Where to put heater bar?

[David Boyce]

I tune a little Challen with D-Type Spring & Loop action, in a church. Last time they wanted it tuned, at short notice, I couldn't do it as I was away on vacation.  Back at it today I saw that someone sold them a heater bar, and it's attached to the underside of the lid. 

There was no previous evidence of the action centers being tight or sluggish, but there is a little rust on the strings.  The piano was always fairly stable, and still is.

What do you think of this position of the heater bar?  I'm not too keen on it.  But I don't think there's anywhere underneath that it could be attached and do any good.  Since the piano never seemed damp, I question the necessity of it anyway, but I have to say that the piano was not badly out today.

What do folks think about this positioning?

Best regards,

David
www.davidboyce.co.uk

[tnr...@aol.com]

David

 

I have seen "heater bars", Damp chasers, on top of the struts, and on the soundboard along the long side. But never attached to the underside of the lid. Perhaps the other tuner convinced the church that the bar would keep the strings from getting more rusty.

 

Now that it's there, and it doesn't seem to have an effect on the tuning stability, or that action, leave well enough alone.

 

Wim

[David Boyce]

On 20/06/2013 13:34, tnr...@aol.com wrote:

David

 

I have seen "heater bars", Damp chasers, on top of the struts, and on the soundboard along the long side. But never attached to the underside of the lid. Perhaps the other tuner convinced the church that the bar would keep the strings from getting more rusty.

 

Now that it's there, and it doesn't seem to have an effect on the tuning stability, or that action, leave well enough alone.

 

Wim

Thanks for that response Wim.  My thoughts exactly.   Like you, I've never seen a Dampp Chaser on the underside of the lid like that. (And certainly no documentation from Dampp Chaser suggests such a position).  I thought as you think, that the idea was to prevent further rust.  In the event, I decided just as you suggest, to leave well alone!

David.

[Encore Pianos]

Since heat rises, it would seem pretty close to useless in its present position. 

 

Since they already paid for it, it would serve them better if you remounted it to the belly rail wall shown in your photograph.  Make sure the piano is closed fully when not being used, otherwise the bar is pretty ineffective.

 

Will

 

From: pian...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pian...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Boyce
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:26 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [ptech] Where to put heater bar?

 

I tune a little Challen with D-Type Spring & Loop action, in a church. Last time they wanted it tuned, at short notice, I couldn't do it as I was away on vacation.  Back at it today I saw that someone sold them a heater bar, and it's attached to the underside of the lid. 

[David Boyce]

On 20/06/2013 13:46, Encore Pianos wrote:

Since heat rises, it would seem pretty close to useless in its present position. 

Since they already paid for it, it would serve them better if you remounted it to the belly rail wall shown in your photograph.  Make sure the piano is closed fully when not being used, otherwise the bar is pretty ineffective.

Will

Thanks Will.  I know, it seems obvious that in that position the heater bar can do nothing for the action.  It may be that as Wim surmises (and me too), the idea was to keep warmer air around the strings, rather than the action, to precvent firsther rust (not that the rust is bad at all).

I did talk to the music guy about re-positioning, but I didn't commit to doing it today.  I worried that proximity to the strings would mean that if the heater was off and on, it could affect the tuning.  However, he told me it's always on (except for today when the piano had been moved because of some other things being repositioned).  And the piano wasn't badly out of tune at all, I have to say.  So at the moment I am inclined to leave well alone!

Best regards,

David.

[Encore Pianos]

Without a humidistat controller, it will affect the tuning at some point.  It will just sit there and suck its thumb and pump out the heat unless it is unplugged when not needed, whereas the controller will keep the humidity within a range.

 

Will

[David Boyce]

On 20/06/2013 14:31, Encore Pianos wrote:

Without a humidistat controller, it will affect the tuning at some point.  It will just sit there and suck its thumb and pump out the heat unless it is unplugged when not needed, whereas the controller will keep the humidity within a range.

Will

Good points WIll.  Mind you, this is the West of Scotland, where it rains all the time, everything is damp, and dryness is never a problem. The piano is a cheap tiny grand, D-Type Spring & Loop action. Probably between the wars. (I didn't check the serial number). It sits in a large cavernous church with stone interior walls, empty most of the week.  So I suppose the question is, is there some merit in the idea of protecting the strings, rather than the action centers, with the slight added heat. And could the heat build up to harmful levels?

