DGT Pegasus Architecture

[Brian Erdelyi]

It seems a discussion started on the DGT Pegasus while I started thinking about it’s architecture and opportunities this may have for PicoChess.

Out of the box, DGT Pegasus is intended to interface with online chess servers using a DGT companion app.  I expect a companion app like this will become more common for DGT to reduce their ongoing software development efforts.  I believe this may be the approach with other boards and chess apps.

[Topschach Benny]

For the hardware, DGT has developed its own circuit board this time. Communication takes place as follows:

DGT Pegasus <---> DGT App <---> DGT Cloud API <---> 3rd party chess platform

In principle, everything runs via the DGT app. Let us assume that we want to program our own app, which is to be connected to the DGT Pegasus. Here we program the app and link it to the DGT app, which ensures communication with the DGT Pegasus.

That sounds awkward at first, but it works pretty well in practice. Another advantage is that our app is listed in the DGT app. This means that every owner of a DGT Pegasus sees our own app in the list in the DGT app.

You'd think that this way of data communication might introduce latency, but in practice there was practically no delay.

The API is therefore not a hardware API, but a DGT App API. But I am already sure that resourceful developers can set up a Bluetooth connection to the DGT Pegasus and communicate directly with the DGT Pegasus.

Soon it's time :-)

Benny

[Topschach Benny]

Another important note. The DGT Pegasus uses Smart Bluetooth technology (also known as low-energy Bluetooth). That saves energy. Devices that use SMART Bluetooth do not normally appear in the list of available Bluetooth peripheral devices. There is no need to download drivers here. The DGT app takes over the pairing directly.

[Brian Erdelyi]

Great feedback thank you.

> DGT Pegasus <---> DGT App <---> DGT Cloud API <---> 3rd party chess platform

Interesting. Where does the DGT Cloud API reside? Is the DGT companion app or does the DGT companion app speak with a DGT service that interacts with a chess server like lichess?

As you say, all board communication is done with the DGT Companion app (I dont know it’s official name). The DGT companion app then communicates with third-party chess servers. This is how I thought it worked:

Board < bluetooth > DGT Companion App < Internet > Chess Server

I understand this requires the DGT companion app to support adding of additional chess servers. If PicoChess could emulate a chess server I think this presents many opportunities (assuming DGT would support adding additional chess servers… or allow the user to manually add the chess server and select the protocol it supports (such as lichess API). I’d suggest a PicoChess server on the same IP network as the DGT companion app.

Brian

[Topschach Benny]

With a third party app, it is this way:

  Board < bluetooth > DGT App < Internet > DGT Cloud API <internet> Chess Server

Everything goes through the DGT Cloud API. 

[Brian Erdelyi]

Interesting that DGT would chose to create their own intermediary DGT Cloud server.

Does this mean users must also create an account on the DGT cloud server? It also means if DGT cloud server experienced an outage it will affect ALL pegasus users. If DGT discontinued their DGT servers (never say never) then the Pegasus is bricked.

It also means DGT should have to create support on their cloud server for any additional chess servers.

Brian

[Topschach Benny]

DGT has a very good provider of servers and uses redundant systems. :-) DGT will always exist ;-) In 2022, DGT will move into a larger building and strengthen the team with more employees.

As far as I know, you don't have to create an account. You just have to install the DGT app.

[Brian Erdelyi]

DGT has a very good provider of servers and uses redundant systems. :-) DGT will always exist ;-) In 2022, DGT will move into a larger

Respectfully, I think this is a naive comment.

Designing the product to require a DGT cloud service is not in the consumer’s best interest.  I’m curious what this DGT cloud service does that couldn’t be done within the DGT companion app?  Many people will suggest this is primarily to lock the customer into their services.

DGT Pegasus users WILL experience outages due to any number of reasons.  I’m not predicting how frequent it will be.

There are many products that unnecessarily become defunct because the company goes out of business or shuts down a service.

https://www.vg247.com/ubisoft-shutting-down-servers-for-some-classic-games

I once owned a dongle for my car called Automatic for reading OBDII codes.  It stopped working when the company discontinued it.

The same has happened with content protected by DRM.  When license servers disappear, people lose the content they bought.

Brian

building and strengthen the team with more employees.

As far as I know, you don't have to create an account. You just have to install the DGT app.

brian....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 3. November 2021 um 11:44:25 UTC+1:

Interesting that DGT would chose to create their own intermediary DGT Cloud server.

Does this mean users must also create an account on the DGT cloud server? It also means if DGT cloud server experienced an outage it will affect ALL pegasus users. If DGT discontinued their DGT servers (never say never) then the Pegasus is bricked.

It also means DGT should have to create support on their cloud server for any additional chess servers.

Brian

> On Nov 3, 2021, at 6:40 AM, Topschach Benny <tops...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With a third party app, it is this way:
>
> Board < bluetooth > DGT App < Internet > DGT Cloud API <internet> Chess Server
>
> Everything goes through the DGT Cloud API.

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[LJR]

> On Nov 3, 2021, at 8:21 AM, Brian Erdelyi <brian....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The same has happened with content protected by DRM. When license servers disappear, people lose the content they bought.
>
> Brian

As an aside, I think it’s important to distinguish between buying the content and buying a license to use the content. As per many license agreements, the owner of the content usually has the right to revoke that license (and in so doing, access) at any time.

It sucks, but it’s one thing that anyone in this digital world needs to be cognizant of. It’s one reason why many (at least in video game circles) choose physical media over digital downloads.

[Topschach Benny]

My answer was, of course, deliberately exaggerated. What should one answer to that? If at some point Lichess or Chess.com no longer exist, you will have problems with even more devices.

The live broadcasts of the world chess championships and practically every major chess tournament worldwide is broadcast with DGT boards, which are connected to the DGT Livechess cloud. It has been running very reliably for many years.

DGT has grown very healthily over the past few decades. I consider the danger that DGT will no longer exist in the foreseeable future is extremely unlikely.

[Horst Kern]

The account mania of the companies is clearly going too far for me here.

AND when the power is out and the entire infrastructure is down, my PicoChess runs for days with one powerbank. And that is the best time for chess ;-)

[Brian Erdelyi]

@lajero: Yes, I agree a “license” is different from owning the content and why some people prefer physical media. Here’s a scenario… DGT fails to generate enough revenue from DGT Pegasus boards (either from sales or subscriptions to some unannounced services) to keep the cloud service running. Products have a useful lifespan and I wouldn’t expect DGT to support it indefinitely.

>> The same has happened with content protected by DRM. When license servers disappear, people lose the content they bought.
>
>

[Brian Erdelyi]

My answer was, of course, deliberately exaggerated. What should one answer to that? If at some point Lichess or Chess.com no longer exist, you will have problems with even more devices.

Agree, sarcasm or exaggerations can be lost in forums.  I’m just pointing out that the DGT servers can become unavailable for many reasons (I”m a security professional and have more insight into this than the average person).  I expect this could be an issue for DGT.  I hope you didn’t take offence to my comment… that was not my intent.

By the same logic I expect at some point in the future Lichess or Chess.com could experience similar service outages or even cease to exist.  DGT would have to support other chess servers.  I’m referring to the requirement that some DGT online service exists… if that fails or ceases to exist the DGT Pegasus is bricked.  It doesn’t matter if Lichess or Chess.com continue to be available.

B

[Topschach Benny]

DGT has talks in all directions. Also with Chessbase. Frederic Friedel already has a Pegesus to test. The longevity of DGT products is a characteristic of this company. As far as data protection is concerned, everything was already clear when I visited DGT. There are only a few cosmetic things that are changed. For example, they worked again on the design of the chess pieces. Hans is a perfectionist there. I think I have time on the weekend and then upload a Pegasus video to YouTube.

Will be done shortly.

Benny

[BillyC]

Wait a minute, have I understood this correctly? With the Pegasus thing I can only connect to all common chess servers with a diversion via the DGT server, whereas otherwise (with the other DGT boards) I can connect directly?
What is the added value for the consumers/user?
Doesn't this approach also make the transmission of the moves (somewhat) slower, in addition to all the other drawbacks that have already been mentioned?

Billy

[Brian Erdelyi]

Wait a minute, have I understood this correctly? With the Pegasus thing I can only connect to all common chess servers with a diversion via the DGT server, whereas otherwise (with the other DGT boards) I can connect directly?

As described, that would be correct.  Here is the updated architecture based on what Benny described.

What is the added value for the consumers/user?

It is not clear to me what the added value is to the consumer.  DGT may claim this allows them to better control the user experience.  In practice, this may mean DGT wants to charge licensing fees to be on their platform or may be planning other cloud based services they intend to charge users a fee for (or as a way to collect email address).

As a consumer, I’m worried that the service will go down (albeit unlikely and rare).  DGT may also discontinue the DGT Cloud API (for any number of reasons) and consumers can no longer play online chess.  I dont think the DGT Cloud Server adds any specific value to this architecture rather than complicating it.

Perhaps DGT may claim it makes development and/or of the DGT companion app easier.

Doesn't this approach also make the transmission of the moves (somewhat) slower, in addition to all the other drawbacks that have already been mentioned?

This is the least of my concern, regardless, according to Benny there is not a practical concern.

B

Billy

tops...@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 3. November 2021 um 16:34:39 UTC+1:

DGT has talks in all directions. Also with Chessbase. Frederic Friedel already has a Pegesus to test. The longevity of DGT products is a characteristic of this company. As far as data protection is concerned, everything was already clear when I visited DGT. There are only a few cosmetic things that are changed. For example, they worked again on the design of the chess pieces. Hans is a perfectionist there. I think I have time on the weekend and then upload a Pegasus video to YouTube.

Will be done shortly.

Benny

brian....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 3. November 2021 um 15:47:24 UTC+1:

My answer was, of course, deliberately exaggerated. What should one answer to that? If at some point Lichess or Chess.com no longer exist, you will have problems with even more devices.

Agree, sarcasm or exaggerations can be lost in forums.  I’m just pointing out that the DGT servers can become unavailable for many reasons (I”m a security professional and have more insight into this than the average person).  I expect this could be an issue for DGT.  I hope you didn’t take offence to my comment… that was not my intent.

By the same logic I expect at some point in the future Lichess or Chess.com could experience similar service outages or even cease to exist.  DGT would have to support other chess servers.  I’m referring to the requirement that some DGT online service exists… if that fails or ceases to exist the DGT Pegasus is bricked.  It doesn’t matter if Lichess or Chess.com continue to be available.

B

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[Topschach Benny]

Dear Brian, I can't get anything out of this kind of suggested facts. I would also like to explain to you why.

First you make assumptions, which you then present as facts (DGT collecting mails, etc.) in order to then complain about the content of the assumptions you have made.

As a developer, I am an advocate of the direct hardware API and when the concept of a cloud API was presented to me, I thought about possible restrictions. But in the end I came to the realization that it was an economical solution both for the 3rd party developers and for DGT.

With a cloud API, DGT can avoid or at least make it more difficult to grow wild. DGT has learned from previous projects. A cost factor that the end customer often ignores is support. A company must always include the follow-up costs in the calculation of a product.

When the DGT Pi came onto the market, the end customer could easily swap the SD card and use more engines and other features. A great thing for the end customer, but that also led to customers wrecking their DGT Pi or contacting DGT Support in the event of errors. That makes work. These are follow-up costs.

DGT has learned from this and made it more difficult to make changes at DGT Centaur. In the end, it's about DGT following a concept in its products. High quality products that are consistent and require as little support as possible. DGT prefers to invest the money saved in high quality.

Of course there are also other companies in the chess sector, that calculate exactly the other way around. Instead of investing money in quality, support is being expanded. Due to the poor quality, there are of course more support inquiries, but if a manufacturer produces its products extremely cheaply, it can ultimately be cheaper to exchange a product through support than to offer a higher quality in principle.

DGT has been so successful for decades because they focus on quality. This pays off in the long term.

But back to the cloud API. This also has the advantage that it can be easily expanded. Future products that use the same cloud API will be compatible with each other without a 3rd party developer having to change their code.

Here is a simple example. You program the Cloud API so that the LED on a field on the DGT Pegasus flashes. Now, at some point, a DGT board will come onto the market in which one field has 4 LEDs. As a 3rd party developer, you don't have to reprogram your code. The cloud API ensures that all 4 LEDs light up with your code on the new DGT board.

As I said, this is an exemplary example.

Benny

[Brian Erdelyi]

@Benny We are very fortunate to have you part of this community and sharing your perspective.  I sincerely appreciate your work and commitment.  I also understand there are somethings you may not be able to share.  I get it.

Yes, I make assumptions.  I believe I have clearly stated them as assumptions and never present them as fact.  I do not have a DGT Pegasus or any insight into DGTs business strategy (and never claim to)

As you’ve pointed out… the decision to use a DGT Cloud API is to better control the user experience (I fully understand support issues with DGT Pi) and to reduce development effort.  I’m trying to say it’s not clear (to me) why the DGT Cloud API is required and why it can’t be done within the DGT companion app (for example… the companion app causing the LED on the board to flash).

Here is a simple example. You program the Cloud API so that the LED on a field on the DGT Pegasus flashes. Now, at some point, a DGT board will come onto the market in which one field has 4 LEDs. As a 3rd party developer, you don't have to reprogram your code. The cloud API ensures that all 4 LEDs light up with your code on the new DGT board.

As you described it, the DGT Companion app connects to the DGT board using bluetooth.  This companion app handles all communication with the board.  I would expect the companion app to send a command to flash an LED on the board (not a server on the Internet).  That’s all… I don't make architecture or design decisions for DGT.  As you say… DGT is a large company with many resources and are sure to keep the service running forever (there is alot of sarcasm in this statement because larger companies have experienced unforeseen service outages and even discontinuation of services).

I am looking forward to the product being released and hearing comments from others.  I think DGT provides some of the best chess products available.

B

[Topschach Benny]

You're right. The future will show whether the DGT concept will work for the Pegasus. So far, at least in terms of demand, DGT has landed another bestseller with the Pegasus. If 99% of all buyers of a DGT Pegasus are satisfied with the product in the end, DGT has done everything right.

We will see. :-)

Benny

[Topschach Benny]

Just to complete this > Please read this :-)

https://digitalgametechnology.com/privacy-policy-dgt-chess-app

Benny

brian....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. November 2021 um 09:42:19 UTC+1: