Soft Yamaha hammers

[Wim Blees]

6 months ago I tuned a Yamaha GP1, a 4'10" grand, that had been sitting in an empty house close to the ocean for about 6 years. It was moved to a church about 4 miles from the Ocean. When I tuned it, the hammers were on the soft side. Not at all like a typical Yamaha sound. I attributed the soft hammers to an excessive amount of humidity.

I am now tuning the piano again, but the hammers are still soft. How can I add more volume to them? How do you harden Yamaha hammers?

Wim

Sent from my iPhone

[Dale Erwin]

Perhaps after all these years they are listening to the general publics complaint of to D_ _ _ Loud and are now offering a piano that will produce  a warmer sound. They have been working with the Wieckert felt for a new product line for some time now. Of course the other possibility is that they outsourced hammer making to someplace whose quality control is not so hot.

Dale Erwin-Erwins Piano Restoration

WWW.Erwinspiano.com

209-577-8397

Modesto,Calif.

[Joseph Garrett]

Wim,
Can you Say: Iron Them?<G> That would be my first approach. Second would be
reinforcing the shoulders. However, why screw up what is now perfectly
good set of hammers?<G> Just voice for power, (after the ironing), and be
happy the damned thing isn't knocking your ear off!
Best,
Joe

Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
http://gpianoworks.com/


> [Original Message]
> From: Wim Blees <tnr...@aol.com>
> To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: 5/29/2013 12:35:34 PM
> Subject: [ptech] Soft Yamaha hammers

[Dale Erwin]

 Wim

 Joe has made a viable suggestion. Anything that re-enforces the solidity of the strike area will give it more ping and hence the perception of more clarity. Don't forget the first parts of voicing ie string level hammer mating. This will always be foundational. Tone in my simple definition is boom, clang and ping and a bit of sizzle, although I don't care for too much  ping or sizzle.  Everyones preference to the proportions of these frequencies varies as we all know. 

 Try a very light filing with 600 to 800 grit sandpaper paddle. Pound the note about 20 times holding the string under your finger. This packs in the top. If that helps a further light ironing may help. This bring up the ping and perhaps a bit of clang  (the mid range partials.) To bring up and balance all the partials further may require an application of stiffening agent (lac,plastic, whatever) in the low shoulders. Probe this area with a number 5 or 6 needle and get  a sense of the density. If this area is really flabby and soft. douse with a 3 to 1 lacquer/stiff plastic/whatever. I personally do  try to keep it below 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock. If I have gained enough in tonal presence with these 3 measure then the rest of the tone IMO should be built up by using the lost art and concept of............. playing it in. Capishce

 Voicing is a result driven process. Let this sink in. There are no magic formulas just voicing basic techniques based on the needs of the client,piano,hammers and the room.

LEt us know what you do.  K?

Dale Erwin-Erwins Piano Restoration

WWW.Erwinspiano.com

209-577-8397

Modesto,Calif.

[Wim Blees]

Joe

I know about ironing. I just wanted to make that is the correct procedure to bring some life to Yamaha hammers.

I don't like the glass hammers usually found on these instruments, but these don't even sound nice. Way too soft, even for a well voiced piano.

Wim

Sent from my iPhone

[Wim Blees]

Dale. 

I don't think these are Weikert, or any other brand. They just sound bad. 

Wim

Sent from my iPhone

[Joseph Garrett]

Wim,
Dale said it best. And, in the right order. It's the way I'd go. Be aware
that the reason for hard hammers is an overly-stiff resonating body...i.e.
soundboard, bridges, high tension scale, etc. Not to mention all that
"select hardwood".<G>
Your assessment of why the hammers are the way they are is spot on imo. I
had a similar situation with a P2 that had been in a fire. The hammers were
somewhat softened by the steam of putting the fire out, (in a gymnasium),
but were further softened by some good Samaritan opening the piano, to "let
it air out", while it was languishing in the parking lot. It rained! <G>
Best sounding Yamama ever! 'cept was a bit subdued. So, I ironed the
hammers, surfaced them and did a slight shoulder reinforcing, (think the
old grey reinforcing of years gone by), with lacquer. That brought the
hammers up to a good level of projection/power and produced a sweet sound
that I'd never heard out of a Yamama before. (btw, this was years ago and
the piano belongs to my daughter now.) Certainly was a major lesson in
hammers<G>
Best Regards,

Joe

Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
http://gpianoworks.com/


> [Original Message]
> From: Wim Blees <tnr...@aol.com>

> To: pian...@googlegroups.com <pian...@googlegroups.com>
> Date: 5/29/2013 8:18:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [ptech] Soft Yamaha hammers

>
> Joe
>
> I know about ironing. I just wanted to make that is the correct procedure
to bring some life to Yamaha hammers.
>
> I don't like the glass hammers usually found on these instruments, but
these don't even sound nice. Way too soft, even for a well voiced piano.
>

