Danger, oil on strings
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David Kroenlein
May 8, 2015, 7:35:25 PM5/8/15
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Must be at a caberet!
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 8, 2015, at 18:32, 'Wim Blees' via pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Not only is it dangerous to put oil on strings, but apparently you're not supposed to lick the strings, either.
>
> Wim
>
> <IMG_0702.JPG>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 8, 2015, at 18:32, 'Wim Blees' via pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Not only is it dangerous to put oil on strings, but apparently you're not supposed to lick the strings, either.
>
> Wim
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
Paul McCloud
May 8, 2015, 9:37:59 PM5/8/15
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OMG! One of his pianos must have migrated to Hawaii!
He put oil on thousands of pianos in San Diego. Churches, schools, hotels, homes, retirement communities, you name it. He was expelled from the Guild after much angst.
Never thought to lick it off.
Paul McCloud
San Diego
[image/jpeg:IMG_0702.JPG]
Sent from my iPhone
He put oil on thousands of pianos in San Diego. Churches, schools, hotels, homes, retirement communities, you name it. He was expelled from the Guild after much angst.
Never thought to lick it off.
Paul McCloud
San Diego
Sent from my iPhone
Ron Nossaman
May 8, 2015, 9:56:57 PM5/8/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
On 5/8/2015 8:32 PM, Paul McCloud wrote:
> OMG! One of his pianos must have migrated to Hawaii! He put oil on
> thousands of pianos in San Diego. Churches, schools, hotels, homes,
> retirement communities, you name it. He was expelled from the Guild
> after much angst. Never thought to lick it off. Paul McCloud San
> Diego
Are we that pathetically desperate for a membership fee that booting
> OMG! One of his pianos must have migrated to Hawaii! He put oil on
> thousands of pianos in San Diego. Churches, schools, hotels, homes,
> retirement communities, you name it. He was expelled from the Guild
> after much angst. Never thought to lick it off. Paul McCloud San
> Diego
someone like this generates angst? That's truly sad.
Ron N
Wim Blees
May 8, 2015, 10:17:59 PM5/8/15
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Paul
Is he still tuning pianos, much less putting oil on strings?
This customer (a Navy seal) went from SD to Guam, and then to Hawaii. While he was in SD, a friend baby sat the piano while he was deployed, and had the piano tuned and "serviced" while he was away, as a thank you for his service.
The bass strings are dead. The treble strings sound muffled. Being in the service, he can't afford to have me put on new bass strings
Wim
Sent from my iPhone
Is he still tuning pianos, much less putting oil on strings?
This customer (a Navy seal) went from SD to Guam, and then to Hawaii. While he was in SD, a friend baby sat the piano while he was deployed, and had the piano tuned and "serviced" while he was away, as a thank you for his service.
The bass strings are dead. The treble strings sound muffled. Being in the service, he can't afford to have me put on new bass strings
Wim
Sent from my iPhone
Joseph Garrett
May 8, 2015, 11:38:04 PM5/8/15
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Wim,
Offer to clean the strings with a strong solvent. It might work. Alcohol, gasoline, dmso all come to mind.
Best,
Joe
Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com
Offer to clean the strings with a strong solvent. It might work. Alcohol, gasoline, dmso all come to mind.
Best,
Joe
Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com
Paul McCloud
May 9, 2015, 12:06:26 AM5/9/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
It's not just dead bass strings, I can assure you. The bridges have oil on them, the hammers have oil in them, and everywhere else the oil can travel. Even if you replaced the strings, the sound will be dead.
He's not around much anymore because I heard he has some health issues. I don't know details. He has a son in the business, but I've not run into him or know if he's still in San Diego. His fees were half of everyone else's, which got him favor from teachers. He would spend a lot of extra time doing little things to pianos, such as increasing letoff and adding pieces of lead to the ends of the keysticks. This was done so that the pianist wouldn't tear up the piano. The oil was to make sure no strings would break. He told me personally that breaking a string was the worst thing you could do to a piano. His card was always glued to the underside of the music desk and also inside the bench. You could tell he'd been there if the tuning pins looked extra glossy and sticky to the touch, and the hammers had black oil in the string grooves. Apparently he was formerly a machinist.
The local chapter president went on a mission to have him removed from our chapter, and it took more than a year to have him removed, with all the procedures of the Guild followed to the letter. He was so angry that he threatened a lawsuit, but never happened. That's what I meant by angst.
So, many thousands of pianos were thus lubricated, soaked, emulsified by a diligent individual in his quest to prolong the life of his client's pianos. All at half the cost of what others charged. Go figure.
