Pinko tools
David Rogers
I have a "hard" product (meaning not software) and I want to provide a platform for folks to interact and provide feedback. What is the right web tool for this?
Is it simply a forum or are there new tools that facilitate this exchange more effectively? And if it is a forum, any feedback on what the best solution is that is out there (for my small business budget).
Thanks!
ericmm...@gmail.com
There is no perfect tool for developing community. Blogs can facilitate
it, so can forums. So can conferences, skypecasts, email discussion
lists, seminars, phone calls, happy hours, social networking, the list
goes on and on. Community is built through quality communication among
your community, which, as a pinko marketer you are a part of.
But even more important than the tools are the time, energy and
attitude that you bring to nurturing the community. If you genuinely
care about the community (as a whole and individuals!) and their love
of your product/service, then they'll care your company.
Strong relationships are the ultimate competitive advantage because
there is no shortcut to creating them. They take time, love, caring and
blood/sweat/tears. But I'll take them over patents any day of the week.
If you want to give us (the pinko community) more information about
your company, maybe we can help with more specific suggestions.
Eric
Marketingmonger.com
paul.f...@googlemail.com
I think a similar point may have been raised earlier that all Pinko
needs to be online and that it is only any good for online products or
software.
Pinko and Community is a philosphy whose principles can be promoted in
any line of business.
David, like eric, I say "bring it on" - let us all have a better idea
of what you do, your business, its goals etc., and we'll all chip in.
Alternatively, send me an email and I'll be glad to do what I can.
Cheers
Pal
paul.f...@googlemail.com
David Rogers
My company markets bamboo fly fishing rods. Typically--99.9% of the time in today's marketplace, a fly fishing rod is made of a graphite or carbon fiber material. However, between about 1880 and 1960, the majority rod was made of bamboo--split bamboo to be exact.
The maker splits a bamboo culm length-wise (of a particular variety called Tonkin that is grown in a 20,000 acre area in southern China), and then proceeds to plane the split pieces by hand into very exact (within .004-inch) 60-degree triangular shaped and tapered strips that are glued together in sixes to form a hexagonal rod--about 1/2-inch or less in diameter at the base and 1/8-inch or less at the tip. This is a long and labor-intensive process that yields a completed rod in about 50-75 hours. Hence the move to "plastic" materials that can be mass produced.
There is a certain nostalgic element to fishing a bamboo rod, but because of the labor involved, they usually sell today for US$1200 to US$3000 and there is very often a waiting list of up to 18 months from popular makers. My thinking (and the reason I started the company) is that nobody should have to pay that kind of money or wait for a rod (and it wasn't always like that--when bamboo was the norm, there were production shops that put these out by the millions in any and every grade for all fishermen--fly fishermen or otherwise).
So, over the last four years I have developed a relationship with a family in China that builds the rods at a rate that allows me to sell in the US$400 range and to keep lots of rods on hand for immediate delivery.
That's the business. I sell over the Internet and and via mail order direct to customers. I am toying with a deal where I work with fly fishing guides and outfitters to have them advocate the rods and get affiliate-like finders fees. I advertise in the right magazines. I do some email marketing. It is a very conventional business and I would like to figure out how to create a community. And I understand that I need an online and offline community.
My business goal is to "right-size" the business by selling about 1200 rods per year. (I am currently doing about 300 a year).
The things that I deal with include the following:
1. Made in China. Can be a big deal for some fly fishers ("USA, USA, USA"--oh brother! We do live in a global economy).
2. Shock factor of the price vs. competition. Many cannot believe I can offer a quality product at the price I do. But the rods are as well build as any available. I have a lot of happy fly fishermen.
3. A large interest in the 55-80 year old set (though this is just one segment) that is for the most part offline. I often get letters in the mail with interesting penmanship. These are people that actually fished bamboo at one time, not like me that wished I did.
4. Choosing a fly rod requires "feeling" the action. Selling over the Internet or mail order is kind of stupid. People really want to try before they buy.
5. It is a niche of a niche market. US, there are probably 4 to 5 million fly fishermen, maybe that many again in the rest of the world. Those interested in bamboo are probably 10-20% of this group.
6. Because bamboo has something of a mystic and is rare, getting rods into the hands of fly fishers often causes a stir.
7. I run the business part time out of my house. That means limited resources, time and focus. I am a "virtual" business with just me (and my wife and kids) as owner/chief bottle washer. I want to keep it like that. As you can see, I have "outsourced" manufacturing and continue to do so in areas of finance, marketing, etc.
That's the long-winded version of the business (I know, very unpinko). Bring it on, I am very open to suggestions and criticism.
The URL is www.split-bamboo.com (Company name is Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company).
Thanks again,
David
mrs deedop
Just a quick thought from a non-marketer: For me, a truly organic and
sustainable way to build community is to tell a compelling story. Story
draws people in, and if the story gives hints of more story to come, it
keeps people coming back for more.
That said, I think you've got potential for some great story in your
product. You mention you've developed a relationship with a family in
China who make the rods. As a potential community member, I would love to
hear about that family. See pictures. Read a travelogue of your trip to
set up your business. Not only could this be great reading, but it would
go a long way to alleviate assumptions some folks have about anything made
in China -- ie, that it's *all* crappy, poorly paid factory work.
Another place to explore story is with some of your old timer customers.
Grab one or two that you know personally and go for a fishing trip! Take
lots of pictures. Talk about old school fishing and blog it! The life
stories that come out during a day of fishing .... I can only imagine.
(Hah -- think "A River Runs Through It" Podcast style! :-))
I know this doesn't really touch on tools at all, but I hope it helps!
--robin
www.belly-timber.com
ericmm...@gmail.com
You've got some interesting challenges but also some great things going
for you.
First and foremost, you have a great product and a great story. Bamboo
has an interesting history which is a phenomenal tool for marketing. It
has built in drama and excitement and mystery, all you have to do it
let it out.
Second, you've got a healthy attitude towards organically building a
niche business. Refreshing and healthy. If you only sell 300-1,200
poles per year, you can literally build individual relationships with
people. Send them snail mail birthday cards, post their snail mail
letters onto your website, call them 30 days after the delivery of
their new pole to see how they like it and finally explain all the
stuff you do online to try and connect them with like-minded people.
Third, might I make a suggestion? Turn your satisfied customers into
evangelists. Ask them if they have friends that like to fly fish. If
so, loan them a free extra rod to share with a friend or two over the
course of 30-90 days (i.e. pay for shipping both ways). A test-drive
loaner program, if you will. Start small and see if you can't make it
work. Trust people to return the rods, your community won't let you
down.
You can't pitch the virtue of bamboo better than a personal friend
(with a spare rod) can.
Just an idea.
Eric
Marketer
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> Thanks for the offer of generating ideas. Hopefully I can keep this fairly short, but it does require some background. <br><br>My company markets bamboo fly fishing rods. Typically--99.9% of the time in today's marketplace, a fly fishing rod is made of a graphite or carbon fiber material. However, between about 1880 and 1960, the majority rod was made of bamboo--split bamboo to be exact.
> <br><br>The maker splits a bamboo culm length-wise (of a particular variety called Tonkin that is grown in a 20,000 acre area in southern China), and then proceeds to plane the split pieces by hand into very exact (within .004-inch) 60-degree triangular shaped and tapered strips that are glued together in sixes to form a hexagonal rod--about 1/2-inch or less in diameter at the base and 1/8-inch or less at the tip. This is a long and labor-intensive process that yields a completed rod in about 50-75 hours. Hence the move to "plastic" materials that can be mass produced.
> <br><br>There is a certain nostalgic element to fishing a bamboo rod, but because of the labor involved, they usually sell today for US$1200 to US$3000 and there is very often a waiting list of up to 18 months from popular makers. My thinking (and the reason I started the company) is that nobody should have to pay that kind of money or wait for a rod (and it wasn't always like that--when bamboo was the norm, there were production shops that put these out by the millions in any and every grade for all fishermen--fly fishermen or otherwise).
> <br><br>So, over the last four years I have developed a relationship with a family in China that builds the rods at a rate that allows me to sell in the US$400 range and to keep lots of rods on hand for immediate delivery.
> <br><br>That's the business. I sell over the Internet and and via mail order direct to customers. I am toying with a deal where I work with fly fishing guides and outfitters to have them advocate the rods and get affiliate-like finders fees. I advertise in the right magazines. I do some email marketing. It is a very conventional business and I would like to figure out how to create a community. And I understand that I need an online and offline community.
> <br><br>My business goal is to "right-size" the business by selling about 1200 rods per year. (I am currently doing about 300 a year).<br><br>The things that I deal with include the following:<br><br>1. Made in China. Can be a big deal for some fly fishers ("USA, USA, USA"--oh brother! We do live in a global economy).
> <br><br>2. Shock factor of the price vs. competition. Many cannot believe I can offer a quality product at the price I do. But the rods are as well build as any available. I have a lot of happy fly fishermen.<br><br>3. A large interest in the 55-80 year old set (though this is just one segment) that is for the most part offline. I often get letters in the mail with interesting penmanship. These are people that actually fished bamboo at one time, not like me that wished I did.
> <br><br>4. Choosing a fly rod requires "feeling" the action. Selling over the Internet or mail order is kind of stupid. People really want to try before they buy.<br><br>5. It is a niche of a niche market. US, there are probably 4 to 5 million fly fishermen, maybe that many again in the rest of the world. Those interested in bamboo are probably 10-20% of this group.
> <br><br>6. Because bamboo has something of a mystic and is rare, getting rods into the hands of fly fishers often causes a stir. <br><br>7. I run the business part time out of my house. That means limited resources, time and focus. I am a "virtual" business with just me (and my wife and kids) as owner/chief bottle washer. I want to keep it like that. As you can see, I have "outsourced" manufacturing and continue to do so in areas of finance, marketing, etc.
> <br><br>That's the long-winded version of the business (I know, very unpinko). Bring it on, I am very open to suggestions and criticism.<br><br>The URL is <a href="http://www.split-bamboo.com">www.split-bamboo.com</a> (Company name is Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company).
> <br><br>Thanks again,<br>
> <br>
> David<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/15/06, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:paul.f...@googlemail.com">paul.f...@googlemail.com</a></b> <<a href="mailto:paul.f...@googlemail.com">paul.f...@googlemail.com
> </a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>Couldn't agree more Eric.<br><br>I think a similar point may have been raised earlier that all Pinko
> <br>needs to be online and that it is only any good for online products or<br>software.<br><br>Pinko and Community is a philosphy whose principles can be promoted in<br>any line of business.<br><br>David, like eric, I say "bring it on" - let us all have a better idea
> <br>of what you do, your business, its goals etc., and we'll all chip in.<br><br>Alternatively, send me an email and I'll be glad to do what I can.<br><br>Cheers<br><br>Pal<br><br><br>
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Patrick Dodd
I grew up in McCall, a small mountain town in central Idaho.
McCall is a fisherman's paradise. I spent many days of my childhood
with my father, brother and close family friend fishing the many
streams and lakes around McCall. Ray, the family friend, and my father
were great fly fisherman , while my brother and I were simply bait fisherman. Its
not that we didn't aspire to become fly fisherman, its just that we did
not have the patience or dexterity as children to do much with a fly
rod other than make bird's nests out of the line after several casts.
When I turned 12, my father bought me my first fly rod. That was the day that I became a fly fisherman. Between the advice that I received from my father and from Ray, I became a pretty decent fisherman over the years. Fly fishing is rather easy to learn but difficult to master. Ray taught me how to tie my own flies and how to tell which hatch was on. Both Ray and my father taught me that there is much more to fly fishing than simply catching fish. There were a lot of things that they told in an off handed fashion that I didn't really understand until I was at the university. It was then that I realized that there are many life lessons that can be learned while casting a fly.
I basically gave up fishing when I went to grad school in Arizona. Its hard to be too interested in fishing when you have to drive long distances just to get to crappy trout fishing. However, I seemed to always make at least one trip back to Idaho per year and would always manage to get in a few days of fishing while I was there. When I went back in 1998 just before I moved to Europe, my father told me that Ray had cancer and didn't have more than 6-8 months to live.
Of course we all wanted to get one last fishing trip in with Ray. We ended up going to one of our favorite old haunts that we used to go to when my brother and I were just kids. It wasn't the best place to fish, but it was a short drive and it was easy for Ray to get in and out of the water there.
There we were on that fabulous fall day, all in our float tubes - my father, Ray, my brother and me. It was a beautiful site. We didn't catch many fish that day. In fact, I don't think I caught one, but it was the best day of fly fishing that I have ever had. It was the last day I would fish with my friend Ray.
I'm passionate about blogging and passionate about fly fishing. Drop me a line if you'd like to toss some more ideas around.
Cheers,
Patrick Dodd
paul.f...@googlemail.com
I'll get my thinkin cap on and see if there aren't a few ideas I can
come up with that won't duplicate what is here and also post your story
to the blog if that's ok?
Patrick Dodd
If you are referring to my story, please feel free to post it.
Patrick Dodd
David Rogers
Thanks again. I am not sure what you would put on the blog (since I think that what I have now is unpinko), but if you can figure out how to swizzle it, I'm all for it...
David
Deborah Schultz
Scott Brooks
-
I think we need to build your market. Get more people interested in flyfishing. Teach them how to do it. Help them find a fishing buddy to go out with and learn the sport. The biggest in hibitor to people trying flyfishing is the impression that it is hard to do. ITs not ....just takes practice.
So how do you give people the same experience that i had with my grandfather in the creeks and rivers of northern ontario?
How do you make the learning of the sport better? how can you foster that? Are there others out there who are trying to do the same thing? Can you work with them?
I am still thinking on the rest ......more to come ......hopefully
cheers
scott
David Rogers
Thanks all for the ideas. I hope that I am not imposing on the community...
David
Scott Brooks
place where people can teach me how to tie flies?
cheers
scott
Paul Fabretti
Rod buying ebook?
fishing holiday links?
Just 3 small ideas...ideas maching is wilting in the heat in the UK at
the moment!
More soon!
Pete Prodoehl
> what about a place where i can go to learn how to cast online ? or a
> place where people can teach me how to tie flies?
>
Paul Fabretti wrote:
> Fishing ebook?
> Rod buying ebook?
> fishing holiday links?
How about a videoblog!
Show people the rods and how to use them, how they cast, etc... Accept
submissions of people using the rods they've bought.
Pete
--
http://PayMeToBlog.com/
a bold experiment in blogging and advertising
Tara Hunt
T.
www.citizenagency.com)
blog: www.horsepigcow.com
phone: 415-694-1951
Scott Brooks
i think it would work
let people send in thier videos on their flys ......or tactics ......everyone wants to share fishing
cheers
scott
Samuel Rose
And, another idea I'll throw into the mix is that in addition to the a
blog or vlog, you might also attract and sustain an online community
with a wiki about bamboo rod fly fishing.
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> Flyfishers are crazy dedicated to this sport ....<br>i think it would work <br><br>let people send in thier videos on their flys ......or tactics ......everyone wants to share fishing <br><br>cheers <br><br>scott <br><br><div>
> <span class="gmail_quote">On 7/19/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Tara Hunt</b> <<a href="mailto:horse...@gmail.com">horse...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
> <div>How about a videoblog that is not only instructive, but funny. :) I'm addicted to Ask a Ninja and Ze Frank. <br><br>T.<br><br><div></div><div><span class="q"><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/19/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">
> Pete Prodoehl</b> <<a href="mailto:ras...@gmail.com" title="mailto:ras...@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
> ras...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></span></div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"></blockquote></div><div><span class="q">
> <br>Scott Brooks wrote:<br>> what about a place where i can go to learn how to cast online ? or a
> <br>> place where people can teach me how to tie flies?<br>><br><br>Paul Fabretti wrote:<br> > Fishing ebook?<br> > Rod buying ebook?<br> > fishing holiday links?<br><br><br>How about a videoblog!<br><br>Show people the rods and how to use them, how they cast, etc... Accept
> <br>submissions of people using the rods they've bought.<br><br><br>Pete<br><br>--<br><a href="http://PayMeToBlog.com/" title="http://PayMeToBlog.com/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
> http://PayMeToBlog.com/</a><br>a bold experiment in blogging and advertising<br><br><br><br></span></div><div><a href="http://www.citizenagency.com" title="http://www.citizenagency.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
> www.citizenagency.com</a>)<br>blog: <a href="http://www.horsepigcow.com" title="http://www.horsepigcow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">www.horsepigcow.com</a><br>phone: 415-694-1951
> </div><div><span class="q"><br>
> <br>
> </span></div><div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
>
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Beth Kanter
Tara Hunt
I recommend some Pinkos invade this workshop. ;)
T.
http://thataway.org/conference/sessions/brainjam.php
--
tara 'miss rogue' hunt
agent provocateur
Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com)
blog: www.horsepigcow.com
phone: 415-694-1951