Kermit via Telnet on 2.11BSD with SIMH

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Igor M

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Mar 30, 2022, 10:10:30 AM3/30/22

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Hi group, I've been playing with the PDP2011 - the PDP-11/70 - on the Altera DE1 board. Works nice!

One task I've been struggling with is how to copy larger files to/from the Sytse's stock disk image. I've tried following - in the SIMH I mount the image, and I connect SIMH via telnet to the TeraTerm terminal (all in Win). There is a kermit version installed in the Sytse's 2.11bsd image, the TTerm supports the kermit transfer as well. The connection TTerm <-> 2.11BSD via telnet works in the SIMH, the actual file transfer via kermits does not. Not sure the kermit version in the image there supports the telnet transfer, however..

C-Kermit 5A(188), 23 Nov 92, PDP-11 2.10 BSD
Type ? or HELP for help
C-Kermit>

In the hardware I have got the TTerm connected to the DE1 board via an FTDI usb dongle and the kermit in 2.11bsd works nicely with the TTerm's kermit (even at 19k2 with large files without a crash, but too slow). Do I need some special settings I am not aware of?

Thanks!

Igor

Johnny Billquist

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Mar 30, 2022, 4:23:21 PM3/30/22

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Any reason why you are not going with TCP/IP and ftp?

Johnny

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|| on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

jon....@gmail.com

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Mar 30, 2022, 4:41:54 PM3/30/22

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I've used Kermit in the past to transfer files to an old PC that I didn't have networked at the time, but for 2.11 BSD I've been using either ftp over ethernet (for convenience) or UUCP (because the entire point of having a PiDP11 is doing things for the sake of retrocomputing). I don't have an FPGA to try out the PDP2011 with, but its website indicates that it includes a DEUNA that will work with at least some FPGA ethernet NICs, so you might just go with getting ethernet and TCP/IP working, if possible on your FPGA. Even if not, since you say that you're booting the image in SIMH to do the file transfer (rather than transferring directly to the system on the FPGA), ftp over ethernet is a fairly good option.

For the serial-only route, I have a series of guides on getting UUCP set up at https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/tree/master/howtos . It does assume that the PDP-11 is a simh guest running on a Linux host. You may need to modify it for Windows (I don't know what UUCP packages would be available there, though Taylor UUCP under WSL would be an option). I'm not sure, even under SIMH, that you'll get faster speeds than with a direct serial connection: IIRC I get a fairly consistent 9600 baud.

Johnny Billquist

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Mar 30, 2022, 4:53:59 PM3/30/22

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simh throttles serial ports to get an approximation of the simulated
speed. So even if you actually have very fast serial ports, you'll not
get things going fast over the serial ports in simh.

Johnny

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jon....@gmail.com

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Mar 30, 2022, 5:04:01 PM3/30/22

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Exactly.

Even with TCP/IP, the bandwidth that a low-performance system like this can handle is limited simply by CPU time considerations. Generally single FTP file transfers are fine, but there are programs for Linux that will mount FTP connections as filesystems: ftpd on 2.11 BSD tends to crash if you make heavy use of this.

Johnny Billquist

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Mar 30, 2022, 5:11:09 PM3/30/22

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That would be more because of some bug. I've done that towards RSX
systems, and it works fine.

If you spot some crash, let me know. We should fix that.

Johnny

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>
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>

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Igor M

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Mar 31, 2022, 3:35:05 AM3/31/22

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Hi, thanks for the hints! I do not have networking there on that fpga board. The pdp-11/70 on that fpga works aprox 1.5x faster than the original, the disk (an sdcard) even faster, imo. The kermit via hw serial works fine, but the average speed is something like 1.5kB/sec (with 19k2 serial). That is ok for smaller source files I've been messing with. With larger files something faster would be welcomed, however. I was thinking a transfer via kermit and telnet in simh would be much faster than what I have now. The c-kermit version there on the 2.11bsd image has no "set telnet" (the higher versions have it, afaik), thus it could be that version simply does not work via telnet.