He's not around much anymore because I heard he has some health issues. I don't know details. He has a son in the business, but I've not run into him or know if he's still in San Diego. His fees were half of everyone else's, which got him favor from teachers. He would spend a lot of extra time doing little things to pianos, such as increasing letoff and adding pieces of lead to the ends of the keysticks. This was done so that the pianist wouldn't tear up the piano. The oil was to make sure no strings would break. He told me personally that breaking a string was the worst thing you could do to a piano. His card was always glued to the underside of the music desk and also inside the bench. You could tell he'd been there if the tuning pins looked extra glossy and sticky to the touch, and the hammers had black oil in the string grooves. Apparently he was formerly a machinist.
The local chapter president went on a mission to have him removed from our chapter, and it took more than a year to have him removed, with all the procedures of the Guild followed to the letter. He was so angry that he threatened a lawsuit, but never happened. That's what I meant by angst.
So, many thousands of pianos were thus lubricated, soaked, emulsified by a diligent individual in his quest to prolong the life of his client's pianos. All at half the cost of what others charged. Go figure.
piano+david
May 9, 2015, 2:32:35 AM5/9/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
he confined the WD40 to the tuning pins though. Compare pinblocks of
two 1911 Bechstein Model 10 pianos here:
http://www.davidboyce.co.uk/no-wd40-please.php
Best regards,
David.
Larry Fisher RPT
May 9, 2015, 9:13:26 AM5/9/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
DMSO ....... I've heard that stuff enables druggies to take drugs through the skin hence it was outlawed in a few states. Anything you mix with it passes directly through the skin and into the bloodstream by simply rubbing on the skin. Now that I think about it a bit, lacquer thinner probably does the same thing.
Do you suppose that's the SS number in the sticker?? Someone went through some trouble to make that sticker ....... by hand it looks like.
As for fixing such a piano ....... new pin block and strings at a minimum along with the obvious wipe down of everything. Short of that, I'd expect it's a time bomb. Sad. Might as well dip the whole piano in a hot tub.
Personal belongings take a beating when you go into the service. I've heard countless stories.
Lar
Do you suppose that's the SS number in the sticker?? Someone went through some trouble to make that sticker ....... by hand it looks like.
As for fixing such a piano ....... new pin block and strings at a minimum along with the obvious wipe down of everything. Short of that, I'd expect it's a time bomb. Sad. Might as well dip the whole piano in a hot tub.
Personal belongings take a beating when you go into the service. I've heard countless stories.
Lar
Larry Fisher RPT
May 9, 2015, 9:17:44 AM5/9/15
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OOPS, that's a phone number ........ hand crafted additions to the pre-printed sticker. I'm still dealing with oil in my eyes I guess this AM. blink, blink. Danged floaters.
Douglas Gregg
May 9, 2015, 10:26:38 AM5/9/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
Paul, sorry, the question of oiled strings was from Wim.
Doug Gregg
Doug Gregg
Paul McCloud
May 9, 2015, 11:02:27 AM5/9/15
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The sticker says "Donald Rokos". That's who we're talking about, and who I commented on. Though I believe what he has done is wrong in applying oil to pianos, I harbor no ill feelings towards the man. I'm sure in his mind that he was doing good work. He was proud of it. At one Guild meeting, he showed me how he was using Tribotech, the latest oil additive. He would put it on the bridge pins and bearing points. I think he also said he'd gotten the idea from some prominent technicians who put a little lubricant on the pins of the bass bearing bar and on the pressure bar to avoid string breakage. He just took the idea too far.
Paul McCloud
San Diego
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Gregg" <class...@gmail.com>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2015 7:26:37 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Danger, oil on strings
San Diego
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Gregg" <class...@gmail.com>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2015 7:26:37 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Danger, oil on strings
Ron Nossaman
May 9, 2015, 11:29:31 AM5/9/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
On 5/9/2015 9:57 AM, Paul McCloud wrote:
> The sticker says "Donald Rokos". That's who we're talking about, and
> who I commented on. Though I believe what he has done is wrong in
> applying oil to pianos, I harbor no ill feelings towards the man.
> I'm sure in his mind that he was doing good work. He was proud of
> it. At one Guild meeting, he showed me how he was using Tribotech,
> the latest oil additive. He would put it on the bridge pins and
> bearing points. I think he also said he'd gotten the idea from some
> prominent technicians who put a little lubricant on the pins of the
> bass bearing bar and on the pressure bar to avoid string breakage.
> He just took the idea too far. Paul McCloud San Diego
It depends entirely on where you are in the equation. If I were one of
> The sticker says "Donald Rokos". That's who we're talking about, and
> who I commented on. Though I believe what he has done is wrong in
> applying oil to pianos, I harbor no ill feelings towards the man.
> I'm sure in his mind that he was doing good work. He was proud of
> it. At one Guild meeting, he showed me how he was using Tribotech,
> the latest oil additive. He would put it on the bridge pins and
> bearing points. I think he also said he'd gotten the idea from some
> prominent technicians who put a little lubricant on the pins of the
> bass bearing bar and on the pressure bar to avoid string breakage.
