Issue with M8190 CPU board
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Paulo Rebordão
Nov 29, 2024, 1:44:31 PM11/29/24
to [PiDP-11]
I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if anyone here can help...
I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC processor. The board is on a BA213 backplane.
Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel design taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
When I first powered it, the green Led on the CPU came on together with the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error code of octal 77.
This could mean:
- Halt condition (NOT)
- Bad Power supply (NOT)
- Terminator is faulty
- Grant card not installed
I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many other points of possible failure.
In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU board sits on slot 1 and there's no other board present.
Thank you
Johnny Billquist
Nov 29, 2024, 6:59:33 PM11/29/24
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Qbus generally do not need any grant cards as long as all cards that are
installed are next to each other with no empty spaces between.
Grant cards are only needed if you do have some empty spaces.
Johnny
On 2024-11-29 19:44, Paulo Rebordão wrote:
> I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if anyone here can help...
>
> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC processor. The
> board is on a BA213 backplane.
> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel design
> taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
> Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
>
> When I first powered it, the green Led on the CPU came on together with
> the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
>
> According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error code of octal 77.
> This could mean:
>
> * Halt condition (NOT)
> * Bad Power supply (NOT)
> * Terminator is faulty
> * Grant card not installed
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
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> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
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> pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d-a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d-
> a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
installed are next to each other with no empty spaces between.
Grant cards are only needed if you do have some empty spaces.
Johnny
On 2024-11-29 19:44, Paulo Rebordão wrote:
> I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if anyone here can help...
>
> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC processor. The
> board is on a BA213 backplane.
> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel design
> taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
> Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
>
> When I first powered it, the green Led on the CPU came on together with
> the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
>
> According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error code of octal 77.
> This could mean:
>
> * Bad Power supply (NOT)
> * Terminator is faulty
> * Grant card not installed
>
> I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many other points
> of possible failure.
>
> In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU board sits on
> slot 1 and there's no other board present.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> --
> I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many other points
> of possible failure.
>
> In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU board sits on
> slot 1 and there's no other board present.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d-a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d-
> a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Paulo Rebordão
Nov 30, 2024, 7:03:56 AM11/30/24
to donald forsyth, [PiDP-11]
Some more info on what I'm trying to do...The idea was to start with a minimal PDP/LSI-11 system at minimal cost.
To that aim I acquired the M8190 board, the -AC processor and a BA213 backplane. Power is provided from a PC ATX power supply and not the real BA213 supply.
I have a serial cable to connect the board to a terminal but I haven't even tried it as I'm still stuck on octal 77, so I don't think there's any terminal output at this time.
After getting the CPU to boot I can run the diagnostics from ODT. I know that I will not be able to do anything else at that point.
The next step would be to buy a QBone card, thus getting access to memory, disk and connectivity.
Later, some additional boards will be acquired.
From another forum (VCF), I got feedback that the problem might be the crystal. M8190 has a 18Mhz crystal and the -AC processor is rated for 15Mhz.
So I think I'll start by changing the crystal and see how it goes...
Paulo Rebordão
On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 10:04 AM donald forsyth <don...@lue-forsyth.co.uk> wrote:
Paulo,The M8190 will not boot without memory installed and perhaps also a terminator depending on the backplane.Do you have a console connected to the 10pin connector on the M8190?I took all the boards out of mine except the M8190 and the attached photos show what happened. I have also attached a photo of what you will see on the console if the system boots properly - as you can see the first thing the CPU does is do a 9 step memory test before it will boot the OS.thanksdonald
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Johnny Billquist
Nov 30, 2024, 10:56:19 AM11/30/24
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Eh? I would *not* change the chrystal. Whatever is on the board is
probably fine. It most likely have been run before.
My first thing would be to verify that you actually have all the
voltages required, and at sufficient amperage.
The fact that you have a rather non-standard setup for power is really
the more obvious place to start looking.
And 77 means "CPU or halt switch". I hope you have connected the cable
to the front panel, and the HALT switch is not active.
Johnny
> IMG_9468.jpgIMG_9470.jpg
> avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657>
probably fine. It most likely have been run before.
My first thing would be to verify that you actually have all the
voltages required, and at sufficient amperage.
The fact that you have a rather non-standard setup for power is really
the more obvious place to start looking.
