Rock hard hammer voicing

[Regi Hedahl]

I'm visiting my parents in WA and they've got a Baldwin R 5'8” in length that they bought new back in 1988. It has withstood the high use and abuse extremely well but it was far from being a refined piano that I've gotten used to practicing on. The tone was brittle and it was nearly impossible to play softly and evenly. All you could get out of it was loud or louder. I gave it a fine regulation then did some major voicing on the hammers. These are the original hammers from 1988 and they're extremely hard. They're so hard that they resist needles! So my weapon of choice on these hammers was steam. The amount of steam I used on these hammers was more than 10 times what would have been needed for a cold pressed hammer without chemical hardeners. I also had to re-steam many times until I got the warmth I was looking for. The change was drastic but now it's definitely more pleasing to my ears and much easier to play. One thing about steaming hammers is they tend to revert part ways back to where they were so you've got to repeat the procedure several times until you get the results you're looking for. You also have to be extremely careful on a customers piano because you can go too far. I tend to make small changes on customers pianos but I'm not afraid to take it a lot farther on my own pianos. People get used to the sound of their piano so you have to take it slowly and let them adjust.

I also brought my recording equipment along so here is how this Baldwin sounds after I did all the work. It has never sounded like this.

http://picosong.com/td7Z

Question:
The dampers oink really badly on this piano especially when I half pedal. You can hear some of this in the recording. Time for new dampers or is there something I could try?

Regi Hedahl

[David Boyce]

Thank you for making the recording and sharing, Regi. How nicely you
play! The piano sounds most respectable.

On oinking dampers I seem to recall something in the Journal a few years
ago (or maybe it's in Steve Brady's "Under the Lid"), about using the
bent end of one of the simple one-straigh-and-one-bent-end capstan
regulating tools to rub the damper felts with the dampers in place, and
it softened the felt enough to stop the oinking. I've not tried it
myself, and it might only work on a very slight noise, not really bad stuff.

Best regards,

David B.

[Douglas Gregg]

Regi,

I have voiced a few of these Baldwins with Ballistol. It takes a lot-like a 6 oz can or 1 and 1/2 cans. The result is remarkable. No needling, no steaming and distortion of the strike point. No reversion to brightness a day or two later. 

For oinking I file them with an emery board. It cleans off the rust and hardness and the back side cleans the strings at the same time. If it is still not enough, I use Ballistol to soften the dampers. Aim the nozzle down between the dampers and let it soak in. That works very well. 

Good job so far. 

Doug Gregg

[Joseph Garrett]

Regi,
Although I have not tried this, I've heard that the key bushing elixir, (don't recall the name<G>), that Pianotek sells can be used on dampers with this problem. YMMV<G> I gotta get me some of that stuff to experiment with. Most key bushings I run into are beyond resizing, so haven't seen the need.
Best,
Joe


Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Joseph Garrett]

Regi,
Could not get it to download. :-(

[Ben Bradley]

I got it to download, it's a 11 megabyte file, but it was named
Beethoven (no file extension). I renamed it Beethoven.mp3 and it plays
fine.

[Regi Hedahl]

Joe,

There should be a little green arrow pointing to the right that shows up. Click on this arrow and the recording should start playing. If you're not seeing the arrow, then maybe your browser doesn't support this.

Regi

[Joseph Garrett]

Regi,
I tried it a second time anticipating the "little green arrow". It started on it's own w/o all that!
The piano is nice. You can still hear some of the hardness in the hammers, but it's a big improvement over most Baldwins encountered.<G>
Like most producton stuff, you need to put in the effort and the overall designed shines through.<G>
I didn't hear the damper "oink" you were referring to. I did hear one unison that was a bit of a slow "meow" though.<G> Or? Maybe that was that "oinker".
Best,

Joe


Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: Regi Hedahl <piano...@gmail.com>

[Regi Hedahl]

Joe,

The oink is most pronounced at 2:32. The only way that it shows up is when releasing the keys slowly or releasing the dampers slowly. Most pianists would probably never notice it.

