i hate gradual typing

[Raoul Duke]

because Other People will fail to type things that really ought to be. 

but (1) for wide adoption, it is probably a better approach than strict static typing even with inference. (and not all inference dx are equal.)

and (b) escape opt-out can sometimes be necessary, especially when the types get at all complicated and errors abound and syntax is heck and throw up one's hands and drop the types there just in order to make progress. because the type system is bad dx ie no interactive debugger. (sure llms can help save us now, at least.)

i'm begrudgingly a typescript fan. worst excepting all others kind of a thing. 

[David Barbour]

Gradual typing is greatly improved by extensibility or the ability to easily 'wrap' a module with type info. That mostly resolves the 'other people' problem. Good type inference can also mitigate. 

I would like better support for debugging and visualization of compile-time analysis. 

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[Raoul Duke]

While it might theoretically be possible, the reality of it is that is sucks a lot to have to attempt to fix up the missing types. (eg sometimes the type turns out to itself be a big ball of mud. if you can even figure out at all what it ought to be. multiplied by however many rando things aren't typed.)

[David Barbour]

Ask an AI to fix up the types, then. So long as it's in your court, it's quite feasible these days.

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[Raoul Duke]

yeah

...but what if due to the way the code is, the only reasonable type is something akin to void*? 

like, the code might suck because it wasn't done with a typed mindset in the first place. 

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