> He just took the idea too far. Paul McCloud San Diego
the many owners of a piano destroyed by these good intentions, I would
find it very difficult to be philosophical about his intentions. There
are medical doctors with similarly good intentions, doing damage through
ignorance too. And plenty of other service folks that don't even mean
well at all. Wanted: a way to make destructive practices obvious to the
practitioner, and substitute more constructive methods. There's no real
reason why everyone can't win.
Ron N
Paul McCloud
May 9, 2015, 12:31:47 PM5/9/15
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I think he was sued at one point. There was a retirement community that had a Petrof or Schimmel that he'd worked on. It had no tone. We had a special chapter meeting over there to see what he had done. Short of new bridges, restringing, new hammers and a lot of other stuff, there was nothing that could be done. It was less than 5 years old. Because of the religious affiliation with the community, they declined to sue. On the basis of that piano and its condition, we had him removed from the Guild.
In our shop at the store was an old pinblock. Taped to that block was a poem written by the owner of the Steinway that it came out of. I'm sorry I didn't copy that poem, "Ode to the Piano Tuner" After a while, the oil that had saturated the block also seeped into the paper the poem was written on.
In our shop at the store was an old pinblock. Taped to that block was a poem written by the owner of the Steinway that it came out of. I'm sorry I didn't copy that poem, "Ode to the Piano Tuner" After a while, the oil that had saturated the block also seeped into the paper the poem was written on.
Paul McCloud
San Diego
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Nossaman" <rnos...@cox.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2015 8:29:53 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Danger, oil on strings
San Diego
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Nossaman" <rnos...@cox.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2015 8:29:53 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Danger, oil on strings
Ron Nossaman
May 9, 2015, 12:38:50 PM5/9/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
On 5/9/2015 11:26 AM, Paul McCloud wrote:
> I think he was sued at one point. There was a retirement community
> that had a Petrof or Schimmel that he'd worked on. It had no tone.
> We had a special chapter meeting over there to see what he had done.
> Short of new bridges, restringing, new hammers and a lot of other
> stuff, there was nothing that could be done. It was less than 5
> years old. Because of the religious affiliation with the community,
> they declined to sue. On the basis of that piano and its condition,
> we had him removed from the Guild. In our shop at the store was an
> old pinblock. Taped to that block was a poem written by the owner of
> the Steinway that it came out of. I'm sorry I didn't copy that poem,
> "Ode to the Piano Tuner" After a while, the oil that had saturated
> the block also seeped into the paper the poem was written on.
Did the oil smell of snake?
> I think he was sued at one point. There was a retirement community
> that had a Petrof or Schimmel that he'd worked on. It had no tone.
> We had a special chapter meeting over there to see what he had done.
> Short of new bridges, restringing, new hammers and a lot of other
> stuff, there was nothing that could be done. It was less than 5
> years old. Because of the religious affiliation with the community,
> they declined to sue. On the basis of that piano and its condition,
> we had him removed from the Guild. In our shop at the store was an
> old pinblock. Taped to that block was a poem written by the owner of
> the Steinway that it came out of. I'm sorry I didn't copy that poem,
> "Ode to the Piano Tuner" After a while, the oil that had saturated
> the block also seeped into the paper the poem was written on.
Ron N
Paul McCloud
May 9, 2015, 12:59:55 PM5/9/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
So THAT'S what it was! It's hard to tell the fossilized from the fresh stuff..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Nossaman" <rnos...@cox.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2015 9:39:12 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Danger, oil on strings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Nossaman" <rnos...@cox.net>
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2015 9:39:12 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Danger, oil on strings
Ron Nossaman
May 9, 2015, 1:03:26 PM5/9/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
On 5/9/2015 11:54 AM, Paul McCloud wrote:
> So THAT'S what it was! It's hard to tell the fossilized from the fresh stuff..
I've played with a lot of fine snakes, and not a single one ever squeaked.
> So THAT'S what it was! It's hard to tell the fossilized from the fresh stuff..
Ron N
Blaine Hebert
May 10, 2015, 2:20:47 PM5/10/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
I don't find anything about DMSO being illegal, though it is widely used by quacks for treatment of many conditions and probably needs at least some consideration. DMSO is a very widely used chemical (it can be used to remove PVA glues such as Elmers and Titebond).
Blaine Hebert
Blaine Hebert
On Saturday, May 9, 2015 at 6:13:26 AM UTC-7, Larry Fisher RPT wrote:
Ron Nossaman
May 10, 2015, 2:57:14 PM5/10/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
On 5/10/2015 1:20 PM, Blaine Hebert wrote:
> I don't find anything about DMSO being illegal, though it is widely used
> by quacks for treatment of many conditions and probably needs at least
> some consideration.
