
Tel: (1) 617-864-4226 (leave message)
Books:
Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase
http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466595392
Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration
http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466557734
No one can change the past, everybody can change the future
It’s much later than we think, especially if we don’t think
Those with their heads in the sand will see the light when global warming and sea level rise wash the beach away
Geotherapy: Regenerating ecosystem services to reverse climate change
Date: Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 5:08 PM
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Healthy Planet Action Coalition (HPAC)" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
healthy-planet-action...@googlegroups.com.
lee mcnair
"May you be filled with loving kindness.
May you be safe from inner and outer harm.
May you be healthy in body and mind.
May you find Peace and be truly happy. "
Find out whose land you’re on at https://native-land.ca/
I live on the lands of the
Nacotchtank (Anacostan) or the lands of the
Piscataway.
Clive Elsworth
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/healthy-planet-action-coalition/CAKzN3YzREF573N-dzZFMVCHcLSbpztuJ8boLsC4hVPNhGiXVEw%40mail.gmail.com.
Sev Clarke
Tom Goreau
The DMS produced in the ocean is very quickly converted to other sulfur compounds! A lot is made, but most is consumed (about 90%) rather than released into the atmosphere, where it is oxidized to sulfate, making a major portion of the global atmosphere non-sea-salt sulfate.
If you look carefully at real time maps of global atmospheric SO2, oceanic sources are clearly very minor compared to fossil fuel combustion and volcanic emissions, but you can see traces of it from the circum-Antarctic Current.
When the proposal was first made that DMS acted as negative feedback that could suppress global warming (by Jim Lovelock) measurements were made of DMS concentrations in Antarctic Ice. The distribution found was the opposite of that expected by this hypothesis, DMS was highest during glacials not interglacials.
There is a lot more to be learned about its behavior before we can count on DMS to save the planet.
Thomas J. F. Goreau, PhD
President, Global Coral Reef Alliance
Chief Scientist, Blue Regeneration SL
President, Biorock Technology Inc.
Technical Advisor, Blue Guardians Programme, SIDS DOCK
37 Pleasant Street, Cambridge, MA 02139
www.globalcoral.org
Skype: tomgoreau
Tel: (1) 617-864-4226 (leave message)
Books:
Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase
http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466595392
Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration
http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466557734
No one can change the past, everybody can change the future
It’s much later than we think, especially if we don’t think
Those with their heads in the sand will see the light when global warming and sea level rise wash the beach away
Geotherapy: Regenerating ecosystem services to reverse climate change
From: Brian von Herzen <br...@climatefoundation.org>
Date: Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 8:22 PM
To: Tom Goreau <gor...@globalcoral.org>
Cc: John Nissen <johnnis...@gmail.com>, Mark Hibbert <mark...@gmail.com>, Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>, healthy-planet-action-coalition <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>, Healthy Climate Alliance
<healthy-clim...@googlegroups.com>, Eelco Rohling <noac-m...@googlegroups.com>, Peter Wadhams <peterw...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HCA-list] HCA Community Meeting
Previous messages in this thread have claimed that anthropogenic sulfur greatly exceeds natural sulfur. However, a simple analysis yields the following: , volcanic and anthropogenic S emissions are comparable, at roughly 3e11 moles/year. Based on the following analysis, sulfur from global algae are likely substantially at least an order of magnitude larger.
www.globalcoral.org
Skype: tomgoreau
Tel: (1) 617-864-4226 (leave message)
Books:
Geotherapy: Innovative Methods of Soil Fertility Restoration, Carbon Sequestration, and Reversing CO2 Increase
http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466595392
Innovative Methods of Marine Ecosystem Restoration
http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781466557734
No one can change the past, everybody can change the future
It’s much later than we think, especially if we don’t think
Those with their heads in the sand will see the light when global warming and sea level rise wash the beach away
Geotherapy: Regenerating ecosystem services to reverse climate change
Date: Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 5:08 PM
To: Mark Hibbert <mark...@gmail.com>
Cc: Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>, healthy-planet-action-coalition <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>, Healthy Climate Alliance <healthy-clim...@googlegroups.com>, 'Eelco Rohling' via NOAC Meetings <noac-m...@googlegroups.com>, Brian von Herzen <br...@climatefoundation.org>, Peter Wadhams <peterw...@gmail.com>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to healthy-climate-al...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/healthy-climate-alliance/CACAakvzEf-mAN8uD%2Bz_WYrSVa6fowWwZXxH7B%2Bcv_RdYeonDSQ%40mail.gmail.com.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Healthy Planet Action Coalition (HPAC)" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to healthy-planet-action...@googlegroups.com.
