GIVING UP ON PICO

[jesse.w...@gmail.com]

I tried to install the pico on my gigabot. I could not get the temperatures to stabilize. jamb after jamb after jamb after jamb after jamb after jamb after jamb after jamb. garbage as far as im concerned and a waste of $100+ dollars.

[B3]

Jesse,

I am sorry you are still having issues. During our phone support this past week, we talked about some key pieces of information we still need to verify about your printer setup, such as extruder heater output voltage; in order  to determine the reason why your printer host software only reports a maximum extruding temperature of a low 200 degrees Celsius, which is too low to extrude PLA successfully, causing jams. Please take a look below to review our past phone support conversation and options.

First, please consider this option: To fast track and completely skip these troubleshooting tips below, we wold like to send you a known working unit, B3 tested and approved 24V Pico to knock a few things out of the equation. You would then send us back your current Pico, so we can conduct testing on it here at B3. Please let us know if you are interested in this. If not, and if you have spare time, below are the troubleshooting tips we discussed over phone support.

Recapping what we have covered over the past week's phone support are the key pieces of information we still need, in order to help you troubleshoot your printer issues:

Determining whether your voltage on your Gigabot's printer board is 12 or 24 volts

There are a few ways to determine this:

1. After researching Gigabot's website, they have published their numerous model numbers linking the voltage to a model number. Over the phone you mentioned Gigabot verbally confirmed your model's voltage. Can you re-confirm with us by sharing what model number you have? It should start with GB*-***

2. Using a voltmeter/multimeter while the printer is on and extruder heater is warming up -  setting the dial or digital setting to Volts DC (low amperage ports) on your multimeter and placing the multimeter leads, each on the extruder heater junctions at the board. (The red multimeter lead must be placed on the positive junction and the black multimeter lead must be placed on the negative junction). The voltage should then be displayed.

We have already verified that you are using a 24V heater (tan colored wire leads with a black spiral stripe, see photo below) in Pico. So now we need to ensure 24V is getting to the heater cartridge. As mentioned before, we have seen in the past that when using a 24V heater mismatched with a 12V output, Pico will only reach 190-200 degrees Celsius, even when set to temperatures above 190-200 degrees Celsius.

Next, we talked about PID tuning - another possible cause of the low extruding temperatures. If I recall correctly, you have run through the M303 auto tune and M301 value adjustments through Pronterface. Have you saved the new adjustments correctly? View this link: https://www.lulzbot.com/support/fine-tune-your-marlin-pid-settings  as an example to PID adjustments and using the M500 command to save the new PID settings to EEPROM. A recommended method to adjusting the PID values is making these adjustments permanently through your printer's Marlin firmware in the configuration.h tab. Please consider this method if not already. A note to keep in mind is that if the P value is too low, that may cause the extruding temperature to not reach the set or desired temperature.

One other thing I would like to confirm is making sure you have temperature table 1 selected in your printer's Marlin firmware for the extruder temperature sensor. You can find what your configuration.h tab should look like here:  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/pico-support/temp$20sensor/pico-support/9YOlYglRTus/PwIxmgj5ZKcJ  

Next, spinning the extruder drive wheel too fast can cause stripping of the filament (the half circle shape gouge in the filament at the hobbed bolt) especially with 3mm. The 3mm filament extrusion feed speed is very slow compared to 1.75mm so be sure to slowly and gently feed the extruder wheel being cognizant of the feedback force from Pico. If not gentle or forced to spin the extruder wheel quickly, stripping can occur. Also be sure the preload between the hobbed bolt and filament is sufficient enough to not slip, further increasing the chance of stripping the filament.

Summary, please consider our offer of sending you a tested B3 Pico with free shipping. If instead you prefer to test the above troubleshooting tips, and they all report back all normal, we will expedite a shipment of a new 24 or 12V heater, depending on your printer's voltage output, free of charge. If the issue of a low extruding temperature still remains, we will still continue to offer tech support or offer a full refund for your troubles. If you wish to bypass all the options above we would be happy to issue a refund right away.

We hope this post has been helpful. We encourage you to continue sharing any updates over this support forum as this information may save yet another Pico or Gigabot user from the same headaches you are going through. Also, once in stock, we will send you the free 24 volt fan you requested.

Best Regards,

Michael

The B3 Team

B3 Innovations,LLC

ᐧ

[jesse.w...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the offer but my pico is ruined. The last jam I had to disassemble it and I ruined the brass tip. I reinstalled the old hot end I had and ran the PID tuning process and boom! Everything is back to normal. I can even run the old hotend up to 250C. it remains stable at temperature +/-2C the pico would only do +/-20C. I was disappointed the heater was not fixed in position and could move freely in its bore. Even at temperature it was still loose in its bore. The other hotend I have does not do this. The point you made about the extruder running to fast, I had the opposite problem if I ran it slower that's when it would freeze up. It is in fact a 24v system the serial number of my machine is GB2-202. Does the polarity matter for the thermistor wires or the heated wires? I could not find anything saying if it matters or not. I find it hard to believe the power supply I have is the issue since my old one works with no issues accept for leaking. That is why I purchased your product. I had no idea what amount of frustration I'd have to work with in order to use your product. If you want to send me a known working hotend I will give it a try. All I want to do is print my parts with no issue. Not having to mess around with settings and constantly clearing jambs.

