What's the simplest way to play zork on the base install
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Develop With Dan
May 20, 2025, 1:59:58 PM5/20/25
to [PiDP-11]
I've spent a ridiculous amount of time installing and reinstalling and trying to figure out how to get literally anything working on my pidp
I can get into the operating systems themselves, but basically nothing that should work, does. I've managed to get a basic program or 2 to load, but that was pretty hit and miss.
Can anyone give me an idiots guide to getting to anything like zork or something on any of the operating systems when connecting over putty?
I can get into the operating systems themselves, but basically nothing that should work, does. I've managed to get a basic program or 2 to load, but that was pretty hit and miss.
Can anyone give me an idiots guide to getting to anything like zork or something on any of the operating systems when connecting over putty?
Henry Bent
May 20, 2025, 2:21:15 PM5/20/25
to Develop With Dan, [PiDP-11]
Does it have to be Zork? 2.11BSD has /usr/games/adventure, which should be no problem to play if you're able to boot to a command prompt.
-Henry
Clem Cole
May 20, 2025, 2:39:13 PM5/20/25
to Develop With Dan, [PiDP-11]
There are a number of these games around. As Henry said the easiest reach is Advent. But a Zork binary for the PDP-11 exists and ran using overlays on 2.11BSD back in the day, if used to be in /usr/games but I have not looked in while.
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Warner Losh
May 20, 2025, 2:46:15 PM5/20/25
to Clem Cole, Develop With Dan, [PiDP-11]
Wasn't ZORK an rt-11 binary that is wrapped in a shell script to run the EMT emulator? We do not have the source...
Warner
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Henry Bent
May 20, 2025, 3:03:59 PM5/20/25
to Warner Losh, Clem Cole, Develop With Dan, [PiDP-11]
Yeah, I was doing this from memory since I'm traveling right now. Maybe there is /usr/games/zork? I see that there is source for the binary wrapper Warner's talking about in src/games/pdp11/zork.
-Henry
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Clem Cole
May 20, 2025, 3:45:24 PM5/20/25
to Warner Losh, Develop With Dan, [PiDP-11]
Basically, yes but is has a C front end that dorked a few things, but yes, that's the basic scheme. It's a was modified RT-11 binary. IIRC, it will no longer run on RT11 after Purdue hacked it.
ᐧ
ᐧᐧ
ᐧ
Johnny Billquist
May 20, 2025, 6:09:38 PM5/20/25
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If you were to install RSX from http://mim.stupi.net/pidp.htm, and then
use RPM (http://mim.stupi.net/rpm.htm) to install ZEMU, you'll get the
Infocom Zork 1, 2 and 3.
You could also install DUNGEON, which is the large system ZORK rewritten
in Fortran, but pretty much identical to the MDL version.
Johnny
> c5636430fcabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
use RPM (http://mim.stupi.net/rpm.htm) to install ZEMU, you'll get the
Infocom Zork 1, 2 and 3.
You could also install DUNGEON, which is the large system ZORK rewritten
in Fortran, but pretty much identical to the MDL version.
Johnny
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Johnny Billquist
May 20, 2025, 6:17:18 PM5/20/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Yes it was/is.
The wrapping sources are in there, but the Dungeon sources are possibly
an issue. It's the DECUS 560 point version of DUNGEON, but the READ_ME
included with 2.11BSD mention that it was patched, and there isn't
really any information on what those patches consists of.
The original Fortran sources for the 560 point version Dungeon can still
be found and compiled under RT-11, though.
Johnny
On 2025-05-20 20:45, Warner Losh wrote:
> Wasn't ZORK an rt-11 binary that is wrapped in a shell script to run the
> EMT emulator? We do not have the source...
>
> Warner
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2025, 12:39 PM Clem Cole <cl...@ccc.com
> <mailto:cl...@ccc.com>> wrote:
>
> There are a number of these games around. As Henry said the easiest
> reach is Advent. But a Zork binary for the PDP-11 exists and ran
> using overlays on 2.11BSD back in the day, if used to be in /usr/
> games but I have not looked in while.
> bfb1-c5636430fcabn%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> Rw%3D3baMs6w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pidp-11/CAC20D2NT8k88UU%2BUaxC1jut12Us9r5buzwmiyVy-
> Rw%3D3baMs6w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CANCZdfoQ1_4pyoM%2Brg9vrVOB%3DTB933K5orzW5CutRdFYXccOcA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
The wrapping sources are in there, but the Dungeon sources are possibly
an issue. It's the DECUS 560 point version of DUNGEON, but the READ_ME
included with 2.11BSD mention that it was patched, and there isn't
really any information on what those patches consists of.
The original Fortran sources for the 560 point version Dungeon can still
be found and compiled under RT-11, though.
Johnny
On 2025-05-20 20:45, Warner Losh wrote:
> Wasn't ZORK an rt-11 binary that is wrapped in a shell script to run the
> EMT emulator? We do not have the source...
>
> Warner
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2025, 12:39 PM Clem Cole <cl...@ccc.com
> <mailto:cl...@ccc.com>> wrote:
>
> There are a number of these games around. As Henry said the easiest
> reach is Advent. But a Zork binary for the PDP-11 exists and ran
> using overlays on 2.11BSD back in the day, if used to be in /usr/
> games but I have not looked in while.
> ᐧ
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2025 at 2:00 PM Develop With Dan <mud...@gmail.com
> <mailto:mud...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I've spent a ridiculous amount of time installing and
> reinstalling and trying to figure out how to get literally
> anything working on my pidp
>
> I can get into the operating systems themselves, but basically
> nothing that should work, does. I've managed to get a basic
> program or 2 to load, but that was pretty hit and miss.
>
> Can anyone give me an idiots guide to getting to anything like
> zork or something on any of the operating systems when
> connecting over putty?
>
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>
> On Tue, May 20, 2025 at 2:00 PM Develop With Dan <mud...@gmail.com
> <mailto:mud...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I've spent a ridiculous amount of time installing and
> reinstalling and trying to figure out how to get literally
> anything working on my pidp
>
> I can get into the operating systems themselves, but basically
> nothing that should work, does. I've managed to get a basic
> program or 2 to load, but that was pretty hit and miss.
>
> Can anyone give me an idiots guide to getting to anything like
> zork or something on any of the operating systems when
> connecting over putty?
>
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Adam Thornton
May 20, 2025, 8:07:12 PM5/20/25
to Johnny Billquist, pid...@googlegroups.com
Johnny is as usual too modest. ZEMU under RSX is a good way to play all the classic Infocom games, and can be installed without having to build it.