> Wim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

> On May 29, 2013, at 1:52 PM, "Joseph Garrett" <joega...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
> > Wim,
> > Can you Say: Iron Them?<G> That would be my first approach. Second
would be
> > reinforcing the shoulders. However, why screw up what is now perfectly
> > good set of hammers?<G> Just voice for power, (after the ironing), and
be
> > happy the damned thing isn't knocking your ear off!
> > Best,
> > Joe
> >
> > Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
> > Captain of the Tool Police
> > Squares R I
> > http://gpianoworks.com/
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Wim Blees <tnr...@aol.com>
> >> To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
> >> Date: 5/29/2013 12:35:34 PM
> >> Subject: [ptech] Soft Yamaha hammers
> >>

[Joseph Garrett]

Don't think he said they could be anything like that. Just said that Yamaha has finally awakened to the complaints of hammers the density of ball peen hammers making ungodly sounds on a perfectly decent piano. If the hammer needs 50 strokes of a needle on each shoulder, it's not a hammer...it's a piece of rock, imo. Sheesh!

Joe

 

Joe Garrett, R.P.T.

Captain of the Tool Police

Squares R I

http://gpianoworks.com/

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Wim Blees

To: pian...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 5/29/2013 8:39:17 PM

Subject: Re: [ptech] Soft Yamaha hammers

Dale. 

I don't think these are Weikert, or any other brand. They just sound bad. 

Wim

Sent from my iPhone

On May 29, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Dale Erwin <da...@erwinspiano.com> wrote:

Perhaps after all these years they are listening to the general publics complaint of to D_ _ _ Loud and are now offering a piano that will produce  a warmer sound. They have been working with the Wieckert felt for a new product line for some time now. Of course the other possibility is that they outsourced hammer making to someplace whose quality control is not so hot.

Dale Erwin-Erwins Piano Restoration

WWW.Erwinspiano.com

209-577-8397

Modesto,Calif.

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Wim Blees <tnr...@aol.com> wrote:

[Isaac OLEG]

Hammer salvage fluid n°1 was aceton keytop solution some time ago , dosed with a brush, it allow some voicing on older Yamaha hammers.

To be kept soft enough - I prefer other fluids actually.

[Isaac OLEG]

more suited for uprights anyway. even with Weickert, the power must be good there is always enough material and density under the crown on Yamaha hammers.

[Dale Erwin]

Wim

 so exactly how do you describe a tone that sound bad. Please use common words. Dull,muddy,

 Let me ask. Does it have sustain? Does the string pluck show any life? what does the density fell like when probed with a needle.

 I'm not saying brand but the felt.  Certainly these hammers can't be softer than many Stwy hammers which can be brought up and sound really good with the correct call on the amount of solution injected.

Dale

Dale. 

I don't think these are Weikert, or any other brand. They just sound bad. 

Dale Erwin-Erwins Piano Restoration

WWW.Erwinspiano.com

209-577-8397

Modesto,Calif.

[Isaac OLEG]

How old is the piano ? In my experience when they get soft Yamaha hammers get really soft. while they retain some density at heart, as they use small fiber felt the loss in tension is large.

Le mercredi 29 mai 2013 21:35:29 UTC+2, Wim Blees a écrit :

[tnr...@aol.com]

Wim

 so exactly how do you describe a tone that sound bad. Please use common words. Dull,muddy,

Dale

 

Kind of hard to describe, but let's call it listless. The tone doesn't jump out at you. It just sort of sits there.

 

I don't think it's a structural issue. This is a small piano, but usually on those kinds of instruments, the bass sucks. But the bass on this one is OK. It's the killer octaves that just don't excite me.

 

I did install a DC in the action cavity to try to dry out the hammers, but when I got there, it was unplugged. So left explicit instructions to keep the DC plugged in 24/7. So I'll see what it sounds like in November when I go back again.

 

Wim

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Erwin <da...@erwinspiano.com>
To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 5:02 am
Subject: Re: [ptech] Soft Yamaha hammers

[Isaac OLEG]

Ever had a look at the remaining crown in killer octave on Yamaha pianos ? at 30 40 years the soundboard is generally bowed the wrong direction and no expectation can be given to the tone, the zone that keep a little thickness get smaller and smalle. That is when hammers are densified on the sale floor.

[Isaac OLEG]

Sorry I dont really care saying so on a public forum , but above a certain age rares are the ones that are yet sounding full.

 

[Joseph Garrett]

Oh goody cooked action ala whoa! If the killer 8va is the problem, did you, perchance check to see if it has any crown or downbearing? Hmmmmmmmm? Hammers may not be the problem. Hopefully you put a humidistat in the cavity as well, so's the rod doesn't make the whole action loosey goosey! BTW, how many watts? This is getting a bit weird Wim.

Joe

 

Joe Garrett, R.P.T.

Captain of the Tool Police

Squares R I

http://gpianoworks.com/

 

----- Original Message -----

From:

[Isaac OLEG]

You told me the piano is only 6- 7 years old ,  ....So it was in high moisture conditions- 

Yamaha are usually resistant to that up to some point, thickening and having a more precise tone means checking tuning, regulation, voicing and again tuning, regulation, voicing larger steps first (sometime only providing some foundation to the key frame is enough) High moisture : everything have to be checked from scratch. wood bows and bend, felts grow and loss density, downbearing raise.. etc