Please support index.php template overides like this or similar...

[Tony]

I like pixie for it's simplicity and because it's jquery friendly.
However, I can't get along with this whole - Not being able to
manipulate index.php thing. You have to go through the pixie
index.php, which is no good for updates because you then have to
revise index.php. I'm not personally a fan of hacking core for any
reason.

So please consider my proposition for index.php template overrides. I
have done it like this here but you may know of a better way :

// This code is above the pixie's index.php's doctype declaration //

<?php if (file_exists('admin/themes/'.$site_theme.'/index.php')) :
include('admin/themes/'.$site_theme.'/index.php');
else : ?>

Then :

// This code at the very bottom of index.php //

<?php endif; ?>
<?php
}
?>

Now I can create index.php in a template's directory containing the
code copied from pixie's index.php, from the doc type declaration all
the way down to the closing html tag. Ready to be tweaked.
It works, I just tried it.

My motivation for doing this is to add rounded corners to some
elements, provide empty divs to use as containers for ajax to use with
jquery and a nice little revision on the template's css structure. I
cannot do that by css alone. :)

So please try it and I'd love to see something like it as part of
pixie's core.
If not, the hack is here for others as a reference on how to do it.

Thanks,
Tony

[rvause]

Thanks for this one Tony, this will be really useful for separating
the structure in different themes I make for Pixie. I agree that CSS
is not versatile enough to be solely relied on.

[Tony]

Hi rvause,
The only other way I could think of to inject divs (Or any other
elements with classes and ids) Into the dom, to be able to do what I
wanted involved using a jquery block on every page but that seemed
like too much of a complex solution.
Simpler is better. Glad you like the hack and I hope it saves you some
time and helps you to create an appealing and functional advanced
design.

Thanks,
Tony

[Scott]

Nice tip Tony, thanks very much. I will get this added into the core
code. Its a nice simple stop gap until I discover a nicer way of
providing templates. I think most people feel that while using CSS is
quite powerful - it falls short for most projects.

Here are few of the things I am thinking about at the moment.

Should a CMS be simply a content management system (e.g. cushy cms
http://www.cushycms.com/) or should it be a tool for building the site
as well (e.g. current Pixie/WordPress.). With CMSs like WordPress -
they force you to learn a new template language and hooks to build the
site, with tools like Cushy you can use your own HTML and put the site
together however you like. This has a direct impact on how a designer/
developer approaches the site build. The power of tools like Cushy is
that they do not have a learning curve - however they fall short when
it comes to powering blogs etc.

Scott

[rm]

However, I don't think you should lose the core of what you intended
with Pixie. I understand that at the outset, you wanted to provide a
simple tool to handle the guts of a site, whilst relying solely on the
CSS to handle the presentation. In that regard, I think you have been
successful. If you allow Pixie to continually incorporate new
features, then won't it drift away from what it is meant to be?

For those features that more advanced users may be missing, I think
your current model that allows those users to write their own modules,
blocks, and ultimately manipulate the Pixie code itself works well.
That way, you are not turning away the thousands of users that are
perfectly happy with Pixie the way it is.

Perhaps all that is required is some better documentation (for
example, SimplePie's approach like "You can look up a specific class
or method by going to http://ref.simplepie.org/[method name] which is
just like how you can look up PHP functions..." ).

I think Pixie is positioned nicely where it is ... there are lots of
CMS that are far too complicated, just as there are CMS (may as well
skip a CMS entirely in some cases) that don't allow allow one to do as
much as he or she wants. How many other CMS are there that compete
with Pixie at its own level?

On Nov 28, 8:44 am, Scott <scotts...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nice tip Tony, thanks very much. I will get this added into the core
> code. Its a nice simple stop gap until I discover a nicer way of
> providing templates. I think most people feel that while using CSS is
> quite powerful - it falls short for most projects.
>
> Here are few of the things I am thinking about at the moment.
>

> Should a CMS be simply a content management system (e.g. cushy cmshttp://www.cushycms.com/) or should it be a tool for building the site

[Tony]

On Nov 28, 3:03 pm, rm <ralph.a.ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> However, I don't think you should lose the core of what you intended
> with Pixie. I understand that at the outset, you wanted to provide a
> simple tool to handle the guts of a site, whilst relying solely on the
> CSS to handle the presentation. In that regard, I think you have been
> successful. If you allow Pixie to continually incorporate new
> features, then won't it drift away from what it is meant to be?
>
> For those features that more advanced users may be missing, I think
> your current model that allows those users to write their own modules,
> blocks, and ultimately manipulate the Pixie code itself works well.
> That way, you are not turning away the thousands of users that are
> perfectly happy with Pixie the way it is.
>
> Perhaps all that is required is some better documentation (for
> example, SimplePie's approach like "You can look up a specific class

> or method by going tohttp://ref.simplepie.org/[method name] which is

> just like how you can look up PHP functions..." ).
>
> I think Pixie is positioned nicely where it is ... there are lots of
> CMS that are far too complicated, just as there are CMS (may as well
> skip a CMS entirely in some cases) that don't allow allow one to do as
> much as he or she wants. How many other CMS are there that compete
> with Pixie at its own level?
>
> On Nov 28, 8:44 am, Scott <scotts...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Nice tip Tony, thanks very much. I will get this added into the core
> > code. Its a nice simple stop gap until I discover a nicer way of
> > providing templates. I think most people feel that while using CSS is
> > quite powerful - it falls short for most projects.
>
> > Here are few of the things I am thinking about at the moment.
>
> > Should a CMS be simply a content management system (e.g. cushy cmshttp://www.cushycms.com/) or should it be a tool for building the site
> > as well (e.g. current Pixie/WordPress.). With CMSs like WordPress -
> > they force you to learn a new template language and hooks to build the
> > site, with tools like Cushy you can use your own HTML and put the site
> > together however you like. This has a direct impact on how a designer/
> > developer approaches the site build. The power of tools like Cushy is
> > that they do not have a learning curve - however they fall short when
> > it comes to powering blogs etc.
>
> > Scott

Hi rm,
index.php overrides in this manner is the simplest way that seems to
exist for now. Doing index.php overrides if you are an experienced web
designer is a must. What would be complicated and not in tune with
pixie's simplicity, would be a template engine and bloated api for
generating and manipulating index.php.
This way is simple and most of all it works.

See a joomla index.php template for examples of how to do it
complicatedly : <?php echo JURI::base();;?> instead of : <?php echo
$site_url;?>. I know which I think is simpler. Drupal's template
system too with it's api calls.
I can't see the point in deliberately making obstructions to options
that allow more complicated configurations as long as pixie's core is
simple by design. Extensibility is the key (You can do whatever you
want with it) And template overrides are a very important part of
preventing the need for a complicated api to manipulate big site wide
changes in a simple and easy way.

Thanks,
Tony

[rm]

You and I are on the same page. I think that a simple index.php
override is great. What I caution Scott about is making Pixie into
something more bloated than it need be. "...With CMSs like WordPress -

they force you to learn a new template language and hooks to build the
site, with tools like Cushy you can use your own HTML and put the site
together however you like. This has a direct impact on how a designer/
developer approaches the site build. The power of tools like Cushy is
that they do not have a learning curve - however they fall short when

it comes to powering blogs etc." What you have proposed is exactly in
keeping with what Pixie spirit, I think.

[Scott]

@Tony
I have committed the index.php override code into the core. All tested
and working: http://code.google.com/p/pixie-cms/source/detail?r=385

@rm @tony @everyone
I am at a point where I want to start thinking about ways to improve
Pixie - what (if anything) I should work on first. I am interested in
a few things.

First I would like to come up with a clear plan for the project. I
have lots of ideas at the moment but have not made any decisions yet.
I am constantly testing out other CMS projects and every now and then
I find an idea that I like... every CMS though has some pitfall. The
code base behind Pixie needs some love and I think more can be done to
make it even simpler for the end user. What I do not like about CMSs
like WordPres is the learning curve for those who are not well versed
in PHP. What I like about Cushy is that it allows you to use your own
HTML - however, it is only suitable for very basic page editing. Its
flawed in that respect, as most sites require at least a blog these
days. Any conversation about your thoughts on this is good for me as I
can bear it in mind when/if I make any decisions.

What is it about Pixie you love?
What is it about Pixie you hate?

Second, I would like to investigate ways I can monetise the project.
If I can generate a revenue from Pixie (even a small revenue) - I can
afford to spend more time working on it. This should make it better
for everyone. Ideas at the moment are for a payed support model (as
well as the existing free forum) and a shop for themes and modules. I
would be interested in feedback on this too.

Thanks for all your input on this :)

Scott

[Tony]

Hi Guys,
Scott, I think that your roadmap for pixie is good :
http://www.getpixie.co.uk/support/article/roadmap/
Site search module/plugin is an excellent idea and a must for lots of
people (Especially to search blog archives.)
I think a site search that has a default of "Search the site" and a
radio button that allows users to "Search with google" Is a good idea.
Put your adsense code as the default (To generate revenue for pixie)
But allow users to change the adsense key to their own key (It's their
site.)
Improved dashboard with much better statistics visualisation and Digg
spy style updates sounds good. Clients always want to see their site's
statistics.
Just a pixie admin plugin for this : http://piwik.org/
http://piwik.org/faq/plugins/#faq_20
Would save a good deal of time. Paid google adsense pixie admin
integration if you want to monetise statistics.

Complete code re-write, considering using the Simple PHP Framework.
Now this one, I would consider codeigniter : http://codeigniter.com/
for instead. It has a small footprint and there aren't that many
really great sites built using Simple PHP Framework that I have seen,
whereas there's a whole ton built with codeigniter :
http://codeigniter.com/projects/ which kind of shows how wasy it must
be to pick up and use.

To monetise pixie, I think that the code base should be split. Pixie
open source edition based on the current codebase, with community
support, security and minor functionality updates periodically.
Sticking with the tried and tested code base. Then Pixie Pro. A
complete re-write from scratch using codeigniter, which you charge a
reasonable fee for, along with paid support options and it's not open
source.
Also, paid versions of some modules, plugins and blocks for both
versions may be profitable depending on what they do and how well they
work.
Paid themes too. There's industry for both of those as the project
grows, it's especially the norm for joomla developers to retail things
like that on-line.

If you want a successful business model to follow : http://www.silverstripe.com/
Is one to investigate. They are making exceptional business growth in
New Zealand.

As long as your simple approach remains, pixie will flourish, whatever
you do with it. :)

Thanks,
Tony

[Tony]

> Just a pixie admin plugin for this :http://piwik.org/http://piwik.org/faq/plugins/#faq_20

> Would save a good deal of time. Paid google adsense pixie admin
> integration if you want to monetise statistics.
>
> Complete code re-write, considering using the Simple PHP Framework.
> Now this one, I would consider codeigniter :http://codeigniter.com/
> for instead. It has a small footprint and there aren't that many
> really great sites built using Simple PHP Framework that I have seen,

> whereas there's a whole ton built with codeigniter :http://codeigniter.com/projects/which kind of shows how wasy it must

> be to pick up and use.
>
> To monetise pixie, I think that the code base should be split. Pixie
> open source edition based on the current codebase, with community
> support, security and minor functionality updates periodically.
> Sticking with the tried and tested code base. Then Pixie Pro. A
> complete re-write from scratch using codeigniter, which you charge a
> reasonable fee for, along with paid support options and it's not open
> source.
> Also, paid versions of some modules, plugins and blocks for both
> versions may be profitable depending on what they do and how well they
> work.
> Paid themes too. There's industry for both of those as the project
> grows, it's especially the norm for joomla developers to retail things
> like that on-line.
>
> If you want a successful business model to follow :http://www.silverstripe.com/
> Is one to investigate. They are making exceptional business growth in
> New Zealand.
>
> As long as your simple approach remains, pixie will flourish, whatever
> you do with it. :)
>
> Thanks,
> Tony

Or Pixie Pro open source with only paid support available. It would be
easy and not wasy to pick up and use. :)

Oops,
Tony

[Yetkin Degirmenci]

Hello Scott,

I filled up your request about pixie below but first of all I would like to share my experience about the CMS I bought 2 months ago.

I was get in line in 2005 because of the feauters of that CMS but I almost forgot then it's released
2009 (?!)which is odd but no worries, I go and buy one week after released date.
So It's cool and not work with IE 8 (?!)
I need to buy extra commercial support (?!) it's mean I can't get support which CMS I already paid.
same CMS has got googlegroups like this. but there is no life in there last 3 month only 20 message.
My 2 problem is not solved. 2 day ago I ask for updates. It's not happened even not answered yet.

This is the short story of my commercial CMS experiment.

I wonder while I'm busy whith pain in (you know) well known place...
pixie group is minimum 20 message a day sometimes even after midnight Scott you personall answer the question
you far 1 hour behind me so it's mean late for you too.
Never mind your personal effort plus pixie usergroup is a warm and helpfull place.
that place never include wise pant's answers.

My point is when you convert some services to commercial (which is fit for me) I bealive I can pay till it's work for me.
but please do not loose this sprit of usergroup and your passion about pixie.

What is it about Pixie you love?

- simplicty for clients (even for me lol)
- modular (awesome) (I can write my own modules whenever I want.
- easy setup
- usergroup
- owner passion and intrest


What is it about Pixie you hate/wish?
- tomany css files (hard to work with)(please do it in 1 or 2 css file (I'm realy bored to 8 tab in may notepad++)
- a.s.a.p (multi-lingual) content for need most of clients + still simple to edit is a must (for client)
- no a.s.a.p (some bridge for forum's)(it's a pain to write this I know but it's many people wish this to)
- in-house flash file insert support.
- custome data-fileds (a place in CMS which is allow me to easly create a CD-DB or Customer DB or some Products DB or MY portfolio I can
create my own portfolio fields If I need to expose more detail then our current portfolio module. I wish I can do it inside the CMS)


Which CMS GOLD! for me and I can totaly pay for it?(I'm searching this since 2005 and currently cant find this below )
- Work on LAMP
- Secure
- Simple for clients and me
- Multi-lingual
- Easy to implement my design
- Custom data fields (this is solve everything bealive me catalog to portfolio or hugde member area or custom profiles bla bla.)
- supporting everything from 1 base
- at least 1 bridge for 1 forum (even I'm surely pay that cms don't have this bridge)

Thanks for reading my long message.sorry about my grammer as you can see it's not native language for me ;)
Regards,
Yetkin Degirmenci

PS: Please no one answer this with (Joomla, drupal, wordpress Even Typo3 Because none-of-them all-in-one solution I'm realy bored to
spend my time to buy a gallery module from greece for a custom fields from Kazakhistan. While you try to follow all versions about all modules plus joomla version if you missed one version any of module installed on your system BOOM you hacked!)
Commercial module development give opportunity to develop everyone to make a commercial module so pixie goes like joomla.
I don't think this lovely cms need this ?














Scott yazmış:

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The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

[rm]

What is it about Pixie you love?

1) easy to install and start using
2) (relatively) easy to customize
3) easy to stylize

What is it about Pixie you hate?

1) don't really "hate" anything, but it can be hard to find the
specific place to make changes: this applies to both CSS as well as
code itself

And it is the one "hate" that I have that makes me say that making
Pixie better might just mean better documentation. Since I have been
using Pixie and looking at the forums, what type of questions have
most people had? Most of the questions, it seems to me, are easily
answered and entail a response to the effect that you can change so-
and-so value at such-and-such line in some file. I think that with
better documentation, those people with questions could find their own
answers. It would make customizing Pixie easier, allow people to make
their own tables, layout their own page structure, etc., - all folks
would need to know is where to make such changes. This would only make
a real difference for those 'advanced' users that want different
capabilities and can implement them in their own unique cases; the
bulk of Pixie users would still have the plain, simple Pixie that
attracted all these users in the first place.

As far as monetizing Pixie, perhaps there's a way of having an "app
store" where users could buy particular modules or blocks, etc., that
other users have developed. Anyone could make their own apps, and give
them away free, but the only way that they'd be certified as 100%
Pixie is to get them from toggle at some price. You could keep a
percentage of the cost whilst sharing the rest with the developer,
which would spur better development and more complete solutions. Those
better solutions would, in turn, make people more inclined to buy
those products.

[Tony]

Hi all,
Like the app store idea. Tried and tested approach. Maybe used to
offer modules only officially sanctioned by Scott or his team of
trusted web monkeys. :) Prevents code exploits that could potentially
lead to web site compromisation.
Flash for video and audio would be nice using this :
http://flowplayer.org/
(The licensed version is reasonably priced and the free version is
largely unrestricted. jQuery friendly.)
But with a great big warning that webmasters need to pay for patent
licensing (Expensive!) To stream any mpeg content from their site,
like h.264 or mp3. flv (Flash encoded video) Is OK and not patent
encumbered.
http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=11011&page=4&c=7
for reference.
It's like something I would maybe do as a module myself if I wanted to
build a small youtube like clone and bandwidth/storage space was
cheap.

On the topic of videos, Scott, maybe a screen cast demonstrating just
how simple and easy pixie is to install and use for the pixie homepage
will help to demonstrate why people should choose pixie as their cms.

Back to the topic, I think that you should make toggle more visible on
the pixie homepage with a nice easy to follow trail of breadcrumbs
that leads to your commercial web site services. Proposing that toggle
can cater for a wide range of services; so that people that want a
pixie site are made more aware that they can just contact you by email
and you can supply their need, hosting, setup, theme/branding and
support. All for a fee, of course.
Maybe even offer three types of basic service plan available to "Buy
now" for a flat fee, with optional extras displayed to choose from. It
would maybe attract people that try pixie, like it, don't know much
about it and would rather let a professional support them than try to
learn how to do all the hard work themselves. Visible prices and
services for those that want to outsource their website.

A paid e-commerce (Shopping card) module with blocks and plugins might
generate you some revenue.

Offering commercial services around an open source product is
certainly my key point here. It's how the big guys do it.

Thanks,
Tony

[Scott]

@tony @yetkin @rm
Thanks for your input on this.

@tony
codeigniter is probably one of the nicer frameworks out there at the
moment. I like the fact that it does not require a degree to get it
working! - I still lean towards the simple PHP framework though. With
frameworks like codeigniter they force the developer to work to a
convention. This is a good thing - but to learn those conventions (in
this case) mean learning the framework. For a lot of people that is to
much. I may not want to learn about routing and MVC - I just want to
throw together a module.

With a smaller framework like SPF - we get to impose our own
conventions. This way we can hopefully make those conventions easier
to learn and in turn make it easier for people to develop and improve
a app. I would like to think that the learning curve for writing a
module is Pixie is massively simpler than learning codeigniter.

silverstripe - I have heard they are doing very well. Turning in big
profits. I have not actually used the CMS. What is it like? I find it
odd because their website does not make a huge deal of paid for
services. They almost operate it like a web company that happens to
have a CMS. Most web companies have internal CMS systems. They must be
doing something special? I cannot see what that is.

@yetkin
Sorry to hear you had troubles with a paid for CMS. Which one did you
buy? I am not overly interested in making Pixie anything other than
Open Source. I believe in the model and I make use of so many great
projects that I have always wanted this to be a way of giving back.

I am interested in other revenue options and I am liking some of the
suggestions in this thread. I still have lots to think about :)

@rm
Like the app store idea - its a very popular model at the moment. With
the ability for others to profit from the project it should also
encourage others to develop code and themes. The infrastructure for
such model is fairly large - I need to think about it.

Scott

> encumbered.http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=11011&page=4&c=7

[Sam Collett]

How about an ActiveRecord type framework? i.e. abstract away the SQL
(so you don't write any). Something like http://www.phpactiverecord.org/

$post = new Post();
$post->title = 'My first blog post!!';
$post->author_id = 5;
$post->save();

Looks simple enough to use and is only a 100k download. Also support
SQLite as well as MySQL. Requires PHP 5.3 though.

--Sam

> ...
>
> read more »

[Tony]

On Dec 5, 2:23 pm, Scott <scotts...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ...
>
> read more »

Hi Scott,
You're obviously not sold on codeigniter and I'd argue that the
convention it wants you to follow is largely correct and helps to
avoid the pitfalls of the unknown. Until I found pixie, I was going to
write a simple cms using codeigniter or ruby on rails from scratch by
myself but for the meantime I'm not going to attempt such a large
undertaking. It would be a lot of work and pixie as it is now, suits
my needs perfectly. codeigniter is what I'd use but you are exactly
right, there is a learning curve there, even if it is quite a gentle
one IMO.

The thing is with silverstripe is that :
The developers are very active on their bugzilla : Things get fixed
fast.
They obviously have an awesome sales team that goes to tender and
smashes it with their presentations.
Word of mouth : They are known as THE people for businesses to go to
for a website in New Zealand.

So experience, reputation, support and skills are what that they bring
to the table and that's what will attribute to their success.
The same success is possible in the UK for Toggle but the market here
is very saturated with "Johnny come latelys" And "Mateys" That will
"Do you a website for £200, mate" And as you will no doubt know, a
business website for around £200 will be basically crap, probably be
something created by someone else released under the gpl, modified
only slightly, with very little substance and no support.
There are of course a whole plethora of exceptionally talented
designers and artists working in the UK so there are those people to
compete with along with this terrible habit that UK businesses seem to
be getting into, to outsource to India for IT projects to save money.
My guess is that the coding work is given to children that simply do
not have the experience it requires to produce good code or support
it.

I think more modules, plugins and themes for Pixie is the way to go
first. Apart from the votes, ImpressCMS has more modules and themes
than Pixie and I guess probably attributed most to it's win of the
most promising award over Pixie. Bridging that gap may make a big
difference.
Beating ImpressCMS next year is a goal right? ;)

Thanks,
Tony