OnlyPure sequence?

[Jim Moy]

Hey you folks running OnlyPure, what sequence of notes are you using?

Per Kent's recent series in the PTJ, I bought the iOS version and
there is very little I've seen on what order of notes you're
"supposed" to use. I have a mental model for how TuneLab and Verituner
work, but none to guide me for how to best take advantage of
OnlyPure's algorithms.

So I'm right now I'm using the Verituner one: A4, A3, then A#3
chromatic to the top, then G#3 chromatic down. Usual checks, then
enjoy the smooth, aural drinkability :-)

Suggestions?

I suppose if I wait for the rest of Kent's series there will be more
light shed, but I'm part-time right now and so want to minimize the
experimentation and maximize the experience gathering.

Boy is that +/-5c display touchy!

-Jim

[Al Guecia/Allied PianoCraft]

There is no set up as in the other ETD’s. Just start a A0 and work you way up.

Al

High Point, NC

[Jim Moy]

Thanks, Al, that's interesting.

[Joseph Garrett]

Al,
Which will NOT produce an acceptable tuning imo!
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Guecia/Allied PianoCraft
Sent: Oct 1, 2017 12:58 PM
To: Pianotech Google
Subject: Re: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?

There is no set up as in the other ETD’s. Just start a A0 and work you way up.

Al

High Point, NC

On Oct 1, 2017, at 1:53 PM, Jim Moy <j...@moypiano.com> wrote:

Hey you folks running OnlyPure, what sequence of notes are you using?

Per Kent's recent series in the PTJ, I bought the iOS version and
there is very little I've seen on what order of notes you're
"supposed" to use. I have a mental model for how TuneLab and Verituner
work, but none to guide me for how to best take advantage of
OnlyPure's algorithms.

So I'm right now I'm using the Verituner one: A4, A3, then A#3
chromatic to the top, then G#3 chromatic down. Usual checks, then
enjoy the smooth, aural drinkability :-)

Suggestions?

I suppose if I wait for the rest of Kent's series there will be more
light shed, but I'm part-time right now and so want to minimize the
experimentation and maximize the experience gathering.

Boy is that +/-5c display touchy!

-Jim

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Allied PianoCraft]

Yes, I tend to agree, but it does an outstanding job on the last two treble octaves.

Al -

[Joseph Garrett]

Well, gee Al, that's all well and good for those avante guard pianists that only use those two octaves.<G>
Best,
Joe

[Allied PianoCraft]

😳

[Don]

Hi Jim,

The only pure does no measurements of the instrument. I do not understand how that is possible, but far better tuners (with minds beyond mine) say it is so.

 

Regards,
Don Rose
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
mailto:pian...@yahoo.com http://www.donrose.ca/
Box 37181, Regina, SK S4S 7K4
306-539-0716

---

From: Jim Moy <j...@moypiano.com>
To: "pian...@googlegroups.com" <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 1, 2017 12:02 PM
Subject: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?

Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Jason Kanter]

There's no way a tuning can start at A0 without any prior measurements, and wind up with A4 precisely at 440. It's like jumping over your own knees.

Jason Kanter 

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jason's cell 425 830 1561

[John Formsma]

I would tend to agree...unless the software doesn't rely on measurements to calculate its tuning. 

John Formsma, RPT

New Albany, MS

[Allied PianoCraft]

Exactly, it does not rely on measurements to calculate tunings.

Al -

[Leslie Bartlett]

Oh my I have not read recent Journals, and Swafford's is what I use with TL.I do know that not much needs changing from where I have evolved it, as I have heavy players who say it turns the piano into a whole new instrument from the default temperament which I used half a dozen times successfully for Houston symphony.
Les bartlett

-----Original Message-----
From: moyp...@gmail.com [mailto:moyp...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jim Moy
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 3:12 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?

[Patrick Poulson]

I seem to be way out of the loop, as I have no idea what "OnlyPure" is. Would someone care to enlighten me?

Thanks,

Patrick Poulson 

[Don]

Patrick,

It is a temperament based on attempting to use only pure 12ths.

 

Regards,
Don Rose
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
mailto:pian...@yahoo.com http://www.donrose.ca/
Box 37181, Regina, SK S4S 7K4
306-539-0716

---

From: Patrick Poulson <pcpo...@gmail.com>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?

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[Paul McCloud]

Actually, it is a software developed by Bernard Stopper. It has been out for years, but recently he's been working on an iOS version. I was a beta tester for the latest iOS software. I don't claim to know how it works, but it will not only tune a temperament, but the whole piano.
There are two versions out for iOS. There is no requirement for measuring for inharmonicity before tuning. You can start anywhere.
Yes, it is based upon a pure 12ths interval, which widens the temperament octave more than one normally would. A series of articles in the Journal is coming out from Kent Swafford about new methods of tuning that override the usual "let the piano tell you how it is to be tuned", and he was one of the original beta testers for OnlyPure, which spiked his interest in this. Kent is not only investigating the Pure 12ths tuning, but other tuning intervals as well. He gave a wonderful class about this in St. Louis this summer.
Other software vendors are now using the pure 12ths interval as an option, and it is being well received by many tuners.
Paul McCloud
San Diego

[Geoff Sykes]

Paul --

I was at the St Louis convention, (a truly great one), and I took Kent's class on pure 12th's, but I missed yours. Did you provide handouts for your class? Would it be possible to get a copy? I've tried it a couple of times in Veritune but I'm not convinced I'm doing it right. For example, I keep finding the temperament octave to be around 5¢ too wide with an undeniable beat. What am I doing wrong?

[Paul McCloud]

Geoff:
Uh, mistake. I didn't teach any class. Kent taught two sessions. I think they were two periods each. I confess a lot of it went over my head, but he's onto something. I wish I could help you, but in fact I'm the one who needs help! A few weeks ago, he posted something (I'll try to find it) about octave widths. I'm sure 5 cents is wayy too much. Have you seen the OnlyPure software up close? I found it challenging to use because the display is so sensitive, but if I took time to pursue it to the end, I really liked the result. It also helped me to listen more carefully to the actual sounds coming from the string as it decays. The other softwares seem to smooth things over, and so I didn't notice all the dynamics that were going on. I even used my SAT along with it to see if I could improve the result, and it did. It becomes like a vernier to really dial in the tuning. I wish I could get the Sandersons to come up with a P-12 tuning in the box.
Paul McCloud

[Don]

Hi Paul,

Reyburn Cyber Tuner used to have the ability to turn smoothing off. I don't know if that is still an option or not. I prefer it off.

 

Regards,
Don

Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
mailto:pian...@yahoo.com http://www.donrose.ca/
Box 37181, Regina, SK S4S 7K4
306-539-0716

---

From: Paul McCloud <pava...@gmail.com>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 10:03 AM

Subject: Re: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?

Geoff:

 Have you seen the OnlyPure software up close?  I found it challenging to use because the display is so sensitive, but if I took time to pursue it to the end, I really liked the result.  It also helped me to listen more carefully to the actual sounds coming from the string as it decays.  The other softwares seem to smooth things over, and so I didn't notice all the dynamics that were going on.  I even used my SAT along with it to see if I could improve the result, and it did.  It becomes like a vernier to really dial in the tuning.  I wish I could get the Sandersons to come up with a P-12 tuning in the box.
Paul McCloud

Paul --


I was at the St Louis convention, (a truly great one), and I took Kent's class on pure 12th's, but I missed yours. Did you provide handouts for your class? Would it be possible to get a copy? I've tried it a couple of times in Veritune but I'm not convinced I'm doing it right. For example, I keep finding the temperament octave to be around 5¢ too wide with an undeniable beat. What am I doing wrong?

Virus-free. www.avast.com

[Joseph Garrett]

I'd like to add my two cents. As I understand it and I'll readily admit I've just barely understood most of the process, the concept is to tune the piano as if it didn't have the inharmonicity that it does. i.e. tune it like a violin w/pure fifths, etc.
My take? Nice concept but physically impossible. Those that say it's good? Can't/won't comment on that.
Personally, I like pure fifths, but, in order to get the entire paino to not scream, I tend to tune as narrow as possible and still not have obnoxious thirds and sixths.
As we all know, you have ten tuners in a room, you have, at least, 20 different opinions.<G>
I do think the exercise is worth persuing, if you don't have a life and too much time on your hands.
Best,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Poulson
Sent: Oct 3, 2017 5:35 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?

I seem to be way out of the loop, as I have no idea what "OnlyPure" is. Would someone care to enlighten me?

