Warped, Bent, Twisted Key

[Terry Farrell]

I’ve seen a few warped keys over the years, but never one like this! It is bent where the top is a bit concave rather than flat (excluding key button and keytop). But it is also twisted - the front, relative to the rear, has twisted clockwise.

The complaint was that the key level (on the one D key) was high. I removed all the paper punching from the center rail pin on that key leaving only the thin felt punching - but it is still high.

Anyone have any experience unbending and untwisting a key like this? This key is on a “Baldwin” fetal grand. Any Wurlitzer or Acrosonic spinet puts this thing to shame…..  :-(

Thanks for any suggestions (constructive suggestions that is…..). The guy who plays this piano loves it. Go figger.

Terry Farrell

[Allied PianoCraft]

I had that with a Baldwin L. Shaved, planed, band sawed, etc. Got the key level, dampers, and rubbing keys all fixed. I got a call back from the customer about two months later. All screwed up again!!!! Stay clear!!!!

Al -

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[Joseph Garrett]

Terry,

You did not say wether the note is funtioning adequately. If it is, then raise the rest of the keys around it to make it "level" with it's neighbors. Reset the dip of the others for adequate aftertouch and go with that. Kind of like voicing notes UP when a note can't be voiced DOWN to maintain balance.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Farrell
Sent: Aug 24, 2018 6:42 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [pianotech] Warped, Bent, Twisted Key

I’ve seen a few warped keys over the years, but never one like this! It is bent where the top is a bit concave rather than flat (excluding key button and keytop). But it is also twisted - the front, relative to the rear, has twisted clockwise.

The complaint was that the key level (on the one D key) was high. I removed all the paper punching from the center rail pin on that key leaving only the thin felt punching - but it is still high.

Anyone have any experience unbending and untwisting a key like this? This key is on a “Baldwin” fetal grand. Any Wurlitzer or Acrosonic spinet puts this thing to shame…..  :-(

Thanks for any suggestions (constructive suggestions that is…..). The guy who plays this piano loves it. Go figger.

Terry Farrell

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Joseph Garrett]

Al,
You are so correct! Reactive wood will continue to be reactive no matter what you do. The problem is the crappy wood that some companies use to make keys. No longer do they use good Oregon Sugar Pine, just some asian "similar" wood that will never be right. Sigh.
Best,
Joe

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

-----Original Message-----
>From: Allied PianoCraft <alliedpi...@outlook.com>
>Sent: Aug 24, 2018 6:54 AM
>To: "pian...@googlegroups.com" <pian...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [pianotech] Warped, Bent, Twisted Key
>
>I had that with a Baldwin L. Shaved, planed, band sawed, etc. Got the key level, dampers, and rubbing keys all fixed. I got a call back from the customer about two months later. All screwed up again!!!! Stay clear!!!!
>
>Al -
>
>
>On Aug 24, 2018, at 9:42 AM, Terry Farrell <farrellpi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>I’ve seen a few warped keys over the years, but never one like this! It is bent where the top is a bit concave rather than flat (excluding key button and keytop). But it is also twisted - the front, relative to the rear, has twisted clockwise.
>
>The complaint was that the key level (on the one D key) was high. I removed all the paper punching from the center rail pin on that key leaving only the thin felt punching - but it is still high.
>
>Anyone have any experience unbending and untwisting a key like this? This key is on a “Baldwin” fetal grand. Any Wurlitzer or Acrosonic spinet puts this thing to shame….. :-(
>
>Thanks for any suggestions (constructive suggestions that is…..). The guy who plays this piano loves it. Go figger.
>
>Terry Farrell
>

[Joseph Garrett]

Terry,

Or,.....make a new key. Easy peasy for a woodworker type guy like you.<G> (I do it a lot.)

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Farrell
Sent: Aug 24, 2018 6:42 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [pianotech] Warped, Bent, Twisted Key

I’ve seen a few warped keys over the years, but never one like this! It is bent where the top is a bit concave rather than flat (excluding key button and keytop). But it is also twisted - the front, relative to the rear, has twisted clockwise.

The complaint was that the key level (on the one D key) was high. I removed all the paper punching from the center rail pin on that key leaving only the thin felt punching - but it is still high.

Anyone have any experience unbending and untwisting a key like this? This key is on a “Baldwin” fetal grand. Any Wurlitzer or Acrosonic spinet puts this thing to shame…..  :-(

Thanks for any suggestions (constructive suggestions that is…..). The guy who plays this piano loves it. Go figger.

Terry Farrell

[Allied PianoCraft]

By the way, it was not a single key, it was the entire set :(

Al -

[John Formsma]

 Have you read Ron Nossaman‘s article on straightening warped keys? I can send it to you if you don’t already have it  

JF

--

John Formsma, RPT

New Albany, MS

[Terry Farrell]

Hi Joe. The note does function as well as the others. Difficult to make it “level” with neighbors because it is not only unlevel, but the keytop is at a different angle than its neighbors - i.e. not in a parallel plane.

I guess one other thing I could do is just remove the felt punching and replace it with whatever paper punchings might be needed to get it more-or-less level with neighbors. And then see if it makes any noise. I’d hate to raise them all!

Terry

[Terry Farrell]

Yup, should have used gooder Florida Southern Yellow Pine!

Terry Farrell

[Douglas Gregg]

Terry,

All previous comments are correct. And don't even think about steaming it. It will just go back. If the key is more or less stable as it is. I would consider taking off the keycap, shaving the key level and lower with the others and put the keycap back on.  Don't offer a guarantee. Advise that it might change with changing humidity but it will likely be close enough to be OK. 

Doug Gregg

[Terry Farrell]

I thought Ron had written something about that. I was thinking it was a post to this list. Yeah, if you have the article that you could email me, that would be great! Thanks so much!!

Terry Farrell

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--

[Don]

Why not just post it to the list? I'd love to read it.

Regards,
Don Rose
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
mailto:pian...@yahoo.com http://www.donrose.ca/
Box 37181, Regina, SK S4S 7K4
306-539-0716

[Geoff Sykes]

I agree with Don. I would like to read it, too. 

[Randy Mangus]

Once you get it into a fairly satisfactory position you might consider saturating it with thin super glue to help it fight the effects of humidity changes. 

Randy Mangus, RPT

Sent from my iPhone

[John Formsma]

Yep, even better to post it to the list, so here it is as a PDF.

John Formsma, RPT

New Albany, MS

[Joseph Garrett]

Randy,

Any attempt at calming "stressed wood" is an exercise in futility. I know this from personal experience and from the teachings of my H.S. Shop teacher regarding my project involving Tennessee Cedar.<G>

The best solution is to replace it.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Randy Mangus' via pianotech
Sent: Aug 24, 2018 7:35 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Warped, Bent, Twisted Key

Once you get it into a fairly satisfactory position you might consider saturating it with thin super glue to help it fight the effects of humidity changes. 

Randy Mangus, RPT

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 24, 2018, at 4:51 PM, Douglas Gregg <class...@gmail.com> wrote:

Terry,

All previous comments are correct. And don't even think about steaming it. It will just go back. If the key is more or less stable as it is. I would consider taking off the keycap, shaving the key level and lower with the others and put the keycap back on.  Don't offer a guarantee. Advise that it might change with changing humidity but it will likely be close enough to be OK. 

Doug Gregg

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 3:19 PM Terry Farrell <farrellpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yup, should have used gooder Florida Southern Yellow Pine!