Johnny Billquist

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Mar 31, 2022, 4:39:53 AM3/31/22

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The c-kermit on the 2.11BSD side do not have to have anything about
telnet. You are connecting in to it as if it is a terminal line. You
just put it in server mode, and you are happy. But, as I said, simh
pacing will make it no faster than a physical serial port. And you
cannot disable the simh serial port pacing. You can at best tweak it
(unless you go in and change the sources).

But 1.5kB/s on 19200 bps seems likely as good as you can get.
Theoretically the highest you could expect is something like 2kB/s. But
there is a bit of overhead in the protocol as well.

If you want to squeeze as much as possible out, increase the packet size
and enable sliding windows in kermit, if possible. That can get you
closer to 2kB/s, but there isn't much more you can do.

The set telnet thing in kermit is something you need if you are doing
the connection. If you have managed to connect, log in and interact with
the 2.11BSD system, then you do not have to do anything more than start
kermit and turn on server. It does not have anything to do with telnet
at all on that side.

Johnny

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>
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-6b6a2e0f8a2cn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-6b6a2e0f8a2cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Johnny Billquist

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Mar 31, 2022, 5:14:09 AM3/31/22

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By the way - the non-networking thing/problem on the fpga. While that's
something that I would want to change if I were you, it's sortof not so
relevant. You can still spin the network up on your simh instance...

Johnny

Igor M

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Mar 31, 2022, 5:19:14 AM3/31/22

to [PiDP-11]

Johnny, sure, I've been running the 2.11bsd image in simh and the TTerm terminal is connected to it via telnet (port 555). The issue with that version of c-kermit in the unix is it does not connect to the TTerm kermit (ie. running c-kermit server). So no interaction between those two kermits. With the hw serial those two kermits cooperate surprisingly well.
SIMH via telnet.PNG

Johnny Billquist

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Mar 31, 2022, 5:50:07 AM3/31/22

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This could be an issue with the simh emulated serial port stripping the
high bit. Either tell kermit to use 7-bit, or check how to change the
simh config.

At least my brain is telling me that simh by default is messing with the
data. It could be something else as well, but that would be my first guess.

Johnny

On 2022-03-31 11:19, Igor M wrote:
> Johnny, sure, I've been running the 2.11bsd image in simh and the TTerm
> terminal is connected to it via telnet (port 555). The issue with that
> version of c-kermit in the unix is it does not connect to the TTerm
> kermit (ie. running c-kermit server). So no interaction between those
> two kermits. With the hw serial those two kermits cooperate surprisingly
> well.

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-6b6a2e0f8a2cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

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>
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Igor M

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Mar 31, 2022, 10:42:11 AM3/31/22

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Yep, it works now with

SET TTi 8B
SET TTo 8B

in the simh. The transfer speed is rather a tragedy :-)..

Johnny Billquist

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Mar 31, 2022, 10:45:01 AM3/31/22

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On 2022-03-31 16:42, Igor M wrote:
> Yep, it works now with
>
> SET TTi 8B
> SET TTo 8B
>
> in the simh.

Good.

> The transfer speed is rather a tragedy :-)..
>

> kermit vs tterm 211bsd in simh.PNG

Told you so... :-)
It's always driving me crazy, but Mark claims he likes it, and others
want it.

Switch to networking...

Johnny

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>
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f-93ad8dd68aebn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f-93ad8dd68aebn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm

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Mar 31, 2022, 11:25:44 AM3/31/22

to Johnny Billquist, pid...@googlegroups.com

On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 4:45 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> On 2022-03-31 16:42, Igor M wrote:
> > Yep, it works now with
> >
> > SET TTi 8B
> > SET TTo 8B
> >
> > in the simh.
>
> Good.
>
> > The transfer speed is rather a tragedy :-)..
> >
> > kermit vs tterm 211bsd in simh.PNG
>
> Told you so... :-)
> It's always driving me crazy

There may be other reasons you are crazy... :-)

> , but Mark claims he likes it, and others want it.
>
> Switch to networking...

Agreed.

Meanwhile, on the any simulator console port (which you're using if with TTI and
TTO) you can influence the speed, with the SET CONSOLE SPEED=xxx where xxx is
a standard serial port speed value, PLUS an optional SPEED FACTOR, where the
SPEED FACTOR defaults to 1 but can be as large as 32:

sim> SET CONSOLE SPEED=9600*32

The SPEED FACTOR works with console connections or other multiplexor ports
over telnet sessions. Multiplexors that have programmatic speeds (DZ, and DH)
control the base line speed, but the SPEED FACTOR is specified at attach time.

- Mark

> oter>>>.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > > || on a psychedelic trip
> > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > >
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> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
> 298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com
> >
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
> 298
> > aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com>
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> > >
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
> 298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> oter
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> 298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo

> oter>>.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >
> > --
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> ooter>.
>
> --
> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> || on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> 0aecf911aad8%40softjar.se.

Igor M

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Mar 31, 2022, 2:28:44 PM3/31/22

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Hi Mark, the max speed I get (currently around 700bytes/sec) is when I do not set the console speed.

With 9600*4 or 32 I get around 100bytes/sec. Weird..

PS: on my real hw I get around 1.5kB/sec via 19k2 console with the same setup (TTerm vs c-kermit)..

Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm

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Mar 31, 2022, 2:38:37 PM3/31/22

to Igor M, [PiDP-11]

Are you connecting to the console session via telnet?

sim> SET CONSOLE TELNET=port,speed=19200*32

Then use Kermit to connect via telnet to localhost:port… I haven’t used Kermit in over 25 years, so that concept is vaguely from memory, but I think it is accurate.

The last time I checked, the PiDP11 simh source code was some thing like 3 years back. You may want to try to run with a PDP11 simulator built from current source at https://github.com/simh/simh. You can build it directly with:

$ git clone https://github.com/simh/simh

$ cd simh

$ make pdp11

The resulting binary in BIN/pdp11 will run fine on your PiDP11, but won’t have front panel support. This should certainly be sufficient for Kermit interactions.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/76beaa59-f46f-4420-b43f-ef751d657594n%40googlegroups.com.

Igor M

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Mar 31, 2022, 3:16:54 PM3/31/22

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Mark, I've been using the latest simh binary from github, and the simh config - see the picture.

It looks to me as an issue with buffering inside the simh..

Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm

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Mar 31, 2022, 4:01:56 PM3/31/22

to Igor M, [PiDP-11]

In general, Simh doesn’t buffer more than a character or so. Specifically, it doesn’t complete the simulated character output back to the simulator until the time the actual transmit of that character would take at the specified port speed. This process is particularly rigorous with the simulated MUX devices (DZ and DH). The console port output is probably right on, but you’re Kermit activity is trying to stressing console input. Console input hasn’t necessarily been optimized for input since most folks can’t type very fast. Console input (especially over telnet sessions) specifically allows for input bursts of characters which are indeed buffered. This is to cover the case where users paste chunks of data into a telnet session. When they do this, numerous characters will arrive over the telnet session at one time and to avoid overrun into the simulator, excess data isn’t dropped and is buffered until the simulator requests another character.

I suggest you try to connect to the simulator via a DZ port.

sim> ATTACH DZ port,speed=*32

this will run data at the simulated OS’s programmed port speed times 32.

Alternatively, as others have suggested use the network!

From: pid...@googlegroups.com <pid...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Igor M
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 12:17 PM
To: [PiDP-11] <pid...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [PiDP-11] Re: Kermit via Telnet on 2.11BSD with SIMH

Mark, I've been using the latest simh binary from github, and the simh config - see the picture.

It looks to me as an issue with buffering inside the simh..

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/32f8d6d8-ad66-47a6-a9be-97ebb038c5e9n%40googlegroups.com.

Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein

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Apr 2, 2022, 2:31:03 PM4/2/22

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I'm still a bit puzzled about the throughput issue, and I also would like to get Kermit running in a useful way. on my PiDP-11. I currently use ftp from inside 2.11BSD to exchange large files with the "outside world" (I use it to exchange ca 380 MB of seismic data in total each night and then process it) and I get a decent throughput of a few 10s of KB on a simulated PDP-11 that is otherwise throttled to match the original CPU speed (at least roughly). Works great.

So I understand that the above, somewhat slow, solution uses telnet from "the outside world" to the host system emulating the PDP-11 , where SIMH listens on that port and takes the telnet connection to plug it into a simulated serial device, it then gets connected to shell, where kermit does the file transfer magic.

So I wonder, given that bridged TCP/IP connections thru SIMH have an OKish throughput, wouldn't it be possible perhaps to start a telnet server under 2.11BSD in the simulated PDP-11 (just like you can start the http service there ), connect to it *directly* from the outside world via the network bridge , and then use kermit over that link?

Am I missing something here?

Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein

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Apr 2, 2022, 2:43:08 PM4/2/22

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Ahhh sorry, forget about my previous post, I was missing the part that this particular hardware doesn't really support networking, I was mentally stuck in the Raspberry Pi context.

Cheers

Johnny Billquist

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Apr 2, 2022, 3:04:02 PM4/2/22

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Disregarding that bit, your idea would be fine. Yes, telnetting directly
into the 2.11BSD system, and running kermit would give better
performance. But if you get that far, why would you not use ftp? Clearly
better than kermit. :-)

Johnny

> requests another character.____
>
> __ __
>
> I suggest you try to connect to the simulator via a DZ port.____
>
> __ __
>
> sim> ATTACH DZ port,speed=*32____

>
> this will run data at the simulated OS’s programmed port speed

> times 32.____
>
> __ __
>
> Alternatively, as others have suggested use the network!____
>
> __ __
>
> *From:* pid...@googlegroups.com <pid...@googlegroups.com> *On
> Behalf Of *Igor M
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2022 12:17 PM
> *To:* [PiDP-11] <pid...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [PiDP-11] Re: Kermit via Telnet on 2.11BSD with
> SIMH____
>
> __ __

>
> Mark, I've been using the latest simh binary from github, and

> the simh config - see the picture.____
>
> It looks to me as an issue with buffering inside the simh..____
>
> ____
>
> __ __

>
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 8:38:37 PM UTC+2 Mark Pizzolato

> wrote:____
>
> Are you connecting to the console session via telnet?____
>
> ____
>
> sim> SET CONSOLE TELNET=port,speed=19200*32____
>
> ____

>
> Then use Kermit to connect via telnet to localhost:port… I
> haven’t used Kermit in over 25 years, so that concept is

> vaguely from memory, but I think it is accurate.____
>
> ____

>
> The last time I checked, the PiDP11 simh source code was
> some thing like 3 years back. You may want to try to run
> with a PDP11 simulator built from current source at
> https://github.com/simh/simh

> <https://github.com/simh/simh>. You can build it directly
> with:____

>
> $ git clone https://github.com/simh/simh

> <https://github.com/simh/simh>____
>
> $ cd simh____
>
> $ make pdp11____

>
> The resulting binary in BIN/pdp11 will run fine on your
> PiDP11, but won’t have front panel support. This should

> certainly be sufficient for Kermit interactions.____
>
> ____
>
> *From:* pid...@googlegroups.com <pid...@googlegroups.com>
> *On Behalf Of *Igor M
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2022 11:29 AM
> *To:* [PiDP-11] <pid...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [PiDP-11] Re: Kermit via Telnet on 2.11BSD
> with SIMH____
>
> ____

>
> Hi Mark, the max speed I get (currently around 700bytes/sec)

> is when I do not set the console speed.____
>
> With 9600*4 or 32 I get around 100bytes/sec. Weird..____