Yes, this piano responded better than I thought to the hammer softening. I might have sacrificed a small amount of power but gained a whole bunch of dynamic range. Before, it was very difficult to get the melody to carry over the rest of the notes, piano was very monochromatic. There is still more hammer slapping noise from the high notes than what I would like. Lighter hammers would take care of this. Baldwin had to use up to 8 leads in each key and extremely rough hammer tails to make this all work. With a 9.5 mm keydip and heavy dense hammers, no wonder so many leads had to be used to keep the touchweight under control.

Regi

[Ron Nossaman]

On 7/29/2016 10:59 AM, Regi Hedahl wrote:
> Joe,
>
> The oink is most pronounced at 2:32. The only way that it shows up
> is when releasing the keys slowly or releasing the dampers slowly.
> Most pianists would probably never notice it.
>
> Yes, this piano responded better than I thought to the hammer
> softening. I might have sacrificed a small amount of power but
> gained a whole bunch of dynamic range. Before, it was very difficult
> to get the melody to carry over the rest of the notes, piano was very
> monochromatic. There is still more hammer slapping noise from the
> high notes than what I would like. Lighter hammers would take care
> of this.

You know, I never have determined just what "power" is in piano tone.
For some, it's painfully bright, particularly in the treble. For others.
it's a very LOUD bass, no matter what the rest of the piano sounds like.
Or it's loud and bright all over, but has no dynamic range, no
structure, no continuity across registers, no personality, no soul.
Where a nicely voiced piano with a rich tonal spectrum, beautifully
balanced across the compass, that carries just fine, and is quite loud
50' away, but doesn't fry the eyebrows off the pianist up close is said
to lack power. There aren't ANY standards of ANY sort. Voicing is graded
on the curve, depending on what the pianist or tech grew up with, and
their personal pain threshold.

Ron N

[Joseph Garrett]

Regi,
"lighter hammers"?!! A light/hard hammers will give you the same sound. The fundamental is best brought forward with a resilient/elastic hammer. Weight has little to do with tone. It does have a lot to do with touch however. And, then there is the perceptions that you get when the action geometry is wacked in some way that leads you to say these things about the "tone", when in fact it's a touch issue. At least that's been my experience.

Best,
Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com


-----Original Message-----
>From: Regi Hedahl <piano...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 29, 2016 8:59 AM
>To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Rock hard hammer voicing
>

>Joe,
>
>The oink is most pronounced at 2:32. The only way that it shows up is when releasing the keys slowly or releasing the dampers slowly. Most pianists would probably never notice it.
>

[Douglas Gregg]

Joe,

I think you are talking about VS Profelt. 

I got some and tried it. I was not particularly impressed, For dampers, Ballistol is a treat. Works any time the fingernail emery board fails to do the job. 

Doug Gregg

[Joseph Garrett]

Yeah Doug,
That's the stuff.<G> I don't use the stuff but may try it on something inconsequential in the future. <G> Personally, I'm not too impressed with Balistol either. Stinks for one thing. Tends to creep for another. Again, I'll try it on something inconsequential, when such comes on the radar. Not a big fan of lacquer either. Nor, of rock hard hammers.
 I'm in the process of "pre-voicing" a set of Renner Blue Points. Why am I using them? Because they are the closest to what was originally on this 1950's Hamburg Steinway. Once done with this set, I'll not do it again, but find a suitable substitute elsewere! If that many needle pokes are required to get something out of these "B-Bs" then a different hammer is needed imo!
Best,
Joe

[Douglas Gregg]

That is why I use Ronsen hammers. Put them in and you are done. They rarely need voicing. Give them a week to bed in and they are perfect. 

[Joseph Garrett]

Doug,
I've been using Ronsen Hammers longer than I can remember. However, when a client wants specifics, that's what we have to do. Or, refuse the job. Then the customer will go to a lesser quality tech that will do it and for less $$ too. This particular client is one I like and enjoy. I wouldn't do that to her.  She knows what the piano was and wants it back that way. After all a Hamburg is not too shabby imo. When it's right anyway.<G>