PIDP-11

[AB]

Hi Oscar- any good news regarding the PiDP-11?  I need to do some more soldering!!!

cheers
Andy B

PS sign me up for your "early adopters" programme :-)

[Dylan McNamee]

+1

[edit: I believe we have our first sighting, at the Vintage Computer Fest in Berlin]

[Doug Kennedy]

When I was a young child in the early 80s, I picked up a PDP-8 programming manual that was being discarded.  I read that thing cover to cover, and it was my introduction to assembly language programming.  My brother and I would scour computer magazines, looking at vendors of used PDP-8 hardware, configuring systems that we never had money to order (just as well, as we never considered how we would fit it into our bedroom...) So you can say the PDP-8 was one of my "first computers", albeit one I never had!

 The college we lived by had a PDP-11/70 that we occasionally got to play with.  It was pretty obsolete, even then.  I begged them to let me have it when they finally scrapped it, to no avail.  That's just as well too, I don't think I could have gotten three-phase power wired to our house either.

Anyways, that's why I'm super excited to hear of this project!  With a PiDP-8/i and a PiDP-11/70 I can finally realize my childhood fantasies of flipping switches to enter a bootloader and running OS/8 and RSTS/E!

Thanks to Oscar for making  my dreams come true :)

[AB]

Cool to see one in real life in Dylan's picture... very exciting... (no pressure, Oscar :-))

[Oscar Vermeulen]

On 5 October 2016 at 18:38, AB <lordha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Cool to see one in real life in Dylan's picture... very exciting... (no pressure, Oscar :-))

Oh, I've got plenty pressure - the garage has been full of PiDP-11 switches since last month:




Given the very long turnaround time, I was determined to make sure I had them in time. But producing the case takes a bit longer. I hope to have this as a prototype in two weeks' time:

And then it's time to risk it all on an injection mold. Given the cost of making a mold, I've got one shot at it only... and as I've figured out by now, many things can go wrong with injection molding. I found some professional help though, a local specialist company took pity on me and will help me to avoid doom. Hopefully.

So yes. Pressure. But It Has To Be Done :)

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[AB]

those switches are great colours.... one has to admire the whole style thing Digital had going on back then :-)

[Obsolescence]

By the way, on that photo - did you see the PDP-6 replica next to my stuff?


Angelo in Berlin has written an intriguing PDP-6 emulator. Taking a whole different approach: a C program simulates all the electrical signals to construct a PDP-6. That's an approach very different from traditional emulators, and rather close to how you'd do it with an FPGA.

https://github.com/aap/pdp6

 He hopes to marry that simulator and his (as of yet unconnected) front panel soonish. Normally, it would be a slight problem that no software remains for the 6. But Angelo already wrote an assembler and Forth for it, and has an incomplete listing of at least one operating system... you really get to meet impressive people in the world of DEC.


If anyone knows of a source of PDP-6 software, he sure would like to know!

Regards,

Oscar.

[Obsolescence]

On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 3:07:43 AM UTC+2, AB wrote:

those switches are great colours.... one has to admire the whole style thing Digital had going on back then :-)

I'm very happy with the colours by now. They are practically indistinguishable from the originals. A good thing, because the prototype PiDP-11 was sat next to a real 11/70 front panel.

But colour matching the groovy 70s designs from DEC has taken a silly amount of time. Especially because the manufacturer of the acrylic panels does not have properly calibrated printers, or paint machines, or whatever it is. So I had to go through multiple rounds of tests to get the wrong colour code which then turns out to be right one for them. And tell them *this* machine is to be used in the future...

Fortunately, the switch manufacturer got it right in one test. Very professional people (Daier Electron, recommended in every way if you ever want custom switches). They even got a third-party plastics colour firm in to nail the colours.

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[AB]

PDP6.... OH... PLEASE.... I NEED ONE!!!!

[AB]

we also need some nice curvy 70s chairs etc.  And no more of this "data center" nonsense - - it's a "computer room" !!

[Obsolescence]

In my sillier moments (many of those) I think of remaking a VT-05 terminal. Which clearly, from a cosmetic perspective, is the high point of DEC design.

