ITS questions
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Bradford Miller
Jun 6, 2024, 9:57:37 PMJun 6
to PiDP-10
So I may or may not have known this at one point, but I can’t discover it from any online documentation I’ve found:
1) The Knight terminal should take some one-letter commands followed from an <esc> but it doesn’t seem to. Has this been remapped to some other character/shift key? ( This communicated with the PDP-11 in charge of the terminal instead of the 10).
2) How does one get a list of all the directories on a device?
3) How does one get a list of all the <filesystem> devices?
4) I’ve put my information into INQUIR but it doesn’t update, and I can’t seem to find the various programs that deal with the INQUIR database (which presumably in it’s latter days was run by LCS so that might be the issue, but Lar’s list of programs on ITS includes the update program yet I get a not found message if I try to run it without a path).
Thanks!
—Brad
1) The Knight terminal should take some one-letter commands followed from an <esc> but it doesn’t seem to. Has this been remapped to some other character/shift key? ( This communicated with the PDP-11 in charge of the terminal instead of the 10).
2) How does one get a list of all the directories on a device?
3) How does one get a list of all the <filesystem> devices?
4) I’ve put my information into INQUIR but it doesn’t update, and I can’t seem to find the various programs that deal with the INQUIR database (which presumably in it’s latter days was run by LCS so that might be the issue, but Lar’s list of programs on ITS includes the update program yet I get a not found message if I try to run it without a path).
Thanks!
—Brad
Eric Swenson
Jun 6, 2024, 10:41:32 PMJun 6
to Bradford Miller, PiDP-10
Hi Bradford.
Don’t know the answer to 1).
2). To get a list of directories on a device type:
dev^f
Eg “dsk^f”. Or “arc^f”, or “pk0^f”.
^f is Control-F
3) there isn’t really a good way to list devices. Some device names are built in, like DSK, PK0, MT0; and some are found by looking in the DEVICE directory at files with FN1 being JOBDEV. The FN2 will name a device. For example DEVICE;JOBDEV ARC allows one to use ARC as a device name.
4) if things are properly set up, the INQUIR database should get updated automatically. It does require that MAIL is properly set up and working. When you update your inquire entry, a mail message is sent to the mailer daemon. There is an EQV list entry (in .mail.;names >) that handles the mail and writes an .UPD > file in INQUIRE;. MAIL invokes the program INQUIR;INQUPD BIN, which processes all of the update files and updates the INQUIR database.
Feel free to DM me for details and debugging.
— Eric (KC6EJS, formerly E...@MIT-MC.ARPA)
> On Jun 6, 2024, at 20:57, Bradford Miller <bradford...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So I may or may not have known this at one point, but I can’t discover it from any online documentation I’ve found:
> --
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Don’t know the answer to 1).
2). To get a list of directories on a device type:
dev^f
Eg “dsk^f”. Or “arc^f”, or “pk0^f”.
^f is Control-F
3) there isn’t really a good way to list devices. Some device names are built in, like DSK, PK0, MT0; and some are found by looking in the DEVICE directory at files with FN1 being JOBDEV. The FN2 will name a device. For example DEVICE;JOBDEV ARC allows one to use ARC as a device name.
4) if things are properly set up, the INQUIR database should get updated automatically. It does require that MAIL is properly set up and working. When you update your inquire entry, a mail message is sent to the mailer daemon. There is an EQV list entry (in .mail.;names >) that handles the mail and writes an .UPD > file in INQUIRE;. MAIL invokes the program INQUIR;INQUPD BIN, which processes all of the update files and updates the INQUIR database.
Feel free to DM me for details and debugging.
— Eric (KC6EJS, formerly E...@MIT-MC.ARPA)
> On Jun 6, 2024, at 20:57, Bradford Miller <bradford...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So I may or may not have known this at one point, but I can’t discover it from any online documentation I’ve found:
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PiDP-10" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pidp-10+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/FFEAB680-11C0-4C59-9648-5C00308477BA%40gmail.com.
Lars Brinkhoff
Jun 7, 2024, 12:47:06 AMJun 7
to PiDP-10
Bradford Miller wrote:
1) The Knight terminal should take some one-letter commands followed from an <esc> but it doesn’t seem to. Has this been remapped to some other character/shift key? ( This communicated with the PDP-11 in charge of the terminal instead of the 10).
The physical Esc key is mapped to ALT on the Knight keyboard, i.e. Altmode. This is what you'd frequently use with DDT and TECO.
The Knight keyboard ESC key is mapped to your physical F2 key. E.g. F2 (ESC) C toggles between (what is now called) "dark mode" and light.
You'll already know F1 is mapped to CALL. But there's also F11 to toggle fullscreen mode. Speaking of which, I really like fullscreen mode to remove clutter and distractions. It's a much more immersive feeling—give it a try!
Bradford Miller
Jun 7, 2024, 12:01:14 PMJun 7
to Eric Swenson, PiDP-10
Hi Eric,
I’m not finding dsk^f to list directories, rather, it defaults to the last directory and is equivalent to :listf on that! Maybe I need a wildcard for the directory name, but as I recall it was “*” which doesn’t seem to work so my memory is faulty (it’s also confused by memories of LispM conventions).
HOWEVER, I did discover its.victor.se/wiki/user which teaches :prufd (print user file directories) lists the directories, which is what I was looking for!
Oh well, just call me J. Random Luser!
Eric Swenson
Jun 7, 2024, 12:10:46 PMJun 7
to Bradford Miller, PiDP-10
dsk^f will list the current directory on the DSK device, but without changing the directory. So if the default directory doesn’t my exist on the DSK device you’ll get an error.
Dsk^F is useful when the default device is something else. For example, if things are set up to allow listing of the another machine’s disk with an appropriate link for the machine name, eg ES, then you could do ES^F to list the current directory on ES. Then, to list that same directory on the current machine, you could use DSK^F. That has the side effect of making the current machine’s DSK device the current device.
The general form directory/device listing is:
:LISTF <device>:<directory>;
Now, if what you were asking originally was how to list all directories on a given device, use the magic file name:
<device>:M.F.D. (FILE)
As with the ^R command or :PRINT
That will show you all the names of the directories on the specified device.
Eric Swenson
Jun 7, 2024, 12:49:50 PMJun 7
to Bradford Miller, PiDP-10
Yeah, :PRUFD does that too. I think it just prints the magic file M.F.D. (FILE)
Back in the day, we just used the magic file name!
Hi Eric,
Bradford Miller
Jun 7, 2024, 9:25:33 PMJun 7
to Lars Brinkhoff, PiDP-10
About that: when is Oscar (or someone, anyone) going to do a Knight terminal keyboard kit?!
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Lars Brinkhoff
Jun 8, 2024, 12:02:31 AMJun 8
to PiDP-10
Bradford Miller wrote:
About that: when is Oscar (or someone, anyone) going to do a Knight terminal keyboard kit?!
It's quite expensive to order custom keycaps. Or else we'd have one already.
Bradford Miller
Jun 8, 2024, 8:34:21 AMJun 8
to Lars Brinkhoff, PiDP-10
If the BOM is $300 even assuming reasonable markup above that to amortize custom keycaps, I’d definitely be in for a Knight (or for a space cadet, as I am a fan of Kulp's keyboards, or both for that matter, esp. if wired and bluetooth).
What I can’t justify to my wife is the price on the Keymacs: https://keymacs.com/product.html?bk-a620n-a even if it is a Kulp imitation.
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oscarv
Jun 12, 2024, 3:06:19 PMJun 12
to PiDP-10
I'd love to do one - and I think Lars already put in some early thought-work.
Not even all that hard either, there are plenty of Kicad keyboard projects to start from, and USB keyboard firmware is on github these days.
Time & lack of brain fog would be useful (especially the latter in my case).
A physical Knight TV as well as a physical type 340 must rank high on the to-do list.
Kind regards,
Oscar.
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