Old Raspberry Pi

166 views
Skip to first unread message

Bill B

unread,
Apr 23, 2023, 7:47:27 PM4/23/23
to [PiDP-11]
First post. Really interested (but a little scared) in building one of these. Started my career operating 2 PDP/11/70s (RSTS/E) With CDC 9766 (300MB) disks, went on to programming/administrating. Saw this front panel on a daily basis. No soldering experience so I've been looking at soldering tutorials and some inexpensive kits to practice on. I have an old Raspberry Pi Model B+ (bought end of 2014), I know it's not recommended but would it be of any use for testing? Would probably later upgrade to a Raspberry Pi 3 B+, because of price and availability.

timr...@gmail.com

unread,
Apr 23, 2023, 10:40:51 PM4/23/23
to [PiDP-11]
I can't comment on the older RasPi.  I would think it would work, but might be really slow.  But practicing your soldering skills on small projects and having a good soldering iron will help immensely.  But it's really not that hard to assemble.

Peter Ekstrom

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 8:25:58 AM4/24/23
to [PiDP-11]
The older Raspberry Pi B+ has fewer GPIO pins than the newer ones. I believe it has 26 pins while the newer ones have 40 pins. So your old one won't have enough pins to drive the PiDP-11 board.
But for testing the software it should work, although it may be a little slow depending on what you are looking to run on it.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/6611443c-c3ef-40d9-8e65-bd925134d3adn%40googlegroups.com.

Clem Cole

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 10:44:43 AM4/24/23
to Bill B, [PiDP-11]
below... you are asking a couple of questions - let me try to break them down separately.

On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 7:47 PM Bill B <bill...@gmail.com> wrote:
First post. Really interested (but a little scared) in building one of these. Started my career operating 2 PDP/11/70s (RSTS/E) With CDC 9766 (300MB) disks, went on to programming/administrating. Saw this front panel on a daily basis.
Awesome  -- I would recommend going to opensimh.org and downloading and building the PDP-11 simulator for your PC.  This is the core SW that Oscar is using in his kit.  In this manner, you can get used to running RSTS (or any other supported OS) in the emulated environment.  You can get past the newbie questions of how do I move my data between the emulated system and the host, different terminal emulators of the same configurations, such as adding serial ports, remote prints, etc...  Note: Understand there are a number of small ways things can "go south" / are confusing, so check the archives of SIMH mailing list (such less this) and its likely your question has already been answered.   

No soldering experience so I've been looking at soldering tutorials and some inexpensive kits to practice on.
Excellent -- if you look at places like Banggood.com and Aliexpress.com you'll find numerous cheap kits - such as clocks, and blinky toys for a few dollars.  Oscar's kit is not terribly difficult, but I would not make it a first kit.  Two small recommendations - invest in a good soldering iron such as a Weller WLC-100 or similar (and keep that tip clean).  Also get good solder (the thinner it is the more expensive it will be, but is likely to be easier to use - particularly for an inexperienced user).
 
I have an old Raspberry Pi Model B+ (bought end of 2014), I know it's not recommended but would it be of any use for testing?
You can run simh on it, although that is likely to be slower than your PC.
The Original RPI and the Model B used a 26 pin connector:
raspberry-pi-rev2-gpio-pinout-2568515518.jpg
Oscar is using  the newer 40 pin connector that was introduced with later models:
R-Pi-3-B-Pinout-711431806.jpg

Would probably later upgrade to a Raspberry Pi 3 B+, because of price and availability.
That will work fine.  I have one of Oscar's kits running on an RPI-Zero - which is more than adequate from an SW standpoint. That said, invest in a good power supply. and a good-quality SD card.  Many of the failures that have been reported by new users often come back to a weak power supply or a failing SD card.

Good luck and have fun.

Neal G.

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 10:53:53 AM4/24/23
to [PiDP-11]
The Pi I used for the kit I build in 2019, reports itself as "Raspberry Pi 2 Model B Rev 1.1"; it works fine.

Clem Cole

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 11:20:09 AM4/24/23
to Neal G., [PiDP-11]
Be careful -- an RPi (A) is different from an RPi B which is also different from an RPiB+ which is different from an RPi2 much less RPi2B+ etc ...


Model A and B use a 26-pin connector -- as to when they brought out the 40-pin connector, I have forgotten.  But that is the key to check, if you have a older version with a 26 pin connector, that is not going to work.  

My earlier email had pictures of the two different connectors.
You notice he is using Pin 29 (G5), Pin 31 (G6), P35 (G19), Pin 37 (G26), Pin 32 (G12), Pin 36 (G16), Pin 38 (G20), Pin 40 (G21)



On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 10:53 AM Neal G. <cven...@earthlink.net> wrote:
The Pi I used for the kit I build in 2019, reports itself as "Raspberry Pi 2 Model B Rev 1.1"; it works fine.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.

Clem Cole

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 11:54:24 AM4/24/23
to [PiDP-11]
Again - A != A+ as a Model 1 != 2 != 3 != 4, but you got me curious.  As I said, I had forgotten when the 40-pin connector was introduced.


A powerful feature of the Raspberry Pi is the row of GPIO (general-purpose input/output) pins along the top edge of the board. A 40-pin GPIO header is found on all current Raspberry Pi boards (unpopulated on Raspberry Pi Zero, Raspberry Pi Zero W and Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W). Prior to the Raspberry Pi 1 Model B+ (2014), boards comprised a shorter 26-pin header. The GPIO header on all boards (including the Raspberry Pi 400) have a 0.1" (2.54mm) pin pitch.

I will parse to mean that the RPiB+ made in 2014 - does indeed have a 40-pin header (as I said, it's the connector that matters),  2014 board sounds like it should work;  i.e. any RPi designed and delivered post the 2014 RPiB+ should be fine, although my comments about power and SD cards.    


Jonathan Morton

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 12:33:53 PM4/24/23
to Clem Cole, [PiDP-11]
> On 24 Apr, 2023, at 6:53 pm, Clem Cole <cl...@ccc.com> wrote:
>
> I will parse to mean that the RPiB+ made in 2014 - does indeed have a 40-pin header (as I said, it's the connector that matters), 2014 board sounds like it should work; i.e. any RPi designed and delivered post the 2014 RPiB+ should be fine, although my comments about power and SD cards.

Since OP has his unit in hand, it should be straightforward for him to just count the pins. It'll either be two rows of 13 or two rows of 20; easy to tell apart.

Second and third the emphasis on getting a good SD card. The early RPi models used full-size cards, which may be easier to find in the Class 6 guise (which unlike Class 10 has a guarantee for random-write performance) than the modern Class A1 or A3 rating (which is aimed at "application" performance). Indeed early RPi models might have compatibility problems with the higher-performance SD cards.

With that said, most Micro-SD cards now come with an adapter so they can be used as full-size cards too. My present rule of thumb is to go for a reputable brand name (eg. SanDisk or Samsung) with at least an A1 rating *and* where they've bothered to use more than one dye colour on the card itself (so SanDisk Ultra, Extreme, and Extreme Pro are all fine, but SanDisk Edge isn't - from personal experience - even though it has a Class A1 rating).

- Jonathan Morton

Bill B

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 3:50:27 PM4/24/23
to [PiDP-11]
Thanks for everyone's input. Yes the 2014 B+ has 40 pins (here it is). So maybe it will limp along, until I can upgrade. Probably slow but worth a try.
I've run RSTS/E in SIMH on my Linux desktop for a few years. But haven't tried on the Pi yet. Guess I'll try that 1st.

Thanks again!

Raspberry Pi Model B+(crop).jpg

Tom Lake

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 4:08:13 PM4/24/23
to [PiDP-11]
I have eight users running DEC BASIC Plus under RSTS-E 10.1 using the same model Pi you've pictured. It's not underpowered at all!

Kim Colwell

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 9:26:15 PM4/24/23
to Tom Lake, [PiDP-11]

Tom,

 

This is very interesting to me … I have a Pi 3B+ running a PiDP-11/70 (kit from Oskar) – how do I get DEC BASIC Plus and run it on the PiDP-11 RSTS/E ??

 

Thanks!

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Tom Lake
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2023 3:08 PM
To: [PiDP-11]
Subject: Re: [PiDP-11] Old Raspberry Pi

 

I have eight users running DEC BASIC Plus under RSTS-E 10.1 using the same model Pi you've pictured. It's not underpowered at all!

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 3:50:27 PM UTC-4 bill...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for everyone's input. Yes the 2014 B+ has 40 pins (here it is). So maybe it will limp along, until I can upgrade. Probably slow but worth a try.

I've run RSTS/E in SIMH on my Linux desktop for a few years. But haven't tried on the Pi yet. Guess I'll try that 1st.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 12:33:53 PM UTC-4 chrom...@gmail.com wrote:

> On 24 Apr, 2023, at 6:53 pm, Clem Cole <cl...@ccc.com> wrote:
>
> I will parse to mean that the RPiB+ made in 2014 - does indeed have a 40-pin header (as I said, it's the connector that matters), 2014 board sounds like it should work; i.e. any RPi designed and delivered post the 2014 RPiB+ should be fine, although my comments about power and SD cards.