>
> PS: on my real hw I get around 1.5kB/sec via 19k2 console

> with the same setup (TTerm vs c-kermit)..____
>
> ____

>
> On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 5:25:44 PM UTC+2 Mark

> Pizzolato wrote:____

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > > bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > > bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > > bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > > bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > > bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > > bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > > bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > > bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>>>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > >
> >
> bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > >
> >
> bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > >
> >
> bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > >
> >
> bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > >
> >
> bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > >
> >
> bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf->
>
> > 818
> > >
> >
> bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb->
>
> > 8edf-
> >
> 818bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>

> > oter>>>>>.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > > > > > || on a psychedelic trip
> > > > > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > > > > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are
> subscribed to the
> > > Google
> > > > > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop
> receiving emails from
> > > it,
> > > > > send
> > > > > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4
> > > f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4
> > > f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4
> > > f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4
> > > f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> >
> 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4
> > >
> >
> f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> >
> 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4
> > >
> >
> f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> >
> 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> > 5e4
> > >
> >
> f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote>
>
> > r>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> >
> 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/27556ffb-f9a3-4f34-9556->
>
> >
> 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>

> > oter>>>>.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > > > > || on a psychedelic trip
> > > > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > > > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are
> subscribed to the Google
> > > > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop
> receiving emails from it,
> > > > send
> > > > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-

> > oter>>>.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > > > || on a psychedelic trip
> > > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are
> subscribed to the Google
> > > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
> emails from it,
> > > send
> > > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >
> > >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->
>
> > 298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->
>
> > 298
> > > aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->
>
> >
> 298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>
> > oter
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->
>
> >
> 298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>

> > oter>>.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > > || on a psychedelic trip
> > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are
> subscribed to the Google
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
> emails from it, send
> > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f-

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f->
>
> > 93ad
> > > 8dd68aebn%40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > >
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f-
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f->
>
> >
> 93ad8dd68aebn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=f
> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=f>

> > ooter>.
> >
> > --
> > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
> > || on a psychedelic trip
> > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
> > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed
> to the Google Groups
> > "[PiDP-11]" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
> emails from it, send an
> > email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/6bec212a-afcb-5dc7-bbac-

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/6bec212a-afcb-5dc7-bbac->
>
> > 0aecf911aad8%40softjar.se <http://40softjar.se>. __ __

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails

> from it, send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.____

>
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/76beaa59-f46f-4420-b43f-ef751d657594n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/76beaa59-f46f-4420-b43f-ef751d657594n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.____

>
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/32f8d6d8-ad66-47a6-a9be-97ebb038c5e9n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/32f8d6d8-ad66-47a6-a9be-97ebb038c5e9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.____

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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/066edec6-3923-4b2a-98da-f19b661858b0n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/066edec6-3923-4b2a-98da-f19b661858b0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein

unread,

Apr 2, 2022, 5:12:49 PM4/2/22

to [PiDP-11]

> But if you get that far, why would you not use ftp? Clearly

>better than kermit. :-)

True, and I do use ftp for my current project, but then again nothing we do with the PiDP-11 here is strictly about maximizing performance anyway, right, but we are trying mostly to re-create some experiences from the past. Like getting gopher to run or connecting physical CRT terminals and other crazy stuff.

Igor M

unread,

Apr 4, 2022, 1:09:47 PM4/4/22

to [PiDP-11]

Yea, my hardware here is not the Rpi, but an altera cyclone II FPGA board without a networking. I've have here several other fpga boards with enough memory and network controllers, but the actual mem and netw chips are not supported by the PDP2011 project (and will not be).

The kermit on the PDP11/70 with the cyclone II works fine and fast enough for small files (1.5kB/sec at 19k2). I will try it with a higher serial speed today to see where the limits are (it is a 10MHz CPU and the RH disk on an sdhc card with 25MHz spi speed).

I wanted to try under SIMH as my expectation was the kermit will work at least 10x faster in the simulator so I can transfer larger files to the disk image fast. My expectation was not correct, however.

As far as networking in 2.11bsd is concerned - that is a topic for advanced users, imho, my skills here are pretty rusty. It seems to me the Sytse's image of the 2.11BSD is networking ready somehow, but no idea how to interconnect it via SIMH with my host Win10, yet..

Sytse van Slooten

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 9:22:20 AM4/5/22

to Igor M, [PiDP-11]

I'm amazed that Kermit works in this setup... haven't really looked at it since 1986 when it was the only way to get my homework on to the university mini, a prime 750.

Maybe it would run faster if you use the (ahem) original simh, what is it, 3.8 something?

Or else, for simh, you could try to set up the xu controller and use tcp (ftp) for transfers. That should be a lot faster - but setting it up may be a bit of work, depending on your host system.

Or for the de1, that should work with a pmodnic100 without problems - the fpga should be plenty big enough to include the xu controller, and ftp would get you something like 1Mbit throughput easily.

Or if you want to stick to serial, I think you could probably go a factor 4 faster than 19.2 but it depends a lot on how well the other end plays with my serial controller. And your throughput will not increase linearly with the serial speed, it is a lot of work for the cpu as well - it'd be interesting to see how far you can take it. I used to run SLIP (serial link IP) and got that up to 56kbit, and maybe faster too - it's a while since I last tried that.

What I'm working on is using esp32 as a frontend for deuna/delua. pdp2011 with wireless network yay ;-)

It's nowhere near finished though, and no promises when it will be done.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/06b4b67e-8280-4035-a251-f95599a7594bn%40googlegroups.com.

Igor M

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Apr 5, 2022, 9:47:59 AM4/5/22

to [PiDP-11]

Hi Sytse, thanks for the information. I've tried with 38k4 speed and it does not work, the kermit crashes with that serial speed. It seems the CPU is limiting it. Also the 140MHz dram freq is the max reliable freq. What could perhaps help is to decrease the /14 ratio somehow as the CPU itself could be clocked faster, imho. The cyclone II is currently 88% full, not much left for xu, but I could try with xu, sure. Would be great if your Wifi would work with the ESP8266 too, I have a couple of them in my junk box waiting!

Igor

Igor M

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 10:42:32 AM4/5/22

to [PiDP-11]

@Sytse: I've built with the xu - it fits 99%, only 155 free LE left (out of 18k) what is a miracle, after the bitstream is uploaded it waits here

: xp(0,0,0)unix
Boot: bootdev=05000 bootcsr=0176700

2.11 BSD UNIX #5: Sat Oct 31 18:56:40 CST 2020
ro...@localhost.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/PDP2011

attaching de0 csr 174510

I do not have the network chip here, so my current understanding is it will not move forth without the netw chip wired..

Btw, the critical path reg-reg delay is 48.4ns, thus the CPU clock will stay 10MHz with this cyclone II, a pity.

Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 11:42:13 AM4/5/22

to Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm, Igor M, [PiDP-11]

I just made an adjustment to the console input processing which should help your Kermit console input character delivery.

Try with the latest code from the master branch.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/a74159c8147546c2aa7afd5c2624a7e6%40infocomm.com.

Sytse van Slooten

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 1:01:16 PM4/5/22

to [PiDP-11]

correct - if you configure the xu controller, the chip must be connected otherwise bsd will hang at that point.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/648c2ba2-8399-4f30-85cf-bd5c362ca1e2n%40googlegroups.com.

Igor M

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 1:03:24 PM4/5/22

to [PiDP-11]

Hi Mark, I cloned the master branch, built from sources, and the result - aprox 400bytes/sec with speed=19200 or speed=19200*32

Johnny Billquist

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 1:03:25 PM4/5/22

to pid...@googlegroups.com

Hum. Are you saying that 2.11BSD hangs if you configure a network with a
Unibus ethernet, and no controller actually exists, or is there
something hanging in the FPGA?

If it's in 2.11BSD, then it needs to be fixed.

