Fading interest?

[Jeremy Kahn]

Hi everyone, just checking in to see if anyone has been working on Pine lately.  There hasn't been any activity in the Google Group or the Github repo save for my own, and I'm just wondering if anyone was still interested in working on Pine with me.

[Alex Wilson]

I've had a busy few weeks, but I will try to get back into it. I'll continue work on the client node app and perhaps try to formalize the API definitions I came up with before.

[Jeremy Kahn]

Awesome.  I don't mean to push anyone (it's all voluntary, of course), I'm just trying to get a read on things.  Thanks for the update!

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Alex Wilson <arex...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've had a busy few weeks, but I will try to get back into it. I'll continue work on the client node app and perhaps try to formalize the API definitions I came up with before.

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Jeremy Kahn

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https://github.com/jeremyckahn

@jeremyckahn

[Scott Elcomb]

I'm in much the same boat as Alex. It's been crazy busy lately. Unfortunately I just wasn't able to get around to a talk proposal for FSOSS 2012.  Assuming the world doesn't end in 3 months, we should be in good shape for next year!

That said I've been trying to come to grips with some of the challenges we're facing.

On the hardware front the Pi is a little under-powered for the projects goals. Not impossible to achieve but it will certainly be a challenge. One major issue that's driving me batty is the lack of hardware acceleration for Chrome. I haven't seen any further posts on this from hexxeh - who's hopefully still working on it.

I've been reading up on some alternatives to the Pias well, namely the MK802 and UG802. Both look like capable platforms however they cost 2-3 times as much as the Pi and are closing in on the Ouya's price point but without all it's extras.

This leads to the next issue, the OS. There was an announcement to the effect that Android 4 runs on the Pi and that an official build is in the works. Chrome is already hardware accelerated in Android 4 which would be a huge win. Customizing the OS however would not be nearly as easy and I don't even want to speculate on getting Node.is or Mongo running on it.

Anyway I'll probably be tied up through next week. Following that... more progress! :-D

Best,
- Scott

[Jarrod Overson]

I just found this project and am poking through the source, so am curious to its current state (made more curious by this thread).

Has anyone given thought to this as a development platform if/when the Ouya is made reality?

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Jarrod Overson

[Jeremy Kahn]

Scott:  I understand about the workload - it's tough.  But I'm glad you're still here for us. :)

I've been saying for a while that I am not married to Raspberry Pi.  There are just a number of advantages to making it work for us, mainly the strength of its community.  If we can conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that it is not a capable gaming device, we should look elsewhere.  I don't think we're quite there yet -  if anything, I want to get my hands on some real hardware (I'm still waiting for it to ship...) and try some games on it.

We should also consider forking Firefox OS.  Granted, that changes this project quite a bit, but they've already got WebGL running on the Raspberry Pi, which is a pivotal aspect of Pine.  In any case, it's all Linux, so getting a workable stack (Node/Mongo) is within the realm of possibilities.

I know Raspbian and Chromium are looking bleak at the moment, but I'm not ready to give up on them yet.  Granted, you have more intimate technical knowledge to base that decision on, but those are my thoughts.

Jarrod:  Hello!  Welcome to out little community.  Pine has several components: A Linux OS optimized for running Chromium, a web app for managing the non-game user environment, and an ecosystem for distributing games and facilitating multiplayer gaming and competition.  Scott has made great progress for laying the groundwork for the OS, I am working on the myriad of UI bits for the web app (currently focusing on a gamepad-friendly virtual keyboard), and Alex is working out the requirements for the multiplayer API.  We have a status page here, but I need to get better at keeping it updated. =/

Regarding your question, we aren't really trying to compete with OUYA.  A big focus of this project is open source and educational gaming, whereas OUYA is pursuing the mainstream market.  Although our focus may shift in a mainstream direction, that decision is a long ways off.  Pine's technical stack is a little more approachable than Android, and that should make it easier for developers to get started with it.

I'm happy to field any questions you have about Pine.

[Scott Elcomb]

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:21 AM, Jeremy Kahn <jerem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Scott: I understand about the workload - it's tough. But I'm glad you're
> still here for us. :)

Not going anywhere. This is a long-term project for me :)

Still getting killed for time though; it'll be Thanksgiving for us in
Canada in a couple days so I'm not likely to get much done this
weekend outside of family (and twitter ;) Next week's packed solid
too but after that I should be able to try turbo mode and update
auto-pine for it.

I'm working on a guest blog for <http://www.softwarehamilton.com/> -
my first will be a light-hearted Thanksgiving post about DIY #gamedev.
Needless to say, Pine will be mentioned. ;-)

> I've been saying for a while that I am not married to Raspberry Pi. There
> are just a number of advantages to making it work for us, mainly the
> strength of its community. If we can conclude beyond a reasonable doubt
> that it is not a capable gaming device, we should look elsewhere. I don't
> think we're quite there yet - if anything, I want to get my hands on some
> real hardware (I'm still waiting for it to ship...) and try some games on
> it.

Agree. BTW, I can ship you a Pi if you'd like, I've got an extra.

> We should also consider forking Firefox OS. Granted, that changes this
> project quite a bit, but they've already got WebGL running on the Raspberry
> Pi, which is a pivotal aspect of Pine. In any case, it's all Linux, so
> getting a workable stack (Node/Mongo) is within the realm of possibilities.

Fast WebGL would be very nice indeed. :-)

> I know Raspbian and Chromium are looking bleak at the moment, but I'm not
> ready to give up on them yet. Granted, you have more intimate technical
> knowledge to base that decision on, but those are my thoughts.

Well I'm not quite ready to give up on them - as a primarily
Debian/Ubuntu user I rather like Raspbian. We could work around the
MongoDB issue but hardware acceleration is critical to user
experience. I'll try to strike up some conversation with @hexxeh on
twitter and see where it goes.

--
Scott Elcomb
@psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
http://www.pirateparty.ca/

[Jeremy Kahn]

Thanks for offering to share your extra hardware, but mine is supposed to arrive this month.  I'll start hounding the distributor if I don't from them soon.

I'm glad you're still on board, and that you're in it for the long haul!  I am too.  I'm juggling other open source projects as well, but hopefully they can coalesce and benefit each other in time.

It would be very cool if we could coax Hexxeh into working more of his magic on Chrome-on-Raspbian. I wonder if he accepts bribes? ;-) Definitely let us know when your blog post is up, I'd love to read it!

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