However, if you're more comfortable in a Unix environment, ZIP (the Z-InterPreter, not the compression program) builds readily on 2.11BSD as I recall, and that lets you play all the z3, z4 (which is just A Mind Forever Voyaging? Maybe?), and most of the z5 games. Definitely including Zorks 1-3.
Adam
Henry Bent
May 20, 2025, 8:15:38 PM5/20/25
to Develop With Dan, pid...@googlegroups.com, Adam Thornton
I think we're missing quite a lot of information here. What are the problems when starting the various environments? What are you expecting to happen that isn't happening? Perhaps knowing what sort of languages/OSes are you most comfortable with might help us get to a good starting point and avoid as much frustration as possible.
-Henry
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Chris Jordan
May 20, 2025, 10:16:49 PM5/20/25
to [PiDP-11]
Going back to the original question, "dungeon" is more or less Zork 1, 2, and 3 combined (or rather Zork 1, 2 and 3 are dungeon split up). It comes with the base install on the RT11 operating system. So I think that's what you want to do? The PiDP-11 manual covers this, incompletely, in the section on "A Quick Tour of RT11 on Pg 29", but it misses a step.
in the PDP-11 after a virtual disk change."
1. Boot into RT11
2. For convenience, tell RT11 you have a video terminal so backspace will work: "set term scope".
3. From pg. 29 of the manual: "Press CTRL-E to enter the simh command line, and enter detach rl1. Now
attach the new disk with attach rl1 rt11games.rl2, followed by continue. You are backin the PDP-11 after a virtual disk change."
4. This is the bit the manual misses: After attaching rt11games.rl2 and returning to RT11,
ASSIGN DL1 DK
The key point is reassigning RT11's default working disk to be the games disk. This way the games can find their data files.
This gives you the rank of beginner.
Do you wish to leave the game?
Y
.
ASSIGN DL1 DK
The key point is reassigning RT11's default working disk to be the games disk. This way the games can find their data files.
5. Now you can run dungeon:
.run dk:dungeo
Welcome to Dungeon. This version created 10-AUG-78.
You are in an open field west of a big white house with a boarded
front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
>QUIT
Your score would be 0 [total of 560 points], in 1 move.Welcome to Dungeon. This version created 10-AUG-78.
You are in an open field west of a big white house with a boarded
front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
>QUIT
This gives you the rank of beginner.
Do you wish to leave the game?
Y
.
Hope this helps,
Chris
Johnny Billquist
May 21, 2025, 3:23:52 AM5/21/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
DUNGEON (or mainframe Zork) is more or less equivalent to Zork 1, and
half of Zork 2. Zork 2 was then extended with some new stuff, and Zork 3
is more or less all new.
If you install DUNGEON on RSX, using RPM, you'll get a newer version
than what you have in RT-11.
.dun
Welcome to Dungeon. This version created 16-Jan-03.
This is an open field west of a white house with a boarded front door.
>history
Revision history:
16-Jan-03 Backport to RSX-11M-PLUS (V3.2C).
20-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2B).
01-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2A).
01-Feb-94 Portable VMS/UNIX version (V3.1A).
01-Jan-90 Portable version (V3.0A).
18-Oct-80 Revised DECUS version (V2.6A).
18-Jul-80 Transportable data base file (V2.5A).
28-Feb-80 Compressed text file (V2.4A).
15-Nov-79 Bug fixes (V2.3A).
18-Jan-79 Revised DECUS version (V2.2A).
10-Oct-78 Puzzle Room (V2.1A).
10-Sep-78 Endgame (V2.0A).
10-Aug-78 DECUS version (V1.1B).
14-Jun-78 Public version with parser (V1.1A).
04-Mar-78 Debugging version (V1.0A).
>quit
Your score would be 0 [total of 616 points], in 2 moves.
This gives you the rank of Beginner.
Ok.
.
Johnny
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> ba1f4ef3e62an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
half of Zork 2. Zork 2 was then extended with some new stuff, and Zork 3
is more or less all new.
If you install DUNGEON on RSX, using RPM, you'll get a newer version
than what you have in RT-11.
.dun
Welcome to Dungeon. This version created 16-Jan-03.
This is an open field west of a white house with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
A rubber mat saying "Welcome to Dungeon!" lies by the door.
>history
Revision history:
16-Jan-03 Backport to RSX-11M-PLUS (V3.2C).
20-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2B).
01-Oct-94 Bug fixes (V3.2A).
01-Feb-94 Portable VMS/UNIX version (V3.1A).
01-Jan-90 Portable version (V3.0A).
18-Oct-80 Revised DECUS version (V2.6A).
18-Jul-80 Transportable data base file (V2.5A).
28-Feb-80 Compressed text file (V2.4A).
15-Nov-79 Bug fixes (V2.3A).
18-Jan-79 Revised DECUS version (V2.2A).
10-Oct-78 Puzzle Room (V2.1A).
10-Sep-78 Endgame (V2.0A).
10-Aug-78 DECUS version (V1.1B).
14-Jun-78 Public version with parser (V1.1A).
04-Mar-78 Debugging version (V1.0A).
>quit
Your score would be 0 [total of 616 points], in 2 moves.
This gives you the rank of Beginner.
Do you wish to leave the game?
yes
Ok.
.
Johnny
>
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Develop With Dan
May 21, 2025, 3:56:18 AM5/21/25
to [PiDP-11]
Thanks for all the great information. Sorry for the slow response. I got called back into work.
I'll have to go through all this. I also have a trip planned in about 10 days, so I'm taking the manual(s) for a full read. I know I'm missing some high level concepts. Let me take all this info you all gave me and see what I can figure out.
I'll have to go through all this. I also have a trip planned in about 10 days, so I'm taking the manual(s) for a full read. I know I'm missing some high level concepts. Let me take all this info you all gave me and see what I can figure out.
Thank you for your time.
Develop With Dan
May 21, 2025, 3:57:52 AM5/21/25
to [PiDP-11]
To add, I'm familiar enough with linux that I can fumble through unix just fine. I guess if there's anything fun to do with any of the unix variants that come installed, that would be great to know. Or some pointers to how to install my own stuff.
Johnny Billquist
May 21, 2025, 4:02:29 AM5/21/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Well, 2.11BSD is actually pretty modern BSD. Coming from Linux, there
are some things you need to relearn, but it shouldn't be too hard.
Other OSes will certainly be much more alien to you.
Johnny
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are some things you need to relearn, but it shouldn't be too hard.
Other OSes will certainly be much more alien to you.
Johnny
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> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
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> aa74bb49-8579-4d48-9788-15cb8a890a2cn%40googlegroups.com?
Johnny Billquist
May 21, 2025, 10:58:04 AM5/21/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
A Mind Forever Voyaging
Bureaucracy
Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
Trinity
(Those are at least the ones I know of...)
Johnny
On 2025-05-21 02:15, Henry Bent wrote:
> I think we're missing quite a lot of information here. What are the
> problems when starting the various environments? What are you expecting
> to happen that isn't happening? Perhaps knowing what sort of languages/
> OSes are you most comfortable with might help us get to a good starting
> point and avoid as much frustration as possible.
>
> -Henry
>
> On Tue, 20 May 2025 at 20:07, Adam Thornton <atho...@gmail.com
> <mailto:atho...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Johnny is as usual too modest. ZEMU under RSX is a good way to play
> all the classic Infocom games, and can be installed without having
> to build it.
>
> However, if you're more comfortable in a Unix environment, ZIP (the
> Z-InterPreter, not the compression program) builds readily on
> 2.11BSD as I recall, and that lets you play all the z3, z4 (which is
> just A Mind Forever Voyaging? Maybe?), and most of the z5 games.
> Definitely including Zorks 1-3.
>
> Adam
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
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> CAP2nic0F5U6ZvbWg3rB6aSdm5Z7WBwSYdcY0ii7kmx9EMSOTwg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAEdTPBcPNg97FYm0PBYcyo_NMtH51_hBNSR1LsUPCu6xGiB0Wg%40mail.gmail.com?
A Mind Forever Voyaging
Bureaucracy
Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
Trinity
(Those are at least the ones I know of...)
Johnny
On 2025-05-21 02:15, Henry Bent wrote:
> I think we're missing quite a lot of information here. What are the
> problems when starting the various environments? What are you expecting
> to happen that isn't happening? Perhaps knowing what sort of languages/
> OSes are you most comfortable with might help us get to a good starting
> point and avoid as much frustration as possible.
>
> -Henry
>
> On Tue, 20 May 2025 at 20:07, Adam Thornton <atho...@gmail.com
> <mailto:atho...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Johnny is as usual too modest. ZEMU under RSX is a good way to play
> all the classic Infocom games, and can be installed without having
> to build it.
>
> However, if you're more comfortable in a Unix environment, ZIP (the
> Z-InterPreter, not the compression program) builds readily on
> 2.11BSD as I recall, and that lets you play all the z3, z4 (which is
> just A Mind Forever Voyaging? Maybe?), and most of the z5 games.
> Definitely including Zorks 1-3.
>
> Adam
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
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> pidp-11/
> CAP2nic0F5U6ZvbWg3rB6aSdm5Z7WBwSYdcY0ii7kmx9EMSOTwg%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> pidp-11/
> CAP2nic0F5U6ZvbWg3rB6aSdm5Z7WBwSYdcY0ii7kmx9EMSOTwg%40mail.gmail.com
> CAP2nic0F5U6ZvbWg3rB6aSdm5Z7WBwSYdcY0ii7kmx9EMSOTwg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAEdTPBcPNg97FYm0PBYcyo_NMtH51_hBNSR1LsUPCu6xGiB0Wg%40mail.gmail.com?
Steve Gibson
May 21, 2025, 4:40:30 PM5/21/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Dan, If you decide to go with 211BSD as your OS, I know of two Z-file interpreters that compile and seem to work:
Steven Falco's itf402beta:
Adam Thornton's zterp:
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Steve Gibson
:___;
{ o , o }
| ) ___ )
- " - " -
Ggrinton
May 21, 2025, 10:37:57 PM5/21/25
to [PiDP-11]
Johnny, I'm still getting timeouts on mim.stupi.net
Is there any update or am I doing something wrong? Thanks.
Jacob Ritorto
May 21, 2025, 11:17:00 PM5/21/25
to Ggrinton, [PiDP-11]
It's down for me from Western Pennsylvania Comcast, too.
Also my RSX-11M-PLUS machine's HECnet connection to Johnny's site is down.On Wed, 21 May 2025 at 22:38, Ggrinton <ggri...@gmail.com> wrote:
Johnny, I'm still getting timeouts on mim.stupi.netIs there any update or am I doing something wrong? Thanks.
--
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Johnny Billquist
May 22, 2025, 4:20:36 AM5/22/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com, The Hobbyist DECnet mailing list, Peter Lothberg
For everyone - it's just that some places have been blocked by a router
near Mim and Hecnet-1-1023. I'm trying to reach Peter to get it solved,
but at the moment I can't offer much help. If people are on HECnet, they
can usually reach Mim that way, and use RPM that way as well.
Johnny
On 2025-05-22 05:16, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
> It's down for me from Western Pennsylvania Comcast, too.
> Also my RSX-11M-PLUS machine's HECnet connection to Johnny's site is down.
>
> On Wed, 21 May 2025 at 22:38, Ggrinton <ggri...@gmail.com
> <mailto:ggri...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Johnny, I'm still getting timeouts on mim.stupi.net <http://
> ee7d1f77b6c2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAHYQbfBYN5wd7vhGt%2BT67jh_yQX1SMWoheW--HTTiqroSvio9A%40mail.gmail.com?
near Mim and Hecnet-1-1023. I'm trying to reach Peter to get it solved,
but at the moment I can't offer much help. If people are on HECnet, they
can usually reach Mim that way, and use RPM that way as well.
Johnny
On 2025-05-22 05:16, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
> It's down for me from Western Pennsylvania Comcast, too.
> Also my RSX-11M-PLUS machine's HECnet connection to Johnny's site is down.
>
> On Wed, 21 May 2025 at 22:38, Ggrinton <ggri...@gmail.com
>
> Johnny, I'm still getting timeouts on mim.stupi.net <http://
> mim.stupi.net>
> Is there any update or am I doing something wrong? Thanks.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> Is there any update or am I doing something wrong? Thanks.
>
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/f882bdf4-53b4-4441-a6e1-
> pidp-11/f882bdf4-53b4-4441-a6e1-ee7d1f77b6c2n%40googlegroups.com
> ee7d1f77b6c2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAHYQbfBYN5wd7vhGt%2BT67jh_yQX1SMWoheW--HTTiqroSvio9A%40mail.gmail.com?
justme1968
May 22, 2025, 2:28:35 PM5/22/25
to [PiDP-11]
there is also a dungeon port for 2.11 bsd (which actually calls itself zork) that i found somewhere i don't remember.
You are in an open field west of a big white house with a boarded
front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
>
Last login: Fri Mar 21 22:19:54 from 10.0.1.31
2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Jun 3 15:04:24 PDT 2020
Thu May 22 20:26:05 CEST 2025
andre[1] cd /usr/games
andre[2] ./zork
> Saves game on file dsave.dat
< Restores game from file dsave.dat
!command Execute shell command from Dungeon
Welcome to Dungeon. This version created 10-SEP-78.
2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Jun 3 15:04:24 PDT 2020
Thu May 22 20:26:05 CEST 2025
andre[1] cd /usr/games
andre[2] ./zork
> Saves game on file dsave.dat
< Restores game from file dsave.dat
!command Execute shell command from Dungeon
Welcome to Dungeon. This version created 10-SEP-78.
You are in an open field west of a big white house with a boarded
front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
>
Adam Thornton
May 23, 2025, 1:17:33 AM5/23/25
to Steve Gibson, [PiDP-11]
Uh, I guess I meant it was zterp rather than zip that compiled easily. Anyway, if you're on 211bsd, it works pretty well.
Johnny: huh. I was sure Trinity was z5. The other two I am not surprised were z4.
Adam Thornton
May 23, 2025, 1:29:47 AM5/23/25
to Steve Gibson, [PiDP-11]
# C makefile for the ZIP Infocom interpreter (now called "Zterp" for
# obvious reasons). This particular one is for a PDP-11/70, with split
# instruction and data spaces, running 2.11BSD.
I really hate it when it's me who has confused myself.# obvious reasons). This particular one is for a PDP-11/70, with split
# instruction and data spaces, running 2.11BSD.
Johnny Billquist
May 23, 2025, 4:36:48 AM5/23/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Well, the version I have is definitely 4.
.zem trinity/li
-- System games --
Game Release Serial Inform Z-Machine
TRINITY 12 860926 4
.
Johnny
On 2025-05-23 07:17, Adam Thornton wrote:
> Uh, I guess I meant it was zterp rather than zip that compiled easily.
> Anyway, if you're on 211bsd, it works pretty well.
>
> Johnny: huh. I was sure Trinity was z5. The other two I am not
> surprised were z4.
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 1:40 PM Steve Gibson <st...@stevegibson.com
> <mailto:st...@stevegibson.com>> wrote:
>
> Dan, If you decide to go with 211BSD as your OS, I know of two Z-
> file interpreters that compile and seem to work:
>
> Steven Falco's itf402beta:
> https://github.com/stevefalco/itf402beta <https://github.com/
> stevefalco/itf402beta>
>
> Adam Thornton's zterp:
> https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://github.com/
> athornton/pdp11-zterp>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
> TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com?
.zem trinity/li
-- System games --
Game Release Serial Inform Z-Machine
TRINITY 12 860926 4
.
Johnny
On 2025-05-23 07:17, Adam Thornton wrote:
> Uh, I guess I meant it was zterp rather than zip that compiled easily.
> Anyway, if you're on 211bsd, it works pretty well.
>
> Johnny: huh. I was sure Trinity was z5. The other two I am not
> surprised were z4.
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 1:40 PM Steve Gibson <st...@stevegibson.com
> <mailto:st...@stevegibson.com>> wrote:
>
> Dan, If you decide to go with 211BSD as your OS, I know of two Z-
> file interpreters that compile and seem to work:
>
> Steven Falco's itf402beta:
> stevefalco/itf402beta>
>
> Adam Thornton's zterp:
> https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://github.com/
> athornton/pdp11-zterp>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
> <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
>
> A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
>
> A Mind Forever Voyaging
> Bureaucracy
> Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
> Trinity
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
> <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
>
> A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
>
> A Mind Forever Voyaging
> Bureaucracy
> Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
> Trinity
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
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> CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
> TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com?
Develop With Dan
May 24, 2025, 4:57:33 PM5/24/25
to [PiDP-11]
Can I just start with this one thing?
September 10 12:13:49 init: configure system
dz 0 csr 160100 vector 310 attached
ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached
rx 0 csr 177170 vector 264 attached
tms 0 csr 174500 vector 260 vectorset attached
cn 1 csr 176500 vector 300 skipped: No CSR.
erase, kill ^U, intr ^C
# ls
.cshrc .profile bin home netnix unix
.hushlogin .rhosts boot lib sbin usr
.kermrc .tiprc dev lost+found sys var
.login README disklabel mdec tmp vmunix
.mailrc VERSION etc mnt toyset
# cd /usr
# ls
# cd bin
bin: bad directory
# cd games
games: bad directory
# ^C
Does it have to be Zork? 2.11BSD has /usr/games/adventure, which should be no problem to play if you're able to boot to a command prompt.
Nothing anyone ever tells me *should* be there, ever is and I have no idea why.
I can boot into BSD 2.11, but the usr folder is empty.
I can boot into BSD 2.11, but the usr folder is empty.
dz 0 csr 160100 vector 310 attached
ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached
rx 0 csr 177170 vector 264 attached
tms 0 csr 174500 vector 260 vectorset attached
cn 1 csr 176500 vector 300 skipped: No CSR.
erase, kill ^U, intr ^C
# ls
.cshrc .profile bin home netnix unix
.hushlogin .rhosts boot lib sbin usr
.kermrc .tiprc dev lost+found sys var
.login README disklabel mdec tmp vmunix
.mailrc VERSION etc mnt toyset
# cd /usr
# ls
# cd bin
bin: bad directory
# cd games
games: bad directory
# ^C
David Johnson
May 24, 2025, 5:27:30 PM5/24/25
to Develop With Dan, [PiDP-11]
When you see the bare "# " prompt, you are in single user mode.
Before fsck was automated (which it can be in 2.11), you were meant to check the filesystems here
before going multiuser. fsck -p, and if it comes back clean, hit ^D and let it come up to multiuser.
If there are errors on root, it should tell you to reboot without syncing, try fsck -p again after it enters single user mode.
See the mailing list for instructions on how to make this happen automatically, and you should see "login: " instead of "# " when the dust settles.
-- ddj
Dave Johnson
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<putty_6v4vQcDn0k.png>
Malcolm Ray
May 24, 2025, 7:12:46 PM5/24/25
to David Johnson, Develop With Dan, [PiDP-11]
To put it explicitly: when /usr is empty, that's because /usr is a separate filesystem, which hasn't been mounted yet.
On my 2.11 system, /etc/fstab contains:
/dev/ra0a / ufs rw 1 1
/dev/ra0b none swap sw 0 0
/dev/ra0g /usr ufs rw 1 2
/dev/ra0h /home ufs rw 1 2
So, in single-user mode, /usr and /home will be empty directories.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/8D81D033-3725-4FA6-9ECB-61BE070A2CB8%40brown.edu.
Johnny Billquist
May 24, 2025, 9:32:37 PM5/24/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
You're still in single user mode with no file systems mounted...
Johnny
> stevefalco/itf402beta> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
> TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9->
> > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5-
> ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com?
Johnny
> > stevefalco/itf402beta>
> >
> > Adam Thornton's zterp:
> > https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://github.com/
> athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> >
> > Adam Thornton's zterp:
> > https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://github.com/
> > athornton/pdp11-zterp>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
> > <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
> >
> > A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
> >
> > A Mind Forever Voyaging
> > Bureaucracy
> > Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
> > Trinity
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
> > <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
> >
> > A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
> >
> > A Mind Forever Voyaging
> > Bureaucracy
> > Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
> > Trinity
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
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> > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
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> > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
> TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9->
> > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
> --
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Develop With Dan
May 25, 2025, 6:17:54 AM5/25/25
to [PiDP-11]
Ok. Thank you, David for getting me going in the right direction
For a noob like me, it required
1. Boot into BSD 2.11
2. fsck -p did nothing for me, I just get
# fsck -p
/dev/ra0a: BLK(S) MISSING (SALVAGED)
/dev/ra0a: 581 files, 2778 used, 5038 free
3. fsck does something. I have to manually create the scratch file every time. You mention something about the mailing list. I don't know what that is.
4. After about 5 minutes, I get a prompt and I can
mount /usr
mount /home
5. CD in and run
cd /usr/games
5. CD in and run
cd /usr/games
./zork
Does this seem about right or am I going through this in a roundabout way?
I appreciate you all sticking with me. I'm obviously a complete noob at this.
Does this seem about right or am I going through this in a roundabout way?
I appreciate you all sticking with me. I'm obviously a complete noob at this.
Johnny Billquist
May 25, 2025, 6:24:08 AM5/25/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
You are doing things slightly wrong...
On 2025-05-25 12:17, Develop With Dan wrote:
>
> Ok. Thank you, David for getting me going in the right direction
>
> For a noob like me, it required
> 1. Boot into BSD 2.11
> 2. fsck -p did nothing for me, I just get
> # fsck -p
> /dev/ra0a: BLK(S) MISSING (SALVAGED)
> /dev/ra0a: 581 files, 2778 used, 5038 free
That means your root partition had some corruption. At this point, you
need to reboot without a sync, since modifications to the root file
syste, while it is mounted, are only done on disk, and not in memory, so
if you sync, the previously bad data will be written back again.
reboot -n
will do that.
> 3. fsck does something. I have to manually create the scratch file
> every time. You mention something about the mailing list. I don'tknow
> what that is.
Yes, for larger file systems (not the root file system), fsck will need
a temporary file, since it don't have enough memory to manage it all.
> 4. After about 5 minutes, I get a prompt and I can
> mount /usr
> mount /home
> 5. CD in and run
> cd /usr/games
> ./zork
>
> Does this seem about right or am I going through this in a roundabout way?
You are still in single user mode at this point, and while you can of
course do that, there are a bunch of things that you should let the
system do, such as getting various daemons running, the network set up,
and so on.
So what you should do is hit ^D once fsck is complete, and it will do
all those things, and then you will get a login: prompt.
I usually really recommend people to change the system to by default go
to multi-user mode, because then all of these steps are taken care of
automatically, and you don't really have to deal with any of this.
> I appreciate you all sticking with me. I'm obviously a complete noob at
> this.
Everyone have to learn some way. It's just a bit unfortunate that the
system image you use don't have this set up in an automated way.
And I don't know what documentation, if any, you've seen/read.
Johnny
> > stevefalco/itf402beta> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> > pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>>
> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
> > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>
> > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> > pidp-11/0a61e7d5-ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5- <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5->
> > ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a87a9f75-1ae9-4663-
> a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
On 2025-05-25 12:17, Develop With Dan wrote:
>
> Ok. Thank you, David for getting me going in the right direction
>
> For a noob like me, it required
> 1. Boot into BSD 2.11
> 2. fsck -p did nothing for me, I just get
> # fsck -p
> /dev/ra0a: BLK(S) MISSING (SALVAGED)
> /dev/ra0a: 581 files, 2778 used, 5038 free
need to reboot without a sync, since modifications to the root file
syste, while it is mounted, are only done on disk, and not in memory, so
if you sync, the previously bad data will be written back again.
reboot -n
will do that.
> 3. fsck does something. I have to manually create the scratch file
> every time. You mention something about the mailing list. I don'tknow
> what that is.
a temporary file, since it don't have enough memory to manage it all.
> 4. After about 5 minutes, I get a prompt and I can
> mount /usr
> mount /home
> 5. CD in and run
> cd /usr/games
> ./zork
>
> Does this seem about right or am I going through this in a roundabout way?
course do that, there are a bunch of things that you should let the
system do, such as getting various daemons running, the network set up,
and so on.
So what you should do is hit ^D once fsck is complete, and it will do
all those things, and then you will get a login: prompt.
I usually really recommend people to change the system to by default go
to multi-user mode, because then all of these steps are taken care of
automatically, and you don't really have to deal with any of this.
> I appreciate you all sticking with me. I'm obviously a complete noob at
> this.
system image you use don't have this set up in an automated way.
And I don't know what documentation, if any, you've seen/read.
Johnny
> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
> > > stevefalco/itf402beta>
> > >
> > > Adam Thornton's zterp:
> > > https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://github.com/
> athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> > athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> > > stevefalco/itf402beta>
> > >
> > > Adam Thornton's zterp:
> > > https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://github.com/
> athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
> > > athornton/pdp11-zterp>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
> > > <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
> > >
> > > A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
> > >
> > > A Mind Forever Voyaging
> > > Bureaucracy
> > > Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
> > > Trinity
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > send
> > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > > athornton/pdp11-zterp>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
> > > <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
> > >
> > > A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
> > >
> > > A Mind Forever Voyaging
> > > Bureaucracy
> > > Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
> > > Trinity
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > send
> > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> > pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>>
> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
> > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>
> > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>
> > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9->
> > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>?
> > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9->
> > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> > pidp-11/0a61e7d5-ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5- <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5->
> > ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> a87a9f75-1ae9-4663-a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com <https://
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a87a9f75-1ae9-4663-
> a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Develop With Dan
May 25, 2025, 9:11:00 AM5/25/25
to [PiDP-11]
Thank you for the great info. I've done about 5 or 6 reinstalls because of different issues. IIRC there were slight variances in the install procedure between the manual and the instructable. I don't remember which one was newer.
I'm going to be on the road a lot over the next 2 weeks. Do you know if this stuff plays well in a vm? It would be nice to be able to play from the road.
I'm going to be on the road a lot over the next 2 weeks. Do you know if this stuff plays well in a vm? It would be nice to be able to play from the road.
Johnny Billquist
May 25, 2025, 9:18:49 AM5/25/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Shouldn't matter if you're in a vm. And I suspect asking you to modify
some code and rebuild things might be a bit much at the moment, but that
is what should be done so you get the whole boot automated.
Maybe someone can point at a disk image that already have this set up...
Johnny
> > > stevefalco/itf402beta> <https://github.com/ <https://
> github.com/> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
> github.com/> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <http://groups.google.com/d/
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <http://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/pidp-11/>>
> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> msgid/>>
> > > pidp-11/0a61e7d5-
> ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5- <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5-> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5- <http://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5->>
> > > ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>?
> > a87a9f75-1ae9-4663-a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a87a9f75-1ae9-4663- <http://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a87a9f75-1ae9-4663->
> > a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e4d07f5a-406e-4835-
> b4a6-3ef6d5768733n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
some code and rebuild things might be a bit much at the moment, but that
is what should be done so you get the whole boot automated.
Maybe someone can point at a disk image that already have this set up...
Johnny
> github.com/> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
> > <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/> <https://github.com/
> <https://github.com/>>>
> > > > stevefalco/itf402beta>
> > > >
> > > > Adam Thornton's zterp:
> > > > https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://github.com/
> athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> > athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
> > > athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://
> <https://github.com/>>>
> > > > stevefalco/itf402beta>
> > > >
> > > > Adam Thornton's zterp:
> > > > https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://github.com/
> athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> > athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>
> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
> github.com/> <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
> > <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/> <https://github.com/
> <https://github.com/>>>
> > > > athornton/pdp11-zterp>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist
> <b...@softjar.se
> > > > <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
> > > >
> > > > A Mind Forever Voyaging
> > > > Bureaucracy
> > > > Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
> > > > Trinity
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> > > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it,
> > > send
> > > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
> > msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
> <https://github.com/>>>
> > > > athornton/pdp11-zterp>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist
> <b...@softjar.se
> > > > <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
> > > >
> > > > A Mind Forever Voyaging
> > > > Bureaucracy
> > > > Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
> > > > Trinity
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it,
> > > send
> > > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <http://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/pidp-11/>>>
> > > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
> > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>
> > > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>>
> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/> <https://
> > > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
> > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>
> > > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>>
> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <http://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/pidp-11/>>
> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>>
> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9->
> > > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>
> > > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>>
> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9->
> > > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
> <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>
> > > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>
> <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com>>>?
> > > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > > || on a psychedelic trip
> > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > send
> > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
> > > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > > || on a psychedelic trip
> > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > send
> > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> msgid/>>
> > > pidp-11/0a61e7d5-
> ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5- <https://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5-> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5- <http://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5->>
> > > ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>?
> > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >
> > --
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> > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
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> > a87a9f75-1ae9-4663-a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com> <https://
> > groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a87a9f75-1ae9-4663- <http://
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a87a9f75-1ae9-4663->
> > a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
> --
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> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
> e4d07f5a-406e-4835-b4a6-3ef6d5768733n%40googlegroups.com <https://
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e4d07f5a-406e-4835-
> b4a6-3ef6d5768733n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Malcolm Ray
May 25, 2025, 10:33:00 AM5/25/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Anyone who has done a recent install from here:
https://github.com/obsolescence/pidp11.git
and followed the instructions in the manual, and answered yes in
the appropriate places, should end up with three separate instances
of 2.11BSD.
Firstly, there's the one which I suspect Dan is using, which boots
into single-user. If using Oscar's boot selection process, this is
the one selected via 0102. I haven't bothered with this one.
Secondly, there's Chase Covello's image, which the install script
fetches from github if you answer yes to this question:
"2024 update: Add Chase Covello's updated 2.11BSD ?"
It's selected via 0211. This boots into multi-user, and is kept
reasonably up to date: right now it's at patch level 482, 8 patches
behind the present. It has /usr/games/adventure and /usr/games/zork
(560 points). It will be slow to boot until you've set up networking,
but thereafter it's quite a civilised experience.
Thirdly, there's the Paul Nankervis image, which is installed
separately (instructions in the manual). Code 1000 and then 'boot rp1'.
This boots into multi-user, and has /usr/games/adventure (which may
be broken, I think), and /usr/games/zork (560 points). Patch level
448 (quite outdated), and not much free space on the single disk
(of course, one could remedy this). I haven't bothered with this
image.
I think the Covello image is the best choice.
https://github.com/obsolescence/pidp11.git
and followed the instructions in the manual, and answered yes in
the appropriate places, should end up with three separate instances
of 2.11BSD.
Firstly, there's the one which I suspect Dan is using, which boots
into single-user. If using Oscar's boot selection process, this is
the one selected via 0102. I haven't bothered with this one.
Secondly, there's Chase Covello's image, which the install script
fetches from github if you answer yes to this question:
"2024 update: Add Chase Covello's updated 2.11BSD ?"
It's selected via 0211. This boots into multi-user, and is kept
reasonably up to date: right now it's at patch level 482, 8 patches
behind the present. It has /usr/games/adventure and /usr/games/zork
(560 points). It will be slow to boot until you've set up networking,
but thereafter it's quite a civilised experience.
Thirdly, there's the Paul Nankervis image, which is installed
separately (instructions in the manual). Code 1000 and then 'boot rp1'.
This boots into multi-user, and has /usr/games/adventure (which may
be broken, I think), and /usr/games/zork (560 points). Patch level
448 (quite outdated), and not much free space on the single disk
(of course, one could remedy this). I haven't bothered with this
image.
I think the Covello image is the best choice.
David Johnson
May 25, 2025, 10:39:54 AM5/25/25
to Develop With Dan, [PiDP-11]
It also seems the version of BSD you're running is pretty old, it was fixed in 2019 to go to multiuser mode by default.
I just downloaded the 2.11BSD disk image from this page https://github.com/chasecovello/211bsd-pidp11
I shutdown my running BSD, exited from simh.
As root, save the old .dsk file if you think it has any value,
Then run unxz 2.11BSD_rq.dsk.xz
At this point I just rebooted my PI, and connected back with the ./pidp11 script.
This version from March 2025.
As long as you remember to shutdown bsd cleanly, it shouldn't take long at all to come back up,
except for the LPD server which times out if you haven't told it a real net printer to use.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e4d07f5a-406e-4835-b4a6-3ef6d5768733n%40googlegroups.com.
sunnybo...@gmail.com
May 25, 2025, 11:46:45 AM5/25/25
to [PiDP-11]
I'm running the latest install of Raspbien and the latest gihub/obsolescence version of PiDP11 on a Pi3 and a Pi2B. Both work just fine. I've been manually booting to 0102 (BSD2.11) which is as noted probably the "original" BSD but it does have later patches added I believe. Yes, it boots to single user mode. I just always pressed <ctrl>-d to move to muti-user mode (should be doing the fsck as Johnny noted - thanks!) and adventure is in /usr/games and works fine. I have not tried the other BSD images now available on the latest download/install from github/obsolescence. I probably will at some point, but I'm comfortable with 0102 and it does work just fine.
Malcolm Ray
May 25, 2025, 12:48:27 PM5/25/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
0102 is patch level 451, which is over 6 years old. See the /VERSION file.
Some of the missing patches are just quality of life stuff, but there are some more important ones too.
Particularly relevant to this discussion is patch 456, which implements a "filesystem clean" flag.
This allows fsck to skip its (sometimes lengthy) checks when handed a filesystem which was cleanly unmounted.
Very useful for speeding up boot.
Patch 469 might be important to users in North America, since it fixes DST rules in those timezones.
Without this patch, you'll presumably find the DST changeovers happen on the wrong dates.
Amusingly, there are also some Y2K patches. Better late than never!
Obviously you could bring the 0102 image up to date, but that would be making a significant amount of work for yourself.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/b3828a04-bfa2-47d2-b5df-1c8f7f13c1d9n%40googlegroups.com.
terry-...@glaver.org
May 25, 2025, 3:26:08 PM5/25/25
to [PiDP-11]
On Sunday, May 25, 2025 at 6:24:08 AM UTC-4 b...@softjar.se wrote:
Yes, for larger file systems (not the root file system), fsck will need
a temporary file, since it don't have enough memory to manage it all.
For advanced users, there's another gotcha - if the root partition exceeds
a certain size (8MB is safe, 12MB isn't), fsck will ask for the location of
a temporary file and you're in trouble as the only thing you have mounted
is the root partition.
There's a related type of issue with the swapfile. Executables with the
There's a related type of issue with the swapfile. Executables with the
"sticky text" bit get copied into the swapfile, so it might need to be big-
ger than expected. sms's system normally runs with about 1MB of swap
in use just for sticky text.
Quoting someone else further up-thread:
> 4. After about 5 minutes, I get a prompt and I can
> mount /usr
> mount /home
> 5. CD in and run
> cd /usr/games
> ./zork
>
> Does this seem about right or am I going through this in a roundabout way?
There are 2BSD images that have the autoboot option enabled. The Covello
one was at patchlevel 481 the last time I checked. You can find the patch-
level of the one you're running by doing "head -1 /VERSION".
I have a mostly-untouched image of one at 490, based on the Covello one at
I have a mostly-untouched image of one at 490, based on the Covello one at
if you'd like me to gzip it for you.
Johnny Billquist
May 25, 2025, 4:07:51 PM5/25/25
to pid...@googlegroups.com
If you get the version that automatically goes into multiuser, you will
also automatically get fsck run if needed at boot, and properly handled.
If you just go multiuser without fsck, sooner or later you'll start
getting a file system corrupted enough that you will be unhappy.
Johnny
On 2025-05-25 17:46, sunnybo...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm running the latest install of Raspbien and the latest gihub/
> obsolescence version of PiDP11 on a Pi3 and a Pi2B. Both work just fine.
> I've been manually booting to 0102 (BSD2.11) which is as noted probably
> the "original" BSD but it does have later patches added I believe. Yes,
> it boots to single user mode. I just always pressed <ctrl>-d to move to
> muti-user mode (should be doing the fsck as Johnny noted - thanks!) and
> adventure is in /usr/games and works fine. I have not tried the other
> BSD images now available on the latest download/install from github/
> obsolescence. I probably will at some point, but I'm comfortable with
> 0102 and it does work just fine.
>
> On Sunday, May 25, 2025 at 7:39:54 AM UTC-7 david_...@brown.eduwrote:
>
> It also seems the version of BSD you're running is pretty old, it
> was fixed in 2019 to go to multiuser mode by default.
> I just downloaded the 2.11BSD disk image from this page https://
> github.com/chasecovello/211bsd-pidp11 <https://github.com/
> chasecovello/211bsd-pidp11>
>> > > >https://github.com/stevefalco/itf402beta <https://
>> > <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/><https://
>> github.com/ <https://github.com/>>>
>> > <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/><https://
>> github.com/ <https://github.com/>>>
>> > msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>> > > pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/><https://
>> >groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <http://groups.google.com/
>> d/msgid/pidp-11/>>>
>> > > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
>> > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
>> <http://40mail.gmail.com/>
>> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/>>
>> > > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/
>> ><http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/>>>
>> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <https://
>> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/>>
>> > > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/
>> ><http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/>>>?
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>> > > pidp-11/0a61e7d5-
>> ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/>>
>> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5-
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5-><https://
>> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/>>?
>> > To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>
>> > a87a9f75-1ae9-4663-a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/><https://
>> >groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a87a9f75-1ae9-4663-
>> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a87a9f75-1ae9-4663->
>> > a1ca-68799330c755n%40googlegroups.com?
>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>> pidp-11/e4d07f5a-406e-4835-b4a6-3ef6d5768733n%40googlegroups.com
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/b3828a04-bfa2-47d2-
> b5df-1c8f7f13c1d9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
also automatically get fsck run if needed at boot, and properly handled.
If you just go multiuser without fsck, sooner or later you'll start
getting a file system corrupted enough that you will be unhappy.
Johnny
On 2025-05-25 17:46, sunnybo...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm running the latest install of Raspbien and the latest gihub/
> obsolescence version of PiDP11 on a Pi3 and a Pi2B. Both work just fine.
> I've been manually booting to 0102 (BSD2.11) which is as noted probably
> the "original" BSD but it does have later patches added I believe. Yes,
> it boots to single user mode. I just always pressed <ctrl>-d to move to
> muti-user mode (should be doing the fsck as Johnny noted - thanks!) and
> adventure is in /usr/games and works fine. I have not tried the other
> BSD images now available on the latest download/install from github/
> obsolescence. I probably will at some point, but I'm comfortable with
> 0102 and it does work just fine.
>
> On Sunday, May 25, 2025 at 7:39:54 AM UTC-7 david_...@brown.eduwrote:
>
> It also seems the version of BSD you're running is pretty old, it
> was fixed in 2019 to go to multiuser mode by default.
> I just downloaded the 2.11BSD disk image from this page https://
> chasecovello/211bsd-pidp11>
> I shutdown my running BSD, exited from simh.
> As root, save the old .dsk file if you think it has any value,
> Then run unxz 2.11BSD_rq.dsk.xz
> At this point I just rebooted my PI, and connected back with the ./
> pidp11 script.
> This version from March 2025.
> As long as you remember to shutdown bsd cleanly, it shouldn't take
> long at all to come back up,
> except for the LPD server which times out if you haven't told it a
> real net printer to use.
>
>> On May 25, 2025, at 9:11 AM, Develop With Dan <mud...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for the great info. I've done about 5 or 6 reinstalls
>> because of different issues. IIRC there were slight variances in
>> the install procedure between the manual and the instructable. I
>> don't remember which one was newer.
>>
>> I'm going to be on the road a lot over the next 2 weeks. Do you
>> know if this stuff plays well in a vm? It would be nice to be able
>> to play from the road.
>>
>> On Sunday, May 25, 2025 at 6:24:08 AM UTC-4 b...@softjar.se
>> <http://softjar.se/>wrote:
> As root, save the old .dsk file if you think it has any value,
> Then run unxz 2.11BSD_rq.dsk.xz
> At this point I just rebooted my PI, and connected back with the ./
> pidp11 script.
> This version from March 2025.
> As long as you remember to shutdown bsd cleanly, it shouldn't take
> long at all to come back up,
> except for the LPD server which times out if you haven't told it a
> real net printer to use.
>
>> On May 25, 2025, at 9:11 AM, Develop With Dan <mud...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for the great info. I've done about 5 or 6 reinstalls
>> because of different issues. IIRC there were slight variances in
>> the install procedure between the manual and the instructable. I
>> don't remember which one was newer.
>>
>> I'm going to be on the road a lot over the next 2 weeks. Do you
>> know if this stuff plays well in a vm? It would be nice to be able
>> to play from the road.
>>
>> On Sunday, May 25, 2025 at 6:24:08 AM UTC-4 b...@softjar.se
>> github.com/stevefalco/itf402beta><https://github.com/
>> <https://github.com/>
>> > stevefalco/itf402beta> <https://github.com/ <https://
>> github.com/><https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
>> <https://github.com/>
>> > stevefalco/itf402beta> <https://github.com/ <https://
>> > > stevefalco/itf402beta> <https://github.com/ <https://
>> github.com/><https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
>> > <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/><https://
>> github.com/ <https://github.com/>>>
>> > > > stevefalco/itf402beta>
>> > > >
>> > > > Adam Thornton's zterp:
>> > > >https://github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp <https://
>> > > >
>> > > > Adam Thornton's zterp:
>> github.com/athornton/pdp11-zterp><https://github.com/
>> <https://github.com/>
>> > athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://
>> github.com/><https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
>> <https://github.com/>
>> > athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://
>> > > athornton/pdp11-zterp> <https://github.com/ <https://
>> github.com/><https://github.com/ <https://github.com/>>
>> > <https://github.com/ <https://github.com/><https://
>> github.com/ <https://github.com/>>>
>> > > > athornton/pdp11-zterp>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist
>> <b...@softjar.se
>> > > > <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
>> > > >
>> > > > A Mind Forever Voyaging
>> > > > Bureaucracy
>> > > > Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
>> > > > Trinity
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to
>> the Google
>> > > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
>> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>> from it,
>> > > send
>> > > > an email topidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>> > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
>> > > > To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/
>> d/ <https://groups.google.com/d/>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 9:58 AM Johnny Billquist
>> <b...@softjar.se
>> > > > <mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > A rather small tangent comment... V4 games:
>> > > >
>> > > > A Mind Forever Voyaging
>> > > > Bureaucracy
>> > > > Nord And Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It
>> > > > Trinity
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to
>> the Google
>> > > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
>> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>> from it,
>> > > send
>> > > > an email topidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>> > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
>> > > > To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/
>> > msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>> > > pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/><https://
>> >groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <http://groups.google.com/
>> d/msgid/pidp-11/>>>
>> > > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9-
>> > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
>> <http://40mail.gmail.com/>
>> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/>>
>> > > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/
>> ><http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/>>>
>> > > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <https://
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/><https://
>> >groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <http://groups.google.com/
>> d/msgid/pidp-11/>>
>> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9- <https://groups.google.com/d/
>> >groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/ <http://groups.google.com/
>> d/msgid/pidp-11/>>
>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>> > pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>>
>> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9->
>> > > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
>> <http://40mail.gmail.com/>
>> > pidp-11/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/>>
>> > > CAP2nic03mAj3O4UMAh8ah9->
>> > > > TSLBz01mw%3DXNvvGrJLHnxfX6OAw%40mail.gmail.com
>> > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/>>
>> > > <http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/
>> ><http://40mail.gmail.com <http://40mail.gmail.com/>>>?
>> > > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> > > || on a psychedelic trip
>> > > email:b...@softjar.se|| Reading murder books
>> > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to
>> the Google
>> > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
>> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>> from it,
>> > send
>> > > an email topidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>> > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> > > || on a psychedelic trip
>> > > email:b...@softjar.se|| Reading murder books
>> > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to
>> the Google
>> > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
>> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>> from it,
>> > send
>> > > an email topidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>> > > To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/
>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://
>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/>>
>> > > pidp-11/0a61e7d5-
>> ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/>>
>> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5-
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5-><https://
>> >groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5- <http://
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5->>
>> > > ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/0a61e7d5->>
>> > > ca86-4791-9f11-38d91dc1c8ddn%40googlegroups.com
>> > <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/>>?
>> > > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> > || on a psychedelic trip
>> > email:b...@softjar.se|| Reading murder books
>> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> Google
>> > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>> from it, send
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>> > --
>> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> > || on a psychedelic trip
>> > email:b...@softjar.se|| Reading murder books
>> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>> >
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>> --
>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> || on a psychedelic trip
>> email:b...@softjar.se|| Reading murder books
>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
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>> --
>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>> || on a psychedelic trip
>> email:b...@softjar.se|| Reading murder books
>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>
> --
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