Johnny

On 2022-04-05 19:01, Sytse van Slooten wrote:
> correct - if you configure the xu controller, the chip must be connected
> otherwise bsd will hang at that point.
>
>
> On 5 Apr 2022, at 16:42, Igor M <igr...@gmail.com

> <mailto:igr...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> @Sytse: I've built with the xu - it fits 99%, only 155 free LE left
>> (out of 18k) what is a miracle, after the bitstream is uploaded it
>> waits here
>>
>> ..
>> : xp(0,0,0)unix
>> Boot: bootdev=05000 bootcsr=0176700
>>
>> 2.11 BSD UNIX #5: Sat Oct 31 18:56:40 CST 2020
>> ro...@localhost.2bsd.com

>> <mailto:ro...@localhost.2bsd.com>:/usr/src/sys/PDP2011

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>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo>>

>>>
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/e022874b-db55-4feb-8edf-
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>>>
>>> >
>>> > > 818
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>>> bc69e2ed3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote

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>>> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=foote
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>>>
>>> >

>>>
>>> > > oter
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>>> >
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>>>
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> 5e4f172de6fdn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo

>>>
>>> > > oter>>>>.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > --
>>> > > > > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>>> > > > > > || on a psychedelic trip
>>> > > > > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
>>> > > > > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > > > --
>>> > > > > > You received this message because you are
>>> > subscribed to the Google
>>> > > > > > Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
>>> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop
>>> > receiving emails from it,
>>> > > > > send
>>> > > > > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>>> > > > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
>>> > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->
>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > 6b6a2e0f8a2cn%40googlegroups.com

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> > <http://40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->

>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > 6b6
>>> > > > a2e0f8a2cn%40googlegroups.com

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> > <http://40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>>
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> > <http://40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> > <http://40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>>>
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->

>>>
>>> > > oter
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->
>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > 6b6
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> a2e0f8a2cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>
>>> >
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->

>>>
>>> > > oter
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->
>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/7f601998-f62d-4e15-970c->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> 6b6a2e0f8a2cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo

>>>
>>> > > oter>>>.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > --
>>> > > > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>>> > > > > || on a psychedelic trip
>>> > > > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
>>> > > > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > --
>>> > > > > You received this message because you are
>>> > subscribed to the Google
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>>> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop
>>> receiving
>>> > emails from it,
>>> > > > send
>>> > > > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>>> > > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
>>> > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->
>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > 298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> > <http://40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->

>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > 298
>>> > > > aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> > <http://40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>>
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->

>>>
>>> > > oter
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->
>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/051459b5-c5fe-417d-91ac->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> 298aa2677b9cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=fo

>>>
>>> > > oter>>.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>>> > > > || on a psychedelic trip
>>> > > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
>>> > > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > You received this message because you are
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>>> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
>>> > emails from it, send
>>> > > > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>>> > > > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
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>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f->
>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > > 93ad
>>> > > > 8dd68aebn%40googlegroups.com

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>
>>> > <http://40googlegroups.com
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/>>
>>> > > >
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f->

>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/bdca6b89-4de3-46da-b19f->>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> 93ad8dd68aebn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=f

>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=f>
>>>
>>> >
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=f
>>> <http://40googlegroups.com/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=f>>

>>>
>>> > > ooter>.
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>>> > > || on a psychedelic trip
>>> > > email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
>>> > > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > You received this message because you are subscribed
>>> > to the Google Groups
>>> > > "[PiDP-11]" group.
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>>> > emails from it, send an
>>> > > email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/6bec212a-afcb-5dc7-bbac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/6bec212a-afcb-5dc7-bbac->
>>>
>>> >
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/6bec212a-afcb-5dc7-bbac-
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/6bec212a-afcb-5dc7-bbac->>
>>>
>>> >

>>> > > 0aecf911aad8%40softjar.se <http://40softjar.se/>
>>> <http://40softjar.se <http://40softjar.se/>>. __ __

