Rescaling Question

[Regi Hedahl]

Rescaling Question

This is a 5'2" Hamilton with 26 notes on the bass bridge and a hockey stick long bridge. The lowest plain string (note 27) only has a tension of 117 lbs. Which option would sound more pleasing.

1. Substitute Paulello low tensile strength wire for those lowest plain strings.
2. Convert to wound bichords from note 27 to around E3.

Thanks,

Regi

[Mike Spalding]

1. I have no experience with the Paulello wire.

2.  On a similar piano, Schultz 5'2", I converted 5 or 6 low tenor notes to wound strings on an auxiliary bridge, and the results were more than satisfactory.

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[Dale Fox]

Hi Regi,

You might entertain some combination of hybrid core wire along with going bichord.   The problem with bichords on a scale like this is needing an extremely small wrap toward the higher end of the grouping that may not be possible to wind reliably. I've used both methods and have always been happier with bichords over unwrapped hybrid wire.

Is your string maker by any chance John Schenke at JD Grandt?  He would be a good person to advise on this.

Dale Fox RPT

Newly relocated to North Carolina.

(Formerly of Sacramento chapter.)

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From: pian...@googlegroups.com <pian...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mike Spalding <mike.sp...@frontier.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 8:53:52 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Rescaling Question

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pianotech/af01d339-e021-a7d7-8482-8198c3d9c8cd%40frontier.com.

[Regi Hedahl]

Hi Dale,

I've been using Gregor Heller from Germany since I've gotten good at working with him over the years.

I've used both methods and have always been happier with bichords over unwrapped hybrid wire.

Thanks for confirming what I had suspected.  After running the numbers both ways, the benefits by converting to bichords seems to outweight unwrapped hybrid wire.  

You might entertain some combination of hybrid core wire along with going bichord

This is exactly what I plan to do.  I will convert to wrapped bichords and then use Paulello Type O starting with F3.

-Regi

[Dale Fox]

I'm sure Herr Heller is a good resource!

Best regards,

Dale

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From: pian...@googlegroups.com <pian...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Regi Hedahl <piano...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2022 2:04:45 PM
To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [pianotech] Rescaling Question

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[Joe Garrett]

Regi,

Leave it alone!

One question I ask people in this regard: "How did it sound BEFORE you yanked all the wire off?" Almost all give me the "deer in the headlights" look. They did not assess the piano in the "before" stage of this "rebuild".

For a definitive answer, however: Add the tension of the first bi-chord and divide by 3. The result should be close to each other. If they aren't, then modify, (not a "rescale", just a modification).

Best,

Joe

Captain of the Tool Police

Squares R I

gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
From: <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Nov 14, 2022 9:34 PM
To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: [pianotech] Rescaling Question

 

Rescaling Question

This is a 5'2" Hamilton with 26 notes on the bass bridge and a hockey stick long bridge. The lowest plain string (note 27) only has a tension of 117 lbs. Which option would sound more pleasing.

1. Substitute Paulello low tensile strength wire for those lowest plain strings.
2. Convert to wound bichords from note 27 to around E3.

 

Thanks,

Regi

 

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[Terry Farrell]

I have a client with a 90-year-old S&S M. It is in good original condition.

My tuning history with it is as follows:

11/18 tune + pitch raise (not sure how much)

1/20 tune + pitch raise of 20 cents

7/22 tune + pitch raise of 10 to 20 cents

11/22 tune + pitch lower of 5c bass, 0 to 5c low tenor, 5c upper tenor, 10c low treble and 15c high treble

Here in central Florida I find that pitch varies close to zero on almost all pianos. This piano is located in a lovely 23-year old home with central humidity control that is kept at 45 to 50% RH.

I have a number of pianos that I tune once every year that really don’t even need a tuning - they are close to spot-on. I have no other piano that I see regularly that varies in pitch like this one.

Any ideas?

Terry Farrell
Tampa Bay, Florida

[David Kroenlein]

Losing crown?

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David kroenlein

[w]

Terry

When you did the pitch raise on 11/17, I assume you tuned it to 440 before you left, and I assume the pin block is tight up and down. But you didn't say how far off it was off, and how long it had been since it was tuned. Even at that, some instability is expected, especially if there were temperature changes of greater than 20 degrees and/or humidity. The same could have happened at each of the follow up tunings.  I would schedule another tuning in February and look at the stability again.

Wim 

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[Don]

Terry,

Lots of crown on that board! Sustain may be excellent.

Add a dehumidifier with humidistat

Regards,
Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T.
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
mailto:pian...@yahoo.com http://www.donrose.ca/
Box 37181, Regina, SK S4S 7K4
306-539-0716

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[Regi Hedahl]

Joe,

The original bass strings have gotten tubby so they need to be replaced anyways.  With what we know today, I'm pretty confident that the scaling can at least be improved so I'm going to do it.  Before pulling off the old strings, I will make sure to record the before and after like what I did on this Baldwin L. 

https://youtu.be/Rq320DzlAxE

-Regi

[Joe Garrett]

Regi,

I would suggest rolling and twisting the first couple of tenor strings to get an idea of the transition.

Best,

Joe

Captain of the Tool Police

Squares R I

gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
From: <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Nov 20, 2022 6:32 AM
To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Rescaling Question

 

Joe,

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[John Ashcraft]

Regi, if rolling and twisting doesn't restore a good tone to the old strings (as Joe suggests), I have had great success acid washing bass strings.  You can get recipes from several sources; I use a mix of phosphoric acid and vinegar, heat the string in the acid for around 20 minutes, rinse, neutralize, rinse thoroughly,  and dry well. The strings look and sound like new,  but the removal weakens the wire a bit, especially the old beckets. I break them off and make a new bend.