2.11BSD terminal settings / stty shows 0 rows/0 columns after login

[vlai...@gmail.com]

Hi, not sure if i'm doing something wrong.

After login to the system (even telnet to localhost with sane setting for rows/columns) 

stty -a shows 0 rows 0 columns which leads to odd behaviour with any screen oriented 

command like more/vi etc...

I'm sort of assuming this is just the way it is but what's the smart way to fix that ? 

using 'tset' in your .login/.profile/.cshrc ? 

.. or is there a better option perhaps... 

ps. this is on 2.11BSD pl 451 - i think the latest pl behaves a little different.

 

br,

-V

[Martin Renters]

Patch 484 includes a fix to telnetd to set the rows/cols based on what the telnet client sends when you log in with telnet.

You can manually set the rows/cols using stty cols 85 rows 50 if you have a non-standard window size (80x24 is generally the default for most terminals).

Martin

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[Malcolm Ray]

If you're using a pl 451 image, you're making a lot of extra work for yourself!

The current patchlevel is 487!

Consider switching to the Johnny Bilquist image, which last time I looked was at pl 481.

Less work getting that up to date.

--

[vlai...@gmail.com]

so is the telnet on 2.11bsd 'broken then' ... this is pl487:

2.11 BSD UNIX (pdp11vm) (console)

login: root
erase, kill ^U, intr ^C
# stty -a
new tty, speed 9600 baud, 0 rows, 0 columns
even odd -raw -nl echo -tandem -tabs -cbreak -rtscts
crt: (crtbs crterase crtkill ctlecho) -tostop
-flusho -mdmbuf -litout -pass8 -nohang
-pendin decctlq -noflsh
erase   kill    intr    quit    start   stop    eof     brk     susp
^?      ^U      ^C      ^\      ^Q      ^S      ^D      <undef> ^Z
dsusp   rprnt   flush   werase  lnext
^Y      ^R      ^O      ^W      ^V
# tset
Erase is Delete
Kill is Ctrl-U
Interrupt is Ctrl-C
# tset
Erase is Delete
Kill is Ctrl-U
Interrupt is Ctrl-C
# tset
Erase is Delete
Kill is Ctrl-U
Interrupt is Ctrl-C
# stty -a
new tty, speed 9600 baud, 24 rows, 80 columns
even odd -raw -nl echo -tandem tabs -cbreak -rtscts
crt: (crtbs crterase crtkill ctlecho) -tostop
-flusho -mdmbuf -litout -pass8 -nohang
-pendin decctlq -noflsh
erase   kill    intr    quit    start   stop    eof     brk     susp
^?      ^U      ^C      ^\      ^Q      ^S      ^D      <undef> ^Z
dsusp   rprnt   flush   werase  lnext
^Y      ^R      ^O      ^W      ^V
# telnet localhost
Trying...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.


2.11 BSD UNIX (pdp11vm) (ptyp0)

login: root
Mar 24 12:33:04 pdp11vm March 24 12:33:04 login: ROOT LOGIN ON ttyp0 FROM localhost
erase, kill ^U, intr ^C
# stty -a
new tty, speed 38400 baud, 0 rows, 0 columns
even odd -raw -nl echo -tandem -tabs -cbreak -rtscts
crt: (crtbs crterase crtkill ctlecho) -tostop
-flusho -mdmbuf -litout -pass8 -nohang
-pendin decctlq -noflsh
erase   kill    intr    quit    start   stop    eof     brk     susp
^?      ^U      ^C      ^\      ^Q      ^S      ^D      <undef> ^Z
dsusp   rprnt   flush   werase  lnext
^Y      ^R      ^O      ^W      ^V
# head -1 /VERSION
Current Patch Level: 487

... telneting in with putty does set the rows/cols correctly (need to verify but i do not think 484 worked ok) 

br,

-V

ps. and no - i'm not using 451 - trying to figure out an easy way to upgrade if anyone is stuck at the pidp11 'default' 2.11 image...and can't figure out how to update the OS in place:)

[Martin Renters]

You are correct that the 2.11BSD patch level 487 telnet client does not send the window size information, but telnetd server will receive it from clients that do send it, like putty.

Martin

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/04a10f73-77b1-41eb-a0c9-0ad8f0505ff6n%40googlegroups.com.

[vlai...@gmail.com]

Thanks for that Martin , telnet with putty works ok... console wants to use 0rows/0columns ... but issuing a  tset does fix that until i get around to figuring out what i need to change :) 

br,

-V

[vlai...@gmail.com]

Are the 2.11BSD patches announced somewhere officially btw ? 

patch 487 includes passive mode for ftp , that will be very useful for anyone using the 211bsd+ pidp11 image / simh native nat trying to access an external ftp server.

-V

[Martin Renters]

The rows/cols being 0 isn’t all bad. I haven’t had any issues with it as things like more/vi will pick up the number of rows/col from the terminal definition which will generally be 80/24. As long as your window is that size everything works.

The 2.11BSD patches can be found at:

        ftp://ftp.dfupdate.se/pub/pdp11/2.11BSD

        https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UCB/2.11BSD/Patches/

        ftp://ftp.2bsd.com/2.11BSD

        http://www.2bsd.com/2.11BSD

Martin

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/16a789ed-abb5-45f0-bfde-0db1e8e06a10n%40googlegroups.com.

[Ville Laitinen]

That's true too about 0/0 row/col on pl487 vi at least actually does work ok on the console. 

... did not even think of trying without issuing a tset on logon as it has not been working (for me) earlier..

I'm fully aware where the patches can be found, it's just that they are like the spanish inquisition. 

br,

-V

[Johnny Billquist]

Yeah, the 2.11BSD telnet client is "broken", in the sense that it
actually don't send the size information. Maybe another thing to fix one
of these days. :-)

Johnny

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--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

[Johnny Billquist]

Do I have a 2.11BSD image? I had forgotten. Where did I place that? I
should update it to the latest patch level in this case.

Johnny

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[Johnny Billquist]

Hi.

On 2025-03-24 23:02, vlai...@gmail.com wrote:

> Are the 2.11BSD patches announced somewhere officially btw ?

No, they aren't. I could start announcing them here, if people would
want that.

> patch 487 includes passive mode for ftp , that will be very useful for
> anyone using the 211bsd+ pidp11 image / simh native nat trying to access
> an external ftp server.

Yeah. Also, I've had one report of login stop working on dz lines after
patch 487 was applied. If anyone else get this, could they please reach
out to me? I've not been able to reproduce that myself.

Johnny

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[Malcolm Ray]

Oops, sorry, I was thinking of the Chase Covello image!

[terry-...@glaver.org]

System: PL487, 2BSD rebooted just in case it mattered. /etc/ttys and /etc/gettytab unmodified from the distribution versions.

Telnet from WRQ (Attachmate, Micro Focus, whatever) Reflection with my terminal type set in the emulator to VT102 (with the expected 80 x 24 terminal size) gives:

# stty -a
new tty, speed 38400 baud, 33 rows, 80 columns

even odd -raw -nl echo -tandem -tabs -cbreak -rtscts
crt: (crtbs crterase crtkill ctlecho) -tostop
-flusho -mdmbuf -litout -pass8 -nohang
-pendin decctlq -noflsh
erase   kill    intr    quit    start   stop    eof     brk     susp    
^?      ^U      ^C      ^\      ^Q      ^S      ^D      <undef> ^Z      
dsusp   rprnt   flush   werase  lnext   
^Y      ^R      ^O      ^W      ^V      

It certainly doesn't have 33 rows. Any idea where it is getting that from?

The same thing happens on the "console" port on the Raspberry Pi.

[Martin Renters]

Do you have an stty rows 33 in your .profile perhaps?

I just tried Reflection on my iPad and it accurately sets the rows and columns.

Martin

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 24, 2025, at 9:05 PM, terry-...@glaver.org <terry-...@glaver.org> wrote:

System: PL487, 2BSD rebooted just in case it mattered. /etc/ttys and /etc/gettytab unmodified from the distribution versions.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/4fad3bd2-ce7f-4bbb-873f-79916a8d98a9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Johnny Billquist]

That would be coming from your telnet client now.

Johnny

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[terry-...@glaver.org]

On Monday, March 24, 2025 at 9:26:34 PM UTC-4 Martin Renters wrote:

Do you have an stty rows 33 in your .profile perhaps?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I do! I didn't put it there, it must have been from

whatever distribution I started from. I downloaded it from an answer I got

from here when someone asked "Where can I get a reasonably up-to-date

2BSD image?"

# ls -l .profile
-rw-r--r--  1 root          187 Nov 27  2021 .profile

I wonder what other non-standard things are lurking in the image I down-

loaded?

I wonder if I should start over with a known "clean" 2BSD image (preferably

one at a somewhat recent patch level) and go from there. Any suggestions

for where to find such a thing?

[Ville Laitinen]

just checked what 

https://github.com/chasecovello/211bsd-pidp11 

has .. and yes, that seems to set 'stty rows 33' in .profile...

that one is currently at pl481 so it would be a reasonably new one... and should not have too many things changed.

It's also probably the only updated image around.

br,

-Ville

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[terry-...@glaver.org]

On Tuesday, March 25, 2025 at 2:56:02 PM UTC-4 vlai...@gmail.com wrote:

just checked what 

https://github.com/chasecovello/211bsd-pidp11 

has .. and yes, that seems to set 'stty rows 33' in .profile...

that one is currently at pl481 so it would be a reasonably new one... and should not have too many things changed.

It's also probably the only updated image around.

My changes at this point are mostly limited to the kernel config and my network setup (I'm moving it over to 4 emulated

RM05's to match actual hardware I ran 2BSD on back in the day.

I'll re-grab that image and apply the follow-on updates to make it current. I'll also open a GitHub issue to ask the project

owner what other changes have been made to the "out-of-the-box" (or should that be "off-the-tape") installation so I

know what to look for.

[Ville Laitinen]

if you want to go the long way with install from tape Aaron Jackson has a fairly recent versions available

https://github.com/AaronJackson/2.11BSD-Distribution-Builder

br,

-V

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