The reason for thinking about it is more practical, though: the VT-05 case is very simple. With a vacuformed upper and lower shell (which will not cost the world) and a bit of darkened acrylic you pretty much have the case. And as the CRT sits behind the acrylic, it could be replaced by either a real CRT or (ahem) a cheap tablet screen running "cool-retro-term" for CRT emulation, emulating any terminal standard you want. The difference between CRT and flat screen would not be very noticeable behind the acrylic, that's what makes the VT-05 a good replica candidate.

You could make the whole thing for <$150 in parts, maybe much less. Except the keyboard, that'll either be something nasty, standard, USB. Or a custom keyboard with solder-yourself Cherry switches for a few dozen $ in parts extra.

I should slip out of the silly moment again... but it is tempting. Anyone with vacuforming know-how could do it (anyone interested?).

Regards,

Oscar.

[Jens Andree]

I've not been active here for a while so perhaps this has already been addressed?

Is there a list where we can queue up for a PDP-11 kit? A binding list?

Heck, I can even pay today just to ensure I get a kit when it's available...

Many thanks in advance!

/Jens

[AB]

Hi Jens - if there was a queue to get in I would be there!!!

In the meantime I keep bugging Oscar regularly in the forums in the hope that he remembers my name come "PidP11 Day" :-)

Andy

[Chris Smith]

As far as I can tell from the switches, the photos -- and the early circuit board -- there is one white switch in the middle right.

On the board, it is labelled "TEST". Is this original? Or was it a dummy block on the original DEC machine? And ... what will this do on the PiDP-11?

... Chris

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 9:24:38 PM UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

[Paul Birkel]

Lamp test “IRL”.  LED test :->?

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[Obsolescence]

On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 6:22:55 PM UTC+2, Paul Birkel wrote:

Lamp test “IRL”.  LED test :->?

Correct - it is a switch, not just a spacer. I'll probably use it not just for Lamp Test but also for special functions, like the PiDP-8 does with the Sing_Step switch.

Meanwhile, a 3D printed test of the case came in. Photos taken in bad light with a bad camera, which actually help to hide the many imperfections.
But - it looks like I wanted! Yay! A right proper baby 11!

It was a great moment when all the parts I had been working on over the past ten months came together and fitted.

 

Regards,

Oscar.

[AB]

Looks gorgeous!  And is that a key I see?

[Remy van Elst]

This is so awesome! Well done, amazing :D! Please, time to open up the order queue!

Op woensdag 12 oktober 2016 20:43:04 UTC+2 schreef Obsolescence:

[Obsolescence]

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 9:07:28 PM UTC+2, AB wrote:

Looks gorgeous!  And is that a key I see?

't Is! A $2 affair from China, but it does what it needs to do. One issue that will remain is, you can't just switch off a Raspberry Pi. So the keyswitch will either be under software control, or as a real power switch with User Beware warning. But then, that's perhaps why it has a key...

[Obsolescence]

Remy,

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 9:12:30 PM UTC+2, Remy van Elst wrote:

This is so awesome! Well done, amazing :D! Please, time to open up the order queue!

Thanks! I will, in November. At the moment I've got very little time but November should be OK. It will take a good two months at least before the injection mold parts come in. Maybe 3 months if I am unlucky, first thing now is to wrap up the CAD for the mold maker. 3D printing a case turned out to be simple, injection molding not so much... it scares me to be honest. But... no way out.

Anyway, the case needs a revision. Because right now, if you toggle a switch, the case falls over. Maybe the back panel needs to contain a brick :)

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Chris Smith]

Given that the original panel was on a box nearly a metre deep and weighing a LOT - this would not be surprising.

What are considering for a case revision? The only one that would sort of make sense to resolve this would be to tip the whole case back at an angle, so that downward force on the switches goes through solid case bottom, not straight down in front of the case edge.

But - the brick does not sound like that bad an idea. Or just put holes in the back for mounting heavy nuts and bolts, which the end purchaser supplies so that it does not run up the shipping cost!

[sunnyboy010101]

First thing that comes to my mind is a soft SCUBA weight. They are neoprene pouches filled with lead shot. A person could even make their own with a small mesh back and some lead shot. Double-sided tape and it should not go anywhere.

[Jens Andree]

Damn Oscar - bloody good work!!! :D

Can't wait to take delivery of a PiDP-11 next year!

[AB]

Don't want Oscar getting on the no-fly list - sounding a bit like a PiDP-WMD with nuts, bolts, lead shot and whatnot :-)

[slob]

If that is the key mechanism that I'm thinking it is, I seriously doubt that it could switch more than an amp for very long. Real Chicago Aces turn up on eBay from time to time but they wouldn't be proportional.
 Software control might be better.