John Nissen
Hi Brian, Tom, Stephen, Sev,
You may all be right! Brian may be correct in his calculation of DMS quantities. The DMS is quickly (within a day or two) converted into other compounds [1]; so it’s not surprising that Antarctic ice cores showed higher levels of DMS during glacials than in interglacials, Tom. That phytoplankton blooms increase CNN, at least in the Arctic, is shown in this paper [2], but the actual cooling effect might have been very small. Stephen is right that there is a MCB effect: however on a small point I believe the dead plankton bodies emit DMS, not the live ones. Sev shows that the dramatic cooling achievable with floating flakes is from the increased albedo of flakes (“something like 0.12”) compared with ocean (0.06) which provides the bulk of the cooling. The maximum albedo change achievable with Stephen’s MCB is comparable (about 0.05) and the area of suitable cloud for brightening might be a similar fraction of the ocean available for flakes. However, I see the problem of obtaining anything like the theoretical maximum amount of cooling is maintaining the brightness of the clouds over long periods. By contrast, Sev’s flakes could last for weeks or months without replenishment and then replenishment would be simple.
On increasing outgoing radiation, Sev makes a good point about “anything which increases evaporation”. Thus the more intense the hurricane, the greater the evaporation, the greater the clouds and the more IR sent into space. This is a huge negative feedback to global warming, which I don’t think has been included in models. The implication for action is that we don’t want to reduce negative feedback too quickly; but we can reduce the devastation by lowering Arctic temperatures, restoring jet stream behaviour and thereby preventing the jet stream blocking patterns which cause extremes, such as the flooding in Texas – three times previous record I learnt from an AGU paper.
Cheers, John
P.S. The DMS part of this conversation is being transferred to a new thread: “DMS and climate”.
[1] Chen et al. (EGU, 2018)
DMS oxidation and sulfur aerosol formation in the marine troposphere: a focus on reactive halogen and multiphase chemistry
https://acp.copernicus.org/preprints/acp-2018-410/acp-2018-410.pdf
Abstract
The oxidation of dimethyl sulfide (DMS) in the troposphere and subsequent chemical conversion into sulfur dioxide (SO2) and methane sulfonic acid (MSA) are key processes for the formation and growth of sulfur-containing aerosol and cloud condensation nuclei (CCN), but is highly simplified in large-scale models of the atmosphere. In this study, we implement a series of gas-phase and multiphase sulfur oxidation mechanisms into the GEOS-Chem global chemical transport model, including two important intermediates dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) and methane sulphinic acid (MSIA), to investigate the sulfur cycle in the global marine troposphere. We found that DMS is mainly oxidized in the gas phase by OH (66%), NO3 (16%) and BrO (12%) globally. DMS+BrO is important for the model’s ability to reproduce the observed seasonality of surface DMS mixing ratio in the Southern Hemisphere. MSA is mainly produced from multiphase oxidation of MSIA by O3(aq) (69%) and OH(aq) (25%) in cloud droplets and aerosols. Aqueous-phase reaction with OH accounts for 38% of MSA removal globally and is important for the model’s ability to reproduce observations of MSA/nssSO4²-ratio in the Southern Hemisphere.
The modelled conversion yield of DMS into SO2 and MSA is 78% and 13%, respectively, compared to 91% and 9% in the standard model run that includes only gas-phase oxidation of DMS by OH and NO3. The largest uncertainties for modeling sulfur chemistry in the marine boundary layer (MBL) are unknown concentrations of reactive halogens (BrO and Cl) and OH(aq) concentrations in cloud droplets and aerosols. To reduce uncertainties in MBL sulfur chemistry, we should prioritize observations of reactive halogens and OH(aq).
Introduction
The biogenic emission of dimethyl sulfide (DMS: CH3SCH3) from the ocean is the largest natural sulfur source to the atmosphere (Andreae, 1990). After emission, DMS is mainly oxidized in the troposphere, with a lifetime against oxidation of 1-2 days (Chin et al., 1996; Boucher et al., 2003; Breider et al., 2010). The oxidation of DMS and subsequent formation of other sulfur species such as sulfuric acid (H2SO4) and methane sulfonic acid (MSA: CH3SO3H) are crucial for the formation and evolution of natural aerosols and clouds in the marine boundary layer (MBL) and thus have profound climate implications (Charlson et al., 1987; von Glasow and Crutzen, 2004; Thomas et al., 2010). In particular, Carslaw et al. (2013) pointed out that natural aerosols, such as those that originate from DMS oxidation, account for the largest uncertainty of aerosol radiative forcing in climate models.