Thanks,

Patrick Poulson 

On Oct 2, 2017 7:05 AM, "Leslie Bartlett" <l-bar...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Oh my I have not read recent Journals, and Swafford's is what I use with TL.I do know that not much needs changing from where I have evolved it, as I have heavy players who say it turns the piano into a whole new instrument from the default temperament which I used half a dozen times successfully for Houston symphony.
 Les bartlett

-----Original Message-----
From: moyp...@gmail.com [mailto:moyp...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jim Moy
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2017 3:12 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?

Thanks, Al, that's interesting.


On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Al Guecia/Allied PianoCraft <alliedpi...@outlook.com> wrote:
> There is no set up as in the other ETD’s. Just start a A0 and work you
> way up.
>
> Al
> High Point, NC
>
> On Oct 1, 2017, at 1:53 PM, Jim Moy <j...@moypiano.com> wrote:
>
> Hey you folks running OnlyPure, what sequence of notes are you using?
>
> Per Kent's recent series in the PTJ, I bought the iOS version and
> there is very little I've seen on what order of notes you're
> "supposed" to use. I have a mental model for how TuneLab and Verituner
> work, but none to guide me for how to best take advantage of
> OnlyPure's algorithms.
>
> So I'm right now I'm using the Verituner one: A4, A3, then A#3
> chromatic to the top, then G#3 chromatic down. Usual checks, then
> enjoy the smooth, aural drinkability :-)
>
> Suggestions?
>
> I suppose if I wait for the rest of Kent's series there will be more
> light shed, but I'm part-time right now and so want to minimize the
> experimentation and maximize the experience gathering.
>
> Boy is that +/-5c display touchy!
>
> -Jim
>

[Paul McCloud]

All I can say is, read Kent Swafford's ongoing articles in the Journal. Imposing a tuning with a wider width of the octave on a piano, regardless of the inharmonicity, is a different way than everybody's been doing it. In fact, it's not about an Octave as much as a consistent equal temperament through the whole piano. Like making marks on a bungee cord and stretching it. All the marks will end up equally distant from each other, no matter how much you stretch it. Crude analogy.
It is worth considering, and Kent is laying out the case. He's quite competent to explain what is going on, and it takes a careful read to comprehend it. You may like it, or not. The fact that RCT includes the P12th tuning, and that it is becoming popular, is an indication that there is something to it. But it's more than just the perfect 12th or 5th. There are even more possibilities of creating an equal tuning than what we've been taught and understand.
Cool stuff.
Regards,
Paul McCloud

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Garrett" <joega...@earthlink.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:09:57 PM
Subject: RE: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?

[Geoff Sykes]

Joe --

I was in Kent's class in St Louis. He started it out with a video of an Acrosonic spinet that had been tuned as pure 12th's. It was quite astonishing. After playing a short piece the person then played some random notes. The spinet still sounded like a horrible little piano, but the musical results of the pure 12th tuning were undeniable. I have, however, yet to try it personally so I don't have first hand experience. 

-- Geoff 

[Joseph Garrett]

Paul,
For the record, I've read the articles and understand them. I'm just not a fan of wide screaming octaves and such. The premise is flawed imo. And, I really don't care if it is becoming popular. I'll leave it to those who wish to mess around with it. When it becomes the "standard" and the exam is based on it, I'll give it another look. I'll probably be drooling in my pablum by that time.<G>

Best,
Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul McCloud <pava...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2017 11:54 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?
>

>All I can say is, read Kent Swafford's ongoing articles in the Journal. Imposing a tuning with a wider width of the octave on a piano, regardless of the inharmonicity, is a different way than everybody's been doing it. In fact, it's not about an Octave as much as a consistent equal temperament through the whole piano. Like making marks on a bungee cord and stretching it. All the marks will end up equally distant from each other, no matter how much you stretch it. Crude analogy.
>It is worth considering, and Kent is laying out the case. He's quite competent to explain what is going on, and it takes a careful read to comprehend it. You may like it, or not. The fact that RCT includes the P12th tuning, and that it is becoming popular, is an indication that there is something to it. But it's more than just the perfect 12th or 5th. There are even more possibilities of creating an equal tuning than what we've been taught and understand.
>Cool stuff.
>Regards,
>Paul McCloud
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Joseph Garrett" <joega...@earthlink.net>
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 8:09:57 PM

>Subject: RE: [pianotech] OnlyPure sequence?
>
>