I'm also hoping to get in line for this - I'm already considering how to make a longer case for it, perhaps in metal, because I now have a small metal brake.

[Peter Willard]

On Thursday, 6 October 2016 07:51:21 UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

In my sillier moments (many of those) I think of remaking a VT-05 terminal. Which clearly, from a cosmetic perspective, is the high point of DEC design.

In my early days, I was a serial communications tech in the "DBN"  (Days before networking) at Digital.  That being the case, I have man-handled my share of serial wiring and terminals.

 

The GUTS of the real VT05 were truly ugly and the overall internal design was somewhat bad and hard to maintain. (Maybe not for the time...)  This probably accounts for why it was less successful and later surpassed by the greatly improved VT52 and VT100 series. VT52 and VT100 were essentially upgradable single board designs.

1) it had a small CPU style backplane (no real surprise)

2) It have a CPU style power supply (Now that was a problem)  The VT-05 weighed almost 60 pounds while the VT100 weighed 20 pounds less.

3) It was stuck at 300 baud

4) Screen was actually tiny  9" x 6" compared to the HUGE case.  The case was 30" deep.

5) The ideal and familiar keyboard had not yet evolved.

[Obsolescence]

Peter,

In summary, the VT-05 was - well, a fairly bad terminal. I must admit that in the case of the VT-05 I'm lusting after it looks, really... not its inner values. I'd think a replica should have a VT-52 and VT-100 mode, even if that is a gross distortion of what it was!

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[AB]

with space-age looks like that who cares about personality! :-)

[Kevin Hannan]

I can't wait to officially get in line for one.  I used to wrangle a couple PDP-11/70s, PDP-11/60, PDP-11/23, PDP-11/44 back about 30 years ago.  Fun playing with core memory and washing machine style disk drives...

Kevin H.

[Chris Smith]

As I think more about this, would it work to just have an optional flat bottom panel that extended forward under the switches? When you push a switch down, you could no longer tip the case over. It's flat - therefore easy to both construct and pack - and making it optional allows for end users to use an alternate form of stabilization such as a rack mount. Or just bolting the case to your desk.

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 4:03:05 PM UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

[David Muckle]

Any idea as for what we could expect for software? It would be rather nice to have UnixV7 on there. I believe Blinkenbone has V6 on an emulated 11/40, would it be too much work to adapt that to V7 on the PiDP-11/70?

[Paul R. Bernard]

"'David Muckle' via PiDP-8" <pid...@googlegroups.com> writes:

> Any idea as for what we could expect for software? It would be rather nice to have UnixV7 on there. I
> believe Blinkenbone has V6 on an emulated 11/40, would it be too much work to adapt that to V7 on the
> PiDP-11/70?

V7 I don't know.

However, following the instructions from:

http://vak.ru/doku.php/proj/pdp11/211bsd

I was able to get BSD V2.11 installed and running with little
difficulty. I didn't bother with the pre-built image offered, I don't
know how well or if it works. The from-scratch method is easy enough.
The only tricky bit is where they leave you on your own to partition the
disk with a very strange and more primitive tool than I've become
accustomed. The 2.11 manual is linked if you get stuck, but once you
get the gist of it, it's easy enough. The example partition table given
is exactly what I ended up with when finished.

I've compiled a few simple programs and fiddled a bit but not done a
whole lot with it. The speed and usability on an RPI 2 is fine.

On my list is to recompile the whole system and see if networking can be
accomplished. (There are hints that the answer is yes.)

- paul

[Richard Buckley]

Hi Oscar,

I've been playing with a R Pi expansion board called a Sleepy Pi. It is an Arduino based board that can be used to power the Pi from an unregulated 5V-30V. There is software one can run on the Pi that implements a shutdown command protocol using 2 GPIO pins, or it can be programmed to monitor the current consumed by the Pi and turn off the power when it drops to the known idle level for the model of Pi. Using the current sense capability I think you could implement a shutdown protocol using 1 GPIO pin so it would probably work with your software control idea.

It can be a bit on the expensive side, depending on where you get it, but if someone wanted to have the convenience of a system that actually shuts down, and there is room in the case, it may be an option some people want to look at.