[2] Park et al. (AGU, 2021)
Dimethyl Sulfide-Induced Increase in Cloud Condensation Nuclei in the Arctic Atmosphere
Plain language summary
Marine phytoplankton can produce gaseous dimethyl sulfide (DMS), which is the most abundant form of sulfur released into the atmosphere through sea-air gas exchange. The polar oceans are known to be the most productive ocean in terms of DMS due to the high abundance of DMS-producing phytoplankton. The oceanic emission of DMS into the marine atmosphere has received substantial attention during the last 30 years because of its contribution to cloud formation and its subsequent impact on climate. However, the climate feedback role of DMS remains uncertain due to insufficient evidence supporting DMS-derived formation of aerosol particles and their subsequent activation into cloud condensation nuclei (CCN), in turn affecting the Earth's radiation budget. In this study, we analyzed atmospheric DMS mixing ratios, and concentrations of aerosol particles and CCN in the Arctic atmosphere during the phytoplankton bloom period. Our results show that atmospheric DMS affects the formation and growth of aerosol particles and significantly contributes to CCN populations.
Stephen Salter
Hi All
John Nissen seems to imply that there is a hard, absolute upper limit to cooling from marine cloud brightening.
The diagram below from The digest of Twomey’s paper by Schwartz and Slingo (Crutzen and Ramanathan, Clouds and Chemistry Springer 1996 figure 4) shows that each doubling of condensation nuclei gives a bit over 5% increase of reflectivity. Pick any point along the relative number density axis and draw a vertical line up to the sloped line. Then go horizontally to any of the four vertical axes to get top of clouds, top of atmosphere, global mean reflectivity or forcing in watts per square metre. There is not an absolute limit. It just keeps getting harder to do.
Twomey’s work was instrument observations from chaps in aeroplanes flying over and into real clouds at a time before ordinary people had computers so should carry more weight than climate models.
It has been replicated with good agreement (‘remarkable well’) by Andrew Ackerman
see DOI:10.1175/1520-0469(2000)057<2684:EOAOCA>2.0.CO;2.
Stephen
Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design
School of Engineering
University of Edinburgh
Mayfield Road
Edinburgh EH9 3DW
Scotland
0131 650 5704 or 0131 662 1180
YouTube Jamie Taylor Power for Change
From: John Nissen <johnnis...@gmail.com>
Sent: 08 January 2023 13:54
To: Tom Goreau <gor...@globalcoral.org>; Sev Clarke <sevc...@me.com>; Brian von Herzen <br...@climatefoundation.org>; Stephen Salter <S.Sa...@ed.ac.uk>
Cc: Planetary Restoration <planetary-...@googlegroups.com>; healthy-planet-action-coalition <healthy-planet-...@googlegroups.com>; Healthy Climate Alliance <healthy-clim...@googlegroups.com>; 'Eelco Rohling' via NOAC Meetings
<noac-m...@googlegroups.com>; Peter Wadhams <peterw...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HCA-list] HCA Community Meeting
This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email is genuine and the content is safe.
Hi Brian, Tom, Stephen, Sev,
Tom Goreau
The explanation suggested for high Glacial Ice sulfur was that it was due to land derived sulfate from dust.
Ice Glacial dust greatly increased over Interglacial conditions because winds were very intense due to steepened equator to pole gradients blowing dust from arid areas of Patagonia and the Andes. But increased wind and waves would also have greatly increased sea sulfate spray into the atmosphere from BOTH increased breaking wave spray, and also from volatilization of DMS.
DMS is a degradation product of dimethylsulfonopropionate (DMSP), produced in large amounts as the major biochemical cell osmotic pressure regulator by marine algae, both phytoplankton and benthic, as well as by seagrasses and salt marsh plants, and by corals, so it is high in coastal areas. Marine organisms produce it when they are alive to balance the osmotic pressure of dissolved salts in the cellular matrix and allow membrane uptake of critical nutrients, but will leak it rapidly when they die or are eaten.
The water vapor effect is double sworded. More water vapor, more IR absorption, but I if it is in the right kinds of clouds in the right places, more reflection of sunlight back to space. The cloud models are not good enough to predict this accurately.