Quick hammer hardening methods?

[David Boyce]

I've heard tell in the past of using spray hair laquer to brighten
hammers. It's not something I've ever tried though.

The school I'm at was given a piano by another school, but the head of
music viewed it with disgust as it was so soft and mushy. It's just a
forty year old Welmar, like all the other school pianos. No doubt a new
set of hammers would work wonders, but that's not an option. Today I
filed and ironed the hammers, and also adjusted the negative lost
motion. These steps have made a considerable improvement, and no doubt
tuning will also help the perception of the voicing. As it is, the
piano would be quite a nice accompaniment piano, But for what the head
of music wants to hear, it still needs a little extra brightness, a
little more hardness.

What might you recommend to achieve this? Hairpray?

Best regards,

David B.

[David Kroenlein]

I've used hairspray in the past with mixed results--it does t really penetrate into the hammers enough--i now use keytop and acetone mixture that works better

--

Sent from Gmail Mobile

[Don]

Hi David,

Try adding some mass to the hammer shank with a clip.

 

Regards,
Don Rose
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
mailto:pian...@yahoo.com http://www.donrose.ca/
Box 37181, Regina, SK S4S 7K4
306-539-0716

---

[David Boyce]

On 03/03/2017 19:20, David Kroenlein wrote:

> I've used hairspray in the past with mixed results--it does t really
> penetrate into the hammers enough--i now use keytop and acetone
> mixture that works better

Thanks for that, David. How do you apply it?

David B.

[David Kroenlein]

I apply it right on the striking point and use a hairdryer to dry it

[David Boyce]

On 03/03/2017 19:36, David Kroenlein wrote:

> I apply it right on the striking point and use a hairdryer to dry it

Thanks for that. Do you paint it on with a small brush, or drip iton
from a dispensing bottle of some kind?

David B.

[David Boyce]

On 03/03/2017 19:23, 'Don' via pianotech wrote:

Hi David,

Try adding some mass to the hammer shank with a clip.

 

Regards,
Don Rose
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
mailto:pian...@yahoo.com http://www.donrose.ca/
Box 37181, Regina, SK S4S 7K4
306-539-0716

 

Thanks for the suggestion - I have some small clips, so I will experiment.

David B.

[David Kroenlein]

I use s hypo needle or bottle

[Joseph Garrett]

Have the "head of the music department" get some hearing aids!<G>
I use sanding sealer, (lacquer w/rice solids as a filler), thinned in acetone. Make sure you ventilate the area while using. It will be usable w/in an hour or so. It will, however continue to harden forever. Because of the way sanding sealer sets, you can still get needles in, if voicing down becomes necessary.
Personally, most pianos are far too bright/harsh, etc. and need to be lessened in their sound. Unfortunately, it's what people have gotten used to hearing. Good luck.
Best,
Joe


Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Joseph Garrett]

I hope your Fire Insurance is paid up! Yikes! Acetone & a hair dryer is just asking for disaster dude!
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Kroenlein
Sent: Mar 3, 2017 11:36 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quick hammer hardening methods?

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:35 PM David Boyce <Da...@piano.plus.com> wrote:

On 03/03/2017 19:20, David Kroenlein wrote:

> I've used hairspray in the past with mixed results--it does t really
> penetrate into the hammers enough--i now use keytop and acetone
> mixture that works better

Thanks for that, David.  How do you apply it?

David B.

I apply it right on the striking point and use a hairdryer to dry it

--

Sent from Gmail Mobile

[David Kroenlein]

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 2:19 PM Joseph Garrett <joega...@earthlink.net> wrote:

I hope your Fire Insurance is paid up! Yikes! Acetone & a hair dryer is just asking for disaster dude!
Joe

    Low setting-----Original Message----- 

From: David Kroenlein
Sent: Mar 3, 2017 11:36 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quick hammer hardening methods?

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:35 PM David Boyce <Da...@piano.plus.com> wrote:

On 03/03/2017 19:20, David Kroenlein wrote:

> I've used hairspray in the past with mixed results--it does t really
> penetrate into the hammers enough--i now use keytop and acetone
> mixture that works better

Thanks for that, David.  How do you apply it?

David B.

I apply it right on the striking point and use a hairdryer to dry it

--

Sent from Gmail Mobile

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[David Boyce]

On reflection, there is a slight sluggishness in the action, as the
piano has not been much used for quite a time, as far as I know. It's
possible that an application of Protek CLP to action centres (the wippen
centres are tightest, I think) might change things just by freeing up
the action. I will spend some more time on the piano next week, and let
you know what happens.

Best regards,

David.

[Joseph Garrett]

David,
Even on a "low setting" you are asking for trouble. It's the same as a natural gas leak! All it takes is one spark and ....whoosh! So much for your eye brows, etc.! DAMHIK!
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Kroenlein
Sent: Mar 3, 2017 12:20 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quick hammer hardening methods?

