My feedback on building the PiDP-10

[Dennis Gilmore]

I finished up the build today. I was short 1 LED; the kit needs 126, and I received 125. I used one that I had here already. The biggest issue I had with soldering was with the switches. In my haste to get everything done. I did not put enough solder on many of them and had to go back and resolder a bunch.

To identify the non-working switches, I ran pidp10-test and toggled each switch. I took note of the momentary switches that did not work and left toggled the toggle switches that did not respond,

I think I dropped one of the screws for attaching everything to the injection mould case, and I will put it in when I find it.

As you can see from the pictures, I replaced the cover for the RPI with the NVMe Base from pimoroni.

The kit was well packaged, and the box held up great. Overall, it was fun to put together. I gave my pinecil a workout. I need to pull the LED board off and reattach it. Make sure that the led cover board sits as close as possible to the screen printed cover. There are a couple of LEDs that you can see that they are LEDs as too much of it is exposed.

 

Regards

Dennis

[DR]

This indeed looks like a captivating project and even the best
workmanship will be derailed if we are seduced in our enthusiasm to get
it done and running.

The sad part no one is saying much about is that, while the entire world
of software awaits, part of this experience is the soldering and
assembly and all that goes with it.


When the box is done, it is done.  I don't know of any more in this
series (I've wanted a PDP-8 replica for years and found one here) that
would be interesting or worth Oscar's experience and devotion to
bringing the hardware and his programming and his team together for
another round.

8, 10, 11   What more is there?


So I plan on taking my time, doing the best possible job (I didn't have
one solder problem with the previous 8 and 11 kits) and even be overly
OCD about making the resisters all line up like I did when Heathkits
were still a thing.

I guess while I like seeing all these first batch kits come out so
quickly and beautifully, this may very well be the swan song for me and
this whole project.  I hope Oscar's insight into bringing back the
hardware (at least in emulation and outside looks) that we who lived in
that period lived so fully but I'm not sure what the next might possibly
be, or that he'll ping my interest as hard as he did for these boxes.


Anyway, here's hoping the next two or three weeks will bring my invite
to order.  Dale

[oscarv]

Dale,

On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 2:55:53 AM UTC daleea...@gmail.com wrote:

8, 10, 11   What more is there?

Well, now I've got some help I am planning a PiDP-1 with Angelo Papenhoff, and with him and Guy Fedorkowski, a Whirlwind. That would complete the timeline of DEC for me. Although Angelo is adamant that he will do a PDP-6 too, at some point.

Anyway, here's hoping the next two or three weeks will bring my invite

It will. We're already packing up the kits. But as we have to put all the parcels on a pallet and have that flown from Panama to Florida (where a fulfillment center handles the actual shipping to builders), it'll be 2-3 weeks before they are at that fulfillment company. We chose to do this in Panama because it is where we like it to be, but it was not quite the rational choice in terms of shipping efficiency. Sending parcels straight out of Panama is just not a good idea, the postal system is unreliable (we tested it...)

Kind regards,

Oscar.

[Michael Thompson]

I was thinking of using half of the data lights and switches on the KA10 panel with the PDP-9 simulator.

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[dab]

I might suggest in the building instructions that you install the GPIO connector after the LEDs.  It's not terrible to work around but it'd be easier if you didn't have to.

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Michael Thompson wrote:

I was thinking of using half of the data lights and switches on the KA10 panel with the PDP-9 simulator.

It's a good look for the PDP-9/L!

[Anthony Cunningham]

On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 2:55:53 AM UTC daleea...@gmail.com wrote:

When the box is done, it is done.  I don't know of any more in this
series (I've wanted a PDP-8 replica for years and found one here) that
would be interesting or worth Oscar's experience and devotion to
bringing the hardware and his programming and his team together for
another round.

8, 10, 11   What more is there?

PDP-12 looks lovely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-12#/media/File:PDP-12_front_panel_and_screen.jpg

T

 

[johntk...@gmail.com]

St Patrick's Day has passed..

[Ken Hansen]

Dennis,

That looks great, thanks for sharing.

I soldered a PiDP-11 too quickly, and wound up with a horrible job with the switches (ALL were upside-down!), this past week I put together a PiDP-8 kit I've had since early 2018 (based on the newspaper packaging inside!), and took my time. I built the RPI, then slept. I soldered all the LEDs and discrete components on the PCB, then slept. I was over-worried about the switches, but after a few good night's sleep, I installed the switches this morning, and all went well. Now I just need to drill some holes in my case and seal it up!