▶ Show quoted text

[jesse.w...@gmail.com]

Mike Batta
Mike Battaglia (re:3D)
Jan 14 15:01

Hey Jesse,

What likely happened is that their PID values are very different from ours. If they are too different, it will detect that the difference is too far off and time out as they say.

What you need to do is get the PID values from Pico, plug them in and save them. And then run PID autotune again to fine tune it.

The other idea is that if our heater cartridge and thermistor fit into the pico, might as well try just swapping them out into the pico.

[B3]

Jesse,

Thank you for the reply. We would like to send you a tested Pico from us to try. The new information you mentioned (the +/- 20 degree swing) strongly points to PID issues, but the new Pico will determine this. If this continues to happen after the next Pico arrives, the PID would seem to be the issue. If it does not continue to happen, then the heater may possibly be the issue.

And thank you for sharing re:3D's response. We in fact use Bang Bang instead of PID values for tuning. Bang Bang is another or second option/choice to the popular PID. However, the PID values from one of our users are the default parameters which seem to work for his Pico and they are as follows:

#define PIDTEMP

#define PID_MAX 255 // limits current to nozzle; 255=full current

#ifdef PIDTEMP

  //#define PID_DEBUG // Sends debug data to the serial port. 

  //#define PID_OPENLOOP 1 // Puts PID in open loop. M104 sets the output power in %

  #define PID_INTEGRAL_DRIVE_MAX 255  //limit for the integral term

  #define K1 0.95 //smoothing factor withing the PID

  #define PID_dT ((16.0 * 8.0)/(F_CPU / 64.0 / 256.0)) //sampling period of the

// If you are using a preconfigured hotend then you can use one of the value sets by uncommenting it

// Ultimaker

    #define  DEFAULT_Kp 22.2

    #define  DEFAULT_Ki 1.08  

    #define  DEFAULT_Kd 114  

Let us know if you have tried these values and please look forward to the test Pico.

I want to thank you for your patience Jesse. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask in the meantime.

Thank you,

[invent...@gmail.com]

Michael,

Was this issue ever resolved? I also own a Gigabot and want to get your hotend capable of 500C.

[B3]

Last I was told was that Jesse was in the middle of moving and was too busy to get around to it. But I asked him to keep us updated on any progression. It seems he got it all mounted and everything, we just have to work out a possible bad heater or PID tuning.

Mike

The B3 Team

-Print On, Printers-

[Branden Coates]

Hi Jesse,

I see talk of you being in the middle of a move, but I wanted to give you some hope. I experienced issues with temp stabilization and jambs but have since gotten them sorted out and the hotend working pretty nicely. If you have time can you toss some general information about your current setup, I see its a gigabot and 24v, but I didnt see anything on your current PID values, your fan setup, 300/500 degree thermistor, and what material you are trying to print with. I tried looking at the website for gigabot to see what board/firmware its running but could not find anything there. I assume its running something Marlin based?

[jesse.w...@gmail.com]

I have returned and have installed the tested pico you sent. I set the configuration.h file for marlin to use table 1 and uploaded it successfully. I ran the pid tuning procedure and received the values. After setting the M301 command to the values received and saving them with the M500 command, I tested to see if the temperature was stable. this time it is better with temperatures staying +/- 5 deg. with the set temp at 190 deg. C. I am running pla. The GIGABOT has the Azteeg X3 board. I would like to see temp stay at +/- 1 deg. any suggestions? I have also installed A duct to ensure air is flowing over the cooling fins

[jesse.w...@gmail.com]

I'm going to try this next.

[jesse.w...@gmail.com]

Please help!

I have followed the instructions laid out in this thread and was able to get it working just fine. For a month I was able to make prints without any issues. Recently, I went through a procedure to adjust e-steps to get my extruder calibrated properly for the extrusion width. The e-step value I came up with was 1325. This value was the only thing I changed in my setup. I am now having problems. The nozzle will no longer heat up. When I try to run a print the nozzle heats up initially and the print begins, but shortly after, I see the temperature drop off and I get a message "heating failed" then "cold extrusion prevented". Any ideas what might be causing this? Could it be the thermistor, heater or wiring? Could it be something failed on my Azteeg X3 board? Visibly I can see nothing wrong.

[B3]

Jesse,

We recently ran into this same exact issue. It ended up being our connectors that we were using, were loose for the heater wires. Sometimes it had a good connection and others it didn't. The male pins on the connector were loose in the female connector. Can you check through and see if you find anything new?

Thanks

Mike

The B3 Team

[Jesse West]

There was in fact a loose connection with wiring to the hotend. working ok now!