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 3:59:31 PM UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

[Oscar Vermeulen]

Richard,

On 6 January 2017 at 18:38, Richard Buckley <nec.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I've been playing with a R Pi expansion board called a Sleepy Pi. It is an Arduino based board that can be used to power the Pi from an unregulated 5V-30V. There is software one can run on the Pi that implements a shutdown command protocol using 2 GPIO pins, or it can be programmed to monitor the current consumed by the Pi and turn off the power when it drops to the known idle level for the model of Pi. Using the current sense capability I think you could implement a shutdown protocol using 1 GPIO pin so it would probably work with your software control idea.

If it can live off only 1 gpio pin, that will work! 

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Chris Smith]

Oscar --

Just curious how the PDP-11 work is moving. Last post I saw on the website indicated you were pleased with the results, but you still didn't have solutions you were happy with to produce kits in a good quantity.

It's also possible that other stuff happens every day, and the PDP-11 just hasn't been top of the work pile for a while.

I'm sure you can tell from the comments that lots of people are waiting -- but please be reassured that your own attention to detail, and to "release no computer before its time" is why everyone is watching so closely!

... Chris

[AB]

Hi Oscar -your PiDP efforts are huge projects to do as a one-man show, especially as you have a day job and a life. And I am guessing (compared to the PiDP-8) there will be even more enthusiasts knocking on your door once you do your PiDP11.... so what I am saying is.... to make your main launch as smooth as possible ... you should consider early adopters! :-) <hint> <nudge>

best wishes!
Andy

[Louis Mamakos]

I'm also so very interested in a PiDP11 (or two) of my own, as well as some buddies of mine.

If the large expense related to the case molds is a problem, perhaps some sort of kickstarter or similar process would work to raise the $20K or whatever was required?  I'd be willing to invest in the project that way to get something that's so  unique, special and obviously a labor of love (or maybe insanity.. but either works for me!)

[Obsolescence]

Hi,

I'm getting quite a few emails asking about progress on the PiDP-11. So I guess it's better to post an update.

I've been held up for a good few months by a combination of not knowing my way around injection molding, and some family circumstances. 

As the delay got out of hand, two weeks ago I got professional help to wrap up the remaining CAD design issues. So hopefully, it's a matter of 1-2 weeks before the mold is made - and then 3 weeks before I have the PiDP-11 cases in my trembling hands. If this has taught me one thing, it's that injection molding is not a trivial subject!

So - apologies for the delay but It Will Be Done!

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Warren Young]

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 3:18:26 PM UTC-6, Obsolescence wrote:

As the delay got out of hand, two weeks ago I got professional help to wrap up the remaining CAD design issues. So hopefully, it's a matter of 1-2 weeks before the mold is made - and then 3 weeks before I have the PiDP-11 cases in my trembling hands.

You're starting with a prototype run, I hope, not going to full production immediately?

How stands the PCB and software?

Is it time to stand up another Fossil instance, or is that premature?

Not that I'm volunteering to lead the PiDP-11 software project, too. :)

[Jonathan Trites]

Probably too late of a question, but is there some way to laminate or protect the front panel silkscreen paint in some way on the pdp11?

I like the pdp8 kit but it's always a little hairy moving the acrylic panel since it can flake easily since the paint is exposed.

[Warren Young]

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 1:59:58 AM UTC-6, Jonathan Trites wrote:

I like the pdp8 kit but it's always a little hairy moving the acrylic panel since it can flake easily since the paint is exposed.

It's only exposed on the back side of the panel. When the PiDP-8/I is taken apart, a whole lot more than the front panel is exposed to damage.

Do you actually have paint flaked off of your PiDP-8/I panel? Given reasonable care, I'd think it would be durable enough to be freely handled on a workbench.

On the workbench, you should have a soft work mat or towel nearby, and the panel should be placed on it. I have no good information on whether it's better to place it Lexan down or paint down. One of the two will be more durable than the other, and it could well be the paint.

For example, with optical media like CDs, you want to put the label side down, for two reasons. One, the lacquer top layer is tougher than the polycarbonate bottom layer. Two, damage to the top layer doesn't prevent reading until you scratch through the metal layer, whereas a scratch on the bottom layer can make the data unreadable.

How that applies to the PiDP-8/I panel, though, I hesitate to guess.