Terry Farrell

> On Aug 24, 2018, at 10:32 AM, Joseph Garrett <joega...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Al,
> You are so correct! Reactive wood will continue to be reactive no matter what you do. The problem is the crappy wood that some companies use to make keys. No longer do they use good Oregon Sugar Pine, just some asian "similar" wood that will never be right. Sigh.
> Best,
> Joe
>
>
> Captain of the Tool Police
> Squares R I
> gpianoworks.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Allied PianoCraft <alliedpi...@outlook.com>
>> Sent: Aug 24, 2018 6:54 AM
>> To: "pian...@googlegroups.com" <pian...@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Warped, Bent, Twisted Key
>>
>> I had that with a Baldwin L. Shaved, planed, band sawed, etc. Got the key level, dampers, and rubbing keys all fixed. I got a call back from the customer about two months later. All screwed up again!!!! Stay clear!!!!
>>
>> Al -
>>
>>

>> On Aug 24, 2018, at 9:42 AM, Terry Farrell <farrellpi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I’ve seen a few warped keys over the years, but never one like this! It is bent where the top is a bit concave rather than flat (excluding key button and keytop). But it is also twisted - the front, relative to the rear, has twisted clockwise.
>>
>> The complaint was that the key level (on the one D key) was high. I removed all the paper punching from the center rail pin on that key leaving only the thin felt punching - but it is still high.
>>
>> Anyone have any experience unbending and untwisting a key like this? This key is on a “Baldwin” fetal grand. Any Wurlitzer or Acrosonic spinet puts this thing to shame…..  :-(
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions (constructive suggestions that is…..). The guy who plays this piano loves it. Go figger.
>>
>> Terry Farrell
>>
>> <IMG_2860.jpeg>
>>
>> <IMG_2863.jpeg>
>>
>> <IMG_2866.jpeg>
>>
>> <IMG_2867.jpeg>
>>
>> <IMG_2868.jpeg>

[Joseph Garrett]

John,

As was Nossaman's way, the article is short and direct. Well worth anyone's time to read. (I saved it for future reference.)

Thank you.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: John Formsma
Sent: Aug 25, 2018 5:13 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Warped, Bent, Twisted Key

Yep, even better to post it to the list, so here it is as a PDF.

John Formsma, RPT

New Albany, MS

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 8:39 PM 'Don' via pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Why not just post it to the list? I'd love to read it.

Regards,
Don Rose
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat
mailto:pian...@yahoo.com http://www.donrose.ca/
Box 37181, Regina, SK S4S 7K4
306-539-0716

On Friday, August 24, 2018, 7:28:57 p.m. CST, Terry Farrell <farrellpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I thought Ron had written something about that. I was thinking it was a post to this list. Yeah, if you have the article that you could email me, that would be great! Thanks so much!!

Terry Farrell

On Aug 24, 2018, at 3:10 PM, John Formsma <for...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Have you read Ron Nossaman‘s article on straightening warped keys? I can send it to you if you don’t already have it  

JF

On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 08:42 Terry Farrell <farrellpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ve seen a few warped keys over the years, but never one like this! It is bent where the top is a bit concave rather than flat (excluding key button and keytop). But it is also twisted - the front, relative to the rear, has twisted clockwise.

The complaint was that the key level (on the one D key) was high. I removed all the paper punching from the center rail pin on that key leaving only the thin felt punching - but it is still high.

Anyone have any experience unbending and untwisting a key like this? This key is on a “Baldwin” fetal grand. Any Wurlitzer or Acrosonic spinet puts this thing to shame…..  :-(

Thanks for any suggestions (constructive suggestions that is…..). The guy who plays this piano loves it. Go figger.

Terry Farrell

<IMG_2860.jpeg>

<IMG_2863.jpeg>

<IMG_2866.jpeg>

<IMG_2867.jpeg>

<IMG_2868.jpeg>

--

John Formsma, RPT

New Albany, MS

[David Boyce]

John, thank you for posting this to the List.  I remember reading it years ago when Ron originally posted it, and I think I saved it at the time but it got lost when a laptop died.  It's good to see it again! And a nice reminder of Ron.

Best regards,

David.

[John Formsma]

You're quite welcome. 

Yeah...I miss Ron N's posts. The good stuff anyway. There were some seeds to spit out, but he was a brilliant guy and knew so much about everything  (not just pianos).

John Formsma, RPT

New Albany, MS