>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are
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>>> pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com

>>> <http://googlegroups.com/>.____

>>> >
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> >
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/76beaa59-f46f-4420-b43f-ef751d657594n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/76beaa59-f46f-4420-b43f-ef751d657594n%40googlegroups.com>
>>>
>>> >

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/76beaa59-f46f-4420-b43f-ef751d657594n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/76beaa59-f46f-4420-b43f-ef751d657594n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.____
>>>
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>> >
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> >
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/32f8d6d8-ad66-47a6-a9be-97ebb038c5e9n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/32f8d6d8-ad66-47a6-a9be-97ebb038c5e9n%40googlegroups.com>
>>>
>>> >

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/32f8d6d8-ad66-47a6-a9be-97ebb038c5e9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/32f8d6d8-ad66-47a6-a9be-97ebb038c5e9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.____
>>>
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>> emails from it, send
>>> > an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>>> > <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> >
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/066edec6-3923-4b2a-98da-f19b661858b0n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/066edec6-3923-4b2a-98da-f19b661858b0n%40googlegroups.com>
>>>
>>> >

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/066edec6-3923-4b2a-98da-f19b661858b0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/066edec6-3923-4b2a-98da-f19b661858b0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
>>> || on a psychedelic trip
>>> email: b...@softjar.se || Reading murder books
>>> pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>> Google Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>> it, send an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/06b4b67e-8280-4035-a251-f95599a7594bn%40googlegroups.com

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/06b4b67e-8280-4035-a251-f95599a7594bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "[PiDP-11]" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:pidp-11+u...@googlegroups.com>.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/648c2ba2-8399-4f30-85cf-bd5c362ca1e2n%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/648c2ba2-8399-4f30-85cf-bd5c362ca1e2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/837D1F0F-3472-4723-92BA-0A44E7EA48A2%40sytse.net
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/837D1F0F-3472-4723-92BA-0A44E7EA48A2%40sytse.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Sytse van Slooten

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 1:14:57 PM4/5/22

to [PiDP-11]

I think both - the microcode for the controller in the fpga loops trying to connect to the chip, and the driver loops for the deuna csr to update. Can't dive into the details now though - but I'm pretty sure this would not happen in the same way with the original hardware.

It's one of those things that I've been wanting to fix in the microcode. After the first initialization, you can disconnect the chip and it'll just pick up again when you reconnect it (I used to have to do that every couple weeks before I got a better power supply for my always running bsd system). It should be the same with the initial setup - there's no reason for the way it works now.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-11/2c65ead7-a63e-f929-6ac0-21d6d8c8aefa%40softjar.se.

Johnny Billquist

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 1:16:00 PM4/5/22

to pid...@googlegroups.com

Ok. Sounds like there is nothing to fix in 2.11BSD then. Thanks.

Johnny

Igor M

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 1:16:46 PM4/5/22

to [PiDP-11]

@Sytse: built the bitstream for area with more effort and it fits now into 91% and 2.11bsd stops on the same place without the netw chip wired..

Igor M

unread,

Apr 5, 2022, 1:37:17 PM4/5/22

to [PiDP-11]

@Mark: with

set console telnet=23

I get 800bytes/sec. Could it be the

set console telnet=23, speed=19200*32

does not get parsed correctly??

Igor M

unread,

Apr 7, 2022, 4:16:41 AM4/7/22

to [PiDP-11]

As Mark has kindly investigated the issue with kermit is with slowish TeraTerm over the telnet, I've just tried with another kermit capable terminal - the K-95

"winkermit-3.0-test-21-nov-2013-vc6" I've found on my hdd (I was using it long time back)..

The kermit's transfer speed is 8500-13000Bytes/sec (text is slower, binary is faster) from K-95 telnet terminal via kermit into pdp-11/70 in SIMH, the latest SIMH build with Mark's changes in the console source.

The SIMH console setup:

set TTi 8B
set TTo 8B
set console telnet=23,speed=19200*32

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