Emralon?

127 views
Skip to first unread message

Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 17, 2016, 5:57:00 PM8/17/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
After 20+ years, my supply of Emralon has depleted! I googled it and got way more hits than I wanted/needed or understood. I'm wondering if anyone can pin down the specific "number" that I got? As far as I recall, the stuff I have is basically teflon suspended in nitrocellulose lacquer. I use it for quite a few things where there is a friction issue. And I use it for mold release when epoxy bedding of pinblocks. So, I need more.
Next question is: where can I get it, once I specify exactly what it is. Orrrrr.....a good substitute?
Best,
Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com


David Skolnik

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 6:07:01 AM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Hey Joe -
First (in case I decide to go back to sleep), here's this:
http://www.russprodco.com/Permalon.php
This is where I found it when I couldn't get it from Schaff.


A year or so ago, I knew/remembered more, after I went through the unsuccessful attempt to find a liquid form of the product (you know, as an 'other coast' environmentalist) but, as you've seen from your searches, it all leads back to Henkel's ownership of Acheson Colloid
Anti-Friction Coatings
Acheson Emralon, Molydag and DAG coatings take on intricate lubrication jobs in countless hidden situations - from aircraft to toasters, automobiles to pianos, printer rollers and belts to precision parts. Acheson's Emralon weatherstrip coatings are widely used on automotive sealing systems.

http://www.henkel-adhesives.com/industrial/brands-5497.htm?countryCode=com&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=8000000380&redDotUID=8000000380&brand=000000QVER

There are probably plenty of 'good substitutes', but they're mainly only available as industrial products, in industrial quantities. 
Thanks for the reminder... I need to restock my own 20 year supply.

Regards -
David Skolnik
Hastings on Hudson, NY
Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com



Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 10:57:48 AM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
David,
Those are not what I'm looking for. The permalon is in an alcohol suspension. The Acheson thingee is a dry form. I'm looking for teflon in a nitrocellulose carrrier/suspension.
Thanks for the effort though. If/when I find it, (in reasonable quantities), I'll post it.
Best,
Joe

Ron Nossaman

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 11:43:18 AM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
On 8/18/2016 9:57 AM, Joseph Garrett wrote:
> David,
> Those are not what I'm looking for. The permalon is in an alcohol
> suspension.

Shaff sells Permalon 327, which they indicate was formerly "Emralon".
Ron N



Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 12:33:08 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Hmmm? I'm not finding it in their most recent catalogue. Lot's of "McLube" stuff, etc. All in spray cans, which I don't want. Just bulk Emralon is what I'm trying to find.
Best,
Joe


Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com


-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Nossaman <rnos...@cox.net>
>Sent: Aug 18, 2016 11:42 AM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?
>

David Skolnik

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 1:18:42 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Joe -
Schaff discontinued Permalon in 2009.  Russell has discontinued the regular Permalon and has almost no inventory.  They still have some of the Permalon M, which is a molybdenum disulfide lube (like McLube 1708L).  With all the high-tech advances is coatings and lubricants, what's available to the small business or consumer has diminished.  Based upon a few hours research, I would venture to say that you will not find bulk emralon... at least not at any price or quantity that would fit your budget.

David S

Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 1:43:14 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
David,
All good to know. Except the last sentence. IF I were to find a quantity that could be shared, then I would, with a few commitments purchase a large quantity. I do this with top quality Hide Glue. I may do it for a lifetime supply of brass spring stock for Square Grands.
At this point I just want to find the product. I don't give a rip what the quantity is.
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Skolnik

David Skolnik

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 3:18:12 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
OK.  Two possible products:
Emralon 309 - an alcohol base or Emralon 329 - acetone.  I'm waiting for the product sheet for the 309, but here's the one for 329.
http://www.silmid.com/MetaFiles/Silmid/76/76bbec18-c2ec-49c9-a8fa-260b81821cbe.pdf

Cost for #309, with tax & shipping (35 lb. pail) would probably be $900 - $950. 
ds

Stephen Grattan

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 3:28:24 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com

OK.  Emralon is now known as Bonderite.  It was formally made in Port Huron, Michigan, two miles from my home.  Henkel bought the company a few years ago for $750 million and closed it.  Here is their contact info.



Industrial > BONDERITE S-FN 333 DRYFILM COATING ACHESON ...

... Back to Overview. BONDERITE S-FN 333 DRYFILM COATING ACHESON.
(Known as Emralon 333 ). BONDERITE® S-FN ...



Steve Grattan


From: David Skolnik <davids...@optonline.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 3:31:15 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
David,
I think we have a winner. IF, "thermoplasic resin" translates into "Lacquer". It even lists "piano parts" as one of it's applications! Now, I need to find out what it's going to cost. After my lunch perhaps.
Best,

Stephen Grattan

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 3:32:53 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Joe or anyone,

 I may have a source.  What number emralon was it.  Ws it graphite or something else?
Steve Grattan


From: Joseph Garrett <joega...@earthlink.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

David Skolnik

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 4:00:54 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Steve -
I've spoken now with Henkel and Palmer-Holland, and left a message for Krayden.  Are your sources other than these? 
While it's helpful to have the list of various products, the page they link to brings up the SDS's, (Safety Data Sheets), but not the TDS's (Technical Data Sheets) which is what would indicate differences or applicability.  If you've waded through and located that, please tell.
David Skolnik



At 03:32 PM 8/18/2016, you wrote:
Joe or anyone,

 I may have a source.  What number emralon was it.  Ws it graphite or something else?
Steve Grattan



Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 4:06:15 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Graphite?!! Are you nuts? That's the last thing in the world to be used in a piano....EVER! Hate that stuff. However, I'll abstain from telling you what I really think.<G>
Best,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Grattan
Sent: Aug 18, 2016 12:32 PM
To: "pian...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

Joe or anyone,

 I may have a source.  What number emralon was it.  Ws it graphite or something else?
Steve Grattan


Stephen Grattan

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 4:16:13 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
OK, I spoke with a chemist that made the stuff and it was Acheson Colloids Permalon 327.  The lubricant was Teflon.  There were several compounds made.  Some required baking to set it.  Some were air dried.  Some could be hand applied and allowed to dry which took a considerable amount of time.  It has been discontinued in the forms we used to purchase it in.  My source will give me some of what he has if you want to try it.  Let me know, Joe.

Steve Grattan


Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 4:17:14 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Non of those listed is what I'm looking for. Alcohol based is out imo.
Thanks for the info.
Best,
joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Grattan
Sent: Aug 18, 2016 12:28 PM
To: "pian...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 4:20:16 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Stephan,
Bring it on!<G> I'm willing to test anything that MIGHT do the job. If someone is willing to send some samples I'm good!<G>
Best,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Grattan
Sent: Aug 18, 2016 1:16 PM
To: "pian...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

OK, I spoke with a chemist that made the stuff and it was Acheson Colloids Permalon 327.  The lubricant was Teflon.  There were several compounds made.  Some required baking to set it.  Some were air dried.  Some could be hand applied and allowed to dry which took a considerable amount of time.  It has been discontinued in the forms we used to purchase it in.  My source will give me some of what he has if you want to try it.  Let me know, Joe.

Steve Grattan


From: Joseph Garrett <joega...@earthlink.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

Graphite?!! Are you nuts? That's the last thing in the world to be used in a piano....EVER! Hate that stuff. However, I'll abstain from telling you what I really think.<G>
Best,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Grattan
Sent: Aug 18, 2016 12:32 PM
To: "pian...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

Joe or anyone,

 I may have a source.  What number emralon was it.  Ws it graphite or something else?
Steve Grattan


From: Joseph Garrett <joega...@earthlink.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

David,
I think we have a winner. IF, "thermoplasic resin" translates into "Lacquer". It even lists "piano parts" as one of it's applications! Now, I need to find out what it's going to cost. After my lunch perhaps.
Best,
Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Skolnik
Sent: Aug 18, 2016 12:18 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

Stephen Grattan

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 4:23:04 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Where do I send it?   It is made in a small company by a chemist that was tired of the bs he was getting at work.  He started his own company making similar products - to a point.  I will get a sample and send it to you.
 
Steve Grattan


Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Emralon?

Joseph Garrett

unread,
Aug 18, 2016, 4:57:13 PM8/18/16
to pian...@googlegroups.com
All of my particulars are in the Directory or oregonpianotuner.com.
Thanks,
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages