Pinko Marketing and Ethics
mtam...@gmail.com
I am a big advocate of pinko marketing and the cluetrain manifesto. I
have been reading the posts for awhile now, but this is my first time
participating. My apologies if I seem flighty.
I just started a new job a few weeks ago, at a company who does little
to no marketing. We do recruiting for start-ups, particularily
software companies.
My question is, does ethics play a role in pinko marketing? I came
across this article today and was deeply disturbed about it. In short,
a marketing/advertising company is using software to datamine MySpace
and send automatic emails. I would never think to do this and don't
think it is okay with pinko. However, it got me thinking...what should
I be consious of? Have any of you come across anything that you
thought was unethical and you changed your mind?
http://news.com.com/2100-1038_3-6070533.html?part=rss&tag=6070533&subj=news
Cheers,
michelle
Eric Skiff
I'm constantly talking with people (smart, cluetrain aware people) about where the lines between conversation, self promotion, and spam are, and how comfortable they are with crossing them. Harvesting emails and sending spam is bottom of the barrel type stuff, but what about automatically adding friends to your myspace profile? Each of them gets a request, which then makes an impression and very likely leads them to check out your product.
Spammy? You bet your butt. Effective? Unfortunately so. You can target exactly who you want to add as friends, so you know you're getting people who might be interested in your product/band/project/org. Every major indie band I know is doing this using "myspace friend adders". There's lots of tools on the market, and I've even written an open source one that's gotten pretty popular. The strange thing is that myspace seems to turn a blind eye to this behavior, perhaps even encouraging it, since it's been one of the driving forces behind "myspace music" becoming a huge success. Essentially, myspace lets bands advertise for free to their members.
I would say that this practice isn't particularly pinko, but it is happening in a big way right now, and with some people you might not expect.
Now here's the kicker. In my experiment, I found that nearly 90% of all the friend request I made were actually accepted. Many of them wrote to thank me for the add. Many others were bands themselves, and sent me music to include on my podcast. I got 2 confused emails and 0 angry ones out of about 3200 friend request. It was a far higher return than I expected, and the attitued of the people I've contacted has been much more positive than I imagined. It seems that most people get onto myspace, find old friends (and crushes, and their highschool arch nemesis) and then are pretty stumped about what to do there. They're so bored, the don't seem to mind a little friendly marketing.
I won't say that I'm convinced it's ethical, but it's certainly a shade of grey for me. I'd be interested in other opinions.
-Eric
http://feltuptv.com - Puppet Sketch Comedy!
http://alternativemusic.thepodcastnetwork.com - The Alternative Music Show
Tara Hunt
...on that note...I haven't ever said that spam and other traditional outgoing stuff isn't effective. It really can be. As Eric noted, many people actually like it. Hell, there are even people that buy stuff through spam emails. That's why they do it. I also believe that these things contribute to people's distrust of business and marketing and do nothing for building relationships - even on MySpace.
But that's just my 2 cents.
Michelle, your company recruits? Go to BarCamp and hang out sometime. Read blogs of technical people. Write your own. Find out what's happening in the tech communities around you. You'll find all of the go-getters are out and about on the scene. You'll build a much tighter reputation that way than by sending anonymous emails out to anonymous people.
T.
tara 'miss rogue' hunt
www.horsepigcow.com
ericmm...@gmail.com
ones in response to my principles - some of which were original to me
and some of which were from earlier emails in the thread) and Tara's
below in one fell swoop.
----
Tara, maybe you can clear something up for me.
How is you sending an email to a person who writes a technical blog not
an outgoing message?
How is writing a blog yourself not an outgoing message?
How is going to barcamp and having a conversation not an outgoing
message?
It would seem to me that the key is not whether it's incoming or
outgoing or whether it's email or PPC or pr or podcast.
The key (at least to me) is that it's about the message, approach,
conversation and, most importantly, the relationship.
Build the relationship on your company's end via a method/approach that
the individual it is with appreciates and gets value from.
Plus (and this is very pinko, IMHO) build a company approach and
systems that help your customers easily build and really benefit the
relationship on their end with you (the company) and with their peers
(your other customers).
Analysis is important because time/money/energy is a scarce resource.
If someone presents two "pinko" marketing methods/tools to me and one
is twice as effective as the other, then I'm going to choose the more
effective one. Analysis is not evil. It's smart.
Eric
mtam...@gmail.com
focused on developing a good level of trust, a relationship with our
recruits and clients. So, I don't really think the spam
email/networking would work - although I can see how and why it is
successful for new musicians and the like. Because trust is so
important to us, ethical marketing is very important to me (it would be
anyway). I want to be aware of any ethical issues that may come up
with any pinko marketing.
Tara - yup, my company recruits for emerging software companies. I do
hope to make it out to some of BarCampTdot this weekend (yikes! don't
have anything to contribute...been thinking about it!) to get to know
the community.
michelle
Tara Hunt
Being at barcamp, READING (I didn't say dropping emails randomly, I said read the blogs), blogging...these aren't outgoing messages, they are participatory actions. If you see them as outgoing, that's too bad. When you see yourself as part of the community you serve, you aren't talking TO them, you are talking with them.
Yes...the key is about the relationship. And building company "that help your customers easily build and really benefit the relationship on their end with you (the company) and with their peers (your other customers)." is very pinko.
Choosing between two 'marketing methods' is smart. But if the one you choose (because of efficacy) is evil, then it is evil...from a pinko perspective.
Pinko is about action, but it isn't about achieving results right away because we want to be instantly seen and heard, etc. It's about organically growing trust and community and building a product that helps others kick ass. Most of these 'more effective' methods actually damage that organic growth. They are push and pull - not flow.
Tara
ericmm...@gmail.com
Ok, so if I attempt to summarize our spirited and fun debate, here's
the result:
-----
Pinko marketing is all about relationships.
Relationships are all about communication.
Pinko, unlike traditional marketing, does not regard relationships as
disposable, one-directional things and adjusts its communication
strategy accordingly.
Whether a method of communication is "pinko" may be intrepreted
differently by different people. To you, writing a blog is a
"participatory action". To me, it's an outgoing message. But the above
points are what are key.
-----
Let me know your thoughts.
Eric
Tara Hunt
Now THAT should go on the wiki.
T.
On 5/10/06, ericmm...@gmail.com <ericmm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
mtam...@gmail.com
it if in doubt.
That actually also really helps me determine if my marketing actions
are trying to be ethical or not. Is what I am doing encouraging
communication. Do they know I care about them, what they think, what
they do.
michelle
in...@innertee.com
is all about meaningful relationships.
What is going on w/myspace is still about relationships they just
aren't very meaningful or real.
Miles
Deborah Schultz
Deborah Schultz
MIles - thanks for pointing out the word meaningful - I think we were
all taking that for granted.
Deborah Schultz
deborah...@gmail.com
www.deborahschultz.com
917-848-1016