And 77 means "CPU or halt switch". I hope you have connected the cable
to the front panel, and the HALT switch is not active.
Johnny
> <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if anyone here can
> help...
>
> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC processor. The
> board is on a BA213 backplane.
> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel design
> taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657 <https://
>
> I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if anyone here can
> help...
>
> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC processor. The
> board is on a BA213 backplane.
> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel design
> avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657>
> Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
>
> When I first powered it, the green Led on the CPU came on together
> with the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
>
> According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error code of
> octal 77.
> This could mean:
>
>
> When I first powered it, the green Led on the CPU came on together
> with the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
>
> According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error code of
> octal 77.
> This could mean:
>
> * Halt condition (NOT)
> * Bad Power supply (NOT)
> * Terminator is faulty
> * Grant card not installed
> * Bad Power supply (NOT)
> * Terminator is faulty
>
> I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many other
> points of possible failure.
>
> In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU board sits
> on slot 1 and there's no other board present.
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many other
> points of possible failure.
>
> In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU board sits
> on slot 1 and there's no other board present.
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
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> a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
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> a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
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Peter Ekstrom
Nov 30, 2024, 2:27:42 PM11/30/24
to [PiDP-11]
I have the same setup for my 11/23+. I did modify the arduino code a bit so mine has a reset, halt/run and power switch. I set mine up to have a jumper on the circuit board for the LTC. I find the state-machine a little odd for the run/halt switch. If you flip it to ‘run’, and then flip the power on, it doesn’t register the ‘run’ mode. I have to flip both run and power at the same time. Not sure if you have tried that? Otherwise the cpu remains in halt mode.
And I agree with Johnny, don’t mess with the crystal until you are 100% sure you have tried everything else. It seems a bit odd to me that it would need a different one.
-Peter
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Paulo Rebordão
Nov 30, 2024, 3:06:50 PM11/30/24
to Peter Ekstrom, [PiDP-11]
Hi Peter
I've tried both switches at the same time but no change.
The reason I'm thinking of the crystal is because I have a processor (the AC) rated for 15Mhz on a board with a 18Mhz crystal.
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Johnny Billquist
Nov 30, 2024, 6:39:19 PM11/30/24
to pid...@googlegroups.com
The reason the -AC was shipped with 15MHz was because the J11 wasn't
reliable at higher frequencies at the time. But that was for the general
case. Individual ones would possible run very fine at higher
frequencies. And also, if they fail, it's not that they won't run at
all, but they might stop, or behave incorrectly as they heat up.
When initially powered up, even if it happened to be a marginal chip, it
would run fine for a while. But if an 18MHz crystal have been mounted on
the board, I would definitely assume it works well enough. And if the
diagnostics don't move beyond 77, I would assume there is something else
wrong. Either some missing power, or other missing signal on the
backplane that leads to the CPU never actually starting up.
Johnny
On 2024-11-30 21:06, Paulo Rebordão wrote:
> Hi Peter
>
> I've tried both switches at the same time but no change.
>
> The reason I'm thinking of the crystal is because I have a processor
> (the AC) rated for 15Mhz on a board with a 18Mhz crystal.
>
>
> A sábado, 30/11/2024, 19:27, Peter Ekstrom <epek...@gmail.com
> <mailto:epek...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
> > Some more info on what I'm trying to do...The ideawas to
> > forsyth.co.uk <http://forsyth.co.uk> <mailto:donald@lue-
> > avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657 <http://avitech.com.au/?
> > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pidp-11%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> > pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d-
> a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d- <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d->
> > a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com?
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> > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:pidp-11%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> >
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> aaf4-e446068ef484%40softjar.se>.
>
> --
> topic/pidp-11/Asm2MFiFbsQ/unsubscribe>.
reliable at higher frequencies at the time. But that was for the general
case. Individual ones would possible run very fine at higher
frequencies. And also, if they fail, it's not that they won't run at
all, but they might stop, or behave incorrectly as they heat up.
When initially powered up, even if it happened to be a marginal chip, it
would run fine for a while. But if an 18MHz crystal have been mounted on
the board, I would definitely assume it works well enough. And if the
diagnostics don't move beyond 77, I would assume there is something else
wrong. Either some missing power, or other missing signal on the
backplane that leads to the CPU never actually starting up.