Best regards,

David.

[Encore Pianos]

It sounds like this is a pretty consistently humid environment, where it likely would be running most of the time anyway. So you are  probably safe, and it is unlikely that the heat (actually heat is not the issue per se, virtually nothing will get overheated in a proper installation, but overdrying would be where the harm would lie). 

 

Is the action exhibiting problems associated with too much humidity (sticking keys, sluggish action centers)?  If so, place the rod under the keybed where D. C recommends.  Installing the rod in the action cavity is not recommended, that could be too drying to the pinblock. 

 

The rod installed underneath doesn’t just protect the strings from rust.  If used with a controller, it will keep the relative humidity around the soundboard within a narrow range, thereby adding to tuning stability.  That said, your piano is probably in a fairly stable, unchanging environment for RH.

 

Will

 

 

From: pian...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pian...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Boyce
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:55 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ptech] Where to put heater bar?

 

 

On 20/06/2013 14:31, Encore Pianos wrote:

[David Boyce]

On 20/06/2013 15:18, Encore Pianos wrote:

It sounds like this is a pretty consistently humid environment, where it likely would be running most of the time anyway. So you are  probably safe, and it is unlikely that the heat (actually heat is not the issue per se, virtually nothing will get overheated in a proper installation, but overdrying would be where the harm would lie). 

Is the action exhibiting problems associated with too much humidity (sticking keys, sluggish action centers)?  If so, place the rod under the keybed where D. C recommends.  Installing the rod in the action cavity is not recommended, that could be too drying to the pinblock. 

 The rod installed underneath doesn’t just protect the strings from rust.  If used with a controller, it will keep the relative humidity around the soundboard within a narrow range, thereby adding to tuning stability.  That said, your piano is probably in a fairly stable, unchanging environment for RH.

 Will

An issue that concerned me was how IMproper an installation this might be. 

As I said, the piano never had a problem with slugging action centers (or sticking keys).  The only reason I can think of why the other tech sold them a Dampp Chaser heater bar could be in relation to the slight rust on the strings. Or perhaps he just wanted to make a sale! 

But I had never seen a bar mounted in that position. I'm always willing to consider that someone else knows more about a thing than I do, however, and thought I would ask this list if anyone else had encountered an installation like this, in case there is a genuine rationale for it. It's certainly not a placing that is shown in any Dampp Chaser documentation.

Does anyone think that the lid could be warped or damaged by the heater bar?  It's low wattage and gentle heat, of course, but still.....

Best regards,

David.

[Joe Goss]

The person who installed the bar has defaced the piano.

Joe Goss BSMusEd MMusEd RPT
ima...@gmail.com
www.mothergoosetools.com

[Will Truitt]

Just move the sucker….  J

 

Will

 

From: pian...@googlegroups.com [mailto:pian...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Boyce
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:36 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ptech] Where to put heater bar?

 

 

On 20/06/2013 15:18, Encore Pianos wrote:

[Geoff Sykes]

Sounds like all your theories are guesswork. Have you asked anyone at the church what his sales pitch was? Have you tried to contact the tech to find out what he was trying to accomplish and why he chose that particular approach? I agree with the concerns that have already been voiced, but aside from actually defacing the visible underside of the lid, that constant heat on the lid my cause it to warp. I'd move it down underneath where it belongs.

-- Geoff

[Patrick Draine]

While I agree with the majority's "bad idea/best to move it" verdict, I can think of one anecdote case in which one would be tempted by such an application.

I had a client last year who got a terrific deal ($1500!) on a Steinway S, but when I opened it up, the inner lid was covered with a deep layer of fuzzy mold. I did my best to clean it up with some vacuuming, wiping with microfiber, and finished up with a finish cleanser from Cory products. Fortunately I didn't end with a colony in my lungs! A bit of dry heat might have inhibited the mold.

I hadn't seen such mold since my days (1978) working as a college tech outside Taipei on a damp misty mountain. 

Patrick