All that is my way of agreeing with your advice to not go to fast, take your time, be careful, and get it right the first time.

Looking forward to getting a PiDP-10 kit soon...

Ken 

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[Dennis Gilmore]

I moved the 10 to be near the 8 and 11. along with my VT-100 replica.

Dennis

On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 8:06 PM 'Dennis Gilmore' via PiDP-10
<pid...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>

[Jon Jackson]

Henk,

Do you have a link to the quiet fans you purchased?

TIA,

Jon J.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 10:16 PM Henk Gooijen <henkg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Added the fans on the rear panel. I chose rather quiet fans, and at 5V they are indeed quiet ... I cannot hear them, too quiet  :(

The cable connected to the fan farthest away from the fan power connector was just long enough.

The "lower" pin of the fan power supply connector is the positive one (red wire attached).

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[DR]

I got these off from Amazon for what I thought was a good price:

Search for

GDSTIME 5Volt 120mm Fan, 1500RPM 120mm x 25mm DC Brushless Cooling Fan

Dale

[Dennis Gilmore]

https://www.instructables.com/23-Scale-VT100-Terminal-Reproduction/ is
the source for the vt100.

Dennis

On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:15 PM Mitchell Wolrich <mwol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Where did you source that VT100 replica from? looks good.
>
> I built a few of the VT132 Stand Alone VT100 emulators from "The High Nibble", only $50 USD and does a great job at VT52/VT100/ANSI emulation, best part is you can use a low cost 600 X 800 LCD display for about $80 on Amazon, and either an old PS/2 keyboard (if you have one around), or can get the $5 USB addon forf it, and use a USB keyboard.
>
> Link: https://thehighnibble.com/vt132/#overview
>
> Mitch

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pidp-10/f1ff72dd-b25b-456f-9fe6-75b5bacb0f05n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jon Jackson]

Copy that Henk,

I think I found the equivalent on Amazon here in the U.S. with fairly long power leads. I think it was Mitchell Wolrich who mentioned these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y7XB6G2/?coliid=I3N9SJGSHSRR1N&colid=3PLGYURGRQ2BD&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Thanks,

Jon J.

On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 5:24 PM Henk Gooijen <henkg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jon,

https://www.reichelt.de/nl/de/noiseblocker-blacksilent-fan-xl2-120-mm-noiseblock-xl2-p163573.html?&nbc=1 

It is a German webshop but also popular here in The Netherlands as well.

I order almost everything from them.

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[Mitchell Wolrich]

Yes, it was me who posted the Amazon link for the (2) 5V fans for $11 (with mounting screws, nuts and fan guards)...  don't forget the matching JST-XH 2.54mm 2 pin sockets, straight and right angle, even comes with some male and female wires (not really needed though).  Here's the link to that..  btw the fans come with the JST-XH 2.54mm 2 pin connectors on them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CL9MGC82?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Mitch

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[DR]

Here in USA Amazon has these extension wires:

search for

5 Pairs JST-XH 2.54mm 2 Pin 1S Balance Plug Lead Socket Male and Female Connector with 20cm (7.9inch) Silicone Wire Cables

these and the fan source was given to me by another PiDP builder.  And as much as I appreciated him sharing, I am happy for the comradery this group shares, and him doing the original search.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Aside from a potential set of Indicator panels, the PiDP-1 is coming up it seems. Which like me you'll probably see it and initially think "I don't really want that". But then you'll do some research on it and realize "yeah actually I kinda do want that". Personally I would like a PiDP-12, though I wont make the bet on it happening due to it needing an injection molded case as well just like the 10 and 11. It integrated compatibility with the "LINC" computer which is something I've been digging through two dozen websites today looking at. Supposedly the designs for the LINC are public domain. I might actually be able to make one of those from scratch myself if I can stomach the cost of all those transistors. It would definitely be an interesting project to solder together, and there's some interesting software for it floating around the net.

I know there's been discussions on the other google groups (for the 8 and 11) about what would come next. Something others and myself mentioned is that IBM systems would be very cool, tons of led's to stare into at 2am and buttons to push. One of the 360 series is what most would probably be interested in. The model 91 would definitely be the coolest of the 360's but I don't think any of us can afford the cost of parts for one of those even if scaled down (or the time and space required to build it lol). Offering a bezel or case for a screen to plug the existing PiDP's into would be a smart next logical step in the DEC catalogue. The VT100 is the model I assume most people would suggest but I think the VT52 or VT05 look cooler.
For something tangentially related, have no idea how you would do it because I'm not that intelligent, but I really want a new paper tape peripheral to read and write. There are a couple paper tape reader kits out there but they use real paper tape, which is a limited quantity resource at this point. I think it would be far smarter to design one that uses thermal receipt printer paper to physically punch data onto and read from, that way we can all write as much data to it as we want and when we run out of paper, getting more is as simple as hopping down to an office supply store.

The Whirlwind replica that whispers are coming out on, for it being a near-future project, would be amazing to own. I will absolutely be on the short list for ordering one of those if/when they come about. front panel manipulation is what I enjoy the most and the whole reason I ordered a PiDP to start with. I would love to see the team at Obsolescence moving further into those early tube or transistor era machines like one of the IBM 700/7000 series, EDVAC, or a UNIVAC. Though personally I would want it to be, much like a replica IBM 360 model, as large as possible. Large enough to be able to use the thing without a keyboard or maybe even a terminal and still get work done, purely front panel operations. Probably a replacement for the painting over the fireplace kind of size. I know I spoke with Oscar at VCFSW about it briefly and I'll keep pestering him whenever I get the chance, but I really want some full rackmount size kits. Its very easy to acquire or build rackmount shelving from online sources these days (attachment related, my "rack" as it sits now). luckily for me the PiDP-10 is kinda rack sized, so thats one less thing for me to pester people with in the future :) . I don't expect a new run of injection molds just to upscale the size by a little bit. But just something large enough so that doesn't leave empty or blank gaps on either size when put on a rack would be nice.
I've been toying with designing some kind of adaptor breakout pcb for the PiDP-8 using the same kind of construction method as a lot of eurorack synthesizers go with of just having a PCB as a rackmount plate, and then having a scaled up image of the front panel sheet printed on it. The 8 seems the easiest to scale up due to the flat faced design to it, as opposed to the 10/11/12 which all have molded frames to them. The 1 would also be very easy for the same reason.

There are also a slew of systems that a simple blinkenlight display box could be made for. You'd just need some smoked and/or printed plexiglass that screws together and some led's and a handfull of switches (like the IMSAI clone kit). A CDC 160-A is a pretty good example of what comes to mind. lots of square edges and flat surfaces on that one, not too many buttons to raise parts cost, would look great on a shelf. Data General has a couple models that could be very cheap to produce display pieces in the same way.

[Andrew Barron]

I had no problems building kit number 731. All the LEDs, diodes, and switches worked perfectly. It's a great kit with the board clearly labeled with the switch colors and component polarity etc. I am very impressed with the kit. But I was completely dumbfounded with the software until I found the excellent PiDP10 user guide. I am a complete NOOB. I didn't know that I had to change terminals after the boot. My RPi5 has a Pineberry 256 GB NVMe M.2 board on it, so I have not fitted the backboard around that yet. I remember using a PDP-10 when I did a BASIC course around 1975. But we were not allowed to touch the hardware. We wrote the code on paper, and at one stage punched our own Hollerith cards. These were sent to Lincoln University (Christchurch New Zealand) and run on their computer. A week later we went back to class and were presented with the results on wide lineflow printer paper. I am pretty sure that the computer at Lincoln University was a PDP10. We visted the suite. It was in its own air conditioned room. It had four tape drive racks and three or four hard drive racks. I am not sure if the computer at the Polytechnic where I studied was a PDP-8, a PDP-11, or a PDP-10. I was there the day they wheeled in their brand new 10 Mb hard drive unit on a sack barrow.  The Techs were so excited. The 10 Mb drive was to service the computer department (serious computer studies students - not BASIC twerps like us) and the accounts department. They thought it was HUGE!! My first computer was a TRS-80 in about 1978. I spent a fortune on it. More than $3000 by the time I added a real printer (I had been using a Creed 75 til then), and a floppy disk drive.

Cheers

AndrewB

[Robert S]

>> I was completely dumbfounded with the software until I found the excellent PiDP10 user guide.

May I ask what PiDP10 user guide you are referring to?  

[Tim Radde]

Well, one thing is sure is it was not a pdp-8.  No 8 ever had a disk over 5MB at least that I know of.  Likely a pdp-11, as the 10 used much larger packs too in the 100s of MBs.

[oscarv]

Hi,

This link: https://obsolescence.dev/pidp10-sw/PiDP-10_Manual.pdf

On the PiDP-10 main page, https://obsolescence.dev/pdp10.html

Kind regards,

Oscar.