Johnny
On 2024-11-30 21:06, Paulo Rebordão wrote:
> Hi Peter
>
> I've tried both switches at the same time but no change.
>
> The reason I'm thinking of the crystal is because I have a processor
> (the AC) rated for 15Mhz on a board with a 18Mhz crystal.
>
>
> A sábado, 30/11/2024, 19:27, Peter Ekstrom <epek...@gmail.com
> forsyth.co.uk <mailto:don...@lue-forsyth.co.uk>>> wrote:
> >
> > Paulo,
> >
> > The M8190 will not boot without memory installed and
> perhaps also a
> > terminator depending on the backplane.
> >
> > Do you have a console connected to the 10pin connector on
> the M8190?
> >
> > I took all the boards out of mine except the M8190 and
> the attached
> > photos show what happened. I have also attached a photo
> of what you
> > will see on the console if the system boots properly - as
> you can
> > see the first thing the CPU does is do a 9 step memory
> test before
> > it will boot the OS.
> >
> > thanks
> > donald
> >
> > IMG_9468.jpgIMG_9470.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > IMG_9467.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 29 Nov 2024, at 18:44, Paulo Rebordão
> <pjreb...@gmail.com <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com
> >
> > Paulo,
> >
> > The M8190 will not boot without memory installed and
> perhaps also a
> > terminator depending on the backplane.
> >
> > Do you have a console connected to the 10pin connector on
> the M8190?
> >
> > I took all the boards out of mine except the M8190 and
> the attached
> > photos show what happened. I have also attached a photo
> of what you
> > will see on the console if the system boots properly - as
> you can
> > see the first thing the CPU does is do a 9 step memory
> test before
> > it will boot the OS.
> >
> > thanks
> > donald
> >
> > IMG_9468.jpgIMG_9470.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > IMG_9467.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 29 Nov 2024, at 18:44, Paulo Rebordão
> <pjreb...@gmail.com <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if
> anyone here can
> > help...
> >
> > I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC
> processor. The
> > board is on a BA213 backplane.
> > Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front
> panel design
> > taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
> <https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657> <https://
> >
> > I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if
> anyone here can
> > help...
> >
> > I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC
> processor. The
> > board is on a BA213 backplane.
> > Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front
> panel design
> > taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
> > avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657 <http://avitech.com.au/?
> page_id=1657>>
> > Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
> >
> > When I first powered it, the green Led onthe CPU came on
> > Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
> >
> together
> > with the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
> >
> > According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error
> code of
> > octal 77.
> > This could mean:
> >
> > * Halt condition (NOT)
> > * Bad Power supply (NOT)
> > * Terminator is faulty
> > * Grant card not installed
> >
> > I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many
> other
> > points of possible failure.
> >
> > In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU
> board sits
> > on slot 1 and there's no other board present.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you aresubscribed to
> > with the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
> >
> > According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error
> code of
> > octal 77.
> > This could mean:
> >
> > * Halt condition (NOT)
> > * Bad Power supply (NOT)
> > * Terminator is faulty
> > * Grant card not installed
> >
> > I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many
> other
> > points of possible failure.
> >
> > In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU
> board sits
> > on slot 1 and there's no other board present.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> the Google
> > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
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>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se <mailto:b...@softjar.se> ||
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
> --
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Mark Matlock
Nov 30, 2024, 9:00:50 PM11/30/24
to Paulo Rebordão, [PiDP-11]
I spent a good bit of time figuring out an octal error code of 77 on an 11/84 that uses the same CPU board (M8190-AE).
It was in a minimal configuration like yours. What caused it was no load on the -12V power of the PSU. When I obtained and
used a M7556 minimal load card for an 11/84 the problem went away.
The way to tell if this type of thing is happening is to measure voltage on the console serial port. Pin 2 of the console
RS-232 port should be -12V. If it is not then there is not enough of a load on the power supply to get the -12V running.
Without memory or a grant card you should get some output on the console but you won’t if it can’t get +12V/-12V and
the only indication is the octal 77 on the LED display.
Good luck,
Mark
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donald forsyth
Nov 30, 2024, 9:01:03 PM11/30/24
to Paulo Rebordão, [PiDP-11]
Paulo,
The M8190 will not boot without memory installed and perhaps also a terminator depending on the backplane.
Do you have a console connected to the 10pin connector on the M8190?