Since OP has his unit in hand, it should be straightforward for him to just count the pins. It'll either be two rows of 13 or two rows of 20; easy to tell apart.

Second and third the emphasis on getting a good SD card. The early RPi models used full-size cards, which may be easier to find in the Class 6 guise (which unlike Class 10 has a guarantee for random-write performance) than the modern Class A1 or A3 rating (which is aimed at "application" performance). Indeed early RPi models might have compatibility problems with the higher-performance SD cards.

With that said, most Micro-SD cards now come with an adapter so they can be used as full-size cards too. My present rule of thumb is to go for a reputable brand name (eg. SanDisk or Samsung) with at least an A1 rating *and* where they've bothered to use more than one dye colour on the card itself (so SanDisk Ultra, Extreme, and Extreme Pro are all fine, but SanDisk Edge isn't - from personal experience - even though it has a Class A1 rating).

- Jonathan Morton

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.

Johnny Billquist

unread,
Apr 24, 2023, 9:34:17 PM4/24/23
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Just install RSTS/E. BASIC+ is always included. It is the standard
system language for RSTS/E.

Johnny

On 2023-04-25 03:26, Kim Colwell wrote:
> Tom,
>
> This is very interesting to me … I have a Pi 3B+ running a PiDP-11/70
> (kit from Oskar) – how do I get DEC BASIC Plus and run it on the PiDP-11
> RSTS/E ??
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>
> *From: *Tom Lake <mailto:toml...@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, April 24, 2023 3:08 PM
> *To: *[PiDP-11] <mailto:pid...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [PiDP-11] Old Raspberry Pi
>
> I have eight users running DEC BASIC Plus under RSTS-E 10.1 using the
> same model Pi you've pictured. It's not underpowered at all!
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 3:50:27 PM UTC-4 bill...@gmail.comwrote:
>
> Thanks for everyone's input. Yes the 2014 B+ has 40 pins (here it
> is). So maybe it will limp along, until I can upgrade. Probably slow
> but worth a try.
>
> I've run RSTS/E in SIMH on my Linux desktop for a few years. But
> haven't tried on the Pi yet. Guess I'll try that 1st.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/eed2cb2c-fb03-43dc-b7ba-42cf08490da4n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/eed2cb2c-fb03-43dc-b7ba-42cf08490da4n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/DDBFDEEC-6307-40C4-BB64-69AF3F39EC16%40hxcore.ol <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/DDBFDEEC-6307-40C4-BB64-69AF3F39EC16%40hxcore.ol?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Clem Cole

unread,
Apr 25, 2023, 9:25:53 AM4/25/23
to Kim Colwell, [PiDP-11]
Kim,

On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 9:26 PM Kim Colwell <kcolw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tom,

 

This is very interesting to me … I have a Pi 3B+ running a PiDP-11/70 (kit from Oskar) – how do I get DEC BASIC Plus and run it on the PiDP-11 RSTS/E ??

 

Thanks!

You probably built your kit before Oscar added the section that allows you to boot a few different PDP-11 System Environments.
 
Download the latest manual:  http://pidp.net/pidp11/PiDP-11_Manual.odt
Also read, https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-11-building-instructions "Section 1" preparing your Pi and make a new SD card.

If you boot RSTS7 (0002 on the switches) - it should 'just run'  BASIC Plus.
This URL might offer you some hints after you boot the system: https://docslib.org/doc/12361457/rsts-e-system-users-guide

Have fun,

Bill B

unread,
Apr 25, 2023, 1:09:20 PM4/25/23
to [PiDP-11]
Tom Lake,

Just curious...does your model B+ use microSD? Mine does. But this site raspians.com/raspberry-pi-models-comparison/ says it doesn't.

Tom Lake

unread,
Apr 25, 2023, 2:04:32 PM4/25/23
to Bill B, [PiDP-11]

Yes, mine uses microSD cards, not full-sized.

 

Tom L

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Bill B
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2023 1:09 PM
To: [PiDP-11]
Subject: Re: [PiDP-11] Old Raspberry Pi

 

Tom Lake,

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/pidp-11/PYOZOrPx9hE/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/fed77a81-3d8a-450e-a214-05f211f3feb9n%40googlegroups.com.

 

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages