Pinko Monetization
Christopher St John
the "monetizing social networks" talk at Bar Camp NYC 2[1],
a recent Guy Kawasaki blog entry[2] on a particular "social
portal", and the upcoming soft-launch of my own small
contribution to the ever-growing list of ultra-niche
sites[3].
My problem is this: I want to make money off a site that is to
be largely made up of user generated content, but the path to
success looks to be paved with slime-covered stepping-stones.
A couple months ago there was the start of a similar
discussion[4], but it didn't look like any real conclusions
were reached.
Right now I'm thinking about a model where contributors
share the content on a non-exclusive basis (which isn't
unusual) but I'm also thinking that contributors should be
able to pull their content at any time. That's in contrast
to the "perpetual irrevocable royalty free worldwide"
wording that seems to be standard. It's the kind of thing
I know I would appreciate personally.
Taking it to a logical extreme, site visitors should
presumably be able to take their attention streams back as
well. Votes, comments, rankings, etc would belong to the
users.
I'm thinking of it as the "Take it all back" button.
On the other hand, it's kind of a pain on the technical
front, and it makes reusing the content a lot harder. It
also discourages the use of Creative Commons licenses. And,
most importantly, I don't know if anybody really cares that
much. (The success of other sites in monetizing user's free
labor argues that I'm making too much of the issue). Oh,
and it might be silly. At this point, I can't tell :-)
Any thoughts/references? I really don't have a coherent
philosophy worked out and would appreciate feedback.
-cks
[1] http://barcamp.org/BarCampNYC2Sessions (no writeup yet,
I'll try to add one later, it was a great session)
[2] http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2006/10/reality_check_f.html
, the discussion thread demonstrates just how tricky it can
be not to come off looking pretty slimy.
[3] http://artofsystems.blogspot.com/search/label/daytripr
[4] http://groups-beta.google.com/group/pinkomarketing/msg/2bad59a516492e7c
--
Christopher St. John
http://artofsystems.blogspot.com
Citizen Rogue
Ah...yes...this is a discussion that is coming up more and more often
these days. Even we at Citizen Agency grapple with charging for our
work with startups in connecting with community. Wouldn't it be nice
if housing, food, health care and other basics were free and we could
just do stuff because we love it?
The reality is that the open source movement has to start rethinking
it's own business model if it wants to sustain. The whole, "Work for
Microsoft during the week, code for open source on the weekend" model
sux. Why couldn't it be the other way around? (attributed quote to
factoryjoe) We should all be able to make a living doing good stuff
and then spend our free time trying to change the big
corporations...or whatever way.
I like that you opened this discussion. I would start by giving the
following tips:
1. Be very honest and clear about your intentions
2. It's okay to make money...how much and how you go about it should
be transparent. If you plan to be a multi-billionaire off of everyone
else's work, you may come off slimy. If you make a decent living and
reward those that help you get there, I think people will be cool with
it.
3. Allow others to profit from the work you are doing - revenue
sharing, rewards and white label versions all would contribute to
this.
4. Spend your money wisely - give back to your community. Don't go out
and spend millions on billboards, throw a free event for your fans.
Send schwag to your supporters. Put money back into making a better
product. Make stuff free, have contests or give reductions as a reward
when you do well.
5. Allow people to take their data with them. Don't say, "All your
data belong to us." Allow for people to totally delete or export their
account information at any time. This way, if they think you are being
slimy, they have a way to leave. Guarantee that you won't keep or
cache that data in anyway.
There are just a few...other Pinkos?
Tara
--
tara 'miss rogue' hunt
agent provocateur
Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com)
blog: www.horsepigcow.com
phone: 415-694-1951
Eric Skiff
Why is it that I not only pay flickr $25 a year, but that I'm proud of that fact? Why do I recommend their service to folks and encourage friends to pay up when they become 'heavy users' as well? When you break it down, Flickr is, essentially, a niche social network, complete with profiles, friends, contacts, intrasite messaging, etc. Their niche is photographers, and they've made that niche the focus and purpose of their network in a very powerful way. I think that's an important bit, and while obvious, there's a lot of niche social sites which are social first and niche second. Embrace your niche and make it your focus. The rest is behind-the-scenes community building magic.
Tara's email reads like a checklist of things that flickr is getting right. I've never thought of them as slimy or moneygrubbing. They provide a very tangible service, and I'm more than happy to part with my $2 a month for it. The fact that they're priced reasonably (and are also thankfully light on the ads) lends to that feeling as well.
I'd also add to the list the idea of being a good neighbor to other services as one of the main reasons I hold flickr in high regard. They make their API available to third parties, and not only allow but advocate for innovative new uses of their product. I can think of a list of companies that would have cried foul when someone else beat them to the monetization punch by printing photos from their site, yet flickr featured that exact use on the top lef tof their site.
I'm sure I'll have more thoughts on this, but we're getting on a plane in a few moments, so I'll keep it short :) Don't be afraid to monetize (and to think about how to do that) early. Money doesn't make you, or your service evil. It's all about providing value. If you're giving something away that people think has worth, they won't mind helping to keep that service around... and if you do it right, they'll be happy to.
-Eric
Eric Skiff
Nonprofit Web & Database Admin, Consultant,
Podcaster, Pinko Marketer
718-809-8692
Blog : http://GlitchNYC.com
Podcast : http://AlternativeMusicShow.com
Puppets!: http://FeltUpTV.com
Christopher St John
to put theory into practice. I have until Friday...
> Citizen Rogue wrote:
>
> 1. Be very honest and clear about your intentions
>
> 3. Allow others to profit from the work you are doing - revenue
> sharing, rewards ...
>
> 5. Allow people to take their data with them. ...
>
I excerpted the items above because they have something in
common: they require a very explicit explanation of everyone's
rights and responsibilities. In other words, some well crafted
legalese that I'm not qualified to write.
As I see it, I've got a couple of options:
a) Require all posted content (including comments) be Creative
Commons licensed. That solves most of the legal issues, but
doesn't really address the extra stuff (like promising that you can
take your content back)
b) Hire a lawyer to write this stuff up. Not rocket science, but
potentially expensive, especially since I suspect I'd need
to do quite a bit of background explaining. If I end up doing this,
I'd like to find a "Pinko Lawyer", and I'd want to share whatever
we came up with. (Writing legal docs to be shared is, I understand,
tricky)
c) Find some pre-existing legal framework beyond the standard
CC stuff. Has anyone already done (b)? I need to research more.
So, I suspect I'll do (a) for the launch this week, simply because
there isn't time for anything else, then maybe have a "statement
of principles" that could be used as fodder for (b) or (c).
Finally, is this an appropriate topic? Getting into the nitty
gritty of the details, I mean. It's not really marketing per se,
but it seems like Pinko Marketing is a much more holistic
type of endeavor. This is sort of the "walking the walk" half,
but maybe there is a better venue.
-cks
Samuel Rose
I don't know exactly what type of info/knowledge/data your users might
have the option to "take back".
I think your game plan for your short launch window is good,
considering you have few other options.
One model that exists is http://attentiontrust.org/ and
http://attentiontrust.org/services
This non-profit organization and community may be willing to help you
apply their technology and principles to your particular circumstances.
And, the Creative Commons community may also be willing to help you
iron out how Attention Trust might work in conjunction with different
CC schemes.
Both Attention trust and Creative Commons have engaged communities of
people who are interested in seeing their principles applied, (and so
does Pinko Marketing:))
Although, it may not be readily easy for you to use the technology that
Attention Trust has created. But then again, it may turn out that only
small changes are needed to incorporate Attention Trust technologies. I
have no idea what your system is, or how it works, so I cannot say for
certain, of course.
At the least, you may be able to borrow from Attention Trust's concepts
and methods, and incorporate that into your own technologies.
However, you'll be better off in the long run if you create a
realtionship with Attention Trust, and Creative Commons, and have them
share knowledge and best practices with you. They will then be able to
point to you as another example of a real world application of their
tools/techniques/systems (and this will promote your service to people
who care about Attention Trust/user control/Open license).
Hope that helps!
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
AIM: Str9960
Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
skype: samuelrose
email: samue...@gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com
http://socialsynergy.typepad.com
http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/SocialSynergy/HomePage
Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
http://www.webassistant.com
http://www.enterprise4u.com
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
http://www.cooperationcommons.com/cooperation-commons
http://smartmobs.com
http://humergence.typepad.com
http://audience2.org
On Oct 11, 11:18 am, "Christopher St John" <ckstj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Tara and Eric! I agree in theory, but now it's time
> to put theory into practice. I have until Friday...
>
> > Citizen Rogue wrote:
>
> > 1. Be very honest and clear about your intentions
>
> > 3. Allow others to profit from the work you are doing - revenue
> > sharing, rewards ...
>
> > 5. Allow people to take their data with them. ...I excerpted the items above because they have something in
Beth Kanter
project (http://beth.typepad.com/beths_blog/2006/10/screencast_of_t_1.html)
is pretty amazing in how they are getting the community to generate the
content. I did an interview on YouTube with Steve Cliff, the guy behind it
all, and he shares six tips for community tagging projects
(http://beth.typepad.com/beths_blog/2006/10/my_youtube_inte.html)
Scott Brooks
I am not sure what pinko is anymore .....everyone always prefaces things in this forum with 'iam not usre if this is pinko but , "
I think it is pretty cool .....the way i look at it anything that helps open the electoral eyes of my american cousins .....please do .....you guys have to take the blinders off and pay attention.
cheers
scott brooks
conceptshare.com
ta...@citizenagency.com
Yes, Beth...whatever it is, it sure is awesome. You should get him in
touch with the people doing RootsCamp.
As for what is Pinko...perhaps the simplest way to put it is that it's
anywhere the customer or community members benefit the most.
I don't usually solicit posts on the list, but I wrote one the other
day where I think I finally realized what it's all about.
http:/www.citizenagency.com/blog/2006/10/17/balancing-the-scales/
I think I finally realized my core purpose at CA...tipping the scales
in the other direction and make my clients' clients number one
priority.
T.
--
tara 'miss rogue' hunt
agent provocateur
Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com)
blog: www.horsepigcow.com
phone: 415-694-1951
fax: 415-727-5335