TOPS-10 login question

[Tim Radde]

I have not used TOPS-10 in decades and certainly not much with Simh.  I can telnet in and login with some accounts but not others.  [1,2] works fine.  Was trying to login to [1,4] where more of the software seems to live and I get the error: May not login to data set.  To me this seems to be telling me maybe I have something already signed into this console?  I do have a few things logged into my Linux machine.  So will check that.  Or it could be that something is not configured properly somewhere.  I was going to play around with that Fortran Empire game and see what I could make of the issue of it not working.  First of all I have to get the source into TOPS-10.

[Clem Cole]

Tim,

FYI: I have held off attacking TOPS-10 for now because the tools there are not quite as rich.  If your intention is getting Empire running, you might want to start with TOPS-20 only because Panda has a few more modern tools (there an implementation of TAR, a mostly C89-compliant version of KCC, and a few UNIX-style tools like uudecode - which are a helpful crutch as well ).   My intention is to write a couple of HOW-TOs for both flavors of TOPS - particularly for more modern users who have never encountered a system with an operator.  But I wanted to wrap my head around (and refresh some 45-year stale bits in my brain).

If you want to attack TOPS-20, send me an offline message, and as I can probably give you a few helpful hints (like setting up LOGIN.CMD properly).

One quick note, Lars has on his github a copy of the Stanford LOTS user overview in a PDF - I recommend snarfing it and reading it. MRC's Panda TOPS-20 is heavily based on LOTS.  I've found it helpful to refresh some old memories.

ᐧ

ᐧ

On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 5:00 PM Tim Radde <timr...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have not used TOPS-10 in decades and certainly not much with Simh.  I can telnet in and login with some accounts but not others.  [1,2] works fine.  Was trying to login to [1,4] where more of the software seems to live and I get the error: May not login to data set.  To me this seems to be telling me maybe I have something already signed into this console?  I do have a few things logged into my Linux machine.  So will check that.  Or it could be that something is not configured properly somewhere.  I was going to play around with that Fortran Empire game and see what I could make of the issue of it not working.  First of all I have to get the source into TOPS-10.

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[Tim Radde]

I have never used TOPS-20 or ITS.  Thus my decision to stick with what I used back in the late 70s and early 80s.  Not that I remember much.  I never used or played Empire but seeing as others seem to have tried I figured why not myself.  I have nothing better to do being retired.  :)  We'll see how well I make out.

[Tim Radde]

Ah, having [1,4] as a library makes sense and why I can't login.  I followed your directions and used SETSRC to set it to [1,4].  This worked.  I just thought I'd want all the code to be in one spot and not in [1,2].  I suppose I could put it into any of the other user directories that are there too.  Now I just have to get the Fortran code loaded in.  This will take me some time to read up on all this.  I am much more familiar with the pdp-8 than a pdp-10 and its usage.  It's just something for me to mess with so not critical.  Thanks again.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 4:18 PM jeff gunter <jeffg...@usa.net> wrote:

1,2 is a ppn to login to.

1,4 is a ppn to be a library.  it's probably forbidden to login to.

try logging into 1,2 and then setting your default path to 1,4 if you want to login to 1,4.  your ppn remains 1,2, your path points at 1,4.

for example you can set your default path with setsrc, or with path (and possibly some others).

.R SETRC

*CP[1,4]

*^C

.

or

.R PATH

*[1,4]

*^C

.

having said that, maybe you just want to login to 1,2 and run things from 1,4 implicitly, as you did with SETSRC above?

you can run things off 1,4 just by saying "R FOOBAR", if they're an executable (ie: *.EXE, *.SAV, etc)

-jfg

--

[Richard C]

There really is no reason to login to 1,4 or SETSRC to it. Same with logining in to 1,2. If you are using one of my builds, there is 100,100 and 100,101 DEMO1,DEMO2 available for user use. 1,4 can be accessed via device SYS:

TOPS10 has two RUN commands. RUN <dev>:<name> run an EXE from <dev>. <dev> defaults to DSK: or what you have SETSRC too. The other command is R <name> this runs <name> from SYS:

So to run anything in SYS: all you need do is R BASIC say.

Rich

[Tim Radde]

Ok, I logged in to 100,100.  I was not sure what the PW was for that.  But you told me.  Thanks.  I remember very little about TOPS-10.  I just remember I enjoyed the machine and how we used it for our labs and stuff.

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[steve...@gmail.com]

For what it's worth, the TOPS-10 that comes with the PiDP-10 is version 6. I've been playing with version 7, which seems (to me, anyway) somewhat more advanced and a bit easier to use. I need to document what I've done and see about possibly importing more sample programs and source code but when I am done I will happily make it available to whoever wants it. The blinkenlights on the PiDP-10 work fine under TOPS-10 v7 even though it runs on a KS, not a KA.

-- steve

[Richard C]

I have an automatic builds for Tops 10 7.0x on my web site. They include most compilers and like. They will build on either KS or KL automatically. Just grab the zip, then run the emulator you want with load.ini then to run it use run.ini.

Rich