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 2:19 PM Joseph Garrett <joega...@earthlink.net> wrote:

I hope your Fire Insurance is paid up! Yikes! Acetone & a hair dryer is just asking for disaster dude!
Joe
    Low setting-----Original Message----- 

From: David Kroenlein
Sent: Mar 3, 2017 11:36 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quick hammer hardening methods?

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 1:35 PM David Boyce <Da...@piano.plus.com> wrote:

On 03/03/2017 19:20, David Kroenlein wrote:

> I've used hairspray in the past with mixed results--it does t really
> penetrate into the hammers enough--i now use keytop and acetone
> mixture that works better

Thanks for that, David.  How do you apply it?

David B.

I apply it right on the striking point and use a hairdryer to dry it

--

Sent from Gmail Mobile

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

--

Sent from Gmail Mobile

[David Kroenlein]

Good point

David kroenlein

[Douglas Gregg]

I have used clear lacquer in a spray can. Works well and readily available.  No perfumes either.  Cheap stuff is better than thick variety.

Doug gregg

[Joseph Garrett]

Try and get a needle in them suckers, 3 months down the road!
Joe

[David Boyce]

Thanks for that suggestion, Doug.  Once I have tuned the piano, and applied Protek CLP to the slightly sluggish action centres, if the tone still feels a little soft, I will give the spray lacquer a try.

Best regards,

David B.

[Joseph Garrett]

David,
Try ironing first, please.Mating hammers to strings, i.e. leveling strings & hammer mating, (as in proper traveling and good overall regulation.
Lacquer kills hammers. There are better ways.
Best,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Boyce
Sent: Mar 5, 2017 10:39 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quick hammer hardening methods?

[David Boyce]

Hi Joe, as reported in my original post, I've already filed and ironed the hammers of this upright piano.  There is a little sluggishness in the action as I think the piano has not had much use for a long time.  Once I heave dealt with that, and tuned it, we shall see how it feels and sounds.

I've never used any kind of preparation on piano hammers, nothing apart from ironing (and needling of course). So I lack experience in this area.

Best regards,

David B.

[Joseph Garrett]

David,
If you moisten the hammers and then do a high heat ironing, it will shrink the felt and make it more dense. "high heat" is almost to the point of scorching. Getting my hammer iron to that setting is a bit tricky, but doable with a good rheostat in line from the power source. (Light dimmers work for that. I mount it all in a double electrical box with a double plug-in and the dimmer.)
Best,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Boyce
Sent: Mar 5, 2017 10:59 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quick hammer hardening methods?

[David Boyce]

Oh that's interesting, thanks Joe. I've done high heat ironing in the
past, but not with the moiture element. I'll try it! Just moisten with
a spray bottle of watter?

David B.

[Joseph Garrett]

Yes

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Boyce <Da...@piano.plus.com>
>Sent: Mar 5, 2017 1:04 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Quick hammer hardening methods?
>

[Douglas Gregg]

Joe, 

How is clear lacquer different than keycap in acetone in your mind. I do the voicing judiciously as I would use keycap and acetone and see no difference in the effect except for the odor. I do prefer acetone to lacquer thinner especially in a client's house but it works fine. I like to use a straw and spray top from my Ballistol can to put it exactly where I want it. Generally, I am putting the lacquer on the shoulders of the hammer. A quick squirt at a time. 

Doug Gregg

[Joseph Garrett]

Doug,
Lacquer, (and I thin with acetone), penetrates the felt. Keytop material and acetone, leaves the keytop material on the surface of the hammer.(for the most part) Each has it's place, depending on what you want to accomplish. However, I like to do the LEAST invasive techniques first. There are reversal techniques for most "hammer treatments". Some are less effective than others. Lacquer is the most difficult to reverse imo. Key top material and needling would be the second least reversible imo. Usually, we are trying to solve scaling problems with the hammer treatments. That includes the entire sound production structure.
IMO, leave the hammers alone and fix the REAL problem!

Best,
Joe

[Douglas Gregg]

Joe,

I don't see why you think that key top material stays on the surface. It is carried into the felt just the same a lacquer thinned with acetone or lacquer thinner. The pigment may stay on the top but the nitrocellulose totally dissolved and that does most of the voicing.

 I voice just about every piano I work on and have used just about every technique in the book and then some-especially Ballistol voicing that I published twice.  It does a great job for voicing down even with hardened hammers. Of course there are limits.

Doug Gregg 

[Joseph Garrett]

Doug,
Because I use acetone. It flashes very fast and you can see it only goes so far. After it has had some time to "set", I can  feel where it landed by single needle probing. It, generally only is in the top 1/16" the way I do it. I use the keytop solution to add impact. I hope that clarifies my response. I use a 10 or 12 to 1 lacquer to get shoulder support and occasionally some extreme treble voicing. As for the Ballestol, I'll leave that one to you. <G>
Best,
joe