I took all the boards out of mine except the M8190 and the attached photos show what happened. I have also attached a photo of what you will see on the console if the system boots properly - as you can see the first thing the CPU does is do a 9 step memory test before it will boot the OS.
thanks
donald
Donald Forsyth
Nov 30, 2024, 9:01:08 PM11/30/24
to Paulo Rebordão, pid...@googlegroups.com
Paulo,
If you look at my photos, you will see you will get console output with only the cpu installed. So you should connect the terminal first and see what output you get. Then you can try your other changes.
Thanks
Some more info on what I'm trying to do...The idea was to start with a minimal PDP/LSI-11 system at minimal cost.To that aim I acquired the M8190 board, the -AC processor and a BA213 backplane. Power is provided from a PC ATX power supply and not the real BA213 supply.I have a serial cable to connect the board to a terminal but I haven't even tried it as I'm still stuck on octal 77, so I don't think there's any terminal output at this time.After getting the CPU to boot I can run the diagnostics from ODT. I know that I will not be able to do anything else at that point.The next step would be to buy a QBone card, thus getting access to memory, disk and connectivity.Later, some additional boards will be acquired.From another forum (VCF), I got feedback that the problem might be the crystal. M8190 has a 18Mhz crystal and the -AC processor is rated for 15Mhz.So I think I'll start by changing the crystal and see how it goes...Paulo Rebordão
On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 10:04 AM donald forsyth <don...@lue-forsyth.co.uk> wrote:
Paulo,The M8190 will not boot without memory installed and perhaps also a terminator depending on the backplane.Do you have a console connected to the 10pin connector on the M8190?I took all the boards out of mine except the M8190 and the attached photos show what happened. I have also attached a photo of what you will see on the console if the system boots properly - as you can see the first thing the CPU does is do a 9 step memory test before it will boot the OS.thanksdonald
<IMG_9468.jpg><IMG_9470.jpg>
Peter Long
Nov 30, 2024, 9:52:53 PM11/30/24
to Johnny Billquist, pid...@googlegroups.com
Johnny
We used to (early 1980's) run our VAX 11/780's "set clock fast" so that and with the appropriate boot time Kernel patch to add a smaller number to the ToD clock - we basically got an extra free VAX out of the ten VAXen we had 
Peter
On 2024-11-30 13:03, Paulo Rebordão wrote:
> Some more info on what I'm trying to do...The ideawas to
> On Sat, Nov 30, 2024 at 10:04 AM donald forsyth <donald@lue-
> forsyth.co.uk <http://forsyth.co.uk> <mailto:donald@lue-
forsyth.co.uk <mailto:don...@lue-forsyth.co.uk>>> wrote:
>
> Paulo,
>
> The M8190 will not boot without memory installed and
perhaps also a
> terminator depending on the backplane.
>
> Do you have a console connected to the 10pin connector on
the M8190?
>
> I took all the boards out of mine except the M8190 and
the attached
> photos show what happened. I have also attached a photo
of what you
> will see on the console if the system boots properly - as
you can
> see the first thing the CPU does is do a 9 step memory
test before
> it will boot the OS.
>
> thanks
> donald
>
> IMG_9468.jpgIMG_9470.jpg
>
>
>
> IMG_9467.jpg
>
>
>
>
> On 29 Nov 2024, at 18:44, Paulo Rebordão
<pjreb...@gmail.com <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>
> <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com
<mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if
anyone here can
> help...
>
> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC
processor. The
> board is on a BA213 backplane.
> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front
panel design
> taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
<https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657> <https://
> avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657 <http://avitech.com.au/?
page_id=1657>>
> Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
>
> When I first powered it, the green Led onthe CPU came on
together
> with the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
>
> According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error
code of
> octal 77.
> This could mean:
>
> * Halt condition (NOT)
> * Bad Power supply (NOT)
> * Terminator is faulty
> * Grant card not installed
>
> I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many
other
> points of possible failure.
>
> In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU
board sits
> on slot 1 and there's no other board present.
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
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Johnny Billquist
Nov 30, 2024, 11:29:13 PM11/30/24
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Well, the problem is that as you showed in your photos - if there are no
memory, you stop at self test 53.
Paulo is not getting past 77, so he's not at all getting to where you
are. Basically, he is not getting anywhere. The CPU don't even start
executing.
Johnny
>> b76d-a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com?
>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/E4CF7852-FC4D-49AD-B981-
> B8AAA4144318%40lue-forsyth.co.uk?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
memory, you stop at self test 53.
Paulo is not getting past 77, so he's not at all getting to where you
are. Basically, he is not getting anywhere. The CPU don't even start
executing.
Johnny
>> <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if anyone here
>> can help...
>>
>> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC processor.
>> The board is on a BA213 backplane.
>> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel
>> design taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
>> <https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657>
>> Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
>>
>> When I first powered it, the green Led on the CPU came on together
>> with the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
>>
>> According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error code of
>> octal 77.
>> This could mean:
>>
>>
>> I have an issue with real DEC hardware, not sure if anyone here
>> can help...
>>
>> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC processor.
>> The board is on a BA213 backplane.
>> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel
>> design taken from here https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
>> <https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657>
>> Every signal from it was checked before the final test.
>>
>> When I first powered it, the green Led on the CPU came on together
>> with the 6 red Leds and it stayed that way.
>>
>> According to documentation, the 6 red Leds mean an error code of
>> octal 77.
>> This could mean:
>>
>> * Halt condition (NOT)
>> * Bad Power supply (NOT)
>> * Terminator is faulty
>> * Grant card not installed
>> * Bad Power supply (NOT)
>> * Terminator is faulty
>>
>> I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many other
>> points of possible failure.
>>
>> In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU board
>> sits on slot 1 and there's no other board present.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>>
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>> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
>> I'm more inclined to the last 2, despite there being many other
>> points of possible failure.
>>
>> In particular, do I need a grant card installed ? The CPU board
>> sits on slot 1 and there's no other board present.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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donald forsyth
Dec 1, 2024, 9:45:23 PM12/1/24
to Johnny Billquist, pid...@googlegroups.com
yes, i realise that. I suspect as you have said that the halt signal from the avitech box is not clearing. I built one of those and never managed to get it to work, so I built an alternative in TTL logic and after that all was well.
thanks
donald
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donald forsyth
Dec 1, 2024, 9:45:27 PM12/1/24
to Johnny Billquist, pid...@googlegroups.com
of course if Paulo gets a Qbone as he plans to do, then that will clear the all the signals and supply the LTC, then all should be good. Then he doesn’t need the avitech box.
Paulo Rebordão
Dec 2, 2024, 4:27:42 AM12/2/24
to [PiDP-11]
I wasn't aware the Qbone would also supply the necessary signals... also BDCOK and BPOK ?
However, before commiting to the Qbone, I wanted to check if my M8190 was ok.
I'll be looking at HALT before doing anyhing else.
Paulo Rebordão
Dec 2, 2024, 8:22:55 AM12/2/24
to [PiDP-11]
Just checked the Halt line. After the power stabilizes it goes HIGH and remains so.
So that doesn't seem to be the issue.
Johnny Billquist
Dec 2, 2024, 12:04:05 PM12/2/24
to pid...@googlegroups.com
Well, here are a couple of thoughts...
Check W10. If that jumper isn't unstalled, you do not have a CPU clock.
BDCOK H should be enabled on the bus once the power supply is providing
a stable power at the proper levels.
BPOK H should be enabled at all times. When that goes low, the CPU will
generate an NMI power fail interrupt.
BHALT L should be high, and you should not have a break coming on the
serial port. Both are sources for the CPU getting to HALT.
Looking further, I found the power up sequence description on page 6-20
of the manual for the KDJ11-B.
Basically:
1. Logic associated with the power supply negates BDCOK H during
power-up and asserts BDCOK H 3 ms (minimum) after DC power is restored
to voltages within specifications.
2. The processor asserts BINIT L after receiving nominal power and
negates BINIT L 0 ns (minimum) after the assertion of BDCOK H.
3. Logic associated with the power supply negates BPOK H during power up
and asserts BPOK H 70 ms (minimum) after the assertion of BDCOK H. If
power does not remain stable for 70 ms, BDCOK H is negated. Therefore,
devices must suspend critical actions until BPOK H is asserted.
4. BPOK H must remain asserted for a minimum of 3 ms. BDCOK H must
remain asserted 4 ms (minimum) after the negation of BPOK H.
So there you have some things to check in to.
Johnny
>>> forsyth.co.uk <http://forsyth.co.uk/><mailto:don...@lue-
>>> To view this discussion visithttps://groups.google.com/d/
>>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>>> pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d-
>>> a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>> pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1- <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>> msgid/pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1->
>>> b76d-a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>?
>> >E4CF7852-FC4D-49AD-B981-B8AAA4144318%40lue-forsyth.co.uk
>> <http://40lue-forsyth.co.uk/><https://groups.google.com/d/
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>> >B8AAA4144318%40lue-forsyth.co.uk <http://40lue-forsyth.co.uk/
> a2cb-8a9e90cb7451%40softjar.se>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/98a39179-2ae5-4ac8-
> ae5b-29cec8244598n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Check W10. If that jumper isn't unstalled, you do not have a CPU clock.
BDCOK H should be enabled on the bus once the power supply is providing
a stable power at the proper levels.
BPOK H should be enabled at all times. When that goes low, the CPU will
generate an NMI power fail interrupt.
BHALT L should be high, and you should not have a break coming on the
serial port. Both are sources for the CPU getting to HALT.
Looking further, I found the power up sequence description on page 6-20
of the manual for the KDJ11-B.
Basically:
1. Logic associated with the power supply negates BDCOK H during
power-up and asserts BDCOK H 3 ms (minimum) after DC power is restored
to voltages within specifications.
2. The processor asserts BINIT L after receiving nominal power and
negates BINIT L 0 ns (minimum) after the assertion of BDCOK H.
3. Logic associated with the power supply negates BPOK H during power up
and asserts BPOK H 70 ms (minimum) after the assertion of BDCOK H. If
power does not remain stable for 70 ms, BDCOK H is negated. Therefore,
devices must suspend critical actions until BPOK H is asserted.
4. BPOK H must remain asserted for a minimum of 3 ms. BDCOK H must
remain asserted 4 ms (minimum) after the negation of BPOK H.
So there you have some things to check in to.
Johnny
>>> forsyth.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Paulo,
>>>
>>> The M8190 will not boot without memory installed and
>>> perhaps also
>>> a terminator depending on the backplane.
>>>
>>> Do you have a console connected to the 10pin connector on
>>> the M8190?
>>>
>>> I took all the boards out of mine except the M8190 and the
>>> attached photos show what happened. I have also attached a
>>> photo
>>> of what you will see on the console if the system boots
>>> properly -
>>> as you can see the first thing the CPU doesis do a 9 step
>>>
>>> Paulo,
>>>
>>> The M8190 will not boot without memory installed and
>>> perhaps also
>>> a terminator depending on the backplane.
>>>
>>> Do you have a console connected to the 10pin connector on
>>> the M8190?
>>>
>>> I took all the boards out of mine except the M8190 and the
>>> attached photos show what happened. I have also attached a
>>> photo
>>> of what you will see on the console if the system boots
>>> properly -
>>> memory
>>> test before it will boot the OS.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> donald
>>>
>>> <IMG_9468.jpg>
>>> <IMG_9470.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <IMG_9467.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 Nov 2024, at 18:44, Paulo Rebordão <pjreb...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have an issue with real DEC hardware, notsure if anyone
>>> test before it will boot the OS.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> donald
>>>
>>> <IMG_9468.jpg>
>>> <IMG_9470.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <IMG_9467.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 Nov 2024, at 18:44, Paulo Rebordão <pjreb...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:pjreb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> here
>>> can help...
>>>
>>> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC
>>> processor.
>>> The board is on a BA213 backplane.
>>> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel
>>> design taken from herehttps://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
>>> can help...
>>>
>>> I have an M8190-AE CPU board complete with a DCJ11-AC
>>> processor.
>>> The board is on a BA213 backplane.
>>> Power is supplied by an ATX PS, managed through a front panel
>>> design taken from herehttps://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657
>>> <https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657>
>>> <https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657 <https://
>>> avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657>>
>>> Every signal from it was checked before thefinal test.
>>> <https://avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657 <https://
>>> avitech.com.au/?page_id=1657>>
>>> msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
>>> pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1-b76d-
>>> a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
>>> pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1- <https://groups.google.com/d/
>>> msgid/pidp-11/93d1eed6-9ca5-40d1->
>>> b76d-a4aabef7a135n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>?
>>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>
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>
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