[Oscar Vermeulen]

Jonathan, Warren,

Generally, around the edges it is possible/normal for some paint to flake off. Like half a mm or so. As the back of the panel sits in the dark edge of the case, it should not be noticeable. If it is (for perfectionists) my recommendation is to make the inner edge of the case black with a simple black marker pen. You can also use it to make the edge of the acrylic black. Works fine.

If you're really concerned about flaking, maybe painting the back of the acrylic is a bullet-proof solution. I never tried, theoretically when this extra coat of paint dries it may crack (crackle?) the paint on the acrylic.

Jon, I would say go ahead and try that if you feel like it. If it ruins your acrylic panel, I'll send you a new one... may be a useful experiment!

So far, the only thing that really did damage to two builders' panels was putting sticky tape on the panel's back and then tearing it off again.

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Jonathan Trites]

The flaking around the edge is mostly what I have experienced, but it pointed out to me that the paint is exposed and therefore vulnerable. Mostly I was thinking about a different pdp8 kit described on the GRC site:

https://www.grc.com/pdp-8/yourown-sbc.htm

"The faceplates would be exactly the same as the last time around. They're silk screened in five colors onto the back side of a 2mm polycarbonate sheet, and then adhesive is applied with a special fixture that protects the LED windows. At the same time a 1/4" thick acrylic piece is laser cut and drilled to the necessary dimensions and then eight mounting standoffs are installed and glued into place. Finally the polycarbonate sheet is laminated to the acrylic panel and the whole thing is laser cut once again for the switch openings. Since the ink in the silk screen layer ends up sandwiched in between the polycarbonate sheet and the acrylic back panel, the graphics won't fade and are nearly indestructible. And since the mounting hardware is already installed the whole thing is ready to attach to the PC board."

I know it's too late for the pdp8, but if something similar or analogous could be done for the pdp11, that's what I meant. Of course you could be too late into production or this could cost too much, but I figured the worst that could happen is the answer would be "no", so I might as well ask it.

[AB]

Hey Oscar - the PiDP-11 panel will be 2/3rd scale (same as PidP-8) ... yeah?

cheers!

Andy

[Oscar Vermeulen]

Andy,

On 1 May 2017 at 22:23, AB <lordha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Oscar - the PiDP-11 panel will be 2/3rd scale (same as PidP-8) ... yeah?

Almost. 60% instead of 66%.

I have been having a pretty tough time (6 months!) with getting the case produced, but hopefully in two weeks it's done. One mold maker went bust, #2 sent me into the woods with all sorts of CAD design adjustments, but #3 (ProtoLabs) now seems nearly done. Just some final struggles on how to mount screws into the case (brass inserts, very fancy but it's taken weeks of figuring it out...).  Oh well. RSN.

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Joel Fletcher]

Personally, I'm looking forward to Oscar doing a KI-10 console. This was DEC's ultimate hunk of blinkenlights.  :)

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 10:03:22 PM UTC-4, AB wrote:

PDP6.... OH... PLEASE.... I NEED ONE!!!!

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 9:12:11 PM UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

By the way, on that photo - did you see the PDP-6 replica next to my stuff?


Angelo in Berlin has written an intriguing PDP-6 emulator. Taking a whole different approach: a C program simulates all the electrical signals to construct a PDP-6. That's an approach very different from traditional emulators, and rather close to how you'd do it with an FPGA.

https://github.com/aap/pdp6

 He hopes to marry that simulator and his (as of yet unconnected) front panel soonish. Normally, it would be a slight problem that no software remains for the 6. But Angelo already wrote an assembler and Forth for it, and has an incomplete listing of at least one operating system... you really get to meet impressive people in the world of DEC.


If anyone knows of a source of PDP-6 software, he sure would like to know!

Regards,

Oscar.

[Joel Fletcher]

This looks simply amazing. I can't wait. Sign me up, Oscar.

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 3:07:28 PM UTC-4, AB wrote:

Looks gorgeous!  And is that a key I see?

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 2:43:04 PM UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

On Monday, October 10, 2016 at 6:22:55 PM UTC+2, Paul Birkel wrote:

Lamp test “IRL”.  LED test :->?

Correct - it is a switch, not just a spacer. I'll probably use it not just for Lamp Test but also for special functions, like the PiDP-8 does with the Sing_Step switch.

Meanwhile, a 3D printed test of the case came in. Photos taken in bad light with a bad camera, which actually help to hide the many imperfections.
But - it looks like I wanted! Yay! A right proper baby 11!

It was a great moment when all the parts I had been working on over the past ten months came together and fitted.

 

Regards,

Oscar.

[AB]

You're not wrong there :-)
Andy

[Michael Thompson]

The RICM has two KA10 consoles.

http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/interesting_computer_items/dec-pdp-ka10

Getting a PDP-10 emulator connected to one would be very cool.

[Obsolescence]

Just a little update on my PiDP-11 project... apologies for off-topicness.

So I spent the last month struggling with the CAD designer (a second one) and the factory (Proto Labs, the third one) to get the case done. All revolves around the question of how you can screw the acrylic panel and PCB into the injection-molded case in a robust manner. We started out just thinking 'screw into plastic', then had a fancy brass insert (nut in plastic) that a builder could push in himself to keep costs low, that didn't work, then another insert, didn't work and was only made to order, then two other inserts - no good. So now, Proto Labs will build in a brass insert in the factory. Alas, thus bumping up the price of the case yet again, I'm now at three times the original per-unit quote. But OK, manageable, the kit will still not cost too much more than the PiDP-8 I think.

So now I am waiting again on the dance between CAD designer and Proto Labs - both recommended people BTW, it's my ignorance and the need to do this at low cost and low volume that makes this a painful process. But the case better be just as pretty as the 3D printed prototype.

To be continued!

Oscar.

[Warren Young]

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 10:45:45 AM UTC-6, Obsolescence wrote:

Proto Labs will build in a brass insert in the factory. Alas, thus bumping up the price of the case yet again, I'm now at three times the original per-unit quote. But OK, manageable, the kit will still not cost too much more than the PiDP-8 I think.

I know next to nothing about injection-molded plastic case design and manufacture, but I do know that I prefer threaded brass inserts, particularly in cases (pun intended) where I'm likely to open it occasionally.

One of the things preventing me from testing my PiDP-8/I software with my Pi B+ is purely the hassle of swapping the Pi inside the case. If you can make that easier, I'll consider it a significant upgrade.

[AB]

thanks for all of this Oscar- it'll be so worth the wait! :-)
Andy

[Oscar Vermeulen]

Warren,

On 13 May 2017 at 19:26, Warren Young <tange...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know next to nothing about injection-molded plastic case design and manufacture, but I do know that I prefer threaded brass inserts, particularly in cases (pun intended) where I'm likely to open it occasionally.

Exactly. I felt it's worth the extra cost. Screwing the panel and PCB into just plastic mounts would make it a low-rent toy.

 

I forgot to mention - there may be two hearts to make the PiDP-11 beat. One is the Blinkenbone simh-on-Pi approach, which will be the default, because it's low-cost and simh is pretty nice. But I got in touch with Sytse, who's done a PDP-11 FPGA recreation. The idea might become to make the PiDP PCB compatible with both a Pi and  the FPGA board he's using. If he indeed definitively approves of the idea. Turns out Sytse lives 4 miles away from my part-time pad in Holland (small world). But it's early days on this.

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Obsolescence]

Just on update on my much-delayed PiDP-11 project...

Case...

Oh yes, the case... The bottleneck has been making the injection mold. For six months, it always looked like it'd be done in the next two weeks. Amazing really: 2 mold makers, two specialist CAD designers, SEVEN manufacturers of brass screw inserts - it has been maddening. I had a perfect CAD model of the bezel a year ago... 

Part of this farce was due to me being a complete ignorant in the field of injection molding. But also - it's just not an industry used to deal with small-time ignorants.

But after a few hundred hours (really! Embarrassing but true) I'm all done. Just one more sample to see the exterior finish of the case and to check if the all-important Digital logo will turn out OK, and then it should be a go. Proto Labs has a turnaround time of 15 days from that moment. I can't think of any square inch of the mold that has not been checked by now, so what could go wrong? ;)

Speed

The combination of my multiplexing technique (all in software) and the choice for the BlinkenBone architecture (simh and front panel over a client-server link) makes a Pi Zero too slow. It should not be. And the solution, it looks like, will be to handle the GPIO blinky bits through hardware DMA, taking the load off the CPU. Thanks to Christopher Bachmann for the lead! But more speed gains must then be made on the client/server link.

Producing the parts

As soon as a sample of the final case is in my hands, I can wrap up the PCB and acrylic panel (both need their mount holes aligned perfectly, and that requires having the case physically in my hands to check everything) and produce them. Switches are already done.

Option to use the PDP2011 FPGA project

Sytse's PDP2011 is a PDP-11 on FPGA. I only realised he lived 3 miles from my family in Holland last month... so we met up and the plan is that the PiDP-11 will be able to either take a Raspberry Pi with Simh, or a Terasic DE-Nano with his PDP2011 masterpiece. I really hope that will work out. Although I love simh personally, having a 'real' PDP-11 in an FPGA is exciting. Sytse showed one of them with an uptime of 340 days as a web server!

Bugs

I got some great help from Mike Hill in terms of checking the front panel behaviour. Not good - good enough for demonstrations and simple tests, yes, but not good enough yet. Needs work, but that's manageable. The BlinkenBone code, including the PiDP-11 bit, is on Github BTW.

So - I feel I have been remarkably consistent over the last 6 months, always saying it'll be done in a few weeks. 

Still saying that! But by now, I think it's for real. I really, really hope so - I am developing an allergy for injection molding. Never again ;)

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[AB]

Awesome Oscar!!   Very excited for the next "few weeks" :-)

[Chris Smith]

The tension builds ... this is better than a movie!

On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 10:36:17 AM UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

[Murray Williams]

Wow, that is a lot of effort!  I very much look forward to updates!

[Chuck McManis]

Awesome! So which DE0 Nano system would it be good to order now so that when the time comes we'll already have one? 

--Chuck

On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 7:36:17 AM UTC-7, Obsolescence wrote:

[Thomas Lake]

On Friday, June 16, 2017 at 10:36:17 AM UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

Just on update on my much-delayed PiDP-11 project...

I can't think of any square inch of the mold that has not been checked by now, so what could go wrong? ;)

Famous last words! :)

So when will you start taking pre orders? I have two of your PiDP-8 kits and your attention to detail is quite evident. 

I have no hesitation to order one of your new kits. Besides, I need to keep up with the latest news from Holland

that I read from the packing material of your kits!

Tom L

 

[Michael Petry]

Great news. Waiting with great anticipation...

You mentioned that the PiDP-11 bits are in Github.  Which repository would be best to track?

Thanks,

Mike

[Remy van Elst]

I'm so anticipating the PiDP-11! Can't wait the next few weeks :D

Op vrijdag 30 september 2016 17:47:56 UTC+2 schreef AB:

[Obsolescence]

Just one more update... today the PiDP-11 case FINALLY went into production. Yay!

It has taken a silly amount of time, partly/mostly because I am an injection molding idiot. But in the end, I got great help from injection molding professionals who helped me navigate the last problems. Thanks, Tom and Ash! It also took a custom-made brass insert for screw nuts. Apparently the PDP-11 bezel design, when shrunk 60% to become a PiDP-11 case, made it a challenge to fit screws into, and it took some ingenuity (not mine) to solve that.

So, in a week or three I'll have 200 cases and I can check if the PCB and acrylic panel indeed fit the case. Maybe I need to shift a mount hole a few mils, you never know until you can try. If all starts to go well from here, that is ;)

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Jens Andree]

Wow! Such fantastic news!!! :D

I'm sorry if this question has already been answered previously but do you have a ballpark figure on roughly how much the PiDP-11 kit is going to be when done?

I'm going to be very high up on the "first to order" list for sure but as someone who recently was forced to retire because I was in an accident which totally turned my life upside down (literally) I need to figure out how much money I need to scrape together to make it happen? Where I live you're pretty much shafted financially if you are no longer able to work for medical reasons and there's no way I'm going to miss having a PiDP-11 next to my PiDP-8 and the other vintage computers I've kept throughout the years...

Many thanks in advance and a huge WELL DONE for all the work you've done Oscar!!!

Best Regards,

Jens

[Frank Wortner]

I'm cracking open my piggy bank!  I want one!

The first Unix system I ever used was a PDP 11/45, so I am looking forward to wallowing in waves of nostalgia.  Of course, what the PiDP-11 really needs is some speakers so it can simulate fan noise.  Perhaps that will be my first enhancement.  :-)

Thanks for all the persistence, Oscar.

[AB]

Oscar, fantastic news.  Like many I suspect I found out about your project through hackaday.... is there an article on HAD in the pipeline?!
You are going to burn through your first prod run of 200 in just MINUTES.... :-)

best wishes
Andy

On Friday, July 7, 2017 at 7:17:34 PM UTC-4, Obsolescence wrote:

[Jonathan Trites]

Is there an order form or some other way to register for receiving an order form, like for the pidp8?

