Ballistol Voicing?

[Joseph Garrett]

Greg,

The one, main, question that has been rattling around is: What can be done to reverse the application of the Ballistol?

One of the prime requisites of my work is, if it is correctable/reversible. Example: If you use lacquer to bring up hammers, applying an acetone bath will, pretty much, negate the lacquer.

If the reverse is done with steam, to soften, the felt, a vigorous ironing will bring the hammers back quite a bit.

 With the addition of Ballistol, what is the "antidote"?<G>

For that matter, can you tell me, specifically, what Ballistol is made out of?

Best,

Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[piano+david]

There is some information about Ballistol here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistol

Oleic acid seems to be a major constituent.  But that doesn't really answer your question about reversibiliy!.

 

Best regards,

 

David Boyce.

[Joseph Garrett]

That's why I asked Doug. He has the science thang.<G> Just trying to keep an open mind on this.

Best,

joe

[John Rhodes]

Joe,

Olive Oil with perfume is a fair description of Ballistol.  If you consult Wikipedia on Olive Oil, you will find its primary constituent is Oleic Acid (55% - 83%).  I took a screenshot of the relevant part of Wikipedia's article and attached it to this post. 

Recall also that Ballistol was invented prior to WW1, and was in use by the German military by 1905.  Think about what alternatives to olive oil were available (basically none except plant oils, mineral oil, and whale oil).

So, when you contemplate reversibility -- a very important consideration I would add -- what can you do with a hammer which has been sprayed with olive oil?  

[Joseph Garrett]

O.k. I read the link in Wikipeidia. Following a few other links I see that the ingredients are medical grade Mineral Oil, Oleic Acid, (oil), and Alcohol. All of which are soluble in several solutions, such as Naptha, Alcohol, Mineral Spirits and, I suspect  Lacquer thinner and Acetone.

It appears that because of this info, I've gotten my answer to the reversibility of this. <G> 

All interesting stuff. I'll wait for Doug's response though.<G>

Best,

Joe

[Joseph Garrett]

John,

I would probably do the same thing if I spilled Olive Oil on a wool blanket...reach for the Perk!

Best,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: John Rhodes
Sent: Jun 22, 2015 11:57 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Ballistol Voicing?

[Mike Spalding]

On 6/22/2015 1:57 PM, John Rhodes wrote:
> So, when you contemplate reversibility -- a very important
> consideration I would add -- what can you do with a hammer which has
> been sprayed with olive oil?

Sautee with garlic??

[Joseph Garrett]

Sigh. There's always one. LOL
Best,
Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Spalding <mike.sp...@frontier.com>
>Sent: Jun 22, 2015 12:07 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Ballistol Voicing?
>

[Mark Schecter]

I have a question about Ballistol. Having been duly and truly warned about the destruction oil can wreak on bass strings, which for safety's sake I have taken to include all oils, how can fatty oil-soaked hammers not wreck bass strings? Thanks. 

Mark Schecter

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[rnos...@cox.net]

---- John Rhodes <jdlmr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> Olive Oil with perfume is a fair description of Ballistol.

Or, were one (or two) to look up the MSDS for Ballistol, one might read that it's primarily white mineral oil. Olive oil would HAVE to be tastier, but that would be the Italian version.
Ron N

[AMari...@aol.com]

ballistol with garlic over linguini???  Tasty!  Maybe add some anchovies.

[Douglas Gregg]

Sorry for not answering the questions sooner. But, my son from CA,
showed up on my doorstep on Father's day totally unexpected, at least
by me. We had a great visit for two days .

About Ballistol:

The formula is still a secret. It is made from coal and they bought a
coal mine in Germany just to insure a good supply. It is much more
refined than coal oil that I have seen. I don't think an MSDS report
will yield enough chemistry about the product to be useful. It is a
very thin oil and is water miscible. I think that is important because
it does not displace moisture in hammers but mixes with it. I was at
first hesitant to use it on bass hammers for fear it might damage the
strings. I approached this cautiously and after two years of treating
bass hammers more and more, I am comfortable that there is no ill
effect. Any Ballistol that is transferred to strings is minuscule and
does have an effect on the strings. The only effect I have noticed is
with very corroded (green) bass strings. Some of the green corrosion
is dissolved and will transfer to the strike point on the hammers
leaving a green line. Sometimes that is actually helpful in aligning
hammers. This is in pianos that really need new bass strings and
usually new hammers as well.

I generally don't find many bass hammers that need voicing down except
in Asian pianos. With these, I am generous with the Ballistol and the
effect is usually remarkably good compared to any other voicing
methods. If in other pianos, there are a few bright hammers, I will
just as likely give it an angel shot and that is all that is needed.

I find that the forte is not affect much by Ballistol treatment. It
softens for pianissimo and piano. Forte stays about the same. Can you
voice them up after treatment. Yes. I have done that on a couple of
occasions. Most times, a few hard test blows while damping the strings
with my finger near the strike point will brighten up the hammers
sufficiently. I a couple pianos I have been asked to brighten some
bass notes selectively and found that they respond to keycap in
acetone the same as any hammers.

Do I apply Ballistol to the shoulders. NO. It is so thin, it soaks
into the hammer and probably does not stay in one spot. Again, it does
little to reduce Forte.I usually like to keep as much power in the
forte as possible anyway. I find that reassuring as it is nearly
impossible to overdo Ballistol treatment. The most that happens with
heavy treatment is a better bloom in the sound due to the increased
resilience of the hammer IMO.

I hope that is reassuring. I think you can experiment with confidence
that you will do no harm and will always make an improvement. I can't
remember a time that I felt I had gone too far and could not easily
reverse it if necessary. Reversing is rare and no problem.

One, thing. Check to see if they are jazz musicians before even
recommending voicing down. I do vividly remember suggesting hat I
voice down an Asian grand and mentioning that it sounded like a
typical Asian piano and then realized I was talking to a Japanese
woman. Woops. She took it OK. She did like it bright though and I did
not pursue it.

Doug Gregg

[Mark Schecter]

Doug, thanks for your comments re Ballistol and bass strings. It makes me wonder what is the characteristic of some oil or oils that deserves such strong cautions. Is it their chemistry, viscosity, additives, or what? I have carefully avoided any oil use near bass strings, thus have no experience to apply to answering my own question. Any further thoughts you might have on the general question would be appreciated. Thanks. 

Mark Schecter

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[Douglas Gregg]

Oils that get between the copper windings and also around the core can
dampen and even kill a bass string. If dirt sticks to it, it will do
the same.

Just for experimental purposes, I have totally wet a set of bass
strings with Ballistol. I did dampen the sound somewhat. I then heated
the strings with a torch until the Ballistol fumed off. There was a
great improvement in the sound. Mostly it from burning off lots of
contaminants such as tar and nicotine in old strings. I think the
Ballistol removed some of the corrosion and was also a useful
indicator of temperature when torching strings. This is a subject for
another day, but old strings can be rejuvinated this way. I have
submitted an article to the Journal on this.

Doug Gregg