No, it's not illegal, nor is it quackery. It's not a miracle cure-all,
> I don't find anything about DMSO being illegal, though it is widely used
> by quacks for treatment of many conditions and probably needs at least
> some consideration.
but is a quite effective anti inflammatory for abused joints and a good
subcutaneous delivery system for some drugs. Just wash up thoroughly
before using it, and don't indiscriminately slop it everywhere. If
aspirin had just been discovered yesterday, it would be treated much
like DMSO is today. Relieves headaches? Joint pain? Reduces fevers?
Prevents heart attacks? Nonsense! That's obviously a lie from a bunch of
quacks! Ban aspirin!
> DMSO is a very widely used chemical (it can be used
> to remove PVA glues such as Elmers and Titebond).
will take contaminants with it into the bloodstream. It's potentially
dangerous and must be either used intelligently, or avoided altogether.
Ron N
Douglas Gregg
May 10, 2015, 7:55:10 PM5/10/15
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Blaine,
If you are using DMSO to remove glues, and not using heavy butyl
rubber gloves, you are delivering that glue into your blood stream.
If you don't believe me, put a little DMSO on your toe and see how
long it takes before you smell onions on your breath. That is the DMSO
coming out of your lungs. As a veterinarian who has seen some
disastrous misuse of DMSO, I am simply offering a warning that almost
anything that DMSO is mixes with and gets on you, is going to go into
your bloodstream.
The pharmaceutical industry was very interested in compounding
medicines with DMSO to be used topically early on in the 60's, but
they didn't want to take the risk of causing severe harm and I believe
the FDA banned its use as a drug or their lawyers warned them against
it as a drug.
If you read the label on DMSO at the farm stores you will see that
there are a lot of disclaimers and warnings and no suggestion of its
use medically. They are covering their tails knowing full well that
people will be using it, at least on their horses.
As I said before, I have it and use it for selected medical purposes,
off label, and never as a general solvent. However, I am very careful
what I mix it with and don't give it to others to use, and don't
prescribe its use. It is way too dangerous.
What do you think would happen if you are removing glue from an action
that has a little green powder on it. It might be green felt lint or
that powder might be arsenic sprinkled there to kill moths 50 years
ago. It might kill you.
Douglas Gregg DVM, PhD
If you are using DMSO to remove glues, and not using heavy butyl
rubber gloves, you are delivering that glue into your blood stream.
If you don't believe me, put a little DMSO on your toe and see how
long it takes before you smell onions on your breath. That is the DMSO
coming out of your lungs. As a veterinarian who has seen some
disastrous misuse of DMSO, I am simply offering a warning that almost
anything that DMSO is mixes with and gets on you, is going to go into
your bloodstream.
The pharmaceutical industry was very interested in compounding
medicines with DMSO to be used topically early on in the 60's, but
they didn't want to take the risk of causing severe harm and I believe
the FDA banned its use as a drug or their lawyers warned them against
it as a drug.
If you read the label on DMSO at the farm stores you will see that
there are a lot of disclaimers and warnings and no suggestion of its
use medically. They are covering their tails knowing full well that
people will be using it, at least on their horses.
As I said before, I have it and use it for selected medical purposes,
off label, and never as a general solvent. However, I am very careful
what I mix it with and don't give it to others to use, and don't
prescribe its use. It is way too dangerous.
What do you think would happen if you are removing glue from an action
that has a little green powder on it. It might be green felt lint or
that powder might be arsenic sprinkled there to kill moths 50 years
ago. It might kill you.
Douglas Gregg DVM, PhD
Joseph Garrett
May 10, 2015, 8:23:40 PM5/10/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
At this point I'm sorry I even mentioned it. I did so, more in a kidding manner than to encourage it's use. It is an insidious compound that IS dangerous, as you've pointed out.
I retract the idea of it's use!
I retract the idea of it's use!
>From: Douglas Gregg <class...@gmail.com>
>Sent: May 10, 2015 4:55 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Danger, oil on strings
>
>Sent: May 10, 2015 4:55 PM
>To: pian...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Danger, oil on strings
>
Blaine Hebert
May 11, 2015, 12:59:02 AM5/11/15
to pian...@googlegroups.com
And that is why we have this forum.
I have never used DMSO, but have considered using it for glue removal. My wife uses it in her biomedical research.
As for the green felt, at least cupric arsenate is obvious, there was also pure arsenic used as a moth proofing in the past. Who would know?
Having had a grandfather who was enthusiastic with Paris green I am well aware of the issue.
Blaine Hebert
I have never used DMSO, but have considered using it for glue removal. My wife uses it in her biomedical research.
As for the green felt, at least cupric arsenate is obvious, there was also pure arsenic used as a moth proofing in the past. Who would know?
Having had a grandfather who was enthusiastic with Paris green I am well aware of the issue.
Blaine Hebert
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