[Oscar Vermeulen]

Jonathan,

Thanks :) Not really organised but I added you to my Excel sheet of people to mail!

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Martin Lawes]

Add me to that Excel sheet too please Oscar :)

Thanks, Mart.

[Jon Jackson]

Oscar,

If you don't have me on your Excel spreadsheet for the PDP-11 version, please add me as well.

Thanks,

Jon

[John Duksta]

Oscar,

Please add me to the list as well. 

Best,

-john 

-- 

Sent via FidoNet relay

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[Dave B]

I, too, would like to be added to the list.

best,

Dave B

[kenneth....@gmail.com]

Hi Oscar,

I'm interested in one of these kits also! Can you please add me to the list.

Thanks, Ken

[J.C. Wren]

Pretty sure I'm already on the list, but if not, please add me.

Thanks!

--jc

--jc

Save a life; adopt a shelter animal.

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[Jens Andree]

Unless it hasn't already been obvious, please add me to the Excel spreadsheet as well because there's no way I'm going to miss this opportunity!!!

[John D.]

Please add me to the list also 

thank you,

John

[Ed Thierbach]

Same here, please! 

-Ed-

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[J.C. Wren]

I'm thinking there are going to be more replica PDP-11 systems out there than DEC ever actually shipped :)

--jc

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[Kevin Hannan]

I'm hoping I'm still on the list too.  You had me at the point you toyed with the idea after the last run of PiDP-08.

Kevin Hannan

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[Remy van Elst]

For the PiDP-8 Oscar might have already surpassed the PDP-8i... I don't know the sales figures for both, but due to hackaday and all the press coverage, I guess the PiDP must be very very populair.

Op dinsdag 11 juli 2017 04:10:30 UTC+2 schreef J.C. Wren:

[Jader de Amorim]

Hi, Oscar, please add my name to the list for PDP-11 kit.

Thanks!

Jader de Amorim

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[Pete]

Oscar,

Please add me to the list for the Pidp11 kit.

Pete 

[David Mehaffy]

Hi Oscar

Please make sure I am on the list as well

Thanks

[Philipp Geyer]

Sign me up too!

Phil

[Bret Boggs]

Hi!.... I am interested also!

Bret

On Friday, September 30, 2016 at 11:47:56 AM UTC-4, AB wrote:

[Ken Dove]

At the risk of saying me too, please add me to the pdp-11 list. Building 2 pidp8's wasn't enough!

Ken

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[Michael Petry]

Please add another name to the spreadsheet

[Luscious TheLock]

Erm, can you put me down for one too :)

All the best,

James 

[internet...@gmail.com]

There's a list? Please add me to it as well.

Thanks,

Peter

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 12:41:59 PM UTC-7, Obsolescence wrote:

[Wayne Warthen]

I would also like to make sure I am on the list Oscar.

Thanks!

Wayne

[Neil Higgins]

Me too, please, Oscar.
Neil Higgins

[calum.c...@gmail.com]

Please add me to the list as well.

Calum Chisholm

[I know that it's poor netiquette (not to mention a breach of RFC 1855), but seeing a chain of "me too" messages gives me a nice comfortable feeling of nostalgia for the pre-Y2K internet.]

[Phillip Porch]

[Phillip Porch]

Oscar, please add me to the list also. Thank you.

[Whit Turner]

Please add me also - keep up the good work!

[Chris Smith]

Oscar;

(vacation relaxation ruining my memory ... did I request or not???)

Please add me to the PDP-11 list - looking forward to the results of your attention to detail!

... Chris Smith

[Louis Mamakos]

Please include me on your list for a PiDP-11.  I must have one!

[William Anderson]

Oscar -- please add me to the PiDP-11 too !! I need it bad and want to run RSTS/E!

[Curtis Hanner]

Oscar,

Please add me to the PDP-11 list. I'm very interested.

Curtis

[Colin Little]

Great work Oscar - Please add me to the list for the Pidp11 kit as well

Thanks

Colin

[Richard Robinette]

Oscar, please add me to the list for a PiDP-11 as well. Thanks for all your hard work on this and the PiDP-8. I enjoyed building and using the PiDP-8 but now have an